Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[DabigRG]

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

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Both are preferable to his current comic incarnation though

And the games?

[Shadowlax]

Just now, DabigRG said:

And the games?

Depends on the game technically speaking they are both preferential to the games because on a technical level, the writings just better than the game. I love sa2, but have you heard the delivery on those lines or just the giant plot holes and stuff.

That being considered, if we don't look at technical writing. I hold post reboot shadow above all else. He is the perfect version of that character, its what cements my belief while I like Ian sometimes sega may actually need to push him away from things to make this series the best it can be. Just you know...not too far. The pre reboot under ian isn't the worst by any means, but it ranks below like 06 , or battle or heroes or sa2. It just feels like Ian trying to end this character and put him in a place and that feels unsatisfactory to me, its a mascot series that's gonna exist in perpetuity give him new interesting problems. Post reboot did that, it did it very well , while keeping him character.

That moment when Shadow is fighting Knuckles and you think he's gonna say some edgy shit and he's like " You can find a new path, I found a new path " because shadow doesn't actually hate knuckles he seems to respect him a great deal but is pragmatic and out of concern,  frames everything before that very different that's great. That says so much about his person and who he is and how dynamic of a character he is. Its actually the best and I hope one day comic shadow can return to that

[DabigRG]

I was referring to since Colors, but that's fine.

And to be fair with Preboot, Shadow was around quite a bit during the first 20 or so issues due to a combination of where Mr. Penders left things and the character work he wanted to do that needed to come off of that. He'd even pop into conflicts that had nothing to do with him like Enerjak and the Suppression Squad just because it was cool to have him show up. The latter though ended up feeding into some crossing over to start Universe and then gradually brought him further in line with where he was in the games via Team Dark so they could have stories together. It only around Geoffrey's betrayal that he fell to the wayside and that's more because the main book was tighter about the ongoing arcs on top of Universe being a roulette anyway, leaving little to no room for him to appear outside of cameos.

[Shadowlax]

3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I was referring to since Colors, but that's fine.

Oh i mean, he kind of hasn't been much of a character to judge. I would argue this is a lot of everyone who isn't sonic or eggman.

• There's colors DS who , he's just there doesn't get to do much. Nothing of note
• The game that caused the pendering. I don't really like any of the characters and how they are in that game.
• Generations, from my understanding shadow doesn't actually show up until the end of the game. So you fight sa2 shadow and then normal shadow shows up, he does nothing and then stands around doing nothing at a birthday party.
• Boom, I mean he's bad but its effectively a different person. I think that series reflects more on what sega's intentions were going forward ( one thing i'm going to address in a second ), but its a different person.
• TSR , he's fine. Competitive cuz its a racing game.

So all in all , I prefer comic shadow because he's a character that actually gets to do things and be a character , usually. Comic shadow isn't perfect, Ian Flynn on occasion likes to use shadow more as a plot device than a character, but he still gets to be a character there instead of not.

But actually this isn't all in all. I forgot forces. Forces is weird. Shadow in the dlc actually gets to be a character, and its a weird version, its a mixture of SA2 shadow and Shth shadow. He's jokey and snarkey but also aggressive and extremely direct, there's not quite enough to gleam what this shadow could be. But on its surface its interesting. But my problems with that games " shadow " is less about shadow and more so team dark. Team dark isn't really a team in that game, shadow is missing for 6 months and rouge doesn't seem to like care, like other people are confused as to why he's evil, but rouge doesn't say a word. And both of them just let omega just rot in the dirt for 6 months. To be fair that games story the 6 months thing was added, but even in being a week if the guy she saw do everything he did in the past teamed up with eggman to do fascism she should have...words...but... no. And shadow should be trying to i dunno salavage his robotic best friend's coprse....but no.

So its weird, shadow is weirdly kinda good and interesting in spots in that game, team dark is just ...not even a team. Which is reflective of how sega at the moment feels. Remember the intentions I mentioned, I think sonic boom is the first time it was made very clear that at least SOA has no interest in team dark just shadow, and I think that interest is more pervasive throughout sega than I thought. And I have a supicion as to why that might be , but that's off topic. I have rambled enough.

 

3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

And to be fair with Preboot, Shadow was around quite a bit during the first 20 or so issues due to a combination of where Mr. Penders left things and the character work he wanted to do that needed to come off of that. He'd even pop into conflicts that had nothing to do with him like Enerjak and the Suppression Squad just because it was cool to have him show up. The latter though ended up feeding into some crossing over to start Universe and then gradually brought him further in line with where he was in the games via Team Dark so they could have stories together. It only around Geoffrey's betrayal that he fell to the wayside and that's more because the main book was tighter about the ongoing arcs on top of Universe being a roulette anyway, leaving little to no room for him to appear outside of cameos.

My issue wasn't really that I was just talking about how he was characterized. There's a shadow like meter or spectrum, or line.

On one end its " actually he's a sweet heart and he's fine now look at him smiling he has friend" and on the other end is " Darkness , rage, explosions , anime violence" and he's specifically neither of those things, he's both and he's in the middle. And I felt like pre-boot shadow tended to lean more towards the first thing in a way that was unsatisfactory. And reboot shadow is more so both

[Kuzu]

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

I prefer post reboot

Prebiotic is imo too touchey feeley. Kinda feels out of character sometimes and attempt to give his character and ending that I myself and I feel many others didn't ask for. But I understand why folks like it

Post reboot is more like his 06 incarnation and imo more accurate and interesting. Hes kind of a shut off dick, he doesn't know how to talk to people, he's quick to tell you about yourself and why you are wrong.  But generally not only a good person,  but one the best and often means well. And that dichotomy to me is fun.

Both are preferable to his current comic incarnation though

I like pre-reboot because he's able to emote beyond just being a shut off dick. Sometimes it's good for characters to have different emotions 

[Red Hot Jack]

I think 2 worlds works well because of what the Sonic movie did.

It just worked, different planets, rings as portals, etc. I don't see any issues.

[Shadowlax]

14 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I like pre-reboot because he's able to emote beyond just being a shut off dick. Sometimes it's good for characters to have different emotions 

He does emote post reboot, but different strokes.

He actually emotes a lot, I would argue more interestingly than pre-reboot. His emotional outbursts, insecurities,  what have you resonate more there imo than before

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

He does emote post reboot, but different strokes.

He actually emotes a lot, I would argue more interestingly than pre-reboot. His emotional outbursts, insecurities,  what have you resonate more there imo than before

All of that is present in the pre-reboot.

[Shadowlax]

2 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

All of that is present in the pre-reboot.

Its not the same or presented the same. Which is my problems.  The story isn't its parts and how its told, and how its told post reboot imo is better. Not just for shadow but for everyone he interacted with. It was more reflective who his character was and note the finished romanticizetion that fans thought he was. It enbraced his flaws and insecuruties in ways that just never happened prebiotic. Because that story was being told different, and characters portrayed differently and its players different. Shadows narrative in post reboot is less nice, the world he lives in his harsh and he's a harsh reflection of it.

Its kinda neat

[Kuzu]

29 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Its not the same or presented the same. Which is my problems.  The story isn't its parts and how its told, and how its told post reboot imo is better. Not just for shadow but for everyone he interacted with. It was more reflective who his character was and note the finished romanticizetion that fans thought he was. It enbraced his flaws and insecuruties in ways that just never happened prebiotic. Because that story was being told different, and characters portrayed differently and its players different. Shadows narrative in post reboot is less nice, the world he lives in his harsh and he's a harsh reflection of it.

Its kinda neat

Once again, we know Shadow is a dark ball of angry angst. We know he's willing to make unfavorable decisions, and we know he rubs people the wrong way. Nothing in his post-reboot incarnation is anything we haven't seen before. It's great, and I love it too.

But I like seeing characters act outside of their established personalities, because it actually makes them feel like they have feelings and emotions.

To make it simpler: the same reasons you think Sonic is a better character in Boom, I think the same for Shadow pre-reboot. It's a novel seeing a character that is mostly a stoic nihilist, actually actually act with some genuine empathy and compassion WITHOUT needing to resort to violence.

[Shadowlax]

22 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Once again, we know Shadow is a dark ball of angry angst. We know he's willing to make unfavorable decisions, and we know he rubs people the wrong way. Nothing in his post-reboot incarnation is anything we haven't seen before. It's great, and I love it too

It is actually. In the sense he actually has to deal with other people. The only pre-reboot thing that kinda got close was when he was stuck in blazes world and he to just deal with it. I kinda wish he stayed longer. Shadow in the pre-reboot under Ian's pen was often shoved into conflicts and then ushered away. Even treasure team tango seems he isn't exactly out of his element.

All of the post reboot is shadow out of his element. Hes scared, he's genuinely scared. Shadow in the pre-reboot would get sad and stuff but it was end with "my friends and I will see us through" this shadow is scared. No matter what he does no matter who his friends due to the nature of what he is and who the enemy is (eclipse) his friends can't help. Its a problem he has to deal with both internally and externally,  and he feels alone.

That sense of loneliness and desperation,  and self loathing doesn't really come through. The closest he gets is wanting to see his friend which is touching but to me as a narrative concept is somewhere we have been before. And quickly transitions to him just being on a team being relatively fine.

But post reboot shadow no matter what he does he is alone. And that freaks him out. And thats fun. Hes is a reflection of the world he lives in. One that's harsh lonely and scary. And he's scared, and alone, and thinks he a monster and its great. It was a panicked shadow. It was great

 

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But I like seeing characters act outside of their established personalities, because it actually makes them feel like they have feelings and emotions.

That's cool I do too. I just think of the two interpretations post reboot yielded more interesting stuff staying closer and forcing Ian to adapt. Sometimes the most interesting ideas comes from the need to adapt. But if you like the other, its cool.

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To make it simpler: the same reasons you think Sonic is a better character in Boom, I think the same for Shadow pre-reboot. It's a novel seeing a character that is mostly a stoic nihilist, actually actually act with some genuine empathy and compassion WITHOUT needing to resort to violence.

That's fine. I mean he does act with genuine empathy and compassion...but he does punch a lot. For enough.

I really just like how sorta harsh he is. It isn't antagonism like idea, I like how it's used here. That moment when knuckles puts the pieces together in the cave is chef's kiss

But I get where you are coming from and understand your desire.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Irrelevance doesn't make the material less embarrassing or the association go away *points to my avatar's game* but unlike with that there's a bunch of other materials with different interpretations and takes for people to enjoy.

It does when people don’t hold it against them more than a decade later. There’s a reason you don’t hear “Shadow should’ve stayed dead” as much these days than we did ten years ago, even if those people still believe it.

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The ff's are only absorbed in two mediums, a cartoon and the comic. The latter of which responsible for the weird stories and the thing that existed for so long there's isn't a lot of other matetial. Ian flynn coming in magically wasn't going to fix there problems because the characters at least the ff's didn't change much. People didn't like them. The ff's for one reason for another for a lot of people don't think they represent sonic and Ian when he took over trying to save that "lore" didn't help. People werent holding grudges it turns out not as many people liked those characters and especially stories as once thought. Not enough to sell books.

Yeah, that’s not even remotely true since the 90s were where Sonic’s popularity was at an all time high. Having low comic sales doesn’t equate to people disliking those characters—you do realize that comics back then (and even today) were largely dominated by DC and Marvel, who had hundreds of comics for individual characters as opposed to the one or two comics that Sonic had, right? And that’s not even getting into other comic giants that got more attention.

Of course he’s not going to sell as much given that kind of competition. Low sales, if anything, means low advertising given that the issues during Penders era were being sold largely before the age of the internet taking off and becoming mainstream, and largely before he became know as the egotistical talentless hack he is now.

So unless you have some official statistics over the reception from Sega or Archie of these characters or the comics back during that period, you’d be better of not pretending to speak for thousands of Sonic fans who have more diversified tastes for them to be simplified to “they don’t like the FF.”

I could find just as many who do like them from just fan-art alone.

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That's bullshit. One I was a child in the 00's when these crappy books were coming out. Like many I just kept buying it hoping it would be good,  because I liked sonic. Only to be disappointed. Those adults criticizing it decades later, like ian flynn and his wife were people who grew up with that shit then and hated it then.

So because you didn’t like it, everyone else didn’t either? I don’t recall you being everyone else’s voice on the matter.

And so what if you were a child in the 00s? I was a child in the 90s when they first started making them—when Sonic’s cartoons (specifically the one with the Freedom Fighters who were chosen to be in the comic on Day One) were a major hit that led to them being published. I watched these cartoons and read the comics before you were even born, and before Ken Penders was even writing for them, and back when the comics were more akin to Looney Tunes or AoSTH. I liked Sonic too, and so did many others, and the Sonic fix was all that mattered.

And while Ian Flynn and the likes may not have liked what Penders made, it didn’t stop him from retconning those same things into something better before things grew out of his control.

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There are certainly others who enjoy the ken, Carl, shit but the idea the criticism spawed from nowhere is ridiculous bullshit

This is some "game grumps made everyone hate sonic bullshit"

I want you to find the words “criticism spawned from nowhere” anywhere in my last post. Because now you’re going off rails.

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That's not the same.

You know it's not the same, stop being disingenuous.

The only one being disingenuous is you, because it is the same—similar enough for the comparison to stick. 

A new name doesn’t change that IDW is essentially Archie Pre-Reboot down to the premise of Eggman taking over the world and Sonic and his friends trying to free and repair it, but without the Freedom Fighters people know. Heck Forces, made by Sonic Team, themselves is basically their take on it in the games.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

It does when people don’t hold it against them more than a decade later. There’s a reason you don’t hear “Shadow should’ve stayed dead” as much these days than we did ten years ago, even if those people still believe it.

 

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Yeah, that’s not even remotely true since the 90s were where Sonic’s popularity was at an all time high. Having low comic sales doesn’t equate to people disliking those characters—you do realize that comics back then (and even today) were largely dominated by DC and Marvel, who had hundreds of comics for individual characters as opposed to the one or two comics that Sonic had, right? And that’s not even getting into other comic giants that got more attention.

Of course he’s not going to sell as much given that kind of competition. Low sales, if anything, means low advertising given that the issues during Penders era were being sold largely before the age of the internet, and largely before he became know as the egotistical talentless hack he is now.

So unless you have some official statistics over the reception from Sega or Archie of these characters or the comics back during that period, you’d be better of not pretending to speak for thousands of Sonic fans who have more diversified tastes for them to be simplified to “they don’t like the FF.”

Sonic's popularity doesn't really have to do with anyone liking the FF's. He could popular cartoon could have successful does not translate to fans of those characters. Also when I mean sales I don't mean how good the comic is doing. Because if you want to make that argument I would actually still be correct considering the new comic despite not really being advertised by sega, just like the old one has done better than the archie comic ever did. But what i'm talking about is the FF"s couldn't sell books by themself, Ian flynn outright admits this when he said he has to put sega characters on the cover to get people to actually buy them. This isn't the case with the newer characters at least tangle and whisper. I made no claim that just because the comic book wasn't pulling batman numbers was the sole reason no one liked the FF's you are either being disingenuous or not even reading the argument.

 

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I could find just as many who do like them from just fan-art alone.

There's probably a bunch of fan art of the FF's that doesn't mean that translates to most of the core audience being interested in them or them being potentially interesting to newer people. Its fairly common particularly in comic books characters that don't resonate in other fan bases or mediums but did for a time in one.

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So because you didn’t like it, everyone else didn’t either? I don’t recall you being everyone else’s voice on the matter.

No one said that

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And so what if you were a child in the 00s? I was a child in the 90s when they first started making them—when Sonic’s cartoons (specifically the one with the Freedom Fighters who were chosen to be in the comic on Day One) were a major hit that led to them being published. I watched these cartoons and read the comics before you were even born, and before Ken Penders was even writing for them, and back when the comics were more akin to Looney Tunes or AoSTH. I liked Sonic too, and so did many others, and the Sonic fix was all that mattered.

That's nice, my argument it is that they are not really popular in what the sonic fan base is now. Nor are a lot of the old comic books. And a lot of them might not been that popular back then in some cases, but were just kids kind of dealing with what they got to get to the sonic parts. That's the same thing with sonic X we had to suffer through a lot of boring shit to get to the good parts of that cartoon. Doesn't mean chris is a popular folks wanna see back character or any of his friends.

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And while Ian Flynn and the likes may not have liked what Penders made, it didn’t stop him from retconning those same things into something better before things grew out of his control.

Ian Flynn likes to make use of what's there rather than outright destroy this is known yes.

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I want you to find the words “criticism spawned from nowhere” anywhere in my last post. Because now you’re going off rails.

"And that’s before acknowledging the target audience they were marketed for in the 90s who largely weren’t bothered by that material compared to adults in 2020 criticizing it decades later. "

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The only one being disingenuous is you, because it is the same—similar enough for the comparison to stick. 

Its literally not. Its literally not the same thing, or context or anything.

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A new name doesn’t change that IDW is essentially Archie Pre-Reboot down to the premise of Eggman taking over the world, but without the Freedom Fighters people know.

IDW eggman hasn't actually taken over the world, its post forces. So its returned to the statis quo closer to the games actually. Even the zombot virus once ended, he will have not taken over the world. Or rather he will have taken over the world as much as he usually does. Which is a thing he does in the games. Not everything is referencing a comic my guy.

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Heck Forces, made by Sonic Team, themselves is basically their take on it in the games.

Or this is just a common narrative reflective of sonic's fight the power roots which has been a thing since game 1. And a bunch of comic fans read way into sega a company who has long since stopped giving a fuck about those characters.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

11 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Sonic's popularity doesn't really have to do with anyone liking the FF's.

I wonder what that says for Tangle and Whisper then?

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He could popular cartoon could have successful does not translate to fans of those characters. Also when I mean sales I don't mean how good the comic is doing. Because if you want to make that argument I would actually still be correct considering the new comic despite not really being advertised by sega, just like the old one has done better than the archie comic ever did.

Except Archie has had a 20 year head start before IDW started taking the reins, and right now IDW is having scheduling difficulties. So you’d still be wrong on all accounts.

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But what i'm talking about is the FF"s couldn't sell books by themself, Ian flynn outright admits this when he said he has to put sega characters on the cover to get people to actually buy them. This isn't the case with the newer characters at least tangle and whisper. I made no claim that just because the comic book wasn't pulling batman numbers was the sole reason no one liked the FF's you are either being disingenuous or not even reading the argument.

Right, and why? Because poor advertising. Not because people didn’t like the FF as much. 

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There's probably a bunch of fan art of the FF's that doesn't mean that translates to most of the core audience being interested in them or them being potentially interesting to newer people. Its fairly common particularly in comic books characters that don't resonate in other fan bases or mediums but did for a time in one.

Neither do comic sales of the 1990s translates to how people in 2010 and beyond judge these comic and it’s material. And the sooner you stop making that assessment as how people look at these characters, the more you’ll understand this is not as one-sided as you’ve been making this from the start.

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No one said that

You keep saying “people don’t like them as much” as if you know what the fan base as a whole thinks. Like you’re doing in the next paragraph below...

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That's nice, my argument it is that they are not really popular in what the sonic fan base is now. Nor are a lot of the old comic books. And a lot of them might not been that popular back then in some cases, but were just kids kind of dealing with what they got to get to the sonic parts. That's the same thing with sonic X we had to suffer through a lot of boring shit to get to the good parts of that cartoon. Doesn't mean chris is a popular folks wanna see back character or any of his friends.

...and you use it as a springboard to ignore any details that don’t align with what you like, despite knowing full well that isn’t case for everyone else you keep projecting this on.
 

So yes, you did say that, in elaborate detail. Again, you don’t know what this fanbase as a whole likes, so quit projecting your tastes for it.

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"And that’s before acknowledging the target audience they were marketed for in the 90s who largely weren’t bothered by that material compared to adults in 2020 criticizing it decades later. "

Now where exactly are the words “criticism spawned from nowhere” again? Because throughout that time criticism was abound even by those who were fans of Archie Sonic, myself included.

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Its literally not. Its literally not the same thing, or context or anything.
 

It is literally a ragtag team of cartoon animals fighting to save a ravaged world from Eggman’s control. That is the Freedom Fighter concept in a nutshell, dude—it starts right there in the first issue of IDW and grows bigger from there and it starts right after Sonic gets captured in Forces.

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Or this is just a common narrative reflective of sonic's fight the power roots which has been a thing since game 1. And a bunch of comic fans read way into sega a company who has long since stopped giving a fuck about those characters.

Sega largely didn’t give a fuck about the Chaotix before bringing back only three of them in Heroes; they largely didn’t give a fuck about Shadow and the rest of the extended cast after ruining this franchise’s reputation with ShTH and 06; they largely didn’t give a fuck about storytelling after playing too safe; they largely didn’t give a fuck about making a Sonic 4 in a manner true to form of the Classic before Mania; they largely didn’t give a fuck about the continuity they had going on that they split it out of the blue into Two Worlds; they largely didn’t give a fuck about Mighty or Ray until allowing them to be playable in Mania; and they largely didn’t give enough of a fuck about the Boom sub-franchise enough to fund it to stay alive.

And I doubt they give as much of a fuck as you think they do towards IDW and the exclusive characters in it like Tangle or Whisper given they have a long history of not giving a fuck about a lot of things, and they can just as make it suffer the same fate as Archie if they feel like they want to move on from it to something else.

[Diogenes]

9 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

It is literally a ragtag team of cartoon animals fighting to save a ravaged world from Eggman’s control. That is the Freedom Fighter concept in a nutshell, dude—it was literally there in the first issue of IDW.

The world was already freed from Eggman's control before IDW Sonic started, that's why "the Resistance" morphed into "the Restoration". IDW Sonic just doesn't have the same kind of setting as SatAM or early Archie, with an entrenched dictator necessitating an organized group to fight against him, it's just spun off of the games at a point when they had very briefly broken from the status quo.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The world was already freed from Eggman's control before IDW Sonic started, that's why "the Resistance" morphed into "the Restoration". IDW Sonic just doesn't have the same kind of setting as SatAM or early Archie, with an entrenched dictator necessitating an organized group to fight against him, it's just spun off of the games at a point when they had very briefly broken from the status quo.

And Eggman doesn’t control the whole world in Post-Reboot Archie either, yet it still has a ragtag team of cartoon animals—the same ones from early Archie, I should add—fighting to save it from his control. From many parts of the world too.

[Diogenes]

Just now, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Neither does Eggman control the world in Post-Reboot Archie, and yet it still has a ragtag team of cartoon animals fighting to save it from his control.

Because it was still trying to be Archie Sonic. IDW Sonic isn't Archie Sonic, it's just clearing up the mess left by Forces.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Because it was still trying to be Archie Sonic. IDW Sonic isn't Archie Sonic, it's just clearing up the mess left by Forces.

No one’s saying IDW is Archie Sonic. I’m saying IDW still continues the Freedom Fighter concept of a ragtag group of cartoon animals fighting to save the world from Eggman’s control.

In other words, that’s not strictly an Archie or SatAM thing.

[Diogenes]

Again, "the Resistance" is done with, it's "the Restoration" now, because they're not about fighting Eggman, they're about rebuilding. And I wouldn't go expecting it to stick around forever either, because I doubt the games will include any of this, and I doubt Sega/Sonic Team is going to let the comic stray too far from their vision of the series.

"Some organized group of heroes working against the villain existing for some amount of time" isn't really the same thing as the Freedom Fighters being designed as a fundamental part of the setting.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Just now, Diogenes said:

Again, "the Resistance" is done with, it's "the Restoration" now, because they're not about fighting Eggman, they're about rebuilding. And I wouldn't go expecting it to stick around forever either, because I doubt the games will include any of this, and I doubt Sega/Sonic Team is going to let the comic stray too far from their vision of the series.

"Some organized group of heroes working against the villain existing for some amount of time" isn't really the same thing as the Freedom Fighters being designed as a fundamental part of the setting.

And there was a large period during the Archie Sonic comics where practically the exact same thing was going on as well before Eggman came back and did the whole thing over again.

So IDW is still continuing the tradition, even if it’s doing it it’s own way.

[Wraith]

It's not the exact same thing, but there is something to be said about how Ian used Forces's structure to keep the characters together in the same way the main cast would be together during Archie so he could write stories in a similar way that he was doing before, essentially. This paired with turning Eggman up a few notches from the Modern games so that we're pretty close to feeling like post reboot never left aside from a few omissions and characterization tweaks.

I have no idea if it'll stick or not. I didn't think the "Restoration" would still exist 2 years into the comic's life to start with though, so yeah. 

[DabigRG]

Kinda wish much of this IDW talk was happening in the IDW thread.

[E-122-Psi]

4 hours ago, Wraith said:

It's not the exact same thing, but there is something to be said about how Ian used Forces's structure to keep the characters together in the same way the main cast would be together during Archie so he could write stories in a similar way that he was doing before, essentially. This paired with turning Eggman up a few notches from the Modern games so that we're pretty close to feeling like post reboot never left aside from a few omissions and characterization tweaks.

I have no idea if it'll stick or not. I didn't think the "Restoration" would still exist 2 years into the comic's life to start with though, so yeah. 

I kinda hope. I have to say I'm not really big on the whole 'have every hero in the same group on a mission plan with no personal agendas' setup. I tend to hate when it seeps into the games as well (eg. Shadow and Omega working for GUN when they could have been unpredictable lone wolves). It feels like an excuse to keep these characters automated and not driven by their own personalities and individual agency. I'm genuinely left worried after Forces whether SEGA thinks that's the structure the fanbase want out of Sonic. Everyone regimented and never having their own personal arcs like in Adventure again.

[Moose the Cat]

I'm increasingly convinced only way to properly do Sonic right is without the Sega license; the fans understand why they like Sonic more than Sega.

As in, the premise & cast of Sonic have so much more potential than Sega will ever be willing to realize. Imagine something like Sonic in the hands of the Adventure Time creators. Even the OK KO episode with Sonic & Tails guesting had more ideas than some of the game stories.

[Wraith]

5 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I kinda hope. I have to say I'm not really big on the whole 'have every hero in the same group on a mission plan with no personal agendas' setup. I tend to hate when it seeps into the games as well (eg. Shadow and Omega working for GUN when they could have been unpredictable lone wolves). It feels like an excuse to keep these characters automated and not driven by their own personalities and individual agency. I'm genuinely left worried after Forces whether SEGA thinks that's the structure the fanbase want out of Sonic. Everyone regimented and never having their own personal arcs like in Adventure again.

The Restoration hasn't stopped a lot of character moments from happened. I'd argued that they've been enabled more by having to be there and work together. That's kinda why this setup has grown on me: It brings out a lot of potential interactions that don't happen in the games setup of putting everyone in their own little corners of the universe. These characters are supposed to have their own agency but they're also supposed to be a group of friends too.