Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[DabigRG]

59 minutes ago, Snowragnarok said:

We have seen from Sonic Lost World that this is most likely nothing more than an excuse/euphemism for not wanting to do it.

To be fair, Lost did technically have Tails, Orbot, and Cubot's head be playable in certain points and it's not like that was sustainable given the story and level design.

[Multikaris]

Am I the only one who thinks Espio would be cooler if he had a third eye?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parietal_eye

 

It would not only reflect the mystical aspects of his character, it would also be scientifically accurate as well. Maybe even make it look more like a real chameleon eye. 
 

And about the Six, they at least, after their initial defeats, managed to make underdogs of themselves and pull one up on Sonic. The same can’t be said for later villains... 

I think if the Sonic Eraser music had better instruments it wouldn’t be bad.  

[Miles Storzillo]

I think Shadow the Hedghehog and (to a MUCH higher degree) Black Knight are better than the Classics.  Also, I never cared much for Classic Sonic’s gameplay in Generations (take a wild guess why).

Btw, reading some of these reminded me.  Is it possible to take back everything from Eggman in Forces?  If you don’t count the missions I literally 100% the whole game.  I got all the Red, Moon, and Number Rings as well as S Ranking every single level along with the Secret/Bonus Levels, yet I have 119.99% while Eggman still has .1%.

[knuckles20]

13 hours ago, Natie said:

I'd say to hold off on the alt play styles until they make the main 3D Sonic gameplay actually work first for once.

People have been using that worn out excuse since Colors, and their solution to “3D” Sonic is to shove in as many 2D sections as possible. So forgive me for whatever patience I have left for wanting to play as other characters is running low.

[Multikaris]

4 hours ago, knuckles20 said:

People have been using that worn out excuse since Colors, and their solution to “3D” Sonic is to shove in as many 2D sections as possible. So forgive if whatever patience I have left for wanting to play as other characters is running low.

Not to mention the various bits of one-time insanity in Lost World. Donut levels aside, we have making apple juice, rolling snowballs, matching blocks, and other garden-logic experiences. 

[BadBehavior]

Yeah Lost World makes Crash: Wrath of Cortex look consistent.

Forces was only a marginal improvement, you had the 3 playstyles (3 1/2 if you count the tag team stages) and the only Lost Worldism I can think of for Forces is the water slide sections. Even in the absolute nadir of Forces stages (the auto scrolling in Iron Fortress, Modern Luminous Forest), you're still doing what you're doing for the most of the game.

[Natie]

22 hours ago, Snowragnarok said:

We have seen from Sonic Lost World that this is most likely nothing more than an excuse/euphemism for not wanting to do it.

14 hours ago, knuckles20 said:

People have been using that worn out excuse since Colors, and their solution to “3D” Sonic is to shove in as many 2D sections as possible. So forgive me for whatever patience I have left for wanting to play as other characters is running low.

I said till they make it actually work. As in, make sure your fundamental core gameplay concept is good in the first place before trying to make alternate spins on it. It's a fundamental game design process, no amount of characters is going to fix a bad game. How you read that as "Sonic-only will fix everything" is seriously confusing me. That statement is no more true than "adding Sonic's friends will fix everything".

I'm simply hoping they actually focus on making a game that is fun at it's core before going wild with ideas or just piling the usual gimmick crutches (2D, additional characters, alternate Sonics, like every act in Lost World, ect).

 

 

[knuckles20]

30 minutes ago, Natie said:

I said till they make it actually work. As in, make sure your fundamental core gameplay concept is good in the first place before trying to make alternate spins on it. It's a fundamental game design process, no amount of characters is going to fix a bad game. How you read that as "Sonic-only will fix everything" is seriously confusing me. That statement is no more true than "adding Sonic's friends will fix everything.

As I said before, I’ve heard this “we need to get Sonic right” numerous times since 2010 and for me that grace period should have ended after Generations. It’s become one of many pet peeves in relation to Sonic because I find it to be really damn pathetic how a company like Sega had more than enough time to make a single character work in 3D. Here’s a hint: actually work on the 3D gameplay instead of being reliant on 2D sections because you want a free pass from the Classic purists.

I don’t expect having the characters playable to fix everything,I keep asking for their playable status because I had way more fun with the games with their inclusion as opposed to making them into non active NPC’s that can’t do anything but kiss the blue hedgehog’s ass. And this display of degradation of my favorite characters (along with other gripes I have with the games) has been going on for far too long.

[StaticMania]

26 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

actually work on the 3D gameplay instead of being reliant on 2D sections because you want a free pass from the Classic purists.

That's not why those sections exist.

Maybe in lost world tho..

[Natie]

9 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

As I said before, I’ve heard this “we need to get Sonic right” numerous times since 2010 and for me that grace period should have ended after Generations. It’s become one of many pet peeves in relation to Sonic because I find it to be really damn pathetic how a company like Sega had more than enough time to make a single character work in 3D. Here’s a hint: actually work on the 3D gameplay instead of being reliant on 2D sections because you want a free pass from the Classic purists.

Yes...? Nobody can deny they've been doing it wrong, still? That's the whole problem, like you said, the 2D is a crutch because they don't know how to make a 3D Sonic fulfilling, so they just avoid it and put something else in to pad it out (and let's drop the pretense that classic fans actually liked stuff like Sonic 4 and stiff 2D sections in boost games. It's because they're faster and easier to develop).

Think of my statement more like "I want Sonic's friends to fluidly work along with a strong and fun core gameplay style like they did in times gone by." 

20 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

I don’t expect having the characters playable to fix everything,I keep asking for their playable status because I had way more fun with the games with their inclusion as opposed to making them into non active NPC’s that can’t do anything but kiss the blue hedgehog’s ass. And this display of degradation of my favorite characters (along with other gripes I have with the games) has been going on for far too long.

You had fun with those best examples because those overall games were decent at worst. In Mania, Sonic's pals all fluidly bring something unique to a gameplay style that's already good. But when it comes to stuff like 06', all those characters don't really save it.

I'm not IGN or whatever, I like those characters too, but this is the modern era, where ST have been cramming whatever gimmick they can think of into their games as a crutch rather than figuring out how to make their games good in the first place. If they read a lot of these posts, they'd think "oh, they want characters!" and shoehorn them in badly, making it no better than all those other lazy gimmicks, and please none of us.

I'm not going "Sonic's friends are shitty!" I'm saying "Ensure your game has potential so they can be integrated in a good way, first!"

[knuckles20]

2 hours ago, StaticMania said:

That's not why those sections exist.

Maybe in lost world tho..

Then tell me what good reason for titles that get the 3D game label need 2D sections that make up the majority of the game?

They’re practically trying to pass off Big Macs and Whoppers as Vegan sandwiches 

[StaticMania]

Just now, knuckles20 said:

Then tell me what good reason for titles that get the 3D game label need 2D sections that make up the majority of the game?

They’re practically trying to pass of Big Macs and Whoppers as Vegan sandwiches 

 

4 minutes ago, Natie said:

It's because they're faster and easier to develop

ya know

[Natie]

15 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

ya know

Yeah most of this all comes down to "Sonic Team is being cheap and stupid" so we all might not have as much disagreement between each other as expected lol

 

[knuckles20]

48 minutes ago, Natie said:

 You had fun with those best examples because those overall games were decent at worst. In Mania, Sonic's pals all fluidly bring something unique to a gameplay style that's already good. But when it comes to stuff like 06', all those characters don't really save it.

You calling them decent doesn't change that my stance that the 2000's games were the best the games had to offer. I have no interest in Mania mainly because of the "only the classic games are good" stigma critics and purists smothered with it and I refuse to feed into that mentality. I don't care how flawless the classic games are, what I want is 3D Sonic games that are actually fun for me and that hasn't happened since Unleashed.

Don't take this as me hating 2D. My favorite 2D titles are Rush and Rush Adventure. Yeah I know the boost is included in those games but I don't consider it as game breaking in comparison to the "3D" counterparts.

Quote

I'm not going "Sonic's friends are shitty!" I'm saying "Ensure your game has potential so they can be integrated in a good way, first

You saying this doesn't change that I've heard this sentiment starting with Colors and it came up again with Generations.

And with Lost World.

And with Forces.

And now we're near the end of 2020 and I'm hearing this track again. And the only benefit is that I haven't at gave my money to games that stripped away everything that initially got me into Sonic games.

 

[Wraith]

1 hour ago, Natie said:

 

I'm not IGN or whatever, I like those characters too, but this is the modern era, where ST have been cramming whatever gimmick they can think of into their games as a crutch rather than figuring out how to make their games good in the first place. If they read a lot of these posts, they'd think "oh, they want characters!" and shoehorn them in badly, making it no better than all those other lazy gimmicks, and please none of us.

I'm not going "Sonic's friends are shitty!" I'm saying "Ensure your game has potential so they can be integrated in a good way, first!"

They should be seeing these posts and thinking about how to implement other characters because that is what we want. They can nail down a solid 3D platformer and provide alternate characters at the same time. These aren't things that need to happen in two different 3 year dev cycles. 

[Kuzu]

Sonic Team being incapable of making good video games does not mean that the idea of having multiple playable characters is inherently flawed. There's no particular reason that you can't have a solid foundation for a 3D platformer, and then add characters that supplement that style. 

Sega have just been fucking this up for so many years that the fandom has kind of created a false dichotomy that doesn't actually exist. No, we don't have to choose between a good game or multiple playable characters, you can have both. 

Now whether Sega will ever actually deliver on that is another conversation. 

[Natie]

24 minutes ago, Wraith said:

They can nail down a solid 3D platformer and provide alternate characters at the same time. These aren't things that need to happen in two different 3 year dev cycles. 

Good lord you guys, this is exactly what I'm trying to say. Yes! They should nail a good 3D platformer then add the gimmicks and characters! You're correct! But that's not what Sonic Team has been doing! They've been prioritizing gimmicks *first* and making mediocre games around it, Sonic has still been stiff and unfulfilling regardless of how many wacky ideas they've been trying to push. If you put too much focus solely on "yeah add a million characters!", they're just gonna focus on character quantity more than making said characters good or necessary, just like every other alt playstyle since Unleashed.

I just wanted to make a cautionary reminder about priorities 

1 hour ago, knuckles20 said:

You calling them decent doesn't change that my stance that the 2000's games were the best the games had to offer.

My man... I said "decent at worst"... y-you do know that's a pretty big compliment, right?

1 hour ago, knuckles20 said:

You saying this doesn't change that I've heard this sentiment starting with Colors and it came up again with Generations.

And with Lost World.

And with Forces.

And now we're near the end of 2020 and I'm hearing this track again. And the only benefit is that I haven't at gave my money to games that stripped away everything that initially got me into Sonic games.

Yes I'm sure me saying that doesn't change the fact that you've heard completely unrelated people say something else.

But if you're gonna reply to me I'd like that you'd at least respond to what I'm actually saying and not about your long running forum critic trauma.

EDIT:

Quote

There's no particular reason that you can't have a solid foundation for a 3D platformer, and then add characters that supplement that style. 

Yes thank you for describing exactly what my original post suggested they do. This is getting extremely silly.

[knuckles20]

36 minutes ago, Natie said:

Yes I'm sure me saying that doesn't change the fact that you've heard completely unrelated people say something else.

What you’re saying isn’t all that different from what I’ve heard from others in previous years. It all boils down to “Sega needs a embarrassing amount of time on a single aspect before using things I like about the games”. All that time and nothing to show for it.

 

Also, don’t know if it was me being naturally defensive after so many years or typing so late at night I read post as read you post as decent at best as opposed to worst

[Multikaris]

To be fair, the later playable character attempts in Forces either use a blank slate or last for about 10 minutes total. The Boom series is... Boom. Mania is your best bet, sadly, even if the situation has improved very slightly since Lost World.

[Natie]

1 hour ago, knuckles20 said:

Also, don’t know if it was me being naturally defensive after so many years or typing so late at night I read post as read you post as decent at best as opposed to worst

Don't sweat it, I'm realizing my well meaning statement might have unearthed some baggage for most of you.

I want multiple characters! I just don't want them to be wasted on another cheap poorly planned game.

[Wraith]

6 hours ago, Natie said:

Good lord you guys, this is exactly what I'm trying to say. Yes! They should nail a good 3D platformer then add the gimmicks and characters! You're correct! But that's not what Sonic Team has been doing! They've been prioritizing gimmicks *first* and making mediocre games around it, Sonic has still been stiff and unfulfilling regardless of how many wacky ideas they've been trying to push. If you put too much focus solely on "yeah add a million characters!", they're just gonna focus on character quantity more than making said characters good or necessary, just like every other alt playstyle since Unleashed.

I just wanted to make a cautionary reminder about priorities 

 

"The game should play well first" is just such an obvious thing that it's not worth bringing up to me. Who doesn't want their Sonic game to play well? 

[Miles Storzillo]

I know what I’m getting myself into, but I don’t really care anymore.  I don’t  find Mania (or any of the Classics really) as the best with different characters in the slightest.  In fact, I’d probably call them the worst in that regard.  Well, unless you want to count Chronicles, but that’s an RPG.  Regardless, I would explain why but then I would be a broken record.  And after all the complaining I did with Sonic Colors this year, I think I’d like that to stop.

[Natie]

9 hours ago, Wraith said:

Who doesn't want their Sonic game to play well?

The developers :v

[Shadow Chaos Control]

On 12/17/2020 at 10:35 PM, Miles Storzillo said:

I think Shadow the Hedghehog and (to a MUCH higher degree) Black Knight are better than the Classics.  Also, I never cared much for Classic Sonic’s gameplay in Generations (take a wild guess why).

Btw, reading some of these reminded me.  Is it possible to take back everything from Eggman in Forces?  If you don’t count the missions I literally 100% the whole game.  I got all the Red, Moon, and Number Rings as well as S Ranking every single level along with the Secret/Bonus Levels, yet I have 119.99% while Eggman still has .1%.

Shadow The Hedgehog had so  much potential. Sigh. 

[Nathan]

It did now sega will never make a spin off game for silver or tails because they failed once and never try it again