Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[DabigRG]

8 hours ago, batson said:

I don't know if this is unpopular enough to warrant, but I was actually more invested in the story in Heroes than in the story of any main series game of the past ten years.

I suppose that makes some sense. Lost World was probably the most involved of them and even then, we knew about one of the swerves early on. It also probably didn't help that most of the other few were being questionably handled.

Meanwhile, Heroes had more characters who at least felt more involved, on top of the majority being playable. Of course, it also had the benefit of coming right off of SA2 to do some hype for it, compared to Lost World being it's own thing.

[E-122-Psi]

10 hours ago, thumbs13 said:

Dang, you really wanted to see Froggy and Chocola found, huh.

But I agree with you to an extent. Seeing how everything ties together is always fun.

Well it was understatedly cool seeing the ragtag misfits of Team Rose form together and take a level in badass.

I just think it's a shame the dialogue is not only so excessive but unbearably generic and one liner-y in Heroes, they could have utilised it more sparingly for proper character interactions and what not.

Making Chaotix money motivated however were as genius move. They go from a generic sidekick squad to the ideal comic relief.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

This isn’t an opinion so much as a feeling I have. Something about Forces just makes me feel like Sonic is kinda dead in the water, in a way I’ve never felt before. I know that Sega has been keeping Sonic alive through Mania Plus, TSR, and a new comic line, but the actual mainline core game front seems so hollow and empty. It would be a massive relief to get some kind of peek into what they’re going for with the next game. The premise, the gameplay style, anything really. The Sonic scene just looks so bleak to me right now. 

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

This isn’t an opinion so much as a feeling I have. Something about Forces just makes me feel like Sonic is kinda dead in the water, in a way I’ve never felt before. I know that Sega has been keeping Sonic alive through Mania Plus, TSR, and a new comic line, but the actual mainline core game front seems so hollow and empty. It would be a massive relief to get some kind of peek into what they’re going for with the next game. The premise, the gameplay style, anything really. The Sonic scene just looks so bleak to me right now. 

Understandable. They did basically do a grand finale type story that leaves things on a messy note to continue from.

[E-122-Psi]

I feel like I'm the only one that doesn't hate SA1's Sky Chase.

While it could have been more intuitive, I thought they were fun enough, and I loved how well they set up the climax, especially due to that badass theme and the transitions being about the only well animated in-game cutscenes SA1 had.

 

I'm actually kinda disappointed Big didn't get one at the end of his campaign.

[Moose the Cat]

The next core mainline Sonic game needs to combine the many faces of Sonic into something whole.

1) Massive open world "hub" world (ie, basically Sonic Utopia fan game). 

• Load the game, this is where you begin.
• No badniks, just rings and springs and loops and a huge island to run and roll around.
• The hub world should be similar in scale to Utopia, but with more incentives for the different ways you can play on the island.
  • In one sense, it's like a skate park in the old Tony Hawk games, where you can earn bonus/cool points with different tricks/launching yourself long distances and beating your own records.
  • In another sense, it's a bit like Mario Odyssey's airship or a much more minimalist version of Animal Crossing -- being able to decorate your island and home (a hut like in Sonic Boom, maybe, or the passenger airplane covered in moss embedded into the island). 
  • There's also multiple Chao Gardens, each located near a waterfall or body of water. 

2) The levels are accessed via the hub through Warp Rings, like the paintings in SM64. As you complete levels/objectives, your Chaos Power increases and more appear and open up on the island.

• Not all Warp Rings appear until the end; at first it only seems like there's 3. The one you can access by default, and 2 you need to earn more CP to access. But once you gain access to those, more "preview" Warp Rings appear, and so on. 
• There's a "Most Recent" savestate Warp Ring accessible in front of you from the first seconds in the hub, and always accessible via the Pause Menu. 
  • The Pause Menu doesn't stop the game; it save-states the level and instantly warps you back to the hub world of South Island. If you need to grab a drink or take a leak, Sonic will wait and tap his foot in peace.

3) The levels are consecutive-campaign style -- without returning to the hub world between levels (though, the hub is always just the start button away)

• Your actions impact the hub aesthetically
  • Each level has a hidden "kill count" for badniks/rescue animals. Each time you first save an animal/kill a badnik, they are transported at stage completion to live happily in the hub world, where you can pair them with your Chao. 
    • Total amount of animals in hub = total amount of badniks in game
    • Rings/other collectibles can yield item prizes, like Flickie water slide or bigger totem poles or something idk.
• Cut-scenes between levels are skippable but always accessible from the Hub menu. 
• Beating the level unlocks the Warp Ring on the hub. 

4) Multiple play styles = multiple campaigns

• After completion, levels can be arranged into "playlists" that can be shared -- arranging the Warp Rings in a specific way -- allowing for varied campaigns or all-boss runs or whatever.
• But, there's NO MORE combining these into one mega campaign/teams as the default. For a series built on "momentum" modern Sonic has absolutely no sense of that; since SA2 onward, it's jerking you around from one play-style to another without letting you get into a groove on any one of them. 
  • Boost gameplay is its own full campaign.
  • Battle/search is its own full campaign. 
  • 2D sidescroller is its own full campaign (although if it's not Mania Team, then drop it; the Boost stages already do plenty of 2D sections)

5) Drop-in/out Multiplayer (Co-op/Competitive)

• The original Sonic games were better co-op experiences than Mario because Sonic & Tails were on screen at the same time.
• The franchise has always had an arcade feel, in 2D and 3D, but the multiplayer hasn't translated in 3D aside from SA2: Battle (which was beloved!)
• A second player -- 2P or CPU -- should be able to join in a level anytime, either to help the 1P or race them to the finish.  Split screen for Boost/2D, shared screen for Battle.
• It allows scaleable difficulty, aimed at accessibility to the least skilled player, and a high ceiling of challenge for the veteran player

[Whatever the WhoCares]

On 5/4/2020 at 5:41 PM, DabigRG said:

Understandable. They did basically do a grand finale type story that leaves things on a messy note to continue from.

Somehow I get the feeling that the next game is “do or die.” Like, if it’s not good, then Sonic will retreat to 2D-only games for the following decade or so. If rumors of Iizuka’s disappointment with Forces are to be believed, then it’s safe to say he’s at least trying for something different next time around. 

[Yeetori]

So there is one controversial I have that seemed to have rustled some people the wrong way. 

It's basically my thoughts on Mania overall. Now let me say that the game was enjoyable and do think it was one of the better Sonic games of course. However my issues come with the level designs. Now hear me out. The issue I have is basically how tedious the levels are and I just think they completely drag on. Sure Sonic 3 was also the same but with Mania I just have difficulty traversing the game overall and do think there are too many things sometimes happening that really keeps me from enjoying the game.

Now I have mentioned this before and the only responses I get is "git gud". I'm bad at games usually so maybe it could've been me? but no, even speedrunning the game the levels tend to be just as tedious as my first run.

[Silvereyes]

7 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I feel like I'm the only one that doesn't hate SA1's Sky Chase.

I like Sky Chase, but I don't like how the 2 levels for it aren't very different, and you have to play both levels twice as Sonic and Tails. It just gets repetitive, like the Chaos 4 boss fight.

Kind of a weird one. If Sonic did decide to go and start dating, I think most female characters would say yes to a date with Sonic. I don't want Sonic to actually go out dating characters like he did in the Penders era, neither I do want every female character wanting him like Amy. But I do kindof like the idea that Sonic is just such a cool figure, I imagine female characters see him like how say real life women like handsome celebrities. I dunno, I think there is something cute in that, especially the few times they ever hint at it. (I don't know if it is my imagination, but doesn't Blaze wink at Sonic at one point in one of the Rush games? I don't know if I imagined that.) It's just a thought looking at this panel with Tangle from IDW #24. Yeah, Tangle may not fancy Sonic, but you can tell she is just geeking out while getting heroically carried by Sonic.

[BadBehavior]

1 hour ago, Silvereyes said:

I like Sky Chase, but I don't like how the 2 levels for it aren't very different, and you have to play both levels twice as Sonic and Tails. It just gets repetitive, like the Chaos 4 boss fight.

Kind of a weird one. If Sonic did decide to go and start dating, I think most female characters would say yes to a date with Sonic. I don't want Sonic to actually go out dating characters like he did in the Penders era, neither I do want every female character wanting him like Amy. But I do kindof like the idea that Sonic is just such a cool figure, I imagine female characters see him like how say real life women like handsome celebrities. I dunno, I think there is something cute in that, especially the few times they ever hint at it. (I don't know if it is my imagination, but doesn't Blaze wink at Sonic at one point in one of the Rush games? I don't know if I imagined that.) It's just a thought looking at this panel with Tangle from IDW #24. Yeah, Tangle may not fancy Sonic, but you can tell she is just geeking out while getting heroically carried by Sonic.

While we're on that topic, I ship Sonic X Blaze. Just similar enough with powers, skills and responsibilities, but different in terms of personality and mannerisms.

[Almar]

Erazor is the best of the "serious" non-Eggman big villains. And frankly, he'd be a better Nega Eggman than Eggman Nega himself.

[DabigRG]

8 hours ago, Almar said:

Erazor is the best of the "serious" non-Eggman big villains. And frankly, he'd be a better Nega Eggman than Eggman Nega himself.

How so?

[Almar]

Nega is just Eggman without any affable bits. Compared to Blaze (Nega Sonic) and Marine (Nega Tails), he's hilariously lagging behind since he's not actually different from Eggman where it counts and/or does it in a way that's bland and undermines Eggman as a villain.

Erazor is a magic being instead of another villainous scientist, is muscular rather than obese, is grim and sneering rather than grinning and hoppy. He wasn't intended as such but that speaks well on how they did the laziest job they could've done when making Eggman Nega.

[DabigRG]

38 minutes ago, Almar said:

Nega is just Eggman without any affable bits.

Oh, he's affable--almost overtly so. 

Just, you know, the faux kind.

Quote

Compared to Blaze (Nega Sonic) and Marine (Nega Tails), he's hilariously lagging behind since he's not actually different from Eggman where it counts and/or does it in a way that's bland and undermines Eggman as a villain.

I never thought of them as that, but I suppose you can say he has Eggman's anger without his immaturity and Blaze likewise has Sonic's hot-blood but not his upbeat attitude. Would that make Marine just Tails' childishness but not his ...maturity?

Anyway, I'm sure he was a product of them either not wanting two sets of boss voice clips or simply liking the idea of Eggman having a twin he can monologue in tandem with compared to Blaze being against working with Sonic.

Quote

Erazor is a magic being instead of another villainous scientist, is muscular rather than obese, is grim and sneering rather than grinning and hoppy. He wasn't intended as such but that speaks well on how they did the laziest job they could've done when making Eggman Nega.

Huh. Sounds familiar.

I guess that is objectively true though. Never gave him that much thought.

[PaperSonic]

My two biggest Hot takes probably are:

-Mania, while a really fun game, I feel lacks its own identity.  I'd never call it "the real Sonic 4" 

- While I respect Sonic Team Junior for all they've accomplished, Sonic Robo Blast 2 just... is not fun to play. The controls never felt right to me (in particular, Sonic's jump), with simple platforming feeling like a Herculian task; I appreciate the attempt to emulate the Classic games' momentum, but even in those games you have more air control. Lack of the Homing Attack or Insta-Shield makes hitting enemies or monitors a pain. And while I admire how wide and expansive the level design is, I feel it overdoes it, and feels way too busy. I get lost all the time in the game, with next-to-nothing to indicate if you're going the wrong way. And every level is filled to the brim with bottomless pits, making mistakes be more lethal than they should.

[E-122-Psi]

Sonic Mania is more a commemoration of the previous titles than a sequel to me. That itself is fine, I feel that is pretty much exactly what the developers were aiming for, but yeah.

Another hot take, I don't mind Sonic 4 at all, it's fine for a quick downloadable Sonic title of its time, it just should NEVER have been called Sonic 4. Sonic Classic or something, but that sort of moniker it just couldn't add up to.

I feel like the nearest to being a Sonic 4 in spirit out of the later 2D platformers is the first Sonic Advance, and even then it's arguable if it fits the role (especially since it's made by the same team that did the proper Sonic 4 anyway).

[Meta77]

One thing for me is I really wish Eggman was more evil in recent games like in adventure 1 and 2. Still funny at times but I think peak eggman evilness was always SA2. Noting tops that really that i can think of. Outside bombing a actual live festival with people all around.

[Red Hot Jack]

3 hours ago, Meta77 said:

One thing for me is I really wish Eggman was more evil in recent games like in adventure 1 and 2. Still funny at times but I think peak eggman evilness was always SA2. Noting tops that really that i can think of. Outside bombing a actual live festival with people all around.

Nah, I actually prefer Eggman in recent games, he's bonkers, blows up the planet, enslaves aliens and tries mind control, messes up time and space, then you get Lost World!Eggman who is a wise middle age man lol, kinda weird but still enjoyed him, he always tries to come out on top among villains, he's a sneaky player, meanwhile in Forces... I found him really boring and forgettable, that was supposed to be his chance at world domination, and he's just like "I hate that hedgehog!"

If anything, Boom!Eggman is the lame joke one, goofy, mean and grumpy neightbour but not much else. Team ups with Sonic in nearly every episode... it got tiring after a while. As entertaining as he was.

Can't say much about Movie!Robotnik other than he was an origin story with plenty of charisma. Not quite yet Eggman but he'll get there.

IDW!Eggman is basically like his Archie self, only more of a buffoon and incompetent in the long term... which is the best of both worlds, Archie combined with recent game Eggman.

SA series Eggman was really menacing but hardly goofy and incompetent, so... cool but a bit boring? Plus he didn't really go all out with crazy plans. Not even with the moon thing.

And I agree about Nega, he's Eggman without the charm. Eh.

[E-122-Psi]

I think characterisation wise SA Eggman was okay (could have used a bit more of his comedic wit but nearly there), the main problem was that this era of Eggman got stuck in an enforced staple where there always had to be a bigger badder villain that outclassed him in every way, no matter how competent he was. His role was becoming driven by a formula rather than his own personality. This is where Nega comes off as glaring since it felt like a case of them deciding they'd rather have another separate version of Eggman that is nastier and more unlikeable be running things than just Eggman himself.

Ironically despite being able to break this hierarchy more often in the later games, the actual execution of the story otherwise tends to be more lethargic.

I wouldn't say even Boom Eggman was stuck in the same monotony as bad though, since they loved playing on the fact that he wasn't TOTALLY incompetent. I did love how Boom Eggman was incredibly savvy to ALL the heroes' flaws for example, not just Knuckles'. He could hide behind his pitiful exterior to manipulate them quite smoothly, even in cases like Eggman the Auteur where they weren't holding the idiot ball and knew something was up. I also liked the subtle arc of him banding all the bad guys together in Season One, there was SOME trial and error going on.

[Starry Skydancer]

"Post your sonic opinion here."

Partially "green eyes" post, partially "Sonic Team doesn't usually give eyes enough detail."

Honestly, usually I think Sonic characters' eyes look pretty blank.

When properly detailed, honestly Sonic's eyes pop really well against his blue and have a fiercely alive quality.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

I've been relistening to SA2's soundtrack recently. Wow, did I underrate this thing quite a bit. It's absolutely top notch stuff. I've always thought SA2's soundtrack was good but it's after reslistening closely recently, it's certainly better than good. 

I hadn't gotten into many of the tracks before because, much of the gameplay in the game is annoying at times. In the particular case of Rouge, boy did I miss out. It's not that I hadn't head this soundtrack before, it's just I didn't pay as close attention to it as many of the other Sonic games because I found myself often frustrated with the extra characters. 

Rouge's tracks are absolutely outstanding. I love Brazilian jazz in general, it's a fairly regular listen for me. This could easily fit in on my Playlist, very high quality. 

 

I have to rethink my overall soundtrack list. Before I had SA1 as in a different tier than SA2 but I think I've changed my mind. Its much closer than I thought. Quite close. SA1 is still arguably the best, but SA2 is right there with it, maybe just behind. 

[batson]

11 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

I've been relistening to SA2's soundtrack recently. Wow, did I underrate this thing quite a bit. It's absolutely top notch stuff. I've always thought SA2's soundtrack was good but it's after reslistening closely recently, it's certainly better than good. 

I hadn't gotten into many of the tracks before because, much of the gameplay in the game is annoying at times. In the particular case of Rouge, boy did I miss out. It's not that I hadn't head this soundtrack before, it's just I didn't pay as close attention to it as many of the other Sonic games because I found myself often frustrated with the extra characters. 

Rouge's tracks are absolutely outstanding. I love Brazilian jazz in general, it's a fairly regular listen for me. This could easily fit in on my Playlist, very high quality. 

 

I have to rethink my overall soundtrack list. Before I had SA1 as in a different tier than SA2 but I think I've changed my mind. Its much closer than I thought. Quite close. SA1 is still arguably the best, but SA2 is right there with it, maybe just behind. 

How do you feel about Heroes soundtrack? Personally I feel that the soundtracks of SA, SA2 and Heroes forms a sort of holy trinity among 3D Sonic game soundtracks that no later games in the series have been able to match.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

13 hours ago, batson said:

How do you feel about Heroes soundtrack? Personally I feel that the soundtracks of SA, SA2 and Heroes forms a sort of holy trinity among 3D Sonic game soundtracks that no later games in the series have been able to match.

Sonic Unleashed is on par with SA2 overall, possibly superior but it's very close. In the past I had Unleashed as a tier, or maybe half tier above but since I'm raising SA2 a bit they're about even now.

I'd probably take it over heroes... but I also haven't listened to heroes soundtrack in a while. I might have to revisit soon. 

Maybe I should do a tier list of soundtracks. Very few Sonic soundtracks would be below a B though, which would make it difficult. 

 

Edit: when I think about a tier list, in order to do full justice one would have to do two lists. One in the context of being a Sonic game and the other as an indepdent collection in its own right. The lists would look very differently obviously based on that.

I might just want to do one list though, and I'd probably stick to the Sonic game context. 

[XxCordovaManxX]

Honey The Cat and Void should be in future Sonic games.

[Red Hot Jack]

Zavok > Infinite

For me. 

Only him though. Not the rest of the D6, those are basically offensive, because they are clichè tropes & joke villains, I'm upset by Zomom, Zeena, Zor, and even Zazz honestly, gender, body shape, mind issues and bad cynism, turned into pathetic antagonists, yeah it does that effect.

Meanwhile, while I do think both Zavok and Infinite have potential, let's list the points:

Zavok:

+ Has far more skills, besides, he has brutal strenght which most Sonic antagonists lack, a la Bowser, whose type we do need in the series

+ He's not a joke unlike his companions, he's just "used" as a joke

+ Can be an antagonist almost on par as Eggman, except they want to use him as Eggman's minion, a fodder villain sidekick

+ He does villains speeches very well

+ He actually thinks before he acts, but then he also takes action, directly

+ Has a transformation (sorta)

+ I don't mind his devil-esque design

+ The taste for raw dark lines means something with him, it's not meant to look funny and awkward

Infinite

- Better theme song

- Waaay better design, fits more the series

- More of a unique ability, but basically only one and it's very downplayed, they didn't go crazy with it

- He can get into the hero's mind

Both really fall flat because they are badly written, not used properly, come off as generic villains so that's lame, but there is potential with them.

As much as I liked the idea of a team of villains, I don't want the Deadly Six, Forces had that opportunity to have a team up for past antagonists and wasted it big time. I'm gonna be intrigued by the Bad Guys comic miniseries.

I also prefer them to any other antagonists, except for the main ones, Eggman, Shadow, Metal Sonic, Chaos. The rest I really dislike, going from Nega and Mephiles the recolors that lack the charm of the originals, Black Doom and the monsters of the week I never really liked.

Now I liked Erazor Dijn and Merlina, obviously they are well written, surprising, intimidating, twisted, of course they are self-contained to their own story. So that's done.

Although I like the villains from other incarnations A LOT.