Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Sonario]

Not exactly as unpopular as some opinions around, but I really love Boost gameplay and the Boost mechanic. It really shows off how fast Sonic can be and blazing through levels is just super thrilling. I do see the point of the "speed should be earned, not given" thing, but the ability to enjoy Sonic's speed at any time is pretty fun for me.

However, I would also like having the style of the Adventure games incorporated with the speed of the Boost games. I believe a good balance is possible if you take the time to refine and fuse the styles together.

[Shadowlax]

No no nope. Nevermind, just realized this gonna go in circles. We have a disagreement with the nature of the narrative of sa2. You think all that, cool. Sorry for taking up forum space
 

 

 

[Dr. Mechano]

My (un?)popular opinion: I really want playable Eggman in a story capacity, like a platformer or RPG or something, not just a sports/racing/party spinoff title.

As a Mario fan, I feel like whenever we get to play as Bowser in an actual adventure (Super Mario RPG, Super Paper Mario, Yoshi's Island DS, Bowser's Inside Story, etc.), it's awesome. Getting to take the main series antagonist for a spin ourselves and unleash his might upon hordes of enemies feels incredibly empowering. And it's been a long time since we've gotten that with Eggman.

SA2, Advance 3, and Chronicles. Those are really the only "adventure" scenarios where we get to play as Eggman, and in the latter two it's a pretty limited capacity. I'm not saying it needs to happen every game or anything; certainly not. But I for one would be 100% for another game where we get to blast our way across the land as Dr. Eggman. It's been over a decade since the last time, and I say we're overdue to see story-playable Eggman again.

[Kuzu]

I feel like the reason we don't see a playable Eggman often is because, unlike Bowser who is pretty benign as a villain more often than not, Eggman is in fact a very dangerous individual. 

Even in the comics when he was the main focus of an arc (Scrambled and Eggman's Dozen, great arcs btw, I fully recommend) he was still pretty obviously framed as a villain protagonist as opposed to Bowser, who is pretty much an Antihero whenever he's on the good guys side. 

So in order for a game about Eggman to work, you would need to frame it in a way where him winning is considered a good thing...or least, the lesser of two evils. 

[DabigRG]

48 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

My (un?)popular opinion: I really want playable Eggman in a story capacity, like a platformer or RPG or something, not just a sports/racing/party spinoff title.

As a Mario fan, I feel like whenever we get to play as Bowser in an actual adventure (Super Mario RPG, Super Paper Mario, Yoshi's Island DS, Bowser's Inside Story, etc.), it's awesome. Getting to take the main series antagonist for a spin ourselves and unleash his might upon hordes of enemies feels incredibly empowering. And it's been a long time since we've gotten that with Eggman.

SA2, Advance 3, and Chronicles. Those are really the only "adventure" scenarios where we get to play as Eggman, and in the latter two it's a pretty limited capacity. I'm not saying it needs to happen every game or anything; certainly not. But I for one would be 100% for another game where we get to blast our way across the land as Dr. Eggman. It's been over a decade since the last time, and I say we're overdue to see story-playable Eggman again.

 

30 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I feel like the reason we don't see a playable Eggman often is because, unlike Bowser who is pretty benign as a villain more often than not, Eggman is in fact a very dangerous individual. 

Even in the comics when he was the main focus of an arc (Scrambled and Eggman's Dozen, great arcs btw, I fully recommend) he was still pretty obviously framed as a villain protagonist as opposed to Bowser, who is pretty much an Antihero whenever he's on the good guys side. 

So in order for a game about Eggman to work, you would need to frame it in a way where him winning is considered a good thing...or least, the lesser of two evils. 

That is true.

Hopefully, if the cries for more playable characters and/or an Adventure remake don't fully go through, they can at least throw us a curveball by having Eggman be the second playable character for the first time in forever.

I think another straightforward explanation would be how Eggman's explicitly out out to conquer and change nature in favor of technology. Bowser does invasions and takeovers himself, but that usually isn't a very widespread thing beyond the Mushroom Kingdom. 

[E-122-Psi]

I think it really depends on depiction for Eggman. I mean Eggman tends to have more selfishly evil intent than Bowser but it varies whether the threat level is larger. In the Galaxy games and first Paper Mario for example Bowser was pretty damn menacing in spite of his cartoonier personality and intent offsetting it.

Eggman being a darker villain varies. Sure he's more sinister and less redeemable in the comics, but Boom follows a very similar mechanic to Bowser, having more benign plans that he often has to clean up after they go wrong (often with the heroes' help) and this formula generally happening enough times that their interactions are hilariously casual. Games Eggman is often the middle road of this, more genuinely fearsome and less approachable as a person, but having similar comedic pathos and a tendency for his plans to backfire onto him. His restrictions in evil tend to vary from title to title, though they tend to go with the idea that he has SOME redeeming qualities, even if his malicious ones excel the petty jerkassery of his Boom incarnation.

Truth be told they could have easily made Eggman playable throughout Lost World under the premise they had. One thing to note however is that Eggman functioning as a playable is more complicated than Bowser. Bowser's a big fire breathing powerhouse of a beast, loads of potential in playstyle there from the get go. Eggman is pretty much a cartoon human of normal ability, reliant on gadgets and tools to do his bidding. Some cases do well implementing this into gameplay, especially SA2, but they generally need a complete gameplay makeover from Sonic's standard mechanics.

[Wraith]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

I feel like the reason we don't see a playable Eggman often is because, unlike Bowser who is pretty benign as a villain more often than not, Eggman is in fact a very dangerous individual. 

Even in the comics when he was the main focus of an arc (Scrambled and Eggman's Dozen, great arcs btw, I fully recommend) he was still pretty obviously framed as a villain protagonist as opposed to Bowser, who is pretty much an Antihero whenever he's on the good guys side. 

So in order for a game about Eggman to work, you would need to frame it in a way where him winning is considered a good thing...or least, the lesser of two evils. 

I'd argue that it has nothing to do with this and more to do with the fact that Bowser is agile like Mario but Eggman sn't agile like Sonic. Most of Sonic's gameplay concepts don't carry over to him inherently. They can BS some plot reason together after they clear that hurdle.

[Kuzu]

16 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'd argue that it has nothing to do with this and more to do with the fact that Bowser is agile like Mario but Eggman sn't agile like Sonic. Most of Sonic's gameplay concepts don't carry over to him inherently. They can BS some plot reason together after they clear that hurdle.

I was under the assumption that Mechano was referring to plot and character related reasons more than anything, but yea this is definitely the biggest hurdle. Eggman isn't as physically abled as the entire cast, and relies on machinery. 

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

So in order for a game about Eggman to work, you would need to frame it in a way where him winning is considered a good thing...or least, the lesser of two evils. 

Well, yeah, just introduce some outside threat that's dangerous to both him and the rest of the world, like the other times he's been playable/allied with the heroes.

9 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'd argue that it has nothing to do with this and more to do with the fact that Bowser is agile like Mario but Eggman sn't agile like Sonic. Most of Sonic's gameplay concepts don't carry over to him inherently. They can BS some plot reason together after they clear that hurdle.

Just slap some rocket skates on him and he could be zooming around just like Sonic. Hell, wouldn't even be the first time.

Really though they'd be better off making a spinoff focused entirely on Eggman, with gameplay that naturally follows from the kinds of things he usually does, than trying to adapt him into Sonic's style of gameplay. The odds of Sega going for a character-based spinoff like that aren't great these days, but I'd say there's a better chance they'd try it with Eggman than anyone else, unless they were going to take a second shot with Shadow.

[NegaMix]

Re: Playable Eggman - From a plot standpoint, maybe do the old Hero/Dark split but instead of the stories happening simultaneously (like in SA2), have Eggman's story take place before Sonic's, detailing how he manages to take over... wherever it is he wants to take over this week. (If anyone's played Transformers: War for Cybertron, think something along that structure.)

[Wraith]

13 hours ago, Diogenes said:

 

Really though they'd be better off making a spinoff focused entirely on Eggman, with gameplay that naturally follows from the kinds of things he usually does, than trying to adapt him into Sonic's style of gameplay. The odds of Sega going for a character-based spinoff like that aren't great these days, but I'd say there's a better chance they'd try it with Eggman than anyone else, unless they were going to take a second shot with Shadow.

I'd argue that Knuckles is worth a shot or maybe a smaller game with Tails but overall yeah Eggman is their best bet. If they wanted to try some completely unique gameplay mechanics I'd be down for it but putting him in the same game as Sonic seems like a recipe for disaster unless he was playing a 'special stage' level of bit part in the mechanics. At that point that's probably not what the Eggman stans are wanting though so just give him his own production. The guy can invent anything so the possibilities are limitless for gameplay.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, NegaMetallix said:

Re: Playable Eggman - From a plot standpoint, maybe do the old Hero/Dark split but instead of the stories happening simultaneously (like in SA2), have Eggman's story take place before Sonic's, detailing how he manages to take over... wherever it is he wants to take over this week. (If anyone's played Transformers: War for Cybertron, think something along that structure.)

Honestly, it's another area where Sonic Forces wasted a good opportunity.

 

On 5/11/2019 at 11:42 AM, DabigRG said:

So a sorta recent review on Sonic Forces popped up on my home page and during the prelude of the possibilities implied by the game's marketing, the Youtuber made an interesting point.What if the game had essentially been a spiritual successor to Sonic Adventure 2, with it's Hero Side and Dark Side stories; or better yet, how Sonic Riders and Zero Gravity used the Babylon Story to explain the backstory of the story's focus? This in turn would've made the game have a main story through The Resistance's fight to take back their world and an Eggman Empire campaign that could've followed the development of the duplicated Phantom Ruby protoypes, the enmeshing of [the real] Shadow and Zavok, and the Rebirth of Infinite.

 

[E-122-Psi]

Sonic Forces all around was just wasted potential. An interesting idea that was lethargically done in almost every area.

I feel like after the complaints issued towards Next Gen and to a lesser degree its predecessors, SEGA is still afraid to branch out from simplistic Sonic fare, not getting it might have just been their execution and over-saturation of their gimmicks beforehand that made them unpopular (of course other playable characters will become divisive if you try to insert a DOZEN of them at the expense of the main character and make an enforced roulette out of them, while also failing to properly polish them so they aren't even enjoyable in the first place). Right now, they're just making the same mistakes with new stuff like classic Sonic and the Wisps, stuffing in a concept that works every possible opportunity, even when it doesn't fit.

Fans want chocolate so we'll give them chocolate. For every stinking meal.

The one solace is that Forces did at least dabble with bringing back a variation in mechanics and characters, like the custom character and Shadow DLC. It's small stuff but it's at least smidgeons of respecting a fuller picture.

[Kuzu]

I'd argue the problem isn't getting too much of one thing, it's that the things they're giving us simply isn't well made.

Doesn't matter what food they give us if it tastes like shit.

[E-122-Psi]

5 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I'd argue the problem isn't getting too much of one thing, it's that the things they're giving us simply isn't well made.

Doesn't matter what food they give us if it tastes like shit.

Overuse certainly doesn't help in some cases however. Of course the multiple character market will end up undercooked if you try to make a dozen at once for example.

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Overuse certainly doesn't help in some cases however. Of course the multiple character market will end up undercooked if you try to make a dozen at once for example.

Sonic's been the only playable character for over 10 years now and with an exception or two, the gameplay has been just as undercooked and lackluster. The problem was never the amount of characters, Sega are just horrible at polishing these games.

[Volcan Pacaya]

16 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I feel like the reason we don't see a playable Eggman often is because, unlike Bowser who is pretty benign as a villain more often than not, Eggman is in fact a very dangerous individual. 

Even games where you play as Bowser cheat by changing his personality into a somewhat ineffective, lovable goofball (who talks to posters).

1 hour ago, E-122-Psi said:

I feel like after the complaints issued towards Next Gen and to a lesser degree its predecessors, SEGA is still afraid to branch out from simplistic Sonic fare, not getting it might have just been their execution and over-saturation of their gimmicks beforehand that made them unpopular

"Sonic Adventure is bad." is an internet meme. The game was highly praised when it came out in 1998.  Unpolished and buggy? Yeah, but that was SEGAs fault. The lesson SEGA should have learned from 06 was "maybe continuing to rush these games out the door before they're finished is a bad idea."

It's Sonic Team that should be afraid of trying anything remotely ambitious because they know that SEGA execs will release their unfinished game on a whim.

Honestly, and I say this as a huge Sonic fan, were I a member of Sonic Team I'd have quit long ago.

[Wraith]

5 minutes ago, Volcan Pacaya said:

Even games where you play as Bowser cheat by changing his personality into a somewhat ineffective, lovable goofball (who talks to posters).

 

I thought that was just his personality

[AzureLakeSanic]

My opinion: Sega shoulda brought the Archie characters in the games and established chemistry between Amy, Sally, and Mina. I wish they could've been the answer to Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles.

[Kuzu]

15 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I thought that was just his personality

In the RPG's and spin offs (where he's at his most ineffectual), but in the main games he's somewhat generic.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

Sonic's been the only playable character for over 10 years now and with an exception or two, the gameplay has been just as undercooked and lackluster. The problem was never the amount of characters, Sega are just horrible at polishing these games.

34 minutes ago, Volcan Pacaya said:

"Sonic Adventure is bad." is an internet meme. The game was highly praised when it came out in 1998.  Unpolished and buggy? Yeah, but that was SEGAs fault. The lesson SEGA should have learned from 06 was "maybe continuing to rush these games out the door before they're finished is a bad idea."

It's Sonic Team that should be afraid of trying anything remotely ambitious because they know that SEGA execs will release their unfinished game on a whim.

Honestly, and I say this as a huge Sonic fan, were I a member of Sonic Team I'd have quit long ago.

He's talking about the multiple characters feature in general.

34 minutes ago, Volcan Pacaya said:

Even games where you play as Bowser cheat by changing his personality into a somewhat ineffective, lovable goofball (who talks to posters).

What now?.

28 minutes ago, AzureLakeSanic said:

My opinion: Sega shoulda brought the Archie characters in the games and established chemistry between Amy, Sally, and Mina. I wish they could've been the answer to Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles.

Who would be who in that scenario?

[AzureLakeSanic]

Sally would be Tails, since they're both smart. Mina would be Knuckles? I don't see the similarities between them...

Like you said before, this won't work out.

[DabigRG]

7 minutes ago, AzureLakeSanic said:

Sally would be Tails, since they're both smart. Mina would be Knuckles? I don't see the similarities between them...

Like you said before, this won't work out.

In the order you had it in, yeah. Unless you develop her and/or deliberately pair them to uncover a hidden common ground.

You could also do Mina&Sonic and Amy&Knuckles(speedsters and heavy hitters) or Mina&Tails and Sally&Knuckles(youths trying to prove themselves and duty bound paranoiacs). 

[AzureLakeSanic]

I never thought of it that way.

[E-122-Psi]

2 hours ago, AzureLakeSanic said:

My opinion: Sega shoulda brought the Archie characters in the games and established chemistry between Amy, Sally, and Mina. I wish they could've been the answer to Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles.

Sally struggled to have a chemistry with Amy and really any SEGA character besides Sonic for twenty years in the comics, what makes you think the games could do it?

I have to say that, I don't really buy into the idea of whitewashing Sally and Amy as friends with no hang ups. Maybe not bitter rivals, but surely there'd be SOME conflict going on there. They also turned down the opportunity to give a more developed dynamic between her and Mina before she was retired.