Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Multikaris]

5 hours ago, BadBehavior said:

I have an opinion (not sure if it's unpopular or not) that where I think a potential Project P-17 that Fixes forces would require a lot more effort than P-06. The level design of that game was alright for the most part, and was seen as a breath of fresh air by some who tired of the more linear boost formula. Forces is just linear boost formula cranked up to 11 Thousand. What good would making Sonic control better do if in service of playing these short, boring levels? Are the levels any more fun when ported into Generations? (Genuine question cos I haven't tried it for myself).

Indeed so. Though unlike a P-13 or P-14, it would at least be worth imagining new level layouts and such for it. The story makes it worthwhile.

[Fish964]

I created a whole thread about why I love Shadow the Hedgehog (game) so I will leave that there.

My unpopular opinions:

Sonic Advance 1 is the least fun to play of its trilogy

Sonic Unleashed is a good (but fair enough, not great) game

Rouge the Bat is not that bad a character

Sonic the Hedgehog 3 is significantly inferior to 2

Sonic X is a great show and is pretty faithful to the lore of the games (save the annoying human characters)

Sonic Rush is not that great

Come to think of it, neither is Colours

Sonic CD is one of the best Sonic games ever made

Verdict: these are just a handful off the top of my head, not trying to offend or ignite any debates. Simply my opinions, that I feel are not widely shared. Happy posting!

 

 

[iambitter21]

18 minutes ago, Fish964 said:

Sonic the Hedgehog 3 is significantly inferior to 2

I'm gonna pretend I never heard that and move on with my li-

19 minutes ago, Fish964 said:

Sonic CD is one of the best Sonic games ever made

….OKAY...

(just playing dude, you do you.)

[batson]

On 8/1/2020 at 10:50 PM, Fish964 said:

Rouge the Bat is not that bad a character
 

 

 

I thought Rouge was a rather well liked character. Well, at least by the fanbase. People outside the fanbase sometimes use Rouge as an example of how "weird" the Sonic franchise has gotten, due to Rouge obviously being intended to have sex appeal (which some people find weird as Sonic is primarily aimed at kids). But yeah, among actual fans she seems popular.

[Shadowlax]

56 minutes ago, batson said:

I thought Rouge was a rather well liked character. Well, at least by the fanbase. People outside the fanbase sometimes use Rouge as an example of how "weird" the Sonic franchise has gotten, due to Rouge obviously being intended to have sex appeal (which some people find weird as Sonic is primarily aimed at kids). But yeah, among actual fans she seems popular.

I have a theory that rouge isn't as popular as some may think she is, especially outside of the fanbase but kind of inside the fanbase as well. I'm not saying she's actively hated or anything like that. I don't think that's true. But I do think she's in a weird place as a character that kind of makes me fear for her future in the franchise

[Kuzu]

Rouge is a supporting character, and she's mostly been a supporting character. She's never going to reach the heights of popular as say, Team Sonic and Shadow or Silver. But she's not really hated either. So she's just kind of there.  There's no character who is completely loved or hated by the fanbase...except maybe the Deadly Six but even they have their fans...

[thumbs13]

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I have a theory that rouge isn't as popular as some may think she is, especially outside of the fanbase but kind of inside the fanbase as well. I'm not saying she's actively hated or anything like that. I don't think that's true. But I do think she's in a weird place as a character that kind of makes me fear for her future in the franchise

...She was playable in a game that came out in 2019. Rouge isn't some juggernaut of popularity for sure, but she's not in remote danger of ever leaving the franchise. She fits in a bunch of boxes not filled by other characters, and she's never gotten enough hate to stop her from appearing like Cream and Big. 
People disliking her design or whatever isn't enough to take her out of the franchise.

[Shadowlax]

14 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

...She was playable in a game that came out in 2019. Rouge isn't some juggernaut of popularity for sure, but she's not in remote danger of ever leaving the franchise. She fits in a bunch of boxes not filled by other characters, and she's never gotten enough hate to stop her from appearing like Cream and Big. 
People disliking her design or whatever isn't enough to take her out of the franchise.

They needed bodies and team dark is a known entity that could possibly bring in nostalgia buys. Also Zavok was in that game, also if i'm being blunt omega was in that game. They had mechanics she filled a role that worked for that kind of game. That does play into why i think her continued existence is tenuous. I don't think she's actively hated. Well more so than anyone else right? Like everyone hates some aspect of sonic these days for better or for worse. I think she's a worse position, she's aesthetically popular rather than tangibly popular.

The latter is a lot of more useful to corporations trying to make money. I think she is a character who's popularity never translated into anything tangible. She was never really all that popular in the first place. Along with her character not being strong enough to retain that sort of popularity over time like some others. 

I could explain myself further if you want? Maybe you don't want to have this discussion i'll leave this up to you.

I just feel like people are relying on " Well they appeared in X game " when sega can just... make them not appear in the future. And I think I have reason to suspect that maybe she wont be doing that if certain people get their way.

 

[Kuzu]

Oh so you're doing this psuedo-intellectual bullshit again that you have no actual frame of reference on beside your own opinion. Gotcha. Read all I needed to not participate in this. 

Rouge isn't going anywhere, and the nonsense you speak isn't going to change that. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Rouge had her chance to disappear completely in 2006 like most of the other cast.

If she’s still around in 2018-2020, then she’s clearly not going anywhere anytime soon. It’s especially telling when in that time frame, two of the most obscure characters, Mighty and Ray, were given a second lease of life and appeared in Mania when they were stated to never see the light of day otherwise, so let’s not start this case when reality has shown otherwise over the past decade.

[Shadowlax]

20 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Oh so you're doing this psuedo-intellectual bullshit again that you have no actual frame of reference on beside your own opinion. Gotcha. Read all I needed to not participate in this. 

This is rude as hell and doesn't speak well of you. Nothing I said was " pseudo-intellectioual " it was fairly easy to understand and based on my first hand experience working in entertainment to various degrees. If just don't care and think rouge will be around, say that and leave. But you being rude just proves you don't have a point. Because I actually do and can explain further. I just left it where it was because I can ramble and maybe the person i quoted doesn't want to return to a book.

 

Quote

Rouge isn't going anywhere, and the nonsense you speak isn't going to change that. 

That avatar is uh, something.

 

17 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Rouge had her chance to disappear completely in 2006 like most of the other cast.

If she’s still around in 2018-2020, then she’s clearly not going anywhere. It’s especially telling when in that time frame, two of the most obscure characters, Mighty and Ray, were given a second lease of life and appeared in Mania, so let’s not start this case when reality has shown otherwise over the past decade.

The thing is time continues? And characters can just...go away still. Also Mighty And Ray as you see are confined to a section of a franchise part of an initiative focus certain characters around certain sections of the franchise so each section and have characters that are identifiable and uniquely to them. I would use some of the comic originals as an example of this and sega's involvement in their creation. Doesn't mean they can't crossover in future but it does feel like their inclusion had very specific purpose.

Also if sega screws up doesn't make sonic mania 2 then they came back for 1 game and never returned because the devs asked nicely. Which would mean that they were never intended to return by sega would kind of negate your point. But that's in the future and hopefully sega doesn't screw that up.

[Diogenes]

Rouge is Shadow's Tails; she's probably in a safer spot than most of the cast, even though she's not the top tier of must-haves. As long as Shadow keeps appearing and there are games with more than just the few core characters, she'll likely stick around.

[Wraith]

The only real reason to be concerned about Rouge would be some sort of cast-wide reset, but there's no grounds to be worrying about that at this current juncture. There's no reason to single her out specifically, either. It's just fear-mongering.

[Kuzu]

I really kind of resent that phrase of "Shadow's Tails"...even if it's true. God I wish she interacted more with other characters. 

[thumbs13]

47 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

They needed bodies and team dark is a known entity that could possibly bring in nostalgia buys. Also Zavok was in that game, also if i'm being blunt omega was in that game. They had mechanics she filled a role that worked for that kind of game. That does play into why i think her continued existence is tenuous. I don't think she's actively hated. Well more so than anyone else right? Like everyone hates some aspect of sonic these days for better or for worse. I think she's a worse position, she's aesthetically popular rather than tangibly popular.

The latter is a lot of more useful to corporations trying to make money. I think she is a character who's popularity never translated into anything tangible. She was never really all that popular in the first place. Along with her character not being strong enough to retain that sort of popularity over time like some others. 

I could explain myself further if you want? Maybe you don't want to have this discussion i'll leave this up to you.

I just feel like people are relying on " Well they appeared in X game " when sega can just... make them not appear in the future. And I think I have reason to suspect that maybe she wont be doing that if certain people get their way.

 

That's the whole point. They need bodies and Sega's been super wary on adding new characters since 06.   Will Rouge appear in every game? No. Will Rouge appear in games with the secondary cast like Vector? Yeah, why wouldn't she? 

If you're saying we're never getting a Rouge the bat solo game, I agree, but I don't think that translates into anything else. She'll still be in every single Mario and Sonic game till the end of time, and I don't doubt she'll be in a cartoon or two either.

[Kuzu]

You could literally use this same logic of Rouge leaving for any other character; yet her and every other recurring character (barring Blaze) have been in the most recent mainline game, and still get featured artwork and spin off appearances. There's no reason to assume that these characters are in any kind of danger as of right now, and it's being needlessly paranoid over nothing. 

[Shadowlax]

55 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

That's the whole point. They need bodies and Sega's been super wary on adding new characters since 06.   Will Rouge appear in every game? No. Will Rouge appear in games with the secondary cast like Vector? Yeah, why wouldn't she? 

Here's the thing, Sega isn't one entity we should know with sonic in particularly different branches have different takes. And the western end of sega hasn't been so uh, restrictive with the addition to characters and whole versions of the franchise like the eastern parts are. And they haven't been conservative about excluding other's either.

Do they need bodies? I don't think so, one because TSR flopped. It didn't do well, part of that because it was a dedicated team game and people wanted to just pick people ago. There were people confused about the team marketing up until launch. People weren't actually into how it was presented. A solo racing affair with a more diverse section of characters ( and more of them ) along with more content would have probably done better.

I don't think they do need those bodies. And I think the western branch of sega understands this very well. Sonic while late to the part is treated by its western branches as an entity beyond just video games. And when sonic brand in the modern day really focused on being that, rouge's midsized aesthetic popularity soley within the fanbase became a lot less valuable.

Quote

Yeah, why wouldn't she?

Because they can focus on characters and things that actually translate into something tangible. Something they can profit off of. I don't think rouge is that, I don't think rouge was ever that. And I think rouge's absence did a number on her what popularity she had along with emphasizing what she lacked and what people didn't like about her. You said in a previous post " well who cares if some people think her design is weird" well people do . And while I have no solid proof I get the idea that somewhere there' some marketing data that suggests rouge's entire...everything pushes potential audience members away.  And I think to relate this to something else, its part of the reason some people really don't want team dark to be a thing anymore. It wasn't just them pushing a character they thought had value, but also them seeing two other ones who maybe didn't and not wanting to focus on them.

Rouge as a character doesn't really exist in a lot of modern children's entertainment. Even the carmen sandiego's she was inspired by have largely changed, the laura crofts and she hasn't. She's a bat out of time and I can see that being potentially off putting to a market western sega is going for , young girls. Young girls getting into action entertainment is a big market these days and a lot of money. And western sega really wants that market they changed amy's whole character to try and get that. The two new characters of note in boom who weren't villians were both women in sticks and percy and in the comic, tangle and whisper. Now this may be seem unrelated . However sticks was in games. And now tangle and whisper are in games.

And say you are an someone who works at a corperation and you just feel like that stubborn ol' eastern branch doesn't want to change the characters too much they want the to be a way. But you, you have been noticing trends and things changes in the market you think sonic has the potential through its characters to make a lot more money. But you don't have control over the games, you would have to convince the people who do , or more so the people who hold the purse strings that your way is best. So how do you do that, you introduce two hit characters in a thing you do have control of, the comic.  There's this character who to you is designed weird, she's like a spy mercenary type girl but she's weird an off putting in your audience focus tests. So you make your own spy merc girl. You make them look the best they can , they even get into video gamses. They are actually tangibly popular to the corporation.

So why wouldn't she be a body, because they found a new body. One that already seems more tangibly popular than the old body. But what about team dark? They aren't friends remember, shadow at this point doesn't canonically care if rouge and omega vanish. He's a lone wolf, they don't got no issue throwing random characters on random teams. I think if this comic to game transition is successful. I think over time there will be quite a few characters who aren't apart of the 7 to 8 they care about, may get replaced over time.

Someone at western sega has a vision of things and I have seen that vision play out before.

 

[calamityCons]

Sega of America with IDW are focused on making an engaging storyline that can whet the appetites of the fans who long for stories. Their primary focus as publishers and creators of a licensed comic book is to write a compelling tale that people enjoy. There are a lot of patterns being noticed here that I haven’t, and I appreciate that perspective. 

Personally I think the market has changed and that there is a point to be made about Rouge being “outdated.” She’s a femme fatale who uses sexuality as an angle toward getting what she wants, and in the nearly twenty years since her introduction a character like that could never really fit in with the child friendly comedy of the current Modern Sonic game canon. She CAN be portrayed comedically, but that isn’t what the fans are asking for. It’s lose-lose in a situation like this. 

[Kuzu]

When was the last time they played up the sexuality of Rouge's design? She's more of a spy and covert opt agent than how she used to be. Or to put it simpler; she's more Black Widow than Catwoman.

Once again, Rouge being on a potential chopping block literally no basis whatsoever as of right now. These points are based off assumptions and ideas that have literally not taken place in the series as of right now. 

If they do happen, fine. But the point is, nothing has actually happened. This idea that any of these characters are in any kind of potential danger in spite of the fact that they still make recurring appearances is frankly ridiculous. 

I can understand the general insecurity since none of these characters have had any particularly major roles in a long ass time, but once again. If they were ever going to drop Rouge or any other supporting character...they would have done so already. What makes this time frame any different from ten years ago? Rouge wasn't doing any more back then than she is right now, and in spite of nothing changing within the series itself, now suddenly and out of nowhere with no provocation, we're supposed to be wary that she's in any kind of danger of being cut and your basis for that is assumptions with no actual evidence. 

 

Yes, this is a ridiculous stance to have and I'm starting to feel like the lack of any Sonic news is making fans incredibly unstable about the series than they usually are.  Please stop worrying about this series so much and go focus on something else in the meantime. 

[iambitter21]

to add to this rouge argument, come on it's rouge the bat... you know, one of the most popular sonic characters for (insert erotic paragraph here). so of course she'll be okay.

[Strickerx5]

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Oh so you're doing this psuedo-intellectual bullshit again that you have no actual frame of reference on beside your own opinion. Gotcha. Read all I needed to not participate in this. 

Rouge isn't going anywhere, and the nonsense you speak isn't going to change that. 

If you don't want to engage with a discussion then don't. Chill before harsher actions are taken.

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Strickerx5 said:

If you don't want to engage with a discussion then don't. Chill before harsher actions are taken.

Understood, I apologize for my actions.

[Tornado]

lol Rouge isn't going anywhere. No one at Sega of America ever has any master plan that they can stick to for more than ten minutes before someone at SoJ slaps them for it; and as great as "straw feminist" and "female Dale Gribble" supposedly are for little girls who want action characters there are also probably people following the series who also want female characters who actually do action as their main thing.

[Celestia]

I don't see a significant amount of criticism of Rouge's design. I wouldn't really mind if there was, but it'd be strange to me considering she doesn't look the way her SA2 model does outside of fanart. She's really tame after that/Heroes' outfit.

[thumbs13]

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

I don't think they do need those bodies.

Then who are we supposed to play as? Is every character gonna be replaced with a Chao? The mobile games are so limited on characters they had to pull out dudes like Tikal because they got everyone important already. 

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

.

Rouge as a character doesn't really exist in a lot of modern children's entertainment. Even the carmen sandiego's she was inspired by have largely changed, the laura crofts and she hasn't. She's a bat out of time and I can see that being potentially off putting to a market western sega is going for , young girls. Young girls getting into action entertainment is a big market these days and a lot of money. And western sega really wants that market they changed amy's whole character to try and get that. The two new characters of note in boom who weren't villians were both women in sticks and percy and in the comic, tangle and whisper. Now this may be seem unrelated . However sticks was in games. And now tangle and whisper are in games.

 

Can't speak for Lara, but Carmen's been consistent over time. A thief who steals for the challenge and for bragging rights. 

Rouge has been greedy treasure hunter spy from the beginning and has stayed that way because none of those things have aged poorly. People like spies and treasure hunters. There's a super popular ducktales series airing right now. Black Widow's getting her own movie. And being outdated shouldn't be a problem for the Sonic series of all things. 

"Rouge isn't gonna be in games because think about the children" is a weird take in general, but way weirder in 2020 than it would have been in 2001. Like, all of the initial backlash to Rouge was years ago, once we got past the threshold, she's safe for life. 

And if Big couldn't be kicked out of the series for four years without a stink being made about it, do you think a character with a way larger fanbase who serves an actual role would ever get away with being cut?

Honestly, the biggest kicker for me is the fact that Sega's allowing her to be used in the comics. This wouldn't be a big deal in Archie, but IDW is in full advertising mode and anyone not completely relevant is banned for life. The comic cast is the game cast for the time being.