Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Wraith]

the tone debates are mostly people trying to enforce their stylistic preferences as some kind of objective truth and I've mostly just ignored participating in that discussion because of it. most sonic games are both stylistically consistent with themselves and don't leave the realm of 8 year old friendly action game. not all of them seek to recreate the experience of the original games 1:1 but most of them aren't a far cry from that, stylistically. Mechanically is a whole other thing that I could have a ball-game describing how they fucked up and where, but most Sonic fans are concerned with tone and worldbuilding more than anything else even though I think that stuff was mostly fine up until they stopped trying. Some dark stuff happened but one of the lamest things that started in the past 10 years was everyone trying to file off the ever present more tragic, sinister darkly satirical, edge in an effort to make it more presentable to the WOAH DUDE WHY IS SONIC A WEREWOLF LOL people.

as an aside: there are a lot of things you can read into the classic games and style due to their nature, but entirely dialogue driven sitcom is probably the very last thing I would get from it. if there's anything I think is a direct misunderstanding of the originals, its that. sonic is flexible so I don't mind it doing that but that's probably the farthest you can get from the older games characters with their expressive nature and show-don't tell manner if storytelling and character building.

all this is to say that Sonic Boom is already a boring concept to me on paper, but it could have justified it's own existence if it was funny. It's not. The fact that it got over 100 epsiodes while most of the other, better toons were cancelled early is a crime. I don't know if that's an unpopular opinion or not. It probably isn't, but I felt like saying it. the only worse Sonic cartoon was underground and at least that had uniquely bad ideas.

[Kuzu]

Naw, disliking the Sonic Boom cartoon is a pretty unpopular opinion. 

I don't hate it, but I do agree that it is in fact the furthest thing away from what Sonic is. I'm not going to say that it isn't popular, but outside of the few meme clips you see posted on Twitter all of the time. There's really nothing about the show that's actually interesting to talk about. It's by far the most "2010's" thing Sonic has done with it's almost nihilistic detachment from anything, but nobody has ever come out and said "This is an interesting piece of media"

By fucking comparison, Sonic X is over ten years old and STILL has ardent fans that talk about it online :V

[Wraith]

The only thing I like about it is the voice work. The cast is much more at ease here and isn't victim to what has to be some strange voice direction in the games. 

But otherwise yeah it's dogshit IMO. I don't like seeing expressive designs and goal-driven characters being reduced to this. It's lame. If we're gonna be funny I'd rather it be like the shorts that go along with the games like NOTW, Sonic Mania Adventures and Overdrive.

[Kuzu]

If nothing else, it certainly speaks volumes at how the fanbase views Sonic versus how the public views him. What fans like about the series isn't necessarily what everyone else likes about it, and vice versa. 

I feel like Sonic Boom, the tv show, was mostly successful because it appealed to the current trends at the time. Around  that time, you had  the likes of Regular Show, Teen Titans Go, Looney Tunes Show, airing that generally were exaggerated parodies of their former selves put in a more mundane setting. That's peak millennial type of humor.

That and I guess there's just an inherent interest in seeing a series that's generally just focused on constantly moving forward, just become so mundane that interested people. 

[thumbs13]

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

If nothing else, it certainly speaks volumes at how the fanbase views Sonic versus how the public views him. What fans like about the series isn't necessarily what everyone else likes about it, and vice versa. 

I feel like Sonic Boom, the tv show, was mostly successful because it appealed to the current trends at the time. Around  that time, you had  the likes of Regular Show, Teen Titans Go, Looney Tunes Show, airing that generally were exaggerated parodies of their former selves put in a more mundane setting. That's peak millennial type of humor.

That and I guess there's just an inherent interest in seeing a series that's generally just focused on constantly moving forward, just become so mundane that interested people. 

You hit the nail on the head, honestly. What people expect out of a Sonic cartoon and what people got with Boom were wildly different. The Looney Tunes Show comparison is perfect because they feel like the exact same thing. Wacky characters in a mundane world, with some character changes the older fans still dislike to this day. 

If Boom was a generic action cartoon like the Mega Man and Pac-Man ones that aired a couple years before/after it would have been less memorable, I'd say, but I think the fanbase as a whole would appreciate it way more. 

[Kuzu]

34 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

You hit the nail on the head, honestly. What people expect out of a Sonic cartoon and what people got with Boom were wildly different. The Looney Tunes Show comparison is perfect because they feel like the exact same thing. Wacky characters in a mundane world, with some character changes the older fans still dislike to this day. 

If Boom was a generic action cartoon like the Mega Man and Pac-Man ones that aired a couple years before/after it would have been less memorable, I'd say, but I think the fanbase as a whole would appreciate it way more. 

Its honestly kind of sad that what the fandom wants isn't necessarily what the public wants; so there's always going to be some disconnect there. A new Sonic action show wouldn't do anywhere near as well than what Sonic boom did in the current climate. 

[Shadowlax]

I think a sonic action cartoon would do very well depending on how its made...for kids. Sonic x is problably to date the most successful sonic cartoon. And "the public" doesn't talk about. People who grew up with it do, they were kids at the time.

Kids , young folks and fans would take to it. "The public" far more casual older ones wouldn't, but it also wouldn't be for them. " the public" wouldn't matter in this scenario because target audience would be very different.

Sonic action cartoon would do fine, if not better than boom. It ms existence depends of if sega wants to aim this franchise for children, mostly at children. They have been on a "let's kinda aim it at everyone particularly older lapses fans" for a while. It seems as though they starting to, aim it back mostly at kids. Which may yield the action cartoon you seek.

Sega is problably very aware lapsed fans arent the strongest market in the world. And that films success was kinda built off of the back of children.

[DabigRG]

It's also worth noting Boom could be the X of the following decade.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

8 hours ago, Kuzu said:

And it's not like I'm stupid either; even at 12 years old, I thought something like the cover to Shadow's game was tone-deaf as hell to what Sonic was.

...

Well, I’m personally gonna admit I’ve had some tone-deaf moments when I was young considering I was actually willing to give ShTH a chance.

What can I say? I’m also the same guy that thought Sega would never make a Sonic 4. Lol

As another mention, honestly shocked that some people are saying the Boom cartoon wasn’t that good. I figured it was the one redeeming part of the whole sub-franchise—mind you, I’ve never participated in discussing it all that much barring any mentions of Sticks.

[Moose the Cat]

I'll go the other way on it.

Sonic Boom is easily the best Sonic TV series to date. Even as a hangout comedy show, it still felt truer to Sonic than any series other than X, and Boom is just 100% more watchable, enjoyable, and interesting. Trying to enjoy X if you're not a diehard fan or over the age of 8 is a challenge. Boom is just solid, and funny. Even Boom's cringiest joke is miles beyond whatever the best joke from any other Sonic series.

It's one of the few (only?) Sonic examples in which the character personalities and dynamics are the focus. 

It also nails those personalties and dynamics, then builds out and expands and riffs on traits from there. I've seen a lot of fans point to Boom Knuckles as being OOC for how different he initially seems, but it's actually exactly in line with the games portrayals — it's just exaggerated for comic effect. 

Knuckles in Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic Adventure, and Sonic Adventure 2 is a buffoon in every one of those games. He has some embarrassing goof up kind of all the time. He seems cool and brooding and bad-ass.... and Sonic X leaned in that direction more than any other besides Penders/Archie... but if you are just looking at the Games, to Sonic Boom, then Knuckles is as spot on as anyone else. He's a meathead doofus. 

His design is exaggerated and different for comic effect and to provide some vertical contrast among the cast, and there's no mention of protecting the Master Emerald, but again, neither thing is such a divergence from the games to necessitate needing being an entirely different universe  (in my headcanon that's because Boom takes place in the good future, Sonic & friends are in their mid-20s instead of mid-teens, Eggman is no longer a threat, he's under house arrest on Prison Island where they keep guard on Eggman with new pal and island native Sticks)

...

Also, it's incredibly stupid to invent a whole new universe anytime a character changes clothes, there shouldn't be a need to rewrite the entire "canon" to justify experimenting with a different character design. 

Sonic, in particular, is a strong enough core shape that he can not only withstand different design aesthetics, he thrives on them. They should try to have more fun with him in the art design instead of this bland generic style they use for most Sonic media.

Like, it would be cool if Sonic games experimented in this area more, rather than being so consistent to "brand Sonic"... like imagine a Sonic game in the art style of Wind Waker, and then the next Sonic game in the art style of Twilight Princess, just as one example. 

 

 

 

[thumbs13]

Bouncing off what was said above,  classic Sonic shouldn't have been past Sonic. He should have just been what Sonic looks like in 2D. Just like Riders gave everyone different designs.  Classic Sonic was fine in generations, but it only worked as a one off. 

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I was actually fine with Classic Sonic being his younger self.

Then shit fell apart when they were like “nah...”

[Miles Storzillo]

Finally, we're back on topic.  Anyways, unpopular

-I legit think a game that's trying to be the definitive Sonic Unleashed, but without the werehog, doesn't deserve to be called Sonic Unleashed

[StaticMania]

The project?

Well they could just call it the Japanese name then...for all that's actually worth.

[E-122-Psi]

5 hours ago, Moose the Cat said:

It also nails those personalties and dynamics, then builds out and expands and riffs on traits from there. I've seen a lot of fans point to Boom Knuckles as being OOC for how different he initially seems, but it's actually exactly in line with the games portrayals — it's just exaggerated for comic effect. 

Knuckles in Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic Adventure, and Sonic Adventure 2 is a buffoon in every one of those games. He has some embarrassing goof up kind of all the time. He seems cool and brooding and bad-ass.... and Sonic X leaned in that direction more than any other besides Penders/Archie... but if you are just looking at the Games, to Sonic Boom, then Knuckles is as spot on as anyone else. He's a meathead doofus. 

Even Sonic X gave up on that quickly and just undermined him non-stop. In fact I could argue Sonic X was a meaner jab to Knuckles since by the end of the series he practically felt like the Meg of its universe, his role and backstory ignored by everyone unless it was useful (eg. bullying him into using the ME as a power source for their space ship) and all his quirks making him a laughing stock (his gullibility was exploited as much by the heroes as Eggman). Compare to Boom where, while everyone seems openly aware Knuckles is an idiot, they at least show they LIKE him and consider him part of the main group.

I have to say one thing though, Knuckles being this more comedic Daffy Duck-ish egotistical foil to Sonic like in later X and Boom fits PERFECTLY with how he was introduced through Sonic And Knuckles. I mean we have him hijacking Sonic's role in past games as the main playable character with tons of fanfare.

 

You think that emblem that's even bigger than the actual title itself spells things out clear enough? Maybe need a little more emphasis there? 

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Even Sonic X gave up on that quickly and just undermined him non-stop. In fact I could argue Sonic X was a meaner jab to Knuckles since by the end of the series he practically felt like the Meg of its universe, his role and backstory ignored by everyone and all his quirks making him a laughing stock (his gullibility was exploited as much by the heroes as Eggman). Compare to Boom where, while everyone seems openly aware Knuckles is an idiot, they at least show they LIKE him and consider him part of the main group.

I feel it's important to note that like Daffy Duck, Knuckles kind of brought it on himself by generally being an unfriendly grump to the group. You can't really blame the team for treating him badly when he doesn't want to cooperate. When he does help out, he tends to be treated much more favorably, and he's still the main character who fights alongside Sonic when the going gets tough.

That said, yea, The complainer is always wrong is in full effect there lol.

[E-122-Psi]

27 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I feel it's important to note that like Daffy Duck, Knuckles kind of brought it on himself by generally being an unfriendly grump to the group. You can't really blame the team for treating him badly when he doesn't want to cooperate. When he does help out, he tends to be treated much more favorably, and he's still the main character who fights alongside Sonic when the going gets tough.

That said, yea, The complainer is always wrong is in full effect there lol.

I think the issue there is that, not only are a HUGE amount of X interpretations more unfriendly or mocking to each other (eg. Shadow sadistically beats up kids, Sonic sometimes trolls others, Amy is equally grouchy and violent, hell even Cream can have a bitchy side sometimes) but they tend to get far more lax treatment, with Knuckles coming off as taking the brunt for everyone's scummier sides, sometimes for only being nominally grouchy or even having a solid reason to be (again just stealing the ME as a fuel supply and then beating him up when he complains, they don't even go for that token 'tried to be nice' moment beforehand where ask and point out the necessity but he rudely refuses, they don't respect him or the ME's importance enough to bother with that).

I think it might also be that, besides the friendly but still vitriolic rivalries like with Sonic and Rouge, it felt like weren't a lot of redeeming softer moments between Knuckles and the others, even the officially quoted one with Cosmo was a dub addition, in the original they were pretty much just buttering him up. Amy had one moment of trying to understand him early on, but after he spurned her, she went 'screw you too then' and remained arguably the most dismissive and antagonistic towards him. Everyone else besides maybe Chris generally doesn't bother interacting with him otherwise. As mentioned Boom had moments of the gang mocking Knuckles and being open about his vices (electing him as Sonic's partner in Into The Wilderness is blatantly meant to be a handicap) but they still bond with him and routinely show they are close to him, the redeeming factor is far more developed and prevailent. X Knuckles feels like that member of the group no one really likes or finds interesting and only keeps around because they are easy to drag into doing their dirty work. Sure they don't want him to DIE or anything, the show isn't THAT mean spirited, but that's more just basic empathy. Even just having one of those parable moments could have rectified that, one that showed they use and rib him sometimes but still have a limit, could have made a world of difference (I can't believe freaking AMERICAN DAD bothered to pinpoint that sort of dynamic before Sonic X ).

Maybe it's just I didn't really like that peer pressure gag, it was basically the cast busting the poor guy's balls whenever he wouldn't do what they said. Maybe using it ONCE, but they did it nearly every time he didn't want to do something, and they made the mistake of it often being when he turned out to be right in some way. Especially in the Japanese edit, where the insults are far more bluntly nasty and Knuckles just sounds so damn submissive and wimpy. These guys are essentially bullying him.

[Kuzu]

17 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think the issue there is that, not only are a HUGE amount of X interpretations more unfriendly or mocking to each other (eg. Shadow sadistically beats up kids, Sonic sometimes trolls others, Amy is equally grouchy and violent, hell even Cream can have a bitchy side sometimes) but they tend to get far more lax treatment, with Knuckles coming off as taking the brunt for everyone's scummier sides, sometimes for only being nominally grouchy or even having a solid reason to be (again just stealing the ME as a fuel supply and then beating him up when he complains, they don't even go for that token 'tried to be nice' moment beforehand where ask and point out the necessity but he rudely refuses, they don't respect him or the ME's importance enough to bother with that).

I think it might also be that, besides the friendly but still vitriolic rivalries like with Sonic and Rouge, it felt like weren't a lot of redeeming softer moments between Knuckles and the others, even the officially quoted one with Cosmo was a dub addition, in the original they were pretty much just buttering him up. Amy had one moment of trying to understand him early on, but after he spurned her, she went 'screw you too then' and remained arguably the most dismissive and antagonistic towards him. Everyone else besides maybe Chris generally doesn't bother interacting with him otherwise. As mentioned Boom had moments of the gang mocking Knuckles and being open about his vices (electing him as Sonic's partner in Into The Wilderness is blatantly meant to be a handicap) but they still bond with him and routinely show they are close to him, the redeeming factor is far more developed and prevailent. X Knuckles feels like that member of the group no one really likes or finds interesting and only keeps around because they are easy to drag into doing their dirty work. Sure they don't want him to DIE or anything, the show isn't THAT mean spirited, but that's more just basic empathy. Even just having one of those parable moments could have rectified that, one that showed they use and rib him sometimes but still have a limit, could have made a world of difference (I can't believe freaking AMERICAN DAD bothered to pinpoint that sort of dynamic before Sonic X ).

Maybe it's just I didn't really like that peer pressure gag, it was basically the cast busting the poor guy's balls whenever he wouldn't do what they said. Maybe using it once or twice, but they did it nearly every time he didn't want to do something, and they made the mistake of it often being when he turned out to be right in some way. Especially in the Japanese edit, where the insults are far more bluntly nasty and Knuckles just sounds so damn submissive and wimpy. These guys are essentially bullying him.

I think you're severely over exaggerating how bad all of that was tbh; it's not some sadist show like Rick and Morty (or most of Adult Swim's lineup), it's like...standard Japanese children shit. Its really not as bad as you're making it seem. 

[E-122-Psi]

3 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I think you're kind of exaggerating how bad all of that was tbh; it's not some sadist show like Rick and Morty (or most of Adult Swim's lineup), it's like...standard Japanese children shit. Its really not as bad as you're making it seem. 

It wasn't THAT excessive, just again, there weren't really enough strong redeeming moments to balance it out for me. The cast were distant and apathetic at best or making him their punching bag at worst. Boom arguably got away with bigger ribs at Knuckles because they DID have proper soft moments and chemistries.

I agree with the previous comment really that Boom was better at developing chemistries with the cast.

[Kuzu]

Just now, E-122-Psi said:

It wasn't THAT excessive, just again, there weren't really enough strong redeeming moments to balance it out for me. The cast were distant and apathetic at best or making him their punching bag at worst. Boom arguably got away with bigger ribs at Knuckles because they DID have proper soft moments and chemistries.

Yea, and I'm saying it's not as bad as you're making it sound. 

[E-122-Psi]

I guess it's just a downfall of X not really looking into deep chemistries that much, it was mostly gags and formula (the problems with Amy's characterisation this era like her demon head moments also got punctuated here for example and her own redeeming moments got less and less). Ironically despite X being the more earnestly told series, Boom had tighter more endearing chemistries and characterisations.

I mean Sonic himself barely interacted with anyone else in X, he was largely just an ace type idolised and cooperated with from a distance. He was practically a two dimensional plot device. I'm pretty glad the comic version did away with that and shown him fooling around with the others way more.

[Kuzu]

I mean, both series do entirely different things; Sonic X is more in line with the games as an action-adventure series, and at times, parodying and exaggerating those same elements. 

Boom is pretty much a mundane sitcom, so it kind of needs to focus more on characterization to make up for its lack of action and energy.

[E-122-Psi]

I think some cultural storytelling differences plus bare bones writing still hindered X at times though, and the comic version's sometimes better fluency with the premise shown that at times.

It did admittedly feel like that era was still struggling to click some character dynamics anyway though, I mean Sonic and Tails were weirdly distant and formal in the games, not just the anime.

[Kuzu]

X was weird; Chris is the main character there, and as such, his relationship with Sonic is much more focused on. That said, X was good at giving everyone their own spotlight; of the anthropomorphic cast, I think everyone got at least one moment to shine without having to be near Sonic. Sonic being much more aloof and distant worked to the show's advantage for giving its supporting cast room to breathe. And it's certainly in line with that era where the cast was much more diluted. 

Boom also kind of had Sonic & Tails somewhat distant; nowhere near as much as X, but their characterizations and focused differed widely, Tails treating his spot as sidekick as a literal job. You can make an argument that Sonic was closer to Knuckles given the activities the two shared. 

[E-122-Psi]

13 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

X was weird; Chris is the main character there, and as such, his relationship with Sonic is much more focused on. That said, X was good at giving everyone their own spotlight; of the anthropomorphic cast, I think everyone got at least one moment to shine without having to be near Sonic. Sonic being much more aloof and distant worked to the show's advantage for giving its supporting cast room to breathe. And it's certainly in line with that era where the cast was much more diluted. 

Boom also kind of had Sonic & Tails somewhat distant; nowhere near as much as X, but their characterizations and focused differed widely, Tails treating his spot as sidekick as a literal job. You can make an argument that Sonic was closer to Knuckles given the activities the two shared. 

Still though Sonic and Tails blatantly hung out together and had a natural best bro chemistry, teasing or playing with each other a lot, just there was a balance of them having different agendas (still they make a point that that version of Tails really thrives on showing off his hobbies to Sonic, sometimes almost desperate for attention). This sort of intimacy was seldom there in the 2000s era where it was largely very formal and they rarely interacted outside missions or chance events, hell Sonic's 'long time no see' was practically a catchphrase. I suppose it is one thing we can thank the Pontac era for reinstating.

That said, it comes off a lot like Sonic and Tails' closeness was developed a lot more primarily by the western canon anyway. I haven't read much of the early manga, but it sounds a lot like there Tails' role was similar, just a formal sidekick to Sonic's superhero alias and not having many casual interactions. Essentially work buddies who might have a beer together once in a blue moon.