Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[DabigRG]

10 minutes ago, UnknownByME said:

I think SEGA's CEO himself said that Sonic is going to need a bigger budget and more developmental branches going forward.

Yeah, evidently, it's quite time-consuming and expensive to design levels for Sonic given that he runs so fast and gaming culture has unfortunately demanded more & more visual fidelity as a must lately.

[Kuzu]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

Stop making points up based on nothing and arguing from that framework. Unleashed was insanely successful financially as was a lot of their other games. 

I'm not dude. Unleashed was in 2008, its 2020. A lot has happened since that game came out. You don't even have to take my word for it if you don't believe me, just do your own research on the matter.

Every game is selling less and less, even if they are performing well critically. There was a ton of advertising and money that went into Sonic Boom and then it crashed and burned. Since then, we've gotten Sonic Mania, an amazing game in it's own right, but it's not exactly a huge triple A title. Then we got Sonic Forces, which is the epitome of phoning it in despite its attempts at being substantial and its confirmed that less staff members worked on that game than normal, some of which have never worked on the series ever.

And then Team Sonic Racing, which practically everybody agreed is a solid game in it's own right, is straight up inferior to Transformed. Even Sumo admitted that the game had a limited budget.

 

That is the most recent output that this series has produced; between that and all of the restructuring at Sega going on, it's hard to not draw some type of conclusion.

[StaticMania]

5 hours ago, Jack at Home said:

5. Unique bosses and villains that aren't just boring chase battles, I enjoyed Zor and Zavok's especially, what kills the difficulty is that stupid charge homing attack that makes it way too easy

I thought this was a comparison to Colours...

Most Sonic games have this...Colours only has 3.

[DabigRG]

30 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

There was a ton of advertising and money that went into Sonic Boom and then it crashed and burned.

Boom also had advances in social media working against it, despite SEGA trying to contain the preemptive fallout with the critics.

[thumbs13]

Since we're focusing on writing right now, I think Heroes has some of the best writing in the series. Not the story itself, that's just as basic as can get, but the character dialogue, interaction, and bits are all really good. I replayed that game a bunch as a kid, and hearing all the call backs and neat interactions were great. 

[Red Hot Jack]

59 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

Since we're focusing on writing right now, I think Heroes has some of the best writing in the series. Not the story itself, that's just as basic as can get, but the character dialogue, interaction, and bits are all really good. I replayed that game a bunch as a kid, and hearing all the call backs and neat interactions were great. 

Okay, maaaybe the interaction during the stages was nice, maybe, because they reacted to the absurd things happening to them, but still I got tired of hearing them all the time. For the cutscenes... I really remember hating them. Everyone is mostly written as a douche, they force team fights, the story doesn't know what's going on, and the few interesting plots are not detailed.

As for the writers, I love: The comics, everything mostly in Ian's era (Archie's 2, and IDW), the Adventure saga, the Storybook saga, Unleashed also had cool personality in it, the OVA, the shorts, the japanese mini-mangas, Sonic Boom tv show, the live action movie of course. Battle and the Rush series weren't so bad either. Meanwhile, Lost World and Forces... I liked their game ideas and premises more than the story, especially the execution that was really ew.

As for the budget: I agree that it has definitely lowered, see: the flop of Lost World, the Olympic crossovers, Boom, anything on Nintendo consoles, those used to be the best selling Sonic consoles at the time of Colors, I hope they keep coming to Switch tbh, because that is my console, I'm afraid they might ditch Nintendo... anyway, those bombs definitely impacted the budget of the series. Sonic game-series is like a tv show in its... 29th season basically, the sales are low and the budget decreases. Logical. SEGA doesn't have big resources anymore, if Sonic doesn't profit they might not want to invest in it, especially if they are not confident in the team that works on the main games.

I know they go with tentative ideas: see the the playable cast? Failed with Sonic '06, Unleashed started the Solo Sonic trend, the Werehog? Failed with Unleashed, never to be seen again, but the boost? That was successful and they milked it as they do with good ideas, like Wisps? Permanent feature in the games. They try again with something adventurous with Boom? More flops, series gets buried and forgotten, what else...  oh, 2D? They decided to bring it back, now it's in every game, the fans asked for Classic Sonic design, and we have it in every game since Generations, now we asked to stop the crossovers, Team Sonic Racing is back focusing on Modern, and the Classic series may likely go separate. Zavok is the one exception, he was never popular, but SEGA is proud of that creation, I do sort of agree, I just want more recurring villains instead of one-off monsters.

So we could theoretically predict what's next for the series... it's up to the fans and how SEGA tries to interpret their requests.

[StaticMania]

6 minutes ago, Jack at Home said:

...because they reacted to the absurd things happening to them, but still I got tired of hearing them all the time.

Context specific lines aren't the character interactions...

[DabigRG]

25 minutes ago, Jack at Home said:

. Everyone is mostly written as a douche, they force team fights,

That really only applied to the team battles.

25 minutes ago, Jack at Home said:

the story doesn't know what's going on,

What was going on altogether, admittedly?

25 minutes ago, Jack at Home said:

 

 the flop of Lost World,

DId it flop?

Either way, I do have to wonder if the Wii U's tenure might've affected that.

25 minutes ago, Jack at Home said:

Unleashed started the Solo Sonic trend, the Werehog? Failed with Unleashed, never to be seen again,

Was the Werehog really something to bring back in-universe?

25 minutes ago, Jack at Home said:

the fans asked for Classic Sonic design, and we have it in every game since Generations, 

Do we?

25 minutes ago, Jack at Home said:

d the Classic series may likely go separate. Zavok is the one exception, he was never popular, but SEGA is proud of that creation,

I wasn't aware Lost World was a Classic game, lol

 

18 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Context specific lines aren't the character interactions...

Eh, considering the characters tended to follow up on those little asides, I'd say at least some of them were.

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Eh, considering the characters tended to follow up on those little asides, I'd say at least some of them were.

Knuckles: We're not going there are we?

Sonic: Yes we are.

----

Sonic: There they are.

Tails: Eggman's robots!

And whatever the equivalent is for the other teams.

[DabigRG]

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

Knuckles: We're not going there are we?

Sonic: Yes we are.

----

Sonic: There they are.

Tails: Eggman's robots!

And whatever the equivalent is for the other teams.

Oh yeah ,Team Sonic had really basic dialogue, for some reason.

Heck, even their theme song was a bit Sunday School.

[thumbs13]

13 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Oh yeah ,Team Sonic had really basic dialogue, for some reason.

Heck, even their theme song was a bit Sunday School.

"We Can" might be the most on the nose song in the series, and I love it.

[Red Hot Jack]

Watching some let's plays on youtube, including long plays, as well as I'm replaying the game myself on PC, but is it me or Lost World is getting reconsidered? If even youtube comments are happy about it, it may as well become the new Unleashed. I'm not saying there is more heart and passion in Lost World, but there sure is a lot of polish there too, unlike other games... I mean, SLW was literally bashed because of the simple art style and it was "too slow", as one comment pointed out, if it was not a Sonic game it would have been loved a lot more. It's really fun and polished. (Let's avoid talking about the plot for a minute)

[DabigRG]

49 minutes ago, Jack at Home said:

Watching some let's plays on youtube, including long plays, as well as I'm replaying the game myself on PC, but is it me or Lost World is getting reconsidered? If even youtube comments are happy about it, it may as well become the new Unleashed. I'm not saying there is more heart and passion in Lost World, but there sure is a lot of polish there too, unlike other games... I mean, SLW was literally bashed because of the simple art style and it was "too slow", as one comment pointed out, if it was not a Sonic game it would have been loved a lot more. It's really fun and polished. (Let's avoid talking about the plot for a minute)

Kinda wanna say it doesn't really surprise me. I seem to recall summations of the game's general reception being okay, with the ones that hated it REALLY not enjoying it.

And yeah, there actually was a fair bit of enthusiasm that went into the game that shows in a few areas.

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, Jack at Home said:

(Let's avoid talking about the plot for a minute)

Yeah, people have already praised this game's plot enough...it's honestly tiring.

Let other aspects of this game get the spotlight for once.

[E-122-Psi]

I want them to actually go back and try a playable Big. Yes, FISHING AND ALL. Hell, if they remake Sonic Adventure, I will riot if Big is not kept. I will riot even if they just make Big do Sonic gameplay normal.

Here's the thing, I don't think Big's gameplay was bad at all in concept. Hell I myself can STAND it in SA1, even if it's not the most riveting experience. The thing is since it begun, the Sonic series was a celebration of all sorts of weirdos with arbitrary abilities. SA1 was just continuing off of the trends Tails and Knuckles and the Chaotix offered in their debuts, and it even came in the same 'pick 'n' mix' structure as those games instead of an enforced roulette like SA2 onwards made the mistake of doing.

I mean Knuckles' role in S3K is pretty much this obscure rodent that can glide and climb with his deformed fists, mainly in what is basically a trash clearing mission on his home turf from the previous faceoff between Sonic and Eggman's badniks. Oh and he can also backwards travel into Sonic 2 just to take over Sonic's role like the true Daffy Duck-esque spotlight craver he is. It's random but people LOVED it because it was handled in a fun way.

In that regard, I think Big's equally random gimmick of a more breezy platforming and fishing hybrid to save some little frog could be equally charming and fun, and hell we have cases like Heroes and Big's Fishing Derby to demonstrate the potential. You don't even have to change the core that much, just enhance it.

[Kuzu]

I do not mind Big as a concept at all, but I do think the execution of his gameplay in SA1 is a significant reason for his reputation both in and out of the series.

I'm very tolerant of all of the weird shit this series does, probably moreso than most fans. But it's a bit much to expect the audience to go from "high speed action-platformer" to "fishing simulator" and not expect some level of pushback.

I can guarantee if they left Big untouched in a Sonic Adventure remake, it would be met with the same level of scorn as it was back then. It either need to be changed to be as unobtrusive as possible or just straight up removed. Anything else I feel requires far too much work and resources, and leaving him alone carries the aforementioned risk.

[E-122-Psi]

Execution was poor but at the same time, I don't think it was because it was bad but more because it was bland and they didn't polish and add enough.

Most of the base reasons people can't stand fishing itself in the game tend to be because 1. They don't make it obvious you're meant to PRESS DOWN to hook Froggy because none of the fish require that, leaving many players including myself initially wondering what to do for hours, and 2. the engine itself was kinda flimsy and the fish/frog AI tended to be dumb and not take the lure at times.

Besides those key problems, the fishing was pretty quick to get through once you know what you're doing, like many a conventional Sonic level. The bigger problem is that it was essentially a quick minigame and they didn't make Big's platforming at the start of each level developed enough to compensate. It's like playing a campaign of levels which are mostly just a boss or a Hedgehog Hammer or something. Let's say they tweaked the fishing minigame but also gave Big a bit more of Sonic's level. He's a little faster and maybe has an extra move like his body slam back ported, but not to the degree he doesn't feel similar to how he was in Adventure, just so it makes things more fun and less of a trudge.

Truthfully I respect Naka just wanted a character that kinda played breezy and laid back, it's just the execution didn't work to that. The fishing to some ended up more frustrating than fun due to the previous avoidable flaws and while the platforming was laid back, it was to the point of being bland if almost non existent. It just needed a bit more development, which in fairness fits a lot of things in SA1 anyway if they intend to remake it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I’m sorry, but if Big is gonna stay then his fishing should be a bonus stage or supplemental mechanic at best, not his main gameplay.

He’s the most in need of a complete rework, and fishing is the most counter to Sonic gameplay than most of the mechanics brought into this game.

It not like he can’t use his fishing rod as a weapon, and he could benefit using it to swing himself like a wrecking ball. And it’s not like you can’t use it to yank items from the water or high places, but otherwise the way it was implemented the first time is not something that should be brought back again. Big should follow the same standards everyone else does as far as playing a Sonic game.

[E-122-Psi]

I think the main problem was the fishing made the bulk of all his levels, when it's basically a minigame. If they'd went for a more even platformer/minigame hybrid, I think that would worked okay. A quick laid back level that was pretty unstressful because the playable character is, well, big, and then a silly random but tolerable minigame. We have random slot machine or pinball or item search bonus stages in every Sonic game after all, just they better accomplish this breezy feel.

I think if they had eased the frustration of the fishing mechanics while also offering a bit more memorable fun playing as Big on foot beforehand, people would have had less qualms.

[Kuzu]

The lack of explanation about the mechanics of his levels is a significant reason why they pissed me off, as well as the fact that there is no way to influence Froggy to hook the line and you mostly have to get lucky. Sure, it's easy once you figure it out, but the lack of explaining is just frustrating. 

I feel the best compromise is to simply have the option to skip his levels after a while; people that want to spend time on his levels can, while others can move on. There's nothing wrong with having a lazy and easygoing Sonic character, and I suppose that was their intention with making Big to begin with, give players a chance to "relax" but they really needed to execute him better and I feel like a remake needs to address him the most. 

[E-122-Psi]

Big's game really seems to have the most remnants of unfinished elements. There's loads of pathway he doesn't use in his levels, and it's not just leftovers from other characters' routes. And while you are given some sort of control of the lure it feels barely programmed (I suppose if it had it could opened up for some more strategic involvement akin to something like Big's Fishing Derby). They also don't really play on Big being BIG besides his heavy lifting that is useful all of a handful of times, it would take until Heroes for them to figure some clever ways to take capitalise on it, mostly in ways that fit this sort of breezy flow like his spamable body slam.

It really feels like Big suffered the most from the game's rushed development (besides maybe Tails, but since he mostly has Sonic's gameplay it's not as detrimental). Everyone else sort of had their core done competently enough and while some of their levels were  half baked, there were still enough times they could show off their potential to be fun.

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

I feel the best compromise is to simply have the option to skip his levels after a while;

That's a weird feature, but since Froggy gets away after each level anyway...I guess it works.

[E-122-Psi]

I don't think Big is nearly as much of an enforced hinderance as cases like SA2 and Next Gen's more badly received alternative playstyles are, largely because he still has his own campaign you can beat in your own time. He only becomes a necessity if you want to get the full ending, which is the same for every SA1 onwards game with two or more campaigns, even the portable ones. You aren't forcibly switched between him and Sonic and have to do his crap before you can do another traditional Sonic level.

As said the main reason the fishing slogged was because the directions and AI weren't handled great. I think if they either made the press down mechanic clearer or got rid of it like the other fishes, as well as make both the fishing lure controls and the fish AI more concise, it would have been pretty simple to do. The bigger problem outside of that is that fishing is just a minigame that doesn't really make up a whole level, he needed more platforming to lead up to it. I mean Gamma has pitiful bosses each level but he at least has some fun platforming beforehand, the boss is just the breezy final task. His quality isn't completely reliant on his minigame gimmick. Ironically despite the countdown stakes, Gamma arguably fit the role of the breezier gameplay, just spamming his laser on everything like crazy and beating a fairly simple mission at the end.

[Kuzu]

I mean, as a completionist; having to go through Big's story to get the final ending annoyed me greatly, so yea, I do see him a huge hindrance. On top of that, he has the least relevant story out of every character as not only he is tangentially related to the main Chaos conflict, but he doesn't even go through a personal character arc either like Amy or Gamma do. I don't wanna say he's "filler", but there's no real sense that anything was accomplished by the time you're finished with playing as him .

[E-122-Psi]

I feel like that's kind of the whole point though, that Big is meant to be the rando of the group that's caught in the middle and doesn't even get the big picture. I do agree that maybe he should have been more intrinsic to how it played, which if anything would have made it more genius, but Big only being indirectly part of the main story worked really, if anything he did a better job than Amy and Gamma since it at least came down to him setting about more than one emerald and even helping against Chaos, if in a minor way.

https://sonicpositive.tumblr.com/post/148416573187/a-character-analysis-big-the-cat

The perspective and individual mission thing was really something I loved about Sonic Adventure, if anything I love it WAY more than Forces or other western media's dynamic where everyone's just an ambitionless soldier in a united group fighting the same fight against the bad guy. It felt way more character driven. And while Big doesn't really change throughout the game, we do get some good introspective from him due to just being this guy with an unrelated agenda (though I've heard that poignant line from him in the Egg Carrier was actually a creation of the English version). I also love how Sonic still proves him wrong in the end by going out of his way to help him out, not to mention he is part of Team Rose in Heroes afterwards. He does get to be part of the big picture in the end.