Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Dr. Mechano]

The other characters are there, watching Sonic leave in the ending.

So I feel like the "canon" path could easily be all of them going on the adventure together and sharing the Emeralds?

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

The other characters are there, watching Sonic leave in the ending.

So I feel like the "canon" path could easily be all of them going on the adventure together and sharing the Emeralds?

Well, not to split hairs or anything, but that's usually how the Emeralds work. They're either all Super or one of them is.

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

The other characters are there, watching Sonic leave in the ending.

So I feel like the "canon" path could easily be all of them going on the adventure together and sharing the Emeralds?

At that point I think you're diverging too much from what's actually in the game. There's no point where all 5 characters are shown to be together in Mania Mode, and Knuckles is on his own at the start of the game and for his unique version of Mirage Saloon Act 1.

I'm sure I've said this before in one thread or another but personally I'm fine with how Mania handles it; non-canon faux-Super forms for most characters, so there's still approximately the same incentive to get the emeralds with any character, but only a few characters get a true and canonical Super transformation so the plot doesn't either have to account for every character being a demigod or somehow try to ignore it.

[Dr. Mechano]

15 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

At that point I think you're diverging too much from what's actually in the game. There's no point where all 5 characters are shown to be together in Mania Mode, and Knuckles is on his own at the start of the game and for his unique version of Mirage Saloon Act 1.

I'm sure I've said this before in one thread or another but personally I'm fine with how Mania handles it; non-canon faux-Super forms for most characters, so there's still approximately the same incentive to get the emeralds with any character, but only a few characters get a true and canonical Super transformation so the plot doesn't either have to account for every character being a demigod or somehow try to ignore it.

Well, nah, they're not demigods, they just have a cool timed powerup, you know? It's like how anyone in the Mario series can use Super Stars.

Really, I prefer to see the items and powerups and moves in general as diegetic rather than some non-canon gameplay-only abstraction - not just the super forms. Super Sneakers, Shields, Invincibility Monitors - I like to think those are physical things that exist, items the characters are literally picking up and using that are just as real in Sonic's world as Fire Flowers and Stars are to Mario's world.

To me, that just makes the world feel more interesting and unique. The idea that anyone could crack open a monitor or collect the Emeralds and be able to use them to power up - if only for a little while - has more creative potential than just limiting it to certain characters in my opinion.

[DabigRG]

12 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Well, not to split hairs or anything, but that's usually how the Emeralds work. They're either all Super or one of them is.

I almost misread that  as 

Though admittedly, that's because I was sorta thinking about it recently.

 

[Plumbers_Helper]

31 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

So I feel like the "canon" path could easily be all of them going on the adventure together and sharing the Emeralds?

I can't find the source, but one of the developers for Sonic Mania confirmed that Knuckles was with Sonic & Tails for most of Mania Mode. Also the ending to Encore Mode shows everyone going Super at the same time in a cutscene, so everyone being able to share the Emeralds power has more evidence then just from a gameplay perspective. It was even done in Sonic Heroes. Encore Modes' canon is at odds with Sonic Mania Adventures, but Tyson Hesse has said what's in the game should take priority over what's in the cartoon.. 

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Okay, fine.

For my next unpopular/popular opinion, I think that if something clearly happens in gameplay, it ought to be counted as canon. Arbitrarily saying it's an imaginary element or otherwise doesn't count because it violates Iizuka's rules limits the creativity of the series in my opinion.

I dont agree. Sometimes folks put dumb shit in for shits and giggles and don't want it to be taken seriously.

 

45 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Well, nah, they're not demigods, they just have a cool timed powerup, you know? It's like how anyone in the Mario series can use Super Stars.

Really, I prefer to see the items and powerups and moves in general as diegetic rather than some non-canon gameplay-only abstraction - not just the super forms. Super Sneakers, Shields, Invincibility Monitors - I like to think those are physical things that exist, items the characters are literally picking up and using that are just as real in Sonic's world as Fire Flowers and Stars are to Mario's world.

To me, that just makes the world feel more interesting and unique. The idea that anyone could crack open a monitor or collect the Emeralds and be able to use them to power up - if only for a little while - has more creative potential than just limiting it to certain characters in my opinion.

I would prefer the more important characters jad unique super forms with different activation conditions

[Diogenes]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Well, nah, they're not demigods, they just have a cool timed powerup, you know? It's like how anyone in the Mario series can use Super Stars.

Really, I prefer to see the items and powerups and moves in general as diegetic rather than some non-canon gameplay-only abstraction - not just the super forms. Super Sneakers, Shields, Invincibility Monitors - I like to think those are physical things that exist, items the characters are literally picking up and using that are just as real in Sonic's world as Fire Flowers and Stars are to Mario's world.

To me, that just makes the world feel more interesting and unique. The idea that anyone could crack open a monitor or collect the Emeralds and be able to use them to power up - if only for a little while - has more creative potential than just limiting it to certain characters in my opinion.

Eh, I think the games have too often elevated the emeralds to legendary, world-shifting status to make them comparable to Mario powerups. Even from the start they were a core part of the conflict in a way Mario's stars haven't been. Except maybe in SM64, but they didn't really do anything there anyway.

My take on the "how does one 'Super'" subject is based on Tikal's "the emeralds change thoughts into power" line; not that there's some privileged few with the innate ability to use them (aside from how Shadow and the Biolizard were built for it, I guess), but that few people have the strength of will, the passion, the intensity, to use them at that level. The Super form's ultimately a reflection of something within the character, not just a matter of having the magic rocks on hand, and leaves open the possibility of other characters going Super under the right circumstances without risking every story turning into a Super Saiyan free-for-all. That's the interpretation that speaks strongest to me, anyway.

2 minutes ago, Plumbers_Helper said:

Also the ending to Encore Mode shows everyone going Super at the same time in a cutscene, so everyone being able to share the Emeralds power has more evidence then just from a gameplay perspective.

Pretty sure it's just Sonic that goes Super. But multiple characters going Super at once has been a thing since SA2 anyway.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

not that there's some privileged few with the innate ability to use them (aside from how Shadow and the Biolizard were built for it, I guess), but that few people have the strength of will, the passion, the intensity, to use them at that level.

I feel like that's the same thing

Not to take away from sonic, he doesn't really seem much more special interms of strength of will passion or intensity, heck there are multiple characters that I would say qualifies more than him. Like knuckles. And then there are characters like silver who I would argue has less of those things than sonic who also gets to special. Yes there's something to be said about say shadow and blaze two characters who are all of those things more than like anyone who basically have Super De Duper forms the former basically having the sonic equivalent of kioken. But that doesn't explain knuckles who legit just qualifies or amy who 100% qualifies.

He's just special. Shadow's special, blaze is special , and silver somehow is also special. And I hate that, I wish more characters were also special in different ways even the ones that are already special. Or i wish characters in general were less special and there were just no super forms and the abilities they have were what you got.

[Wraith]

The implication behind it being driven by will and passion is that everyone has the potential to use the emeralds under the right circumstances. Suggesting that they're innate means that some people won't ever be able to use them no matter what. That's the difference. 

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Windy and Ripply said:

The implication behind it being driven by will and passion is that everyone has the potential to use the emeralds under the right circumstances. Suggesting that they're innate means that some people won't ever be able to use them no matter what. That's the difference. 

I get that, but you gotta like communicate that through narrative and the world's lore. And considering " Female hedgehogs can't go super " is in the lore , that idea is inherently untrue

 

[Wraith]

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

I get that, but you gotta like communicate that through narrative and the world's lore. And considering " Female hedgehogs can't go super " is in the lore , that idea is inherently untrue

 

We had a discussion earlier in the week where some people were choosing to read that literally and some weren't(IE only male hedgehogs can go super at this point/as far as we know)

At any rate I think from the start this conversation was floating into headcanon/what we can gleam from the games without outside sources' territory anyway. 

[Kuzu]

The implications are pretty clear; Sonic, Shadow, and whoever are just more "inherently special" to be able to use the Emeralds. Yes, it can make every other character feel inferior, especially if you feel these are things that shouldn't be treated as that special, but they are. 

Super Forms stopped being just gameplay power ups the second Sonic Adventure actually put an in-universe lore surrounding them and decided that only a select few are capable of harnessing that power. 

[Diogenes]

19 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I feel like that's the same thing

I really don't think it is. People don't usually keep the same emotional intensity all the time, your mental state changes in the short term as you react to things and long term as you grow as a person. Some characters are more naturally suited to it than others; Sonic can go Super pretty easily because he's a pretty intense dude with an unshakable internal drive, while Tails is more grounded, more thoughtful, and less sure of himself, but that doesn't mean he can't ever reach a point where his emotions are intense and focused enough to justify a Super form. Certainly not in the same way that he can't suddenly become a hedgehog, anyway.

19 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Not to take away from sonic, he doesn't really seem much more special interms of strength of will passion or intensity,

It's basically the entire point of It Doesn't Matter, though, and I can't see how it's an inaccurate read of the character.

19 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

heck there are multiple characters that I would say qualifies more than him. Like knuckles.

I mean Knuckles has a certain intensity, but it tends to be...unfocused. He's a hothead, he snaps into anger quickly, but it's not a deep well to draw from; he'll cool off soon enough.

19 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

And then there are characters like silver who I would argue has less of those things than sonic who also gets to special.

I'd be the first to cut Silver from anything significant but it's not hard to justify him going Super under my framework. '06 had him carrying the weight of saving the future on his shoulders, trying and repeatedly failing to stop the apocalypse, to the point where his one friend had to sacrifice herself to do what he couldn't. And then all of time and space collapses and there's a freaky monster responsible and he's got a chance to redeem himself and set things right. It was his time to get shit done, and he did, and maybe he can't actually go Super anymore since things are different.

9 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I get that, but you gotta like communicate that through narrative and the world's lore. And considering " Female hedgehogs can't go super " is in the lore , that idea is inherently untrue

I'm fully aware that I'm veering somewhere into headcanon territory with this but I don't think there's anything in the series that actually contradicts it at least, and it's not like I've pulled the "thoughts into power" line out of my ass. And I say it every time, but I still think people are misinterpreting what that one off the cuff answer actually meant.

Does anyone have the source for that on hand, btw? It'd be nice to have a quick refresh on the exact context.

[Shadowlax]

9 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

 

It's basically the entire point of It Doesn't Matter, though, and I can't see how it's an inaccurate read of the character.

 

9 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I mean Knuckles has a certain intensity, but it tends to be...unfocused. He's a hothead, he snaps into anger quickly, but it's not a deep well to draw from; he'll cool off soon enough.

 

So I want to take about these two things in particular because it speaks to my point. I think its an inaccurate ready because the games themselves don't follow through. I'm not saying sonic is a super jokerster, but is marketebly less intense and a lot of other things than a lot of other characters. And while sonic isn't quick to anger, sonic strait is a guy with a short attention span and looses focus. Sonic can anger or be annoyed rather quickly too it depends on the writing to be honest.

Knuckles's qualifies under your logic, being unfocused I don't think it disqualifies him. Heck if we are keeping to DBZ comparisons it qualifies him even more considering multiple Super saiyains exist due to unbridled rage uncontrolable rage.

He doesn't get to special because he just isn't special. Sonic is literally preordained from on high to special. There is literally a mural and prophecy in regards to how special he is.

There are multiple things in the lore that are strait up " no some people are just special" and that's one of them. Knuckles people left him fuck all but a shitty job, and a mural dedicated to how special someone else is.

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

So I want to take about these two things in particular because it speaks to my point. I think its an inaccurate ready because the games themselves don't follow through. I'm not saying sonic is a super jokerster, but is marketebly less intense and a lot of other things than a lot of other characters. And while sonic isn't quick to anger, sonic strait is a guy with a short attention span and looses focus. Sonic can anger or be annoyed rather quickly too it depends on the writing to be honest.

Knuckles's qualifies under your logic, being unfocused I don't think it disqualifies him. Heck if we are keeping to DBZ comparisons it qualifies him even more considering multiple Super saiyains exist due to unbridled rage uncontrolable rage.

He doesn't get to special because he just isn't special. Sonic is literally preordained from on high to special. There is literally a mural and prophecy in regards to how special he is.

There are multiple things in the lore that are strait up " no some people are just special" and that's one of them. Knuckles people left him fuck all but a shitty job, and a mural dedicated to how special someone else is.

Its shown time and time again that when things are actually hitting the fan, Sonic is about his business. Even when that isn't the case, he's not really losing focus on anything. He's one of the main people actively trying to stop the threat in Sonic Adventure while everyone else is going through some personal journey of their own, and the same holds true for the sequel. 

Knuckles, god bless his soul, tends to make far more bigger fuck ups than Sonic and in ways that would likely disqualify him. He lacks discipline more or less and tends to make situations worse in his haste (fighting Sonic after mistaking the chaos emerald for a ME piece, nearly crashing the shuttle the group are in, etc etc)

 

Yes, it sticks out like a sore thumb that Knuckles` people designed a prophecy surrounding someone else and not him, but we're still on the subject "worthiness" right now. 

[Wraith]

18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

 

Does anyone have the source for that on hand, btw? It'd be nice to have a quick refresh on the exact context.

Only source I could find, but Ian is knowledgable about Sega's current do's and don'ts with regard to the series so there's at least some official grounding. Everything else I could find about it was fan made with no official source in sight.

 

4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

So I want to take about these two things in particular because it speaks to my point. I think its an inaccurate ready because the games themselves don't follow through. I'm not saying sonic is a super jokerster, but is marketebly less intense and a lot of other things than a lot of other characters. And while sonic isn't quick to anger, sonic strait is a guy with a short attention span and looses focus. Sonic can anger or be annoyed rather quickly too it depends on the writing to be honest.

Knuckles's qualifies under your logic, being unfocused I don't think it disqualifies him. Heck if we are keeping to DBZ comparisons it qualifies him even more considering multiple Super saiyains exist due to unbridled rage uncontrolable rage.

 

Intensity and passion are different from rage. Super Sonic is different from the saiyans in that he's often  portrayed as a calm, positive or jovial figure that is only intense as far as doing what has to be done. Shadow and Silver's super forms aren't that different. 

There's definetly an emotional drive, but it's a calm clarity that Knuckles never really displays. 

 

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

So I want to take about these two things in particular because it speaks to my point. I think its an inaccurate ready because the games themselves don't follow through. I'm not saying sonic is a super jokerster, but is marketebly less intense and a lot of other things than a lot of other characters. And while sonic isn't quick to anger, sonic strait is a guy with a short attention span and looses focus. Sonic can anger or be annoyed rather quickly too it depends on the writing to be honest.

I use the word "intense" but by that I don't mean he has to be firing on all cylinders all the time. My point is that, in general but especially when shit goes down, he's got the focus and clarity of acting on his genuine feelings and convictions. He's got his boundless confidence, his heroic drive to save people, his love for adventure and excitement, and he can pump that into the emeralds without fear or hesitation and get it back a thousandfold.

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

Knuckles's qualifies under your logic, being unfocused I don't think it disqualifies him. Heck if we are keeping to DBZ comparisons it qualifies him even more considering multiple Super saiyains exist due to unbridled rage uncontrolable rage.

My idea may be DBZ-adjacent but it's not actually DBZ. And Knuckles doesn't have unbridled, uncontrollable rage anyway; he's just regular quick-to-anger. If you're going to power something with emotions, you need a steady stream of emotion to get a steady stream of power, and that's not what Knuckles' anger is.

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

He doesn't get to special because he just isn't special. Sonic is literally preordained from on high to special. There is literally a mural and prophecy in regards to how special he is.

There are multiple things in the lore that are strait up " no some people are just special" and that's one of them. Knuckles people left him fuck all but a shitty job, and a mural dedicated to how special someone else is.

Look we had this discussion before and it went nowhere so all I'm going to say on this matter is that I reject the notion that prophecy has to be what imbues someone with power rather than it simply being a record of what someone does with their own power.

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Windy and Ripply said:

 

 

Intensity and passion are different from rage. Super Sonic is different from the saiyans in that he's often  portrayed as a calm, positive or jovial figure that is only intense as far as doing what has to be done. Shadow and Silver's super forms aren't that different. 

 

Shadow legit has a myriad of abilities and whole other forms tied to emotional states and one of those are rage , i would make the argment that shadow's mental state when doing his all things is a lot different than sonic and that's kind of the whole thing.

But I did just think of something. if you want it to make sense, They can go super for different reasons. And that's very simular to DBZ in a sense. Like ok, sonic is like determined , he has a lot of determination and a calm demeanor and this allows him to channel that energy into being golden. Shadow's if we were to keep to DBZ comparisons I would suggest shadow's reason for a lot of thing is very simular to new broly, he's this power house filled with a rage and there is an incident that unleashes that rage. An anger and unstoppable will, that comparison even tracks because both characters have fathe figures that put inhibtors on them. Silver would be hope, a desperation and a hope for a better future that he can let the entire future down and there has to be something better than what is .

Them going super for different reasons I think reconciles what you think, but also reconciles that shadow and silver might not qualify under sonic standard.

That said what are two traits that knuckles needs, because I feel like whatever they are. He has them. It's the mural

We can have this entire conversation, but at the end of the day, sonic was preordained to be special and that throws all lore and head canon you want to throw at it out

 

[Dr. Mechano]

Shouldn't Sonic Heroes count as an appearance for Super Tails and Super Knuckles? Even in the Genesis games, they didn't look significantly different; they just got faster and stronger and a bit shinier, which is what happened in the Metal Overlord battle.

I'm totally fine with them not going full on golden-furred super saiyan like Sonic does; I just want to still be able to call their powered-up forms "Super Tails" and "Super Knuckles" and acknowledge it as a real canon ability in the games.

[Wraith]

13 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Shadow legit has a myriad of abilities and whole other forms tied to emotional states and one of those are rage , i would make the argment that shadow's mental state when doing his all things is a lot different than sonic and that's kind of the whole thing.

But I did just think of something. if you want it to make sense, They can go super for different reasons. And that's very simular to DBZ in a sense. Like ok, sonic is like determined , he has a lot of determination and a calm demeanor and this allows him to channel that energy into being golden. Shadow's if we were to keep to DBZ comparisons I would suggest shadow's reason for a lot of thing is very simular to new broly, he's this power house filled with a rage and there is an incident that unleashes that rage. An anger and unstoppable will, that comparison even tracks because both characters have fathe figures that put inhibtors on them. Silver would be hope, a desperation and a hope for a better future that he can let the entire future down and there has to be something better than what is .

Shadow's mental state when he actually does go super is usually similar to Sonic's. The fact that the two are mirrored during their transformation sequence in SA2 isn't for show. They are, for once, in sync in terms of mindset and what needs to be done. 

This calm characterization doesn't change even in games like Shadow where Sonic isn't there. Shadow simply has the right mindset for the emeralds even if he doesn't feel it as strongly.

 

13 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

We can have this entire conversation, but at the end of the day, sonic was preordained to be special and that throws all lore and head canon you want to throw at it out

That said what are two traits that knuckles needs, because I feel like whatever they are. He has them. It's the mural

We can have this entire conversation, but at the end of the day, sonic was preordained to be special and that throws all lore and head canon you want to throw at it out

 

You are assuming that Sonic is special and working backwards instead of considering what might cause someone to resonate with the emeralds. Instead of saying that Sonic is just gifted and throwing your hands up, question instead what makes Sonic different and think about it from there. It doesn't become hard to piece it together. 

Sonic's experiences have molded a mindset and philosophy that make him tailor-fit to use the chaos emeralds. Shadow and Silver are similar. The mural is just a prophetic vision that someone like Sonic would come along. It's not like he was blessed with a gift by some higher power.  

[Kuzu]

20 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Shouldn't Sonic Heroes count as an appearance for Super Tails and Super Knuckles? Even in the Genesis games, they didn't look significantly different; they just got faster and stronger and a bit shinier, which is what happened in the Metal Overlord battle.

I'm totally fine with them not going full on golden-furred super saiyan like Sonic does; I just want to still be able to call their powered-up forms "Super Tails" and "Super Knuckles" and acknowledge it as a real canon ability in the games.

Iirc, I don't think Iizuka counts them as legit Super forms but rather Sonic giving Tails and Knuckles a portion of the power. But don't quote me on that. 

[Shadowlax]

21 hours ago, Windy and Ripply said:

Shadow's mental state when he actually does go super is usually similar to Sonic's. The fact that the two are mirrored during their transformation sequence in SA2 isn't for show. They are, for once, in sync in terms of mindset and what needs to be done. 

This calm characterization doesn't change even in games like Shadow where Sonic isn't there. Shadow simply has the right mindset for the emeralds even if he doesn't feel it as strongly.

 

You are assuming that Sonic is special and working backwards instead of considering what might cause someone to resonate with the emeralds. Instead of saying that Sonic is just gifted and throwing your hands up, question instead what makes Sonic different and think about it from there. It doesn't become hard to piece it together. 

Sonic's experiences have molded a mindset and philosophy that make him tailor-fit to use the chaos emeralds. Shadow and Silver are similar.

I dont agree but its your opinion so imma let you be.

Quote

The mural is just a prophetic vision that someone like Sonic would come along. It's not like he was blessed with a gift by some higher power.  

That's literally what happened.

[DabigRG]

Oh the super stuff, I imagine Iuzuka-san said only Male Hedgehogs because they were the only ones to do so at the time and we're also specifically propped as the leads.

Sonic is the originator of the form OoU and can no doubt do so because of his confidence in himself and his ability to do things.

Shadow is a fake hedgehog and  was among the things created specifically with harnessing the Emeralds energy in mind. And since he is the Ultimate Lifeform, it makes sense that he'd be able to channel it into a number of forms.

Silver was able to do it because Sonic shared more than enough energy and his ability to use Chaos Control proved his capability of a full on transformation ahead of time.

Amy is no doubt where the MALE hedgehog distinction comes in and that's largely because she never got to a point of actually using the Emeralds for anything.

Knuckles as Guardian SHOULD technically be able to do so and Sonic & Knuckles does indeed give him that capability with the Chaos Emeralds, but that seems to not be the case anymore. That said, there are indeed two factors that should be looked at in that regards: he like Amy never actually uses anything but the Master Emerald for story reasons and the Emeralds technically didn't belong to the Echidnas to begin with, iirc.

Chaos is able to transform with each emerald because it was a Chao mutated by their energy in the first place.

Emerl/Gemerl being able to use them makes sense from both the standpoint of machines being able to benefit from the power being long established and his nature as Giziod means he can easily copy the ability to use them if need be. Why turns into a four clawed orb is beyond me.

Mephiles is a immortal timespanning diety and thus can do whatever he wants. That the Emeralds can naturally Warp time as well as space helps.

The Zeti have been confirmed as capable of using them and that could be due to their vague mythical status, although they were doing so by attaching the input claws of Eggman's emerald powers throne to themselves and thus it could come down to their electromagnetism.

Finally, Blaze is from a separate dimension with her own set of Emeralds to transform into her Burning form and therefore doesn't really count either.

22 hours ago, Diogenes said:

I really don't think it is. People don't usually keep the same emotional intensity all the time, your mental state changes in the short term as you react to things and long term as you grow as a person. Some characters are more naturally suited to it than others; Sonic can go Super pretty easily because he's a pretty intense dude with an unshakable internal drive, while Tails is more grounded, more thoughtful, and less sure of himself, but that doesn't mean he can't ever reach a point where his emotions are intense and focused enough to justify a Super form. Certainly not in the same way that he can't suddenly become a hedgehog, anyway.

It's basically the entire point of It Doesn't Matter, though, and I can't see how it's an inaccurate read of the character.

I mean Knuckles has a certain intensity, but it tends to be...unfocused. He's a hothead, he snaps into anger quickly, but it's not a deep well to draw from; he'll cool off soon enough.

I'd be the first to cut Silver from anything significant but it's not hard to justify him going Super under my framework. '06 had him carrying the weight of saving the future on his shoulders, trying and repeatedly failing to stop the apocalypse, to the point where his one friend had to sacrifice herself to do what he couldn't. And then all of time and space collapses and there's a freaky monster responsible and he's got a chance to redeem himself and set things right. It was his time to get shit done, and he did, and maybe he can't actually go Super anymore since things are different.

I'm fully aware that I'm veering somewhere into headcanon territory with this but I don't think there's anything in the series that actually contradicts it at least, and it's not like I've pulled the "thoughts into power" line out of my ass. And I say it every time, but I still think people are misinterpreting what that one off the cuff answer actually meant.

Does anyone have the source for that on hand, btw? It'd be nice to have a quick refresh on the exact context.

 

22 hours ago, Windy and Ripply said:

Only source I could find, but Ian is knowledgable about Sega's current do's and don'ts with regard to the series so there's at least some official grounding. Everything else I could find about it was fan made with no official source in sight.

 

Intensity and passion are different from rage. Super Sonic is different from the saiyans in that he's often  portrayed as a calm, positive or jovial figure that is only intense as far as doing what has to be done. Shadow and Silver's super forms aren't that different. 

There's definetly an emotional drive, but it's a calm clarity that Knuckles never really displays. 

 

Wasn't it the same interview where he confirmed Blaze and Silver/Nega's true dwellings?

[Shadowlax]

Want to point out something

Silver was supposed to get his own video game. Silver at the time of his invention was intended to have shadow like popularity to thrust him into stardom. He probably was gonna get his own explanation as to why he's special. That didn't happen, so while his super form for some maybe unexplained, its isn't really any mentality or any of that nonsense. He's special to sell toys, the gods, the writers, ordained him to be special. The same way they did sonic , shadow and blaze. It just didn't work out.

Knuckles isn't special because of mentality or whatever, they could easily justify that shit. Knuckles isn't special because there was never anypoint in the series where they seriously invested in knuckles ever outside of introduction. The only time the series invested in knuckles in any serious regard is Ken Penders. Other wise knuckles's is just the strong angry dude. Even in sa1 where he's given more lore about where he comes from he gives no shits and after that game its just never brought up untill bioware and that got zapped by ken penders unfortunately.

Sega just doesn't view him as anything as a legacy character people like, he has toys and stuff but even during the time the were seriously investing in these characters to them, he felt complete. He could get a super form triggered by anger, they just don't give a shit