Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[E-122-Psi]

5 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

It's not exactly out of character for Knuckles to overreact being the high strung person that he is, and Sally is a good friend of his. It's pretty understandable for him to be upset at what happened to her, but it wouldn't make much sense for him to hold it against Sonic either because as you said, it was something out of his control and Knuckles should know Sonic well enough to understand that. 

Julie-Su even comforts him afterward asking if he's alright since she knows Sally was Knuckles` friend. 

Again though, emotionally expected or not, it's quite an outburst to try and turn a blind eye towards. Again the same issue with other characters like Sally. Just because the character has a sympathetic reason for blowing off doesn't take away the callous blow. You make them do something so harsh it still makes them far more likeable to say sorry afterwards. Otherwise it just feels like melodrama that didn't go anywhere. Just characters screaming at each other in an unlikeable way.

[Kuzu]

10 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Again though, emotionally expected or not, it's quite an outburst to try and turn a blind eye towards. Again the same issue with other characters like Sally. Just because the character has a sympathetic reason for blowing off doesn't take away the callous blow. You make them do something so harsh it still makes them far more likeable to say sorry afterwards. Otherwise it just feels like melodrama that didn't go anywhere. Just characters screaming at each other in an unlikeable way.

Eh, I just don't see it. It'd be one thing if it was say, a character that's usually nicer to Sonic who blew up on him, like say Nicole. But this is Knuckles, and in this particular continuity, this is the same Knuckles who Sonic got into petty fights with for literally no reason at all. Knuckles, the dude who has confirmed anger issues,  yelling at him is honestly one of the least callous thing he could have done, so I don't think it really warrants apologizing for. 

You have the situation with Sonic and Silver, as well as with Nicole and Mina as well, so I don't feel it's as much of a problem as you're making it out to be.

[E-122-Psi]

10 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Eh, I just don't see it. It'd be one thing if it was say, a character that's usually nicer to Sonic who blew up on him, like say Nicole. But this is Knuckles, and in this particular continuity, this is the same Knuckles who Sonic got into petty fights with for literally no reason at all. Knuckles, the dude who has confirmed anger issues,  yelling at him is honestly one of the least callous thing he could have done, so I don't think it really warrants apologizing for. 

You have the situation with Sonic and Silver, as well as with Nicole and Mina as well, so I don't feel it's as much of a problem as you're making it out to be.

Ehh, I think the whole scene would have just been a lot cleaner without an outright 'It's YOUR fault she's dead! type' statement, just anger, not something that close and personal. That's an archetypical 'wham line'. Knuckles is a petty hot head, but he's still meant to be likeable by this point in the continuity. Take that one quote out and it would have worked alright.

It's just a case of 'don't start what you don't wanna finish'. Archie writers seem to put in this melodrama by reflex and then wonder why their characters are mocked for being soap opera-ish.

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Ehh, I think the whole scene would have just been a lot cleaner without an outright 'It's YOUR fault she's dead! type' statement, just anger, not something that close and personal. Knuckles is a petty hot head, but he's still meant to be likeable. Take that one quote out and it would have worked alright.

It's just a case of 'don't start what you don't wanna finish'.

That's the thing, I don't think saying something like that makes is going all that far... 

It's the same issue I have with blaming Sonic for the entire Zombot situation, we're condemning characters for...making mistakes that are in-line with their characters? At least with the Zombot situation, I can at least understand that since the mistake in question had much larger consequences to be explored, but there are no real consequences to Knuckles getting angry, so I don't really think it's worth exploring all that much.

[E-122-Psi]

11 hours ago, Kuzu said:

That's the thing, I don't think saying something like that makes is going all that far... 

It's the same issue I have with blaming Sonic for the entire Zombot situation, we're condemning characters for...making mistakes that are in-line with their characters? At least with the Zombot situation, I can at least understand that since the mistake in question had much larger consequences to be explored, but there are no real consequences to Knuckles getting angry, so I don't really think it's worth exploring all that much.

Well that's sort of the thing, they have to face consequences for mistakes related to their recurrent characterisations at times because that's how they develop on them. That's how their flaws become flaws. There's no point establishing Sonic is reckless if he never suffers consequences for being reckless for example.

Again the Knuckles case is more that should likely have just been toned down in the first place instead of put into long term with.

[Sonic Fan J]

18 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

Like I think one thing against Sonic sometimes is that he is usually the generic hero with no drive besides saving the day while everyone gets character driven campaigns, but then you see instances where he becomes bored or ambitionless because Eggman retired and his actual standard personality becomes far more compelling and driven. It shows you don't have to change Sonic at all, just play around with what he already is.

This is why I don't like the Sonic vs. Eggman focus as it ignores that Sonic is an adventurer and not a career hero. When people say Sonic has no drive because of this point they demonstrate a total failure of understanding Sonic's character whether t be the writers or the fans.

And speaking of not understanding Sonic's character, @Shadowlax you have demonstrated time and again you want to replace a key component of Sonic's character with something else. This to me demonstrates not liking Sonic as a static character which is fine, but you do so at the expense of Sonic's character traits of never looking back and never regretting anything. Sonic is a character that dwells in the moment and the moment only. It's what makes it baffling how so many people are attracted to him as an individual as his life's philosophy applies to him and his personal sense of justice only. You have to understand that Sonic is a selfish character, not a hero, and acts solely on what he thinks is right and doesn't regret the consequences, but resolves them. You want him to dwell, when Sonic's approach is to solve. He didn't dwell on being transformed into the werehog and the planet splitting apart because his way of life is to instead solve the problem, not regret it. As he tells Chip, it's a good excuse for an adventure which speaks to you of his selfishness. the reason he gets a free pass most times is because he usually can clean up his messes. But if you don't truly understand his character is actually a flawed person to begin with and base him solely off of being something which he is not, a career hero, it becomes little wonder you don't understand Sonic and find his lack of changes boring. And you know that's fine, and you're free to share that you find him boring and explain the reasons why, but you have to lay off the my view is right and yours is wrong approach when you fail to demonstrate a grasp of the character in question. Share your opinions please, I find yours so uniquely alien compared to most fans, but remember to respect that not everyone agrees with you and that you might be missing some important details. You shouldn't need to say IMO with every statement, but you do need to avoid talking like you alone are solely right.

Honestly that bothers me a lot sometimes, there are so many ways to interpret these characters, but there are actually facts about them that we can research from the games and supplemental material that actually answers most of these questions we have. We just need to stop ignoring them and acting like they never existed. It makes our arguments closeminded and makes discourse insufferable. Our viewpoints are not singular and when you share them you have to respect that. But when there are facts, like Sonic being an adventurer or even not a hero (from the Sonic technical files - http://info.sonicretro.org/Original_Story - 

Quote

Character Outline: Sonic the Hedgehog

Approximate age: 18 (but it's kind of hard to tell).

Legendary blue hedgehog with an attitude.

Is the _fastest_ in the land.

Strong sense of justice but irreverent to authority.

Impatient (does not like to stand around).

Not detail-oriented (short attention span).

Likes anything fast.

Loyal to his friends but enjoys his independence.

Street smart, but warm at heart.

Loves beauty, nature, cool music and adventure!

Not a hero, but has lots of self confidence and courage.

But, above all else, he is FAST!

If you take a gander at how Sonic is described here, you'll notice the second to last line tells you he is not a hero. This is a fact that is conveniently ignored and allows the discourse born of the career hero viewpoint that most people have and leads to failures to understand Sonic's character. Even in the games Sonic describes himself as just a guy who likes adventure yet this aspect of his character is ignored by fans in favor of the career hero discourse which leaves Sonic horribly misunderstood and held up to scrutinized on a level he has no business being near. Sonic is no hero, and until people let that go they won't understand him and will talk about him in ignorance and confusion. That needs to stop in my opinion and when it does people will be able to look at Sonic and the franchise in a very different light and see things they previously were simply confused by clearly.

Didn't mean to rant, but can we please avoid contradictions like he's a static character but he should change. Asking for a static character to change demonstrates a lack of understanding of the character, their role, and how they work making most arguments maddening. Maybe talk about how you think he would be better if he wasn't a static character that could spark some interesting conversation. As it stands, I prefer Sonic as a static character and enjoy seeing the adventures he has both unrelated to that and born of it.

 

[E-122-Psi]

I guess the trick there is trying to play on such a dynamic with Sonic without making him feel like a sociopath. Sonic is someone who looks forward, but he can't be apathetic outright about problems of others stemming from their past. He can't outright be like 'Oh that was so two minutes ago' if an action of his has ruined the life of a close friend.

I think this is at least what Lost World got right about Sonic, in that he has a conscience about what consequences his actions cause, but he's characteristically lacking in outright angst. His succinct first approach is to just get back in gear and fix the problem, to the point his quick acceptance of an offered solution kind of offends a cohort of his.

[Kuzu]

5 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I guess the trick there is trying to play on such a dynamic with Sonic without making him feel like a sociopath. Sonic is someone who looks forward, but he can be apathetic about problems with others stemming from their past. He can't outright be like 'Oh that was so two minutes ago' if an action of his has ruined the life of a close friend.

I think this is at least what Lost World got right about Sonic, in that he has a conscience about what consequences his actions cause, but he's characteristically lacking in outright angst. His succinct first approach is to just fix the problem, to the point his quick acceptance of an offered solution kind of offends a cohort of his.

Yea, I feel like Tails is more of the problem in Lost World than Sonic himself; Sonic knows he screwed up, but his first course of action, instead of trusting his closest companion, is to go to his arch enemy. It makes sense on paper, but it does demonstrate a lack of faith in his partner.

Lost World's biggest issue though is never giving Sonic a chance to redeem himself and reestablish his strengths; the game was good at exposing his weaknesses, but after you break something down, you need to build it back up. 

If the game was more about Tails` POV instead of Sonic's, I don't think it would have come off as bad,

[DabigRG]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Yea, I feel like Tails is more of the problem in Lost World than Sonic himself; Sonic knows he screwed up, but his first course of action, instead of trusting his closest companion, is to go to his arch enemy. It makes sense on paper, but it does demonstrate a lack of faith in his partner.

Lost World's biggest issue though is never giving Sonic a chance to redeem himself and reestablish his strengths; the game was good at exposing his weaknesses, but after you break something down, you need to build it back up. 

If the game was more about Tails` POV instead of Sonic's, I don't think it would have come off as bad,

Pretty much.

I mean he did defeat the Deadly Six once they went murder happy, but yeah. That story overall suffered from not being all that cohesive or rather having enough followthrough.

[E-122-Psi]

As I've said before, the Pontac/Griff stories, especially Lost Worlds, feel a bit like a primordial version of the deconstructions Boom was fond of doing, just Boom seemed to have a clearer grasp where to take the characters (or alternatively had their own interpretations) and wasn't as limited by story/game restrictions.

Like from the first few episodes I had this real 'this is like Lost Worlds just they know what they're doing more' vibe.

[Dejimon11]

27 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Yea, I feel like Tails is more of the problem in Lost World than Sonic himself; Sonic knows he screwed up, but his first course of action, instead of trusting his closest companion, is to go to his arch enemy. It makes sense on paper, but it does demonstrate a lack of faith in his partner.

Lost World's biggest issue though is never giving Sonic a chance to redeem himself and reestablish his strengths; the game was good at exposing his weaknesses, but after you break something down, you need to build it back up. 

If the game was more about Tails` POV instead of Sonic's, I don't think it would have come off as bad,

I don't think that he lacked any faith in Tails. It's just that Eggman was the one who built it and that they're both screwed if they don't shut the machine off and take care of the Deadly Six plus Sonic wasn't keen on working with him either. It's also weird when you remember that they've worked together several times on different occasions.

[Kuzu]

 

1 minute ago, Dejimon11 said:

I don't think that he lacked any faith in Tails. It's just that Eggman was the one who built it and that they're both screwed if they don't shut the machine off and take care of the Deadly Six plus Sonic wasn't keen on working with him either. It's also weird when you remember that they've worked together several times on different occasions.

I'm not saying that Sonic was wrong for trusting Eggman, but the fact remains is that is how Tails took it; that Sonic trusted Eggman to get the job done and not Tails. Sonic isn't the type to stop and think things through, which is how the plot got started, but that is how he approaches things. And it's true too, because his first course of action is trusting Eggman.

14 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

As I've said before, the Pontac/Griff stories, especially Lost Worlds, feel a bit like a primordial version of the deconstructions Boom was fond of doing, just Boom seemed to have a clearer grasp where to take the characters (or alternatively had their own interpretations) and wasn't as limited by story/game restrictions.

Like from the first few episodes I had this real 'this is like Lost Worlds just they know what they're doing more' vibe.

My biggest issue with those deconstruction type of stories is that, it really just takes me out of the entire conflict. I can understand if you're the type of person who prefers more flawed characters who are prone to messing up, and I don't mind those types of shows either. But it gets to a point where you have to start wondering why you should invest in watching a show about a bunch of screw ups who can't do anything right. It's good for having a laugh or two, but it hardly makes it an engaging story to follow to me. It's good for like, posting a meme clip onto Twitter for quick likes and that's about it. 

When something is deconstructed, I generally expect to see it reconstructed after a while too; ok, you've broken these characters down and exposed their weaknesses, now should be the time to reestablish their strengths. Except that doesn't really happen all that often. 

I'm a pretty optimistic person, so I tend to prefer works that aren't TOO cynical and downbeat. 

[E-122-Psi]

29 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

 

I'm not saying that Sonic was wrong for trusting Eggman, but the fact remains is that is how Tails took it; that Sonic trusted Eggman to get the job done and not Tails. Sonic isn't the type to stop and think things through, which is how the plot got started, but that is how he approaches things. And it's true too, because his first course of action is trusting Eggman.

My biggest issue with those deconstruction type of stories is that, it really just takes me out of the entire conflict. I can understand if you're the type of person who prefers more flawed characters who are prone to messing up, and I don't mind those types of shows either. But it gets to a point where you have to start wondering why you should invest in watching a show about a bunch of screw ups who can't do anything right. It's good for having a laugh or two, but it hardly makes it an engaging story to follow to me. It's good for like, posting a meme clip onto Twitter for quick likes and that's about it. 

When something is deconstructed, I generally expect to see it reconstructed after a while too; ok, you've broken these characters down and exposed their weaknesses, now should be the time to reestablish their strengths. Except that doesn't really happen all that often. 

I'm a pretty optimistic person, so I tend to prefer works that aren't TOO cynical and downbeat. 

Oh yes I get that, it's why I think SatAm Sonic's gets weary after a while. THey keep doing the same parables with him and thus he NEVER learns to keep his ego in check, even when other people's well being is at cost and he gets told a thousand times to knock it off, he never even tones down his carelessness. At the same time though I don't like interpretations that NEVER do this sort of thing. Sonic X played on Sonic's flaws next to NEVER, which made him feel a bit one note and infallible. The key is balance, having something that is established enough to deconstruct odd times in the first place, making for a character that is likeable and competent but still has a flawed side to make them three dimensional and enough moments of weakness to make them feel fallible without going making the same mistakes an absurdly stupid number of times.

I think it's also the fact that, intentional or not, these sorts of defects come inherently after a while. Even in Sonic X, Sonic is rather cocky and self serving, just it almost never comes back to bite him. You don't have these points it all comes crashing down and they suffer humility then they start to feel enabled and unlikeable.

I use Sally as another example often because Sally is a character who writers insisted was humble and well meaning and when told otherwise tried to fix it, but their approach of storytelling meant that Sally was always kind of inherently grouchy, priggish and hypocritical, it's just something that came about her character archetype and how they developed her struggles and role, no matter how much writers denied it and didn't like openly playing on that 'ugly side' of her. Trying to pretend she wasn't and not having it come ever back on her really just made it kind of worse since it meant it never got humanised and moderated.

[DabigRG]

35 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

I don't think that he lacked any faith in Tails. It's just that Eggman was the one who built it and that they're both screwed if they don't shut the machine off and take care of the Deadly Six plus Sonic wasn't keen on working with him either.

Pretty much the reason people generally dislike Tails in that game: he's overly passive aggressive and hostile about something fairly logical and that Sonic himself more than once expressed his reluctance over.

35 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

It's also weird when you remember that they've worked together several times on different occasions.

Well that screams of(and probably contributed to) the writers' admittance to having little background on the series beyond what SonicTeam gave and that they looked up on Youtube & maybe wikis.

Which is still a case of "wut" when you think about it.

[E-122-Psi]

I feel like it was the side effect of Tails being Mr Exposition for so long, and not having a very distinct amount of quirks and flaws besides being generically cowardly for odd gags. They didn't really know how to start a natural rift between him and Sonic. I mean Sonic is pretty straight forward even if you aren't really researched with the series, he's cocky as hell, of course he'll have overconfidence or impulsiveness as a vice. What can you really give Tails at first glance of his modern incarnation?

I could argue that short scene where Tails' invention with Cubot goes wrong and he is too distracted to notice did better establishing a flawed side for Tails' central personality than the main story (especially since that was the element Boom seemed to expand upon most of the time).

[DabigRG]

50 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

 

I'm not saying that Sonic was wrong for trusting Eggman, but the fact remains is that is how Tails took it; that Sonic trusted Eggman to get the job done and not Tails. Sonic isn't the type to stop and think things through, which is how the plot got started, but that is how he approaches things. And it's true too, because his first course of action is trusting Eggman.

My biggest issue with those deconstruction type of stories is that, it really just takes me out of the entire conflict. I can understand if you're the type of person who prefers more flawed characters who are prone to messing up, and I don't mind those types of shows either. But it gets to a point where you have to start wondering why you should invest in watching a show about a bunch of screw ups who can't do anything right. It's good for having a laugh or two, but it hardly makes it an engaging story to follow to me. It's good for like, posting a meme clip onto Twitter for quick likes and that's about it. 

When something is deconstructed, I generally expect to see it reconstructed after a while too; ok, you've broken these characters down and exposed their weaknesses, now should be the time to reestablish their strengths. Except that doesn't really happen all that often. 

I'm a pretty optimistic person, so I tend to prefer works that aren't TOO cynical and downbeat. 

Yeah, that's sorta where I'm at too at times. Deconstruction is important because it involves fleshing out things or traits people might take for granted, but the thing is I wanna say deconstruction is primarily of a genre or archetype. It can be the theme of a plot or story just fine and it's usually a good/great way to have things be interesting and engaging, but you do need to resolve the topic of said deconstruction for good or for ill.

In Lost World's case, it used Sonic's cockiness and tendency to rush as a critical plot point, brought attention to it, had there be repercussions due to it, and even had Sonic himself admit it and react to damage it's wrought...but then it just stops and doesn't actually reach a destination. Hell, Zavok doesn't even mock his hand in everything that's going wrong to my recollection.

13 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I feel like it was the side effect of Tails being Mr Exposition for so long, and not having a very distinct amount of quirks and flaws besides being generically cowardly for odd gags. They didn't really know how to start a natural rift between him and Sonic. I mean Sonic is pretty straight forward even if you aren't really researched with the series, he's cocky as hell, of course he'll have overconfidence or impulsiveness as a vice. What can you really give Tails at first glance of his modern incarnation?

I could argue that short scene where Tails' invention with Cubot goes wrong and he is too distracted to notice did better establishing a flawed side for Tails' central personality than the main story (especially since that was the element Boom seemed to expand upon most of the time).

Kinda shows the apparent struggles/risks of emphasizing an introverted/Blue Oni character vs. a extroverted/Red one for writers and/or the audience. Tails is technically ambiverted, but generally the soft kind and even disregarding that, I'm not sure where that factor falls.

What I found interesting is that his spat around Eggman seems a little reminiscent of his initial meeting with Wave. His tinkering skills and helpfulness to Sonic are things he puts a lot of energy into, so it makes some sense that that's where he can be angered.

[Kuzu]

27 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Oh yes I get that, it's why I think SatAm Sonic's gets weary after a while. THey keep doing the same parables with him and thus he NEVER learns to keep his ego in check, even when other people's well being is at cost and he gets told a thousand times to knock it off, he never even tones down his carelessness. At the same time though I don't like interpretations that NEVER do this sort of thing. Sonic X played on Sonic's flaws next to NEVER, which made him feel a bit one note and infallible. The key is balance, having something that is established enough to deconstruct odd times in the first place, making for a character that is likeable and competent but still has a flawed side to make them three dimensional and enough moments of weakness to make them feel fallible without going making the same mistakes an absurdly stupid number of times.

I think it's also the fact that, intentional or not, these sorts of defects come inherently after a while. Even in Sonic X, Sonic is rather cocky and self serving, just it almost never comes back to bite him. You don't have these points it all comes crashing down and they suffer humility then they start to feel enabled and unlikeable.

I use Sally as another example often because Sally is a character who writers insisted was humble and well meaning and when told otherwise tried to fix it, but their approach of storytelling meant that Sally was always kind of inherently grouchy, priggish and hypocritical, it's just something that came about her character archetype and how they developed her struggles and role, no matter how much writers denied it and didn't like openly playing on that 'ugly side' of her. Trying to pretend she wasn't and not having it come ever back on her really just made it kind of worse since it meant it never got humanised and moderated.

I suppose when you get down to it, a lot of these medias simply aren't all that well written to get the most out of their characterization, so there's always going to be some type of defect. 

This is especially true because the series has gone on for so long, people's perceptions and interpretations of them are going to change over time.

I thought Sonic was pretty great in Sonic X, but I can understand how someone can read into him being kind of an uncaring sociopath given his lack of "human" qualities.

16 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I feel like it was the side effect of Tails being Mr Exposition for so long, and not having a very distinct amount of quirks and flaws besides being generically cowardly for odd gags. They didn't really know how to start a natural rift between him and Sonic. I mean Sonic is pretty straight forward even if you aren't really researched with the series, he's cocky as hell, of course he'll have overconfidence or impulsiveness as a vice. What can you really give Tails at first glance of his modern incarnation?

I could argue that short scene where Tails' invention with Cubot goes wrong and he is too distracted to notice did better establishing a flawed side for Tails' central personality than the main story (especially since that was the element Boom seemed to expand upon most of the time).

Tails most recurrent characterization is being the more introverted and logical between him and Sonic, but lacking Sonic's bold confidence to act.

So you can start from there; I hate how Lost World did it, but he's a condescending dick there because of his intellect. Because Tails is so smart, he can have trouble communicating with others who aren't as intelligent as him.

He's absent minded as he gets so into his inventions, he forgets crucial details (like installing landing gear into his plane...)

 

It's just that a lot of the time, his flaws aren't used in a negative sense outside of a gag or two.

[Slashy]

Shadow the Hedgehog is still great and was not meant to be taken that seriously.

[thumbs13]

2 hours ago, Slashy said:

Shadow the Hedgehog is still great and was not meant to be taken that seriously.

Define "not meant to be taken that seriously." I'm pretty sure we were supposed to feel something when Shadow killed Eggman or joined black doom or wished he was never born or whatever. The problem with Shadow was that it took itself too seriously, if anything.

[DabigRG]

16 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

Define "not meant to be taken that seriously." I'm pretty sure we were supposed to feel something when Shadow killed Eggman or joined black doom or wished he was never born or whatever. The problem with Shadow was that it took itself too seriously, if anything.

I wasn't sure if they meant the character or the game.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

I suddenly have a little more free time in my schedule so I've started replaying Sonic Lost World. I tried it about a year or so ago for the first time and I could only stomach the controls for about an hour before I put it down. I gave it another try today. Once you get used to the controls, (which are quite bad) then the games real charm comes out.

Lost World is definitely not a bad game, there are a lot of good ideas put into this in the badniks and stage variety. Putting Sonic back into a real 3D space so more levels could be easily designed around him, it was the right choice to make. I still agree with Iizuka, its a better decision than sticking with the boost formula which peaked with Gens but doesn't really have any more depth to explore. 

Whatever the next 3D formula does, I hope it naturally incorporates the parkour mechanics, but in a much smoother way. Sonic games controls should always be fairly simple and feel very smooth and fluid. That is one key reason adventure fans will defend those games to death and theyre right. I'd rather control SA1's Sonic than the rest of the 3D games, if we're just talking control. We need that smoothness back, but with a lot less twitchyness. 

Also, no run button ever again. I find myself holding it constantly. There's never a reason not to. I think they did that because they didn't know how to handle level design in 3D with momentum mechanics, thinking Sonic moves too fast, so they wanted a way to control the players speed and platforming a little more. Its just not the best idea, the way it actually manifests itself. 

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, thumbs13 said:

Define "not meant to be taken that seriously." I'm pretty sure we were supposed to feel something when Shadow killed Eggman or joined black doom or wished he was never born or whatever. The problem with Shadow was that it took itself too seriously, if anything.

It's the deflector of criticism.

When someone looks at something like Shadow the Hedgehog and says that, they have no actual defense of it.

[Sonic Fan J]

10 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I guess the trick there is trying to play on such a dynamic with Sonic without making him feel like a sociopath. Sonic is someone who looks forward, but he can't be apathetic outright about problems of others stemming from their past. He can't outright be like 'Oh that was so two minutes ago' if an action of his has ruined the life of a close friend.

I think this is at least what Lost World got right about Sonic, in that he has a conscience about what consequences his actions cause, but he's characteristically lacking in outright angst. His succinct first approach is to just get back in gear and fix the problem, to the point his quick acceptance of an offered solution kind of offends a cohort of his.

Which is usually where Sonic's next step is to try and rectify the mistake he made. If we acknowledge that he doesn't dwell, but acts, then you realize he does care quite a bit, but his never look back mentality and also shortsightedness become points of abrasion with those around him. As you point out, Lost World actually attempts to explore the flaws naturally born of his approach, but they jack up Tails in the process and try to make Sonic dwell and regret when he doesn't do those two things. Typically, Sonic's ill seen temper should actually be more explored in those moments when he is expected to regret as that shows you that he does have an emotional response but that he is quicker to act than to think which plays into his shortsightedness. It's important to remember that Sonic is regarded as a her due to the consequences of his actions and that when the consequences of his actions are bad he takes immediate to rectify them.

Frankly, Sonic is a very unusual character that a lot of people try to pigeon hole into a mold that he isn't built for instead of actually looking at what type of character he is supposed to be. It's why for as much praise as BOOM! Sonic gets as a deconstruction, it's disregard for his love of life and adventure for the sake of the sitcom feels like it's deconstructing the perception of him as a career hero, which he is not, instead of what he actually is. It doesn't surprise me though as Sonic is a very different character type than he appears to be at first glance and most of the nuance, subtlety, and depth he possesses is completely glanced over for wrongly looking at him as a career hero. Again, it's why I yearn for more stories of his that do not focus on his conflicts with Eggman as then you have to static characters bouncing off of each other which really isn't engaging beyond introducing them. They need a dynamic world to react to them and highlight them so you can see how they function and the types of characters that they actually are. Though comically I think Eggman is actually a lot easier to understand than Sonic because it is far more difficult to mistake the type of character he is compared to Sonic.

[Shadowlax]

 

 

 

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And you know that's fine, and you're free to share that you find him boring and explain the reasons why, but you have to lay off the my view is right and yours is wrong approach when you fail to demonstrate a grasp of the character in question.

So I had an argument here for your other statments that i have since deleted. Not that I don't stand by it, but if was centered around the context of the argument that was being had before you joined in, in the comic. And that isn't fair to you, because i genuinely believe the sonic in that comic or in that arc is painted more as a career hero. In the book in general, and I don't think would like that. It would have you arguing for that and that's a weird position to put you in.I don't really think you would argee with some of the narrative decisions to set up that story. So why have you argue those points. Seems mean

But I want to speak on this. Not only do I not fail to grap the character, in this argument I think I understand very well. Because i'm content with acknowledging not just who he is, but why he is and what that means. And more so what that says , and where he stands in the greater context of childrens media.

Your argument begins and ends at " Well he doesn't regret or dwell" mine is, how does that make for an interesting character. What does that mean in a narrative, and what does that say about sonic. And I think in our day an age, bad things.We live in a day where our heroes even our more simplistic ones are more sympathetic than ever. Sonic's lack of dwelling makes him come off flat at best, and at worst assholsh . Sonic being boring or kind of an asshole these days are two very common criticisms we see of the character. I ask the question, is this lack of regret what makes sonic sonic, does he need it.

And I say no.

Freedom of choice, is what makes sonic sonic and fighting for that.

The lack of regret is just an unnecessary shounen-ism that can be gotten rid of. As long as there is freedom of choice, and sonic fights for that. Sonic will be sonic.

 

[E-122-Psi]

While Boom Sonic is a bit too lethargic and tied down to one locale, I do appreciate they show one component of him in detail (as comically as it is done), that without a bad guy or dilemma, he actually gets rather restless and without a drive. Too many interpretations have him kinda just 'turn off' and chill until another bad guy comes but Boom Sonic for all his more jaded qualities NEEDS some adventure in his life, which makes his heroics seem like less an occupation and more his own personal agenda.