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Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!


KHCast

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It's the color grading and lighting being more realistic. It's subtle, I know, but the original green hill just pops so much more to me.

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My opinions for what it's worth, popular or not:

  1. I enjoyed Unleash's Warehog segments, even though it was pretty ridiculous and largely unexplained. I had fun with it and that's all that counts right? And hey, we got the excellent formula that "tries" to be the backbone of modern Sonic then :)
  2. I hate Knuckles being portrayed as an idiot. He's naive, as someone who doesn't know much outside the very small world of Angel island should be. I don't like him being played up as a vehicle to make Sonic look good. His reveal back in the day was epic and as cool as Sonic was. Whatever happened to that?
  3. I'm middle ground with those that say SA1 - Heroes were good or bad games, though I dare not say that any of them are deserving of their extremes in either direction. So yeah, I guess that just makes me a filthy neutral lmao. Nothing wrong with that.
  4. Sonic needs no more friends (lol). How about we further refine the actual (and pretty vast) cast of what we have now in games (perhaps in some way returning to multi character, multi full campaign adventures based on the working formula similar to Sonic 3K). These characters can have their own deeper motivations that can enhance the story too you know.
  5. I enjoyed Jim Cumming's Robotnik and wouldn't mind seeing a similar character style and portrayal in one of the games, either as a Chaos infused character of sorts, alternate ego/dimension, or something.

That's me. Take it or leave it ^_^

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7 minutes ago, XTREEMMAK said:

His reveal back in the day was epic and as cool as Sonic was. Whatever happened to that?

Shadow?

7 minutes ago, XTREEMMAK said:
  1. Sonic needs no more friends (lol). How about we further refine the actual (and pretty vast) cast of what we have now in games (perhaps in some way returning to multi character, multi full campaign adventures based on the working formula similar to Sonic 3K). These characters can have their own deeper motivations that can enhance the story too you know.

I can agree to that.

Make new characters as necessary for plot or setting, but try using his friends and rivals more often.

7 minutes ago, XTREEMMAK said:
  1. I enjoyed Jim Cumming's Robotnik and wouldn't mind seeing a similar character style and portrayal in one of the games, either as a Chaos infused character of sorts, alternate ego/dimension, or something.

As in an Eggman or just another villain like that in general?

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15 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Shadow?

I can agree to that.

Make new characters as necessary for plot or setting, but try using his friends and rivals more often.

As in an Eggman or just another villain like that in general?

I think Shadow is a different kind of appeal and interest to a different era of Sonic Fans. He's cool in his own right, but no reason why Knuckles aka OG Rival and "opposite color wheel" buddy couldn't maintain his position in his own right. I say, they tried in some aspect, but then again, possibly the game design limited that effort.

As far as Jim Cummings, either as an Eggman or as a semi major antagonist (aka the true threat aka like Chaos).

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1 hour ago, XTREEMMAK said:

I think Shadow is a different kind of appeal and interest to a different era of Sonic Fans. He's cool in his own right, but no reason why Knuckles aka OG Rival and "opposite color wheel" buddy couldn't maintain his position in his own right. I say, they tried in some aspect, but then again, possibly the game design limited that effort.

As far as Jim Cummings, either as an Eggman or as a semi major antagonist (aka the true threat aka like Chaos).

I think, at least narratively the issue with Knuckles being a rival still is that his and sonic's beefs lay purely in misunderstanding. And that after knuckles understands you, he's kind of down. To the point of being gullible. There's this phrase I think it goes, sonic is the wind and knuckles is a mountain.  And while yes it speaks to personality differences, they are just friendly. They just end up being friends and the sonic knuckles tails friendship works for a lot of people. They are three weird brothers going on an adventure. I guess he could just keep getting tricked, but at some point that just becomes annoying I feel?

I think again this is just narrative why shadow from a writing standpoint may work a bit better is that the core of that beef is that both parties don't like each other. No misunderstandings , they just don't vibe with eachother. And at least from writing and like marketing perspective , that's easier to do both. I think its why knuckles has become sort of a " Ninja turtle " like he's apart of the sonic squad. While shadow has still remained sort of a rogue force.

I don't think its purely a gameplay thing as to why no rivalry is occurring with knuckles and sonic I also think its just how they want to market the series these days.

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1 hour ago, XTREEMMAK said:

I think Shadow is a different kind of appeal and interest to a different era of Sonic Fans.

True, but it is noticeable that Knuckles started to get demoted almost immediately afterward Shadow's introduction. 

Same can probably be said for Amy and Blaze.

1 hour ago, XTREEMMAK said:

He's cool in his own right, but no reason why Knuckles aka OG Rival and "opposite color wheel" buddy couldn't maintain his position in his own right. 

True.

Btw, Red isn't actually the opposite of blue; Yellow/Orange is. Red itself has Cyan or Green as it's opposites. 

You might be thinking more about warm and cool colors.

1 hour ago, XTREEMMAK said:

As far as Jim Cummings, either as an Eggman or as a semi major antagonist (aka the true threat aka like Chaos).

Oh, you were talking about Jim Cummings! My mistake.

14 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I think, at least narratively the issue with Knuckles being a rival still is that his and sonic's beefs lay purely in misunderstanding. And that after knuckles understands you, he's kind of down. To the point of being gullible. There's this phrase I think it goes, sonic is the wind and knuckles is a mountain.  And while yes it speaks to personality differences, they are just friendly. They just end up being friends and the sonic knuckles tails friendship works for a lot of people. They are three weird brothers going on an adventure. I guess he could just keep getting tricked, but at some point that just becomes annoying I feel?

There were also lifestyle/approach differences that was meant to influence his distrust as well, but i suppose.

The getting tricked thing was unfortunately just the way they kept using to make it happen.

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29 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

There were also lifestyle/approach differences that was meant to influence his distrust as well, but i suppose.

The getting tricked thing was unfortunately just the way they kept using to make it happen.

I would make the argument lifestyle differences didn't matter. Knuckles is a character who if you just ask him for help... he will just help you. I mean yes a lot of sonic characters will, even eggman for a price. But I this guy had been living on an island probably by himself for a decade plus just meets some scientist and instantly trusts him. And even after finding out he's been tricked showed willingness to work with people and engage with them. Sonic and Knuckles both are live and live. Knuckles is just " Live and let live off my island " so I feel like there just isn't enough there. There is nothing really inherently about them as people that would require that sort of disdain. Knuckles in like mania adventures is more aggressive, but even then he's just really protective of the M.E more than anything else.

They are just like as they stand as of currently, conducive to being friendly. To make that work you have to actually add values to his character that matter to the story that sonic is against and that regularly come up. But if the value is " Get off my lawn " then... i mean , who gives a shit really about that beef ya know? Especially if you aren't making stories about angel island or the M.E anymore, which is another problem. And if you changed knuckles's character like that. Would people still like him?

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Knuckles is kind of fundamentally designed to be a foil for Sonic, so I think its underselling him a bit to just say he doesn't work because Shadow exists.

Even aside from color schemes and movesets; Sonic is a laidback drifter, and Knuckles is uptight and stationary. He's a different type of foil than Shadow and I don't think the latter existing makes it redundant at all.

 

That said, I'd probably prefer to focus on Knuckles' guardian duties again to give some type of relevance.

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1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

Knuckles is kind of fundamentally designed to be a foil for Sonic, so I think its underselling him a bit to just say he doesn't work because Shadow exists.

Even aside from color schemes and movesets; Sonic is a laidback drifter, and Knuckles is uptight and stationary. He's a different type of foil than Shadow and I don't think the latter existing makes it redundant at all.

 

That said, I'd probably prefer to focus on Knuckles' guardian duties again to give some type of relevance.

I actually or rather I would actually undersell shadow too. I was giving an example of an easier to write scenario I also dont think shadow is a good rival either. While shadow and sonic dont really hate each other outside of the occasional ideological difference when written well one cant really be fussed with the other to be a rival really. I dont think sonic has ANY good rivals besides jet.

I also think that's why they are interesting characters and jet isnt.  All the other rivals interesting things to do that grow the world and make it feel lived in. And cant really be fussed with sonic or are just friends with him. Or both in the case of knuckles. Jet's beef isnt like the others where it's some large misunderstanding or revenge or saving the future , hes just cocky. That's it, he wants to be the coolest and the fastest and is very competitive. And that's more squarely I feel in rival territory than most other characters. Shadows kinda being written like this now and a bunch of people hate it. And I kinda thinks that speaks to how a lot of people view shadow but the other "rivals" too. The grew and moved on. And to bring them back there might feel like a regression.

So I'm not underselling knuckles. I'm underselling ever rival that isnt jet because they are good and jet sucks

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8 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I actually or rather I would actually undersell shadow too. I was giving an example of an easier to write scenario I also dont think shadow is a good rival either. While shadow and sonic dont really hate each other outside of the occasional ideological difference when written well one cant really be fussed with the other to be a rival really. I dont think sonic has ANY good rivals besides jet.

I also think that's why they are interesting characters and jet isnt.  All the other rivals interesting things to do that grow the world and make it feel lived in. And cant really be fussed with sonic or are just friends with him. Or both in the case of knuckles. Jet's beef isnt like the others where it's some large misunderstanding or revenge or saving the future , hes just cocky. That's it, he wants to be the coolest and the fastest and is very competitive. And that's more squarely I feel in rival territory than most other characters. Shadows kinda being written like this now and a bunch of people hate it. And I kinda thinks that speaks to how a lot of people view shadow but the other "rivals" too. The grew and moved on. And to bring them back there might feel like a regression.

So I'm not underselling knuckles. I'm underselling ever rival that isnt jet because they are good and jet sucks

Jet is even worse than Infinite. He’s better than Zavok, though. Zavok’s just weird and petty. 

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48 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I actually or rather I would actually undersell shadow too. I was giving an example of an easier to write scenario I also dont think shadow is a good rival either. While shadow and sonic dont really hate each other outside of the occasional ideological difference when written well one cant really be fussed with the other to be a rival really. I dont think sonic has ANY good rivals besides jet.

I also think that's why they are interesting characters and jet isnt.  All the other rivals interesting things to do that grow the world and make it feel lived in. And cant really be fussed with sonic or are just friends with him. Or both in the case of knuckles. Jet's beef isnt like the others where it's some large misunderstanding or revenge or saving the future , hes just cocky. That's it, he wants to be the coolest and the fastest and is very competitive. And that's more squarely I feel in rival territory than most other characters. Shadows kinda being written like this now and a bunch of people hate it. And I kinda thinks that speaks to how a lot of people view shadow but the other "rivals" too. The grew and moved on. And to bring them back there might feel like a regression.

So I'm not underselling knuckles. I'm underselling ever rival that isnt jet because they are good and jet sucks

Naw, I definitely feel like you're underselling them.

Regardless of your own personal feelings on the matter, people like these characters because they aren't subservient to Sonic and have traits that are directly opposed to him, which makes for an interesting character dynamic.

The reason people hate Shadow's current character isn't because he fights Sonic, but because his character is just inherently less interesting than he was before regardless.

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40 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Jet is even worse than Infinite. He’s better than Zavok, though. Zavok’s just weird and petty. 

To be fair, Zavok is more mortal enemy on the side and Infinite is a would be ultimate villain.

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1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

Naw, I definitely feel like you're underselling them.

Regardless of your own personal feelings on the matter, people like these characters because they aren't subservient to Sonic and have traits that are directly opposed to him, which makes for an interesting character dynamic.

I agree. But I don't think those dynamics are inherent enough to the characters for that to be their sole dynamic it's like a side thing...at best. People like those characters because they are cool and have cool powers I don't think being opposed to sonic actually matters for most people after the introduction. Jet and metal are two characters where even though jet like the others has a backstory and other motivation. His thing is being the best which puts conflict with sonic who often boasts.  Knuckles, shadow,  silver and blaze have jobs and other shit to do that generally dont make sonic an enemy and dont really care to instigate that conflict if it isnt there. They have no real internal drive for that "rivalry" outside of "you are in my way" and in that sense that's less of a rival and more having a spine really.

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The reason people hate Shadow's current character isn't because he fights Sonic, but because his character is just inherently less interesting than he was before regardless.

No people are upset as to why hes fighting him and why the focus is specifically on that. Like I said the beef with sonic thing for most character is like a side thing, at best. These characters tend to have much more interesting shit carrying them. And to focus on the side thing, to the detriment of the main draw is why people arent liking him right now. I think the specific reaction on the net which has been mostly contempt for shadow's actions towards sonic is proof enough his beef with sonic ain't that valuable if it comes at the cost of characterization. And I think the guy writing the book even agrees with that. And I think that works for all the rival stuff. If that comes at the cost of characterization people like, is it worth it?

 

So dont think I'm selling them short. I think they are more interesting characters than that.

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Ok, given I'm aware that you refuse to listen to anyone else's viewpoints when it comes to these subjects, I'm not going to continue with this because its tiresome for me to do so.

I just want to point out that this debate started because another user was interested in Knuckles acting like a foil to Sonic, and literally none of the stuff you were talking about was relevant to that point at all. 

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I feel like most characters are a foil to Sonic in one way or another, and singling out Knuckles for it is weird. 

Forcing Sonic and Knuckles/Shadow /wjoever to be rivals and fight for petty reasons got overdone a lot in Sonic X and other games so I can see why forcing the characters who've developed past being rivals isn't wanted.

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I just want to point out that this debate started because another user was interested in Knuckles acting like a foil to Sonic, and literally none of the stuff you were talking about was relevant to that point at all. 

Eh, actually what I said in the in the first place was simply " if i'm putting myself in the shoes of someone who has to create content for sonic I probably don't see it as viable to make knuckles that antagonistic anymore. Because he's a different character now and there are at least on surface level easier characters to do that with "

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but no reason why Knuckles aka OG Rival and "opposite color wheel" buddy couldn't maintain his position in his own right.

Which was in response to that.

The rest of the conversation to you was about the points you made. I had already made my point previously. To which I now turn your statement on you, I don't think this pointing out has anything to do with what was said.  My point was that from a writing and marketing standpoint I get why they don't turn back the clock on that. If that wasn't clear, my bad. Sometimes I ramble but I had been made my point. You had responded and I was responding to your thoughts of " underselling "

 

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The main point I was getting at wasn't simply that these characters should regress, but they then have ideals and traits that set them apart from say, the likes of Tails or Amy that make for more interesting dynamics with Sonic.

Not "oh man gawd, they should fight cuz its cool" but more "Hey, these are some interesting traits that are kind of unexplored"

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33 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

The main point I was getting at wasn't simply that these characters should regress, but they then have ideals and traits that set them apart from say, the likes of Tails or Amy that make for more interesting dynamics with Sonic.

Not "oh man gawd, they should fight cuz its cool" but more "Hey, these are some interesting traits that are kind of unexplored"

Fair enough. I think its been made very clear we have some differences in what we value in these dudes. And i'm not trying to say you are inherently wrong.

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2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

The main point I was getting at wasn't simply that these characters should regress, but they then have ideals and traits that set them apart from say, the likes of Tails or Amy that make for more interesting dynamics with Sonic.

Not "oh man gawd, they should fight cuz its cool" but more "Hey, these are some interesting traits that are kind of unexplored"

Exactly. Heck, even Jet and Infinite can be granted these sorts of traits, for development? 

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I never got this weird obsession with making Sonic characters age. People ask things like "it makes no sense that Amy can command a rebellion at 12" and it always feels weird, like they've never seen cartoons or played other games. Kids can do weird stuff because this is a video game.

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The age stuff just feels kind of put in there so they have something, like you could dismiss it completely and nothing matters.

I do feel that the characters have kind of become incredibly two dimensional over the years, of course. The comics and even the film has more personality than the games do. Why bother having these ages too if they're not going to act their age?

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8 minutes ago, Mogtaki said:

The age stuff just feels kind of put in there so they have something, like you could dismiss it completely and nothing matters.

I do feel that the characters have kind of become incredibly two dimensional over the years, of course. The comics and even the film has more personality than the games do. Why bother having these ages too if they're not going to act their age?

If they acted their ages, we'd just get that one Archie comic where they went to school.

Ages don't exist in a bubble. When the oldest character with a confirmed age is 20, that sets the tone for every other character. Tails being 8 would matter less if every other character was 8. And so on. Sonic's thing has always been teenage rebellion, and so I think the ages fit.

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49 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

If they acted their ages, we'd just get that one Archie comic where they went to school.

Ages don't exist in a bubble. When the oldest character with a confirmed age is 20, that sets the tone for every other character. Tails being 8 would matter less if every other character was 8. And so on. Sonic's thing has always been teenage rebellion, and so I think the ages fit.

I'd rather you'd cite a competent writer and not whoever wrote that lol My country wasn't subject to Archie Sonic. We just had Fleetway which was uhh something.

The way the characters are written it certainly seems like it does. Sonic has turned in to "I'm fast. Eggman is bad. Save world from Eggman. Try and be snark around Eggman etc"

The writers for the Sonic Boom cartoon were pretty good, even if they were still a bit too two dimensional.

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Outside of seeing them make mistakes relevant to the emotions associated with their age  range, it just don't matter.

Their ages are relative...the numbers don't matter.

And it's like teh least important thing the series can ever focus on with how it's been going.

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Yeah. Maybe they'll actually make a good storyline/game this time lol Either/or, so long as people enjoy it.

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