Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Blue Blood]

Regarding the Werehog, I always thought that it would have been fun and pretty fitting if he played more like either Adventure Sonic or like Classic Sonic would when Generations eventually rolled around. There's no reason he couldn't have played that way, with the addition of a simple stretchy-arms punch/grab move used in much the same way it's already used in Unleashed. No need for the gameplay to revolve around prolonged combat encounters.

The Werehog in Unleashed isn't even bad. The design of his as a character is incredibly cool in my opinion and dicotomy between the day and night stages is a really fun idea on paper. But they took it way too far. You go from a very original, high-speed platformer in the day time stages to a rather cookie-cutter, button-masher, beat-em-up generic platformer at night time. It's not bad per se, but it's bland and gives the player severe case of mood whiplash. Rise of Lyric is an example of the same genre as the Werehog, but done a million times worse.

When you alternate between the different playstyles in the Adventure games, '06, Generations and Forces, you're still playing gameplay styles that all feel like they're cut from the same cloth (apart from Big who's subject to a hefty amount of criticism for it, and Silver to somewhat lesser extent). The Werehog isn't as good as the day time levels and plays like a totally different genre. That strange juxtaposition makes the Werehog seem terrible, but when taken entirely on its own merits is pretty inoffensive. I'd go as far as to say that the Werehog gameplay is arguably the most fleshed out and well developed of the alternate gameplay styles that the series has ever seen. The crime that it commits is that it just doesn't belong in a Sonic game, especially Unleashed.

Generations provided a great dicotomy between the Modern Sonic boost gameplay and the Classic Sonic retreaux gameplay. You had fast and extra fast. 3D (mostly) and 2D. Unleashed just took it one step too far and suffered hard for it. 

[Miles Storzillo]

3 hours ago, knuckles20 said:

I consider Sonic X my favorite of Sonic cartoons. And that includes the English dub.

Yeah I’m aware of 4kids “protecting” the children from the horrors of guns, blood, alcohol, sexuality and rice balls and I have nothing against the sub version but when it comes to anime in general, if it’s available in English that’s how I’m gonna watch. Plus it doesn’t help that sub elitists have been on my nerves for years.

Finally, I’ve always been a dub watcher and never really thought about edits.  Although I will say at times there’s some stuff in the sub that could be extremely hard to watch.  You guys ever watched episode 75 of Yugioh Vrains?  

[KnuxDLX]

I really loved Big the Cat’s gameplay, story, and missions in Adventure. 
 

I thought he brought the chill out vibe that that game was going for with its free roaming gameplay and scenic locales.

 

I guess it was too casual for some fans, though. Lol

[espio]

i’ll never understand why people hate sonic’s cast or think that there’s “too many”

i think most of the cast are actually dope , fun to play & more interesting than sonic himself like i’d choose playing as tails , knuckles , silver etc over sonic any day

also imo sonic riders (the first one) is one of the best racing games the only problem was the learning curve but other than that it’s actually really fun and mario kart + ctr aren’t even close to its level

 

[Silvereyes]

On 12/12/2020 at 6:09 PM, Miles Storzillo said:

You guys ever watched episode 75 of Yugioh Vrains?  

That the episode where

Earth is killed?

That was pretty brutal, but to be honest, I can't say I'd imagine switching over to the dub of VRAINS, especially when the dubbing studio still uses 4Kids style censorship.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, KnuxDLX said:

I really loved Big the Cat’s gameplay, story, and missions in Adventure. 
 

I thought he brought the chill out vibe that that game was going for with its free roaming gameplay and scenic locales.

 

I guess it was too casual for some fans, though. Lol

Just wish it revolved around something other than fishing. Hell he shoulda just caught the fish with his bare hands or mouth, that woulda been better.

[KnuxDLX]

2 hours ago, Angyu said:

Just wish it revolved around something other than fishing. Hell he shoulda just caught the fish with his bare hands or mouth, that woulda been better.

I DO love the fishing though!

 

It was super unique and complex. Well, it was really hard at first but then really easy to figure out. 
 

The stages were trippy as! The ones at Emerald Coast and Ice Cap are so memorable. One for being ridiculously simple and the other for being atmospherically, climactically cinematic. Chromatic? 
 

idk it was just really cool and I vividly remember it which is kind of rare for me

[E-122-Psi]

I didn't mind Big's campaign, though I found it a bit too simple, the fishing is like a minigame, not enough to give depth to the gameplay each time. There should have been more actual platforming leading up to the fishing segment. Like maybe make Big play more like a laid back version of his Heroes gameplay with a body slam and more effective fishing throw, and have a small chill route where you can smash enemies and such before getting to the fishing.

It feels a lot like some of the levels were SUPPOSED to play like this originally, given the unutilised pathway in a lot of them, maybe they thought the fishing alone was too much for some players.

 

Okay this is a weird one, but I think I kinda prefer movie Sonic's non-cyclops face design. I just think Sonic can get a much better array of expressions with it, while the games design he has that perpetual furrowed look. Seeing Sonic with a dopey or downright innocent doe eyed expression just gives a new charm to him (granted this might not be just down to the 'cyclops' design in general, classic Amy could have an innocent look but then they homogenised her to have a similar 'perpetually furrowed' expression too).

I get this is kinda hypocritical of me though since I'm usually very uptight about changing facial designs (to compare I just don't think Sally ever looked like the same character when they gave her Cream's eye pattern instead of her original 'Bambi' ones).

[Guest]

20 hours ago, KnuxDLX said:

stages were trippy as! The ones at Emerald Coast and Ice Cap are so memorable. One for being ridiculously simple and the other for being atmospherically, climactically cinematic. Chromatic? 

 

idk it was just really cool and I vividly remember it which is kind of rare for me

I did enjoy his little stage areas too- rather sandboxy in a way, much like mini Mario 64 levels.

[Mountaindewandsprite]

Popular: The Classic and Modern being different dimensions, and thus applying to the comics as well as the games is bullshit.

SEGA is seriously limiting their own creativity with stupid mandates such as this. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Characters like Mighty, Ray, Fang, Bean, and Bark can't appear in the IDW comics because of this. I can accept that those five won't be in any Modern Sonic games, but c'mon. They can't be in the comics?!

 

[espio]

11 hours ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

Popular: The Classic and Modern being different dimensions, and thus applying to the comics as well as the games is bullshit.

SEGA is seriously limiting their own creativity with stupid mandates such as this. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Characters like Mighty, Ray, Fang, Bean, and Bark can't appear in the IDW comics because of this. I can accept that those five won't be in any Modern Sonic games, but c'mon. They can't be in the comics?!

 

it feels like they mostly did that out of laziness so they’d have an excuse not to re-design or bring back any of the “classic” characters in modern games 

[Mountaindewandsprite]

6 hours ago, espio said:

it feels like they mostly did that out of laziness so they’d have an excuse not to re-design or bring back any of the “classic” characters in modern games 

They games, I can somewhat understand, but applying it to the comics is just dumb.

[Diogenes]

If it was just a matter of not wanting to use the characters they could just continue not using them, as they have for years. They made the split because they wanted the two different versions of "Sonic" to have more clearly defined identities and boundaries instead of being vague mush.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Only to make it even more vague mush.

Prior to the whole Two Worlds thing, this was never a problem to begin with.

[Wraith]

My guess is that focus testing lead them to believe there's a sizable amount of older Sonic fans that don't care for the new stuff. I don't think there was any artistic integrity in this decision. It's clearly being guided by feedback and profit margins, as always. 

That doesn't make it inherently a bad decision for the brand, but if it was supposed to lead to an increased sense of focus for either "version" of Sonic that hasn't really panned out. I'm still getting really bright cartoon platformers of varying quality with humorous offshoot shorts on either end of it and there's so much crossover of iconography, characters, art style and tropes that I have to wonder who this move was for. I figure Shadow, Rouge, Silver etc have got to be the deal-breakers for some, but is having a couple characters you don't like hanging aruond in the back really a deal breaker for that many people? Like, there's the obvious purist segment of the fanbase but I doubt they're enough to profit off of on their own. 

I'll become a fan of the split when Modern Sonic takes the opportunity to go off the deep end again without any obligation to it's "roots". Until then it seems unnecessary. 

[Diogenes]

12 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Only to make it even more vague mush.

Prior to the whole Two Worlds thing, this was never a problem to begin with.

The series' inconsistent identity was a problem for years before the two worlds thing came about. I'm not going to claim they've solved it by any stretch, but it's at least an attempt to set some boundaries.

[Kuzu]

11 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The series' inconsistent identity was a problem for years before the two worlds thing came about. I'm not going to claim they've solved it by any stretch, but it's at least an attempt to set some boundaries.

But as Wraith mentioned, who is this split exactly for? Younger fans are likely not going to care what Sonic looks like, so is it for the older fanbase who just can't stand anything from Modern Sonic? And if that's the case, what is segregating this series into arbitrary subsections actually accomplishing beyond just satisfying said subsect who can't stand seeing Silver on screen for one second. 

It's a change that is rightfully called out for being completely unnecessary and doesn't actually address the series` identity issues. 

[Diogenes]

11 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

But as Wraith mentioned, who is this split exactly for?

In an ideal world, everyone. Fans of classic Sonic can have classic Sonic stuff without modern Sonic stuff involved. Fans of modern Sonic can have modern Sonic stuff continue its own course without needing to appeal to classic fans. Fans of both get both. Of course Sega and Sonic Team are incompetent so it isn't actually working but it's not a completely untenable idea.

[Wraith]

27 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

But as Wraith mentioned, who is this split exactly for?

I was talking about the the current implementation of a split where we're essentially getting Classic Sonic and Classic Sonic lite. If they start leaning harder on what modern fans want then it could work out. I can get tight throwback 2d platformers and the 3D story based stuff with the more experimental mechanics and action setpieces I've been missing. Modern Sonic might even be able to get even more ambitious than before if Classic fans are well fed by something else instead. 

[Kuzu]

31 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

In an ideal world, everyone. Fans of classic Sonic can have classic Sonic stuff without modern Sonic stuff involved. Fans of modern Sonic can have modern Sonic stuff continue its own course without needing to appeal to classic fans. Fans of both get both. Of course Sega and Sonic Team are incompetent so it isn't actually working but it's not a completely untenable idea.

 

19 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I was talking about the the current implementation of a split where we're essentially getting Classic Sonic and Classic Sonic lite. If they start leaning harder on what modern fans want then it could work out. I can get tight throwback 2d platformers and the 3D story based stuff with the more experimental mechanics and action setpieces I've been missing. Modern Sonic might even be able to get even more ambitious than before if Classic fans are well fed by something else instead. 

 

But do you need the whole "two dimensions" thing to really accomplish that? Because we got 2D games and experimental 3D games before, and characters from all sects of the franchise were able to transition fine without needing to make an arbitrary line in the sand to segregate them.

So I ask once again, is this segregation of Classic and Modern Sonic really truly necessary for the series right now? Because the only reason it exists is because of Sega's bungling of game quality for 20 odd years. Had the series not went the way it did, would it have still been necessary to do so, and is it necessary for the series to establish itself like this for the foreseeable future.

[Wraith]

1 minute ago, Kuzu said:

But do you need the whole "two dimensions" thing to really accomplish that? Because we got 2D games and experimental 3D games before, and characters from all sects of the franchise were able to transition fine without needing to make an arbitrary line in the sand to segregate them.

 

We don't need it but if it keeps Classic fans quiet and takes some of the chains off modern Sonic then I welcome it. I've argued before that you can please both camps with the same product but if Sega doesn't think so we might as well make the best of this setup. 

[E-122-Psi]

It felt like it was just pandering to the 'multiverse' fad that nearly every franchise is appealing to now since it makes their universe seem more complicated and sophisticated than it really is.

 

Here's another one that I think is unpopular: While I do think making Antoine more than just comic relief was a good idea in Archie, I feel the way they went about it was too generic. Making Antoine more serious and homogenised with the other well behaved members of the Freedom Fighters kinda takes away his main appeal. Him being humbled and learning to better behaved is good in doses sure, but I feel like they should have maybe tried a Kung Fu Panda type story about him weaponising his silly quirks to upgrade him too, so's he would branch out in a way that was still distinctive from everyone else. Like Sonic is competent but still egomaniacal and goes about things in his own bombastic way, so why not Antoine? Hell if anything you'd think actually getting some moments of vindication would fuel Antoine's pride a bit more.

Instead Antoine just kinda felt in the background in a lot of later Archie, doing his job okay, but mostly just another soldier taking out grunts in the background in a generic way, with maybe the odd superfluous panel of him with a cowardly or pompous look to suggest he still had a personality of his own but is no longer key to the plot.

I think this was something that was the detriment of the likes of Amy in modern takes as well, that to make them more competent, they had to strip them of their defining foibles and quirks and make them more well behaved, serious and homogenised, rather than taking said quirks and using them in a clever way to make them stand out (which was arguably what they had begun doing with Amy in the Adventure era). I mean yes, Sonic stories can have serious moments of development, but they are still about cartoon animals that weaponise their strange design quirks like tails that can form into propellers or giant claw like knuckles. It should savour the quirkiness of these characters rather than try to normalise them in that regard since that is what helps with their agency, it doesn't mean they have to stay one note comic relief.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Kuzu said:

So I ask once again, is this segregation of Classic and Modern Sonic really truly necessary for the series right now? Because the only reason it exists is because of Sega's bungling of game quality for 20 odd years. Had the series not went the way it did, would it have still been necessary to do so, and is it necessary for the series to establish itself like this for the foreseeable future.

I mean.

We exist in the world where Sega did fuck things up with the series for 2 decades.

We don't get to choose to live in one where they didn't, where some kind of shift in how the series is handled wouldn't have been necessary.

I'm not going to say this specific change was the only way to do things but something had to be done and on paper it was a reasonable enough way to approach it. Pondering how things might've been in a completely different hypothetical situation doesn't seem very productive.

[Kuzu]

21 minutes ago, Wraith said:

We don't need it but if it keeps Classic fans quiet and takes some of the chains off modern Sonic then I welcome it. I've argued before that you can please both camps with the same product but if Sega doesn't think so we might as well make the best of this setup. 

I'm almost positive that if we got a 2D game that uses Modern aesthetics while still retaining the spirit of the classics, they would shut the fuck up and leave well enough alone, particularly if it was actually good. You know how I know that, because we literally got exactly that in the previous decade with the Advance titles :V

That's obviously not gonna happen under current circumstances, but I am starting to believe we're not as unpleasable as I'm generally led to think we are. Like yea, Sonic fans are obnoxious pieces of shit, but a good game is a good game and haters just gotta hold it. Classic fans liked Generations well enough, and Modern fans liked Mania well enough. 

15 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I mean.

We exist in the world where Sega did fuck things up with the series for 2 decades.

We don't get to choose to live in one where they didn't, where some kind of shift in how the series is handled wouldn't have been necessary.

I'm not going to say this specific change was the only way to do things but something had to be done and on paper it was a reasonable enough way to approach it. Pondering how things might've been in a completely different hypothetical situation doesn't seem very productive.

My feelings are generally that, like many of Sega's responses to the state of the series, it is ultimately a solution to a problem that could have easily been fixed with something simpler and less drastic, and will potentially lead to larger problems down the future. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have did it, but that its not the solution that they think it is, it's a band-aid essentially. 

But this is Sega we're talking about, so expecting them to understand is unlikely and they'll just continue down this path regardless. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

The series' inconsistent identity was a problem for years before the two worlds thing came about. I'm not going to claim they've solved it by any stretch, but it's at least an attempt to set some boundaries.

Not to the extent it is now.

And considering how continuity has been affected when people could at least map the timeline of things, it’s even more of a far cry to call this setting boundaries when people have problems identifying where they start and end. Things weren’t perfect before Two Worlds, but Two Worlds definitely worsened it more than you’re making it out to be.