Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[VO.SUPER]

Sonic still controls like ass when you just want to platform with him. In the Sonic Adventure Era, I could at least platform with him, but at the cost of barely being able to control him when he's at mach speed. Then this era comes, and it's the bloody opposite problem. Sonic turns too wide when you just want to walk or adjust yourself, and his jumps are stilted as all hell, and thus the platforming divulges into basic shit that would make Pit Fall feel embarrassed.

Edited November 26, 2012 by VisionaryBlur

[Platinumb]

True, Sonic's current gameplay takes away too much of the interactivity of the video game, making it too much like a movie. It bothers me a bit when playing SA2(even though I'm not too fond of that game) and experiencing the interactivity of the game by flipping switches and playing my flute, and then going to unleashed where it's nothing but pressing onward to the end of the stage.

Exactly. Not trying to hold up the Adventure games as how Sonic should be because both games had some glaring faults, but both were games I would gladly take if Sega was to choose one.

One of the problems with Unleashed and onwards is that they prioritize you to go for the goal with linearity and such. No exploration, mostly boring platforming sections, and no unique gimmicks. Just race tracks with different backgrounds.

The wonders of games like Super Mario World is that you can mess around in many levels because of freedom. Exploration is great, right? But even exploration needs moderation. Everything needs moderation. You also need direction.

Speed should come as a reward or done through the players actions. Not through dash pads, not through automation, but through player input. Sonic can go as fast as he wants with the current gameplay, but it will get tiring after finding out you are practically watching Sonic do all of these cool things.

[Uphex]

From what I've seen in gameplay videos and such, Sonic Unleashed's day stages may have been like this but Generations and Colors? No. With the exception of GHZ, Generations' modern gameplay was not "gotta go fast lol". There was platforming mixed in, and if you use boost irresponsibly and without thinking, then you will die. There's definitely a lot more to it then cheap thrills from speed.

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hella jeff is Diogenes' current display name (so they're one person). He's an SSMB member; I'm sure you've seen his posts and if not, you will soon because he's a pretty active member.

Even the generations gameplay it not the best it could be. Just from the existence of boost the enemies are already rendered useless as they are just fuel for sonic. Speed is also supposed to be an award for playing well and gaining momentum.

Exactly. Not trying to hold up the Adventure games as how Sonic should be because both games had some glaring faults, but both were games I would gladly take if Sega was to choose one.

One of the problems with Unleashed and onwards is that they prioritize you to go for the goal with linearity and such. No exploration, mostly boring platforming sections, and no unique gimmicks. Just race tracks with different backgrounds.

The wonders of games like Super Mario World is that you can mess around in many levels because of freedom. Exploration is great, right? But even exploration needs moderation. Everything needs moderation. You also need direction.

Speed should come as a reward or done through the players actions. Not through dash pads, not through automation, but through player input. Sonic can go as fast as he wants with the current gameplay, but it will get tiring after finding out you are practically watching Sonic do all of these cool things.

Couldn't have worded it better myself. Edited November 26, 2012 by Uphex

[Dizcrybe]

Sonic's current gameplay shouldn't be how Sonic should play. It was only there because of the backlash from past games and Sonic 06. Instead of fixing what was wrong with those games, Sega just created something that will have players thrilled by cheap speed.

Ignoring Generations, which, Green Hill and Speed Highway notwithstanding, actually had 3D platforming to ensure you weren't holding X for an entire level, of course. Could've sworn I was actually guiding Sonic across the upper paths in Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill.

Edited November 26, 2012 by thapoint09

[VO.SUPER]

One thing I don't enjoy is the homing attack, in just about every modern game. The way it just stops you dead when you've attacked an enemy really kills the speed aspect at times, and just makes the games seem more like busy work. They could make the effects of the homing attack on enemies more similar to the balloons in Rooftop Runs (Gen) where you'll bounce forwards and keep the speed you had before. It has more opportunities for strategy and speed, and would eliminate the existence of... these.

[Frogging101]

Even the generations gameplay it not the best it could be. Just from the existence of boost the enemies are already rendered useless as they are just fuel for sonic.

This is a pet peeve of mine with Generations. I find that the levels are sometimes designed with enemies being used for the wrong purposes. For example, there's a gap that you cross by using homing attacks to cross chains of enemies. It's kind of "misusing" the enemies because that's not what they're for. The purpose of enemies is to add more challenge; a danger that the player needs to contend with. But often they're placed in a way that they cannot possibly harm the player; in fact they are there for the sole purpose of creating a "bridge" or similar level elements to allow the player to progress. And that's not what they should be used for.

It works and it doesn't create any real problems, but it's just bad level design practice.

I hope that made sense, I've thought about posting about this before but I didn't know how to explain it coherently.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Frogging101

[Platinumb]

From what I've seen in gameplay videos and such, Sonic Unleashed's day stages may have been like this but Generations and Colors? No. With the exception of GHZ, Generations' modern gameplay was not "gotta go fast lol". There was platforming mixed in, and if you use boost irresponsibly and without thinking, then you will die. There's definitely a lot more to it then cheap thrills from speed.

I will agree Generations wasn't as much of a criminal like Unleashed was with speed-oriented gameplay, but it was still hindered. There was exploration, but there wasn't as much freedom as you would constantly be blocked from where you came from.

The 3D platforming is lacking. They had to use enemies so Sonic can maneuver around with the homing attack or use springs, rails, or corridors where you use the shoulder buttons to move left and right because they knew Sonic was literally a bar of soap on the prison floor in these games.

That is why most of the platforming is done through 2D.

[Dizcrybe]

One thing I don't enjoy is the homing attack, in just about every modern game. The way it just stops you dead when you've attacked an enemy really kills the speed aspect at times

Not really, since you can just start boosting after a homing attack these days.

I wouldn't mind momentum being carried after a homing attack, though.

[Uphex]

Ignoring Generations, which, Green Hill and Speed Highway notwithstanding, actually had 3D platforming to ensure you weren't holding X for an entire level, of course.

As I said before, the existence of boost still renders enemies useless and stops the player from having to earn speed. You rarely if ever actually get hit in the games with boost in them.

It has been part of sonic from the beginning, to always have to work to gain your speed through momentum. Boost completely destroys that concept. I find the boost fun, but spindash is a lot funner.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Uphex

[VO.SUPER]

Not really, since you can just start boosting after a homing attack these days.

I wouldn't mind momentum being carried after a homing attack, though.

I think most of us agreed that boosting is a cheap way to gain speed that the player didn't earn.

[Platinumb]

Ignoring Generations, which, Green Hill and Speed Highway notwithstanding, actually had 3D platforming to ensure you weren't holding X for an entire level, of course. Could've sworn I was actually guiding Sonic across the upper paths in Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill.

I never said the whole game is played for you, but you cannot deny that player input is lacking in these games. Seaside Hill is probably the best level because it lacks less automation and set pieces compared to Chemical Plant or Speed Highway.

[Frogging101]

Someone else posted an idea similar to this, don't remember who. It's pretty simple: Instead of boost being a "Press a button and you are instantly at top speed", it should be "Press a button and you accelerate faster". Instead of being a speed boost it should be an acceleration boost. I'm not sure how well this would work but it sounds like it might help the problem a bit. The boost in Generations wasn't as overpowered as it would have been because the levels happened to be laid out in a way that boost would kill you if you used it stupidly, but I think the core idea of boost needs to be rethought.

[Uphex]

Someone else posted an idea similar to this, don't remember who. It's pretty simple: Instead of boost being a "Press a button and you are instantly at top speed", it should be "Press a button and you accelerate faster". Instead of being a speed boost it should be an acceleration boost. I'm not sure how well this would work but it sounds like it might help the problem a bit. The boost in Generations wasn't as overpowered as it would have been because the levels happened to be laid out in a way that boost would kill you if you used it stupidly, but I think the core idea of boost needs to be rethought.

I honestly think the core idea should be scrapped. I mean, what was wrong with the spindash outside 06? Gaining momentum to make sick jumps was a blast.

[Dizcrybe]

As I said before, the existence of boost still renders enemies useless and stops the player from having to earn speed. You rarely if ever actually get hit in the games with boost in them.

It has been part of sonic from the beginning, to always have to work to gain your speed through momentum. Boost completely destroys that concept. I find the boost fun, but spindash is a lot funner.

It's still better than it was. In Unleashed boost was pretty much fed to you, and you could use it with little to no risk of death. In Generations, while boost power is just as easily obtainable (and arguably even more so because drifting refills your boost meter) constant boosting will sometimes either condemn you to the lower path or send you careening into a pit. Also, there were plenty of times when I suddenly found myself with no boost.

I think Colors had the right idea with the boost capsules. That way, if you just spam boost, you'll eventually run out until you find another one.

EDIT:

ou cannot deny that player input is lacking in these games.

Player input was lacking in Sonic Unleashed. Colors and Generations (especially Colors) had more input than... um... Sonic Unleashed (save for a few levels in Gens' case). The problem with Colors is that almost none of that input was in 3D. If Sonic Team just increase the amount of platforming while at the same time not disrupting your speed, they could make a truly great Sonic game.

Edited November 26, 2012 by thapoint09

[Platinumb]

I would rather have Sonic gaining most of his speed through terrain, but I can see the acceleration thingie. It can be one of those optional powerups that can help Sonic get up steep slopes like in Sonic 2's Chemical Plant.

But if it is going to be like the boost by giving you invincibility to everything that isn't a projectile, no me gusta.

[Diogenes]

Ignoring Generations, which, Green Hill and Speed Highway notwithstanding, actually had 3D platforming to ensure you weren't holding X for an entire level, of course. Could've sworn I was actually guiding Sonic across the upper paths in Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill.

Yeah, except it's really boring platforming, because the game's not really designed for it. It's barebones platforming awkwardly dropped into a game about boosting and dodging.

This is a pet peeve of mine with Generations. I find that the levels are sometimes designed with enemies being used for the wrong purposes. For example, there's a gap that you cross by using homing attacks to cross chains of enemies. It's kind of "misusing" the enemies because that's not what they're for. The purpose of enemies is to add more challenge; a danger that the player needs to contend with. But often they're placed in a way that they cannot possibly harm the player; in fact they are there for the sole purpose of creating a "bridge" or similar level elements to allow the player to progress. And that's not what they should be used for.

While I've got no love for homing attack chains, I don't think this is necessarily true. "Enemy" is only so clearly defined in the story, not so much in the gameplay. In gameplay, as part of the level design, they can serve multiple purposes and don't strictly need to be able to damage the player. Enemies serving as stepping stones is a common platformer element, for example.

[Komodin]

Well, here's another (un?)popular opinion that I hold: I genuinely like the (Modern!)Sonic gameplay from Unleashed onwards. I know it's not exactly perfect, but I still find it enjoyable.

You may execute me now...

[Dr. Crusher]

Well, here's another (un?)popular opinion that I hold: I genuinely like the (Modern!)Sonic gameplay from Unleashed onwards. I know it's not exactly perfect, but I still find it enjoyable.

You may execute me now...

No, it's okay, that makes two of us at least.

[Platinumb]

Player input was lacking in Sonic Unleashed. Colors and Generations (especially Colors) had more input than... um... Sonic Unleashed (save for a few levels in Gens' case). The problem with Colors is that almost none of that input was in 3D. If Sonic Team just increase the amount of platforming while at the same time not disrupting your speed, they could make a truly great Sonic game.

Generations had more, but it was still lacking in being fun and intuitive. Like the corridor sections was basically mashing the shoulder buttons. Silver's fight was literally just that, because Sonic controls horribly in 3D and they try to hide it with linear sections and dash pads.

They got to fix controls, handling, and this emphasis on speed to make platforming any better.

There is more to 3D platforming than just jumping to platform to platform, rail to rail, or enemy to enemy.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Platinumb

[Uphex]

I also really miss the arena boss fights. Some running boss fights are fine, but the boost gameplay pretty much ensures that every single boss will be a running boss fight. It gets really boring especially if they are going to be literally just boosting like shadows rival battle in generations.

[Platinumb]

Every boss, barring Death Egg Robot, was basically Sonic boosting/running through a looped course.

It is cool for fights like Perfect Chaos, but that is only because the original was just Sonic running at Chaos.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Platinumb

[Soniman]

I guess I'm with Crusher and Komodin, since Modern Sonic gameplay has all of a sudden become the new worst thing ever related to Sonic.

[VO.SUPER]

And now for something different: I hate Sonic CD's level design. It clashes so much with the main gimmick of the game, and often leads to frustration. And on the topic, that gimmick sucked too, since you had no incentive to go to the future at anytime. In fact, all the future ever served was as a lame and frustrating trap that sets the player back significantly.

[Tornado]

And on the topic, that gimmick sucked too, since you had no incentive to go to the future at anytime. In fact, all the future ever served was as a lame and frustrating trap that sets the player back significantly.

But... it was pretty...

[VO.SUPER]

But... it was pretty...

Ugh, but it was a pain to get to the good future. You'd have to get out of the past, then get a future sign from the present, before you could enjoy that beautiful future. And the 3rd Acts were always too short to really enjoy the good futures you made. It's the most misused gimmick I've played in a 2D Sonic game.