Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Mountaindewandsprite]

10 hours ago, Nergal said:

The problem with satam/archie/western sonic female characters and rouge's sa2 design was that they had humanoid porportions compared to the males who had spherical torsos and noodle-limb designs. the disparity was so obvious you couldn't help to notice it since it was an artstyle clash and an attempt to make the female characters appear sexy by making them look like reskinned humans. from an aesthetic and marketing viewpoint designs like that is a no-go since it doesn't particularly appeal to young girls and it kinda restricts your franchise to way too many furries instead of casual players/normies because y'know... who actually wants to see a hot anthro outside of that crowd?

Not to mention adding human hair.  I mean, we got this...

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_small/5/55582/2122340-salma.jpg

No way a chipmunk like Sally should have what looks like a wig, let alone a friggin reptile!

[Miles Storzillo]

Unpopular:

-I think Colors has the worst story in the series

-Sonic 06, while horrible, I’d play over any of the Classics

-Jason is my favorite Sonic and Roger is my least 

-Lost World has my favorite story of the post Unleashed main games

-I prefer Vector’s current voice to his previous

-Chip is my favorite of Sonic’s one-off partners

-Also, I like his English voice

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Unpopular opinion (I think) - overall, I really don't like Sonic's characterization during the era he was voiced by Jason Griffith. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a Sonic characterization I like less (though I guess there have probably been other characterizations with worse moments, but not as bad overall). He is usually bland and boring in this era, and comes across as a fairly generic hero. That's not who Sonic was designed to be.

[E-122-Psi]

2 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Unpopular opinion (I think) - overall, I really don't like Sonic's characterization during the era he was voiced by Jason Griffith. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a Sonic characterization I like less (though I guess there have probably been other characterizations with worse moments, but not as bad overall). He is usually bland and boring in this era, and comes across as a fairly generic hero. That's not who Sonic was designed to be.

Admittedly this is kinda true, I think it's because he's primarily linked to his X incarnation, who was one of the most idealised and unstoppable Sonics (or at least seldom had his character flaws treated as fallible qualities with repercussions), he barely felt human emotionally. The Storybook series and Riders tried to delve a bit further (we even saw Sonic's competitive temper return in the latter), but I think they were still a bit gentle touch about his character and how approachable they wanted to leave him.

Truthfully for all people moan about the modern era of Sonic, I have to say this is where I think Roger's run of Sonic works. While the writing and execution sometimes is poor, I think they cast the right balance there, he nearly always does a more fallible Sonic, one who gets his ego called out and undermined, and in some cases is even allowed to get frustrated and petty (hell Boom is one of the few cases you'll see Sonic 'lose' a story). At the same time I don't think they exaggerate this element of Sonic to the point he's unlikeable, and they still keep his chill nature and simple put insight to some degree. He's not as bad as in some interpretations where he nearly always has to be reigned in (though it might help he's surrounded by characters with similar childish and dysfunctional habits in the games and Boom world). His bond with Tails is also not something the writers treat as a given like the earlier writers did to ridiculous levels.

I think this is why I'm wary of the whole Rally4Sally thing, since I think giving Sonic a clear straight man risks tipping that balance and flanderizing him to punctuate their importance, especially with how easy it is to just go for the 'female foil is always smarter and better' cliche in simplistic writing. I feel like any interpretation Sally is in Sonic has to be made at least a little bit more of an idiot prone jerk, which I think isn't best at this point where he's JUST on the fine line.

[Kuzu]

I still don't care for Modern Sonic much; call me nostalgia biased, but there's really just nothing about current Sonic that's all that interesting unless you just like the jokes he tells. He's never put in situations that are particularly interesting, nor do his reactions to any of the things he faces are all that different. The one time they tried to give him a character arc in Lost World, they screwed it up by still trying to play him as a comedy act while also trying to evoke pathos and it just doesn't work. I don't find Sonic characters funny, stop trying to make them funny, it's not going to work. 

Like honestly, you can strike a balance with Sonic that's neither obnoxious to the point where I just don't wanna see him or him being as boring as a stale of bread. This doesn't have to be the either or thing that fans like to treat it as. 

 

 

I don't even know if this is still a popular opinion or not, but Black Knight still shows off Sonic's best traits to me, while still showing him as not as this all powerful good guy. He's still a flippant piece of shit, but he sticks up for what he believes regardless of what anyone thinks and that's really the spirit of the character distilled into its simplest form, and where the character's appeal lies to me. 

[StaticMania]

46 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

....stop trying to make them funny, it's not going to work. 

What?

This must be referring to all eras otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

The only  character they've been trying to make funny recently is Sonic himself, everyone else's shtick is the same as it ever was.

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

What?

This must be referring to all eras otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

The only  character they've been trying to make funny recently is Sonic himself, everyone else's shtick is the same as it ever was.

Sonic's literally the only character we get any focus on nowadays, everyone else may as well not really exist...

[Diogenes]

56 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I don't find Sonic characters funny, stop trying to make them funny, it's not going to work. 

Not even in Mania Adventures?

[Kuzu]

14 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Not even in Mania Adventures?

Comedy like that is fine, because it's born from the personality of the characters bouncing off each other; Mighty not knowing his strength and sending Ray flying? Fine, Sonic leaving Eggman to his own trap? Absolutely dickish and I love it. 

Here's how you don't do comedy; unfunny jokes that you have to explain to the audience with a "Wink wink get it" nudge to the audience. One does not feel anywhere near as forced.

[iambitter21]

oh thank goodness I can type here without seeing that post I made. with that being said, *ahem*

Unpopular Opinion: As much as Azoo and Milo had a good idea about how some fan games could make sonic work in 3d better in that "3d fangames problems" topic the other month, the whole "making sonic just a smidge faster than average platformers" thing is NOT one. I don't have a problem of slowing down sonic by a moderate bit in 3d fangames, as if you make him too fast than you'd have a small mirror to work with in both level design and hand-eye coordination, but making him the just above same speed as Mario's ground speed just sounds kinda... dumb, and it takes away too much of the original appeal of sonic the hedgehog. It shouldn't just be the "Illusion" or "Feeling" of speed, but the actual activity of swift and quick movements. If we're actually gonna slow sonic down, don't give him that low of a ground speed, just make it more akin to Sonic Islands 2019 for gods sake, even it has that speedy movement going on, while being slow enough to be containable.

Popular Opinion: Sonic is fun

[Miles Storzillo]

Popular

Roger is better off with Boom Sonic than Modern.  Unfortunately, Boom was cancelled.  Which is a shame, because it was a damn good show and I would’ve loved to see them use Lyric.

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

Here's how you don't do comedy; unfunny jokes that you have to explain to the audience with a "Wink wink get it" nudge to the audience.

Another guy's been saying this about the writing a lot for the recent games and...they may indulge on the jokes a bit too long in Colours.

But outside of Sonic's "Coool Pun", there's not much winking or explaining of jokes to the audience from what I recall.

Forces & TSR have also just dialed back on the "comedy" in general, so they aren't really trying.

[Wraith]

6 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Unpopular opinion (I think) - overall, I really don't like Sonic's characterization during the era he was voiced by Jason Griffith. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a Sonic characterization I like less (though I guess there have probably been other characterizations with worse moments, but not as bad overall). He is usually bland and boring in this era, and comes across as a fairly generic hero. That's not who Sonic was designed to be.

 

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I don't even know if this is still a popular opinion or not, but Black Knight still shows off Sonic's best traits to me, while still showing him as not as this all powerful good guy. He's still a flippant piece of shit, but he sticks up for what he believes regardless of what anyone thinks and that's really the spirit of the character distilled into its simplest form, and where the character's appeal lies to me. 

Black Knight characterizes Sonic well on it's own, but the problem with it and a lot of games in that era is that not enough friction is throw his way by the rest of the cast. Almost everyone who's not Sonic is explicitly in the wrong in some way or could learn a thing or two from his philosophy. Tails looks up to Sonic uncritically for most of the series and considers him a model for his own budding independence. Amy at her most independent has Sonic respecting her as an equal as a long term goal. Knuckles and Shadow experience some inner turmoil from their past that Sonic's 'keep moving forward', devil may care attitude could potentially fix. Blaze has a preference for working alone that only ever causes problems. Silver's implementation overall was  messy, but even there it's easy for me to tell that he's in over his head trying to be a hero and getting in the way of the guy who can actually solve the problem.

I think all of this is great on paper, but Sonic rarely gets anything out of these relationships in return since he's such a model citizen that is hilariously never misguided about anything.  Maybe Sonic is inspired by Knuckles to visit home sometimes or learn more about his roots. Maybe Sonic could learn to turn up his outward appreciation for Amy in response to her learning to tone it down. Maybe Sonic and Silver could have had one actual conversation at all after that misunderstanding. Obviously not every conflict in the series needs to be a 'both sides' situation, but there are obvious things they can do. They just choose not to do them. 

 I'm as big of a detractor of Lost World's story as anyone, but the fact that he even had to acknowledge that he was wrong about anything at all was refreshing and has the potential to make him a better character. I'm glad Sonic is a positive series about growth and morals but it needs to be a two way street for it to feel authentic. For the longest time there was a healthy amount of humbling going on for this cast with one notable exception. Black Knight is probably the most egregious example of this and thus probably my least favorite, but all of these games had this problem to some degree. 


 

[Miles Storzillo]

At this point I’m not even sure what the general consensus is regarding Sonic’s personality.  Do most people prefer him as a friendly and caring guy who loves adventure or a prick who mocks everything Eggman stands for (even though that was mostly just one game)?  Of course I know which side I’m on, but considering how often I see people arguing about this it’s kind of confusing.

 

[Kuzu]

6 hours ago, Wraith said:

 

Black Knight characterizes Sonic well on it's own, but the problem with it and a lot of games in that era is that not enough friction is throw his way by the rest of the cast. Almost everyone who's not Sonic is explicitly in the wrong in some way or could learn a thing or two from his philosophy. Tails looks up to Sonic uncritically for most of the series and considers him a model for his own budding independence. Amy at her most independent has Sonic respecting her as an equal as a long term goal. Knuckles and Shadow experience some inner turmoil from their past that Sonic's 'keep moving forward', devil may care attitude could potentially fix. Blaze has a preference for working alone that only ever causes problems. Silver's implementation overall was  messy, but even there it's easy for me to tell that he's in over his head trying to be a hero and getting in the way of the guy who can actually solve the problem.

I think all of this is great on paper, but Sonic rarely gets anything out of these relationships in return since he's such a model citizen that is hilariously never misguided about anything.  Maybe Sonic is inspired by Knuckles to visit home sometimes or learn more about his roots. Maybe Sonic could learn to turn up his outward appreciation for Amy in response to her learning to tone it down. Maybe Sonic and Silver could have had one actual conversation at all after that misunderstanding. Obviously not every conflict in the series needs to be a 'both sides' situation, but there are obvious things they can do. They just choose not to do them. 

 I'm as big of a detractor of Lost World's story as anyone, but the fact that he even had to acknowledge that he was wrong about anything at all was refreshing and has the potential to make him a better character. I'm glad Sonic is a positive series about growth and morals but it needs to be a two way street for it to feel authentic. For the longest time there was a healthy amount of humbling going on for this cast with one notable exception. Black Knight is probably the most egregious example of this and thus probably my least favorite, but all of these games had this problem to some degree. 


 

I can understand that and even agree with it to an extent, I just never saw that as a necessity for the character to function well at all. I did admit that I was nostalgia biased, but I never saw how positively Black Knight portrayed Sonic as really an issue at all, but I can understand people's preference for more flawed characters who have to learn to grow as well.  I feel like Sonic's position as the central figure of the franchise kind it of justifies somewhat, why he's usually the pillar for everyone else, but yes that's hokey, and incredibly cheesy, but I eat that shit right up. It can be written terribly though, and games like Forces show exactly why when nobody can accomplish anything when Sonic isn't around. It works for him as a mascot, but it doesn't make him much of a character.

Sonic's kind of in a weird position though; I feel like he's probably the most difficult to write for out of the entire cast if that makes sense. It's easy for a secondary character to be flawed and have to go through some positive change arc in some way, because they're usually not the main focus of the narrative; a character like Shadow, or hell, even Tails can be written as either an ally or an antagonist depending on the story you want to tell as they will facilitate conflict. 

But Sonic doesn't have that luxury, because as the protagonist, his actions (more often than not) should drive the narrative forward. Portrayed too negatively, then he'll come off as incredibly unlikable. Portrayed too positively, then he'll be unrelatable. It doesn't help that Sonic's background is intentionally left vague so the writers don't have to worry about that, but it creates a discrepancy where we know the least about our main character and what makes him tick.

And we're at a point where people either want a more relatable Sonic to empathize with, or that positive role model to look up to. 

5 minutes ago, Miles Storzillo said:

At this point I’m not even sure what the general consensus is regarding Sonic’s personality.  Do most people prefer him as a friendly and caring guy who loves adventure or a prick who mocks everything Eggman stands for (even though that was mostly just one game)?  Of course I know which side I’m on, but considering how often I see people arguing about this it’s kind of confusing.

 

People like different things about Sonic, due no in part to his personality bouncing all over the damn place; some like him as a sassy piece of shit who's kept in line by other, more restrained characters and he has to learn humility from them. Others like him as a positive role model to look up to as he influences the lives of everyone around him for the better. 

There's different things to like about Sonic. 

[Kuzu]

9 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Another guy's been saying this about the writing a lot for the recent games and...they may indulge on the jokes a bit too long in Colours.

But outside of Sonic's "Coool Pun", there's not much winking or explaining of jokes to the audience from what I recall.

Forces & TSR have also just dialed back on the "comedy" in general, so they aren't really trying.

Colors indulges in it, Lost World still has a fair bit of it.

Forces & TSR do tone it down I'll admit; but Forces is also boring as sin, and TSR is....honestly passable I'll admit. 

[E-122-Psi]

It's kinda why I feel if you put games together you get a good balanced Sonic. Black Knight alongside Lost Worlds (at least on paper) shows a three dimensional Sonic that is insightful and chill but also still capable of being arrogant and reckless. It maybe helps that while Sonic is more flawed in cases like Lost Worlds, they make clear it's not just a case of him being the 'team screw up' and the rest of the team just being the well behaved straight man (something I sometimes feel is the case with continuities like SatAm and the two comics). Everyone is fallible.

The 'X' direction where Sonic was on a constant pedestal and everyone who challenged him was inept and wrong was monotonous and I think left him kinda bland, but I like we haven't just gone into a full on role reversal and that things work more complex and fun when a large bulk of the cast are flawed and silly but still competent in their own way and take turns being the blundering fool or voice of reason. It's why I enjoyed Boom as well, a lot of the characters bounced off each other well there, even if some of the gags were pretty poor and forced.

We just need to get it running in stories that aren't completely and utterly lethargic. I kinda like the concept of TSR's silly story for example, where everyone (except Big of all people) is super suspicious of this weirdo. Too bad the cutscenes are.....well are they even cutscenes?

[Kuzu]

I just can't for the life of me see Lost World as anything beneficial to his character;  I understand what it was trying to do, I really do. But it handles it so badly that it leaves me not caring about it at all. The reason I give Black Knight so much credit is that it's consistent and accomplishes what it sets out to do. Does it make Sonic more than a little bland? Perhaps, but it at least deserves credit for taking it as far as it could go and  there's a reason it's a fan favorite portrayal. 

I'm not saying there is only one, singular way to portray Sonic and that others aren't valid, but it does feel like the games tend to flow a lot better when they lean more into the heroic side of the character.

Sonic Boom is a comedy, and sure it balances traits a lot better...but it sure as hell feels like they just removed all of the spirit and fun of the character, sure he's "relatable" but he's not fun or entertaining unless you just really love metacontextual humor and slice of life sitcom antics, and I acknowledge that is what people are generally into nowadays. It's just not my thing personally. 

The movie is the only piece of recent media that has managed to portray a more vulnerable Sonic, while still keeping the free spirit the character generally represents, but it's marred down of being stuck in by the numbers family film with little to do with the series it's based on. 

[iambitter21]

oh and also:

17 hours ago, Miles Storzillo said:

Unpopular:

-I think Colors has the worst story in the series

-Jason is my favorite Sonic and Roger is my least 

-Chip is my favorite of Sonic’s one-off partners

-Also, I like his English voice

You know these aren't really "unpopular" anymore, right? just saying, almost half of the sonic fanbase agree with this perspective.

[Wraith]

The thing Lost World tries to do with Sonic's impatience is done much better in other media like the comics or some of the shows so I don't think it's worth giving too much credit, but I figured it deserves a nod if we're talking about games only. The way the game goes on and on and on about fallibility  before dropping it toward the end is fucking obnoxious, but it's there. 

[Diogenes]

17 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I just can't for the life of me see Lost World as anything beneficial to his character;  I understand what it was trying to do, I really do. But it handles it so badly that it leaves me not caring about it at all. The reason I give Black Knight so much credit is that it's consistent and accomplishes what it sets out to do. Does it make Sonic more than a little bland? Perhaps, but it at least deserves credit for taking it as far as it could go and  there's a reason it's a fan favorite portrayal. 

Personally I'd say SatBK is in a similar boat of trying but not succeeding, because it tries to portray Sonic as a righteous rebel but nothing he does is ever even questionable; it's good to slay the king because he's an evil fake, it's good to stop and help the kid because it was a secret test anyway, it's good to fight Merlina because her plans involves monsters and bad shit and Sonic is just right.

[E-122-Psi]

14 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The thing Lost World tries to do with Sonic's impatience is done much better in other media like the comics or some of the shows so I don't think it's worth giving too much credit, but I figured it deserves a nod if we're talking about games only. The way the game goes on and on and on about fallibility  before dropping it toward the end is fucking obnoxious, but it's there. 

Admittedly yes. I mean I do think some of the SatAm/Archie cases do it well, but the problem is they kinda overdid it to the point of Aesop Amnesia, and with all the other characters (besides Antoine) being significantly less flawed and idiot prone, it really punctuated Sonic as this impetuous screw up who never learned.

That said I do think, even with the penchant for obnoxiously bad jokes, the games have a better hold of making Sonic arrogant and impulsive without making him a straight up egomaniacal jerk like several other interpretations do. There's still a playful but mature side to Sonic in Lost Worlds that I feel keeps him likeable.

[Kuzu]

9 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Personally I'd say SatBK is in a similar boat of trying but not succeeding, because it tries to portray Sonic as a righteous rebel but nothing he does is ever even questionable; it's good to slay the king because he's an evil fake, it's good to stop and help the kid because it was a secret test anyway, it's good to fight Merlina because her plans involves monsters and bad shit and Sonic is just right.

And ya know what, that's a completely fair criticism. But I feel that doesn't damage Sonic's character anywhere near as much. Does it take some bite out of the supposed consequences it presents? Absolutely, but it still ultimately portrays Sonic in a positive light. At worst, it's a copout and just really boring. Lost World at worst, makes Sonic look really bad and that's a lot worse. 

5 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Admittedly yes. I mean I do think some of the SatAm/Archie cases do it well, but the problem is they kinda overdid it to the point of Aesop Amnesia, and with all the other characters (besides Antoine) being significantly less flawed and idiot prone, it really punctuated Sonic as this impetuous screw up who never learned.

That said I do think, even with the penchant for obnoxiously bad jokes, the games have a better hold of making Sonic arrogant and impulsive without making him a straight up egomaniacal jerk like several other interpretations do. There's still a playful but mature side to Sonic in Lost Worlds that I feel keeps him likeable.

I find it incredibly ironic that you advocate for a more fallible and vulnerable Sonic, but only when other characters don't look better than him. Because that's kind of what I get from these readings; Sonic should be fallible, but nobody is allowed to be better than him despite that. 

[Diogenes]

7 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

And ya know what, that's a completely fair criticism. But I feel that doesn't damage Sonic's character anywhere near as much. Does it take some bite out of the supposed consequences it presents? Absolutely, but it still ultimately portrays Sonic in a positive light. At worst, it's a copout and just really boring. Lost World at worst, makes Sonic look really bad and that's a lot worse. 

I'll take interesting over boring any day.

[Wraith]

I don't really have a strong preference here. At least Black Knight's cutscenes are pretty?