Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Dude, speaking as a Shadow fan, I hate ShTH the game as much as the next person. But compared to the incoherent atrocity of a narrative that came after it, ShTH's plot is actually pretty damn good when it at the very least tries to be coherent, tries to make sense of its stakes, and the ending motives at least gave you some drive to roll with.

 

No, that's not saying Black Doom changing his motive about why he's invading earth is a masterpiece, but it's far more consistent that he never stops attacking the planet compared to the likes of Mephiles who creates so much bullshit by trying to make Silver kill Sonic (when he could've done it himself) to make Elise cry, turn Shadow to his cause with little proof of people betraying him beyond showing Shadow crucified in some stasis pod, and all around wasting time while Sonic was having a wild goose chase in saving the Princess from Eggman. And this is before getting into the other nonsense that plagues Sonic 06.

 

ShTH may screw up Shadow's backstory by adding extra junk that was never alluded to previously, but it still kept in mind the backstory that was established, the fact that Shadow was sealed for 50 years, GUN shutting down the Ark, and so forth. Compare that with Sonic 06 which couldn't even make up much of it's mind over what the fuck it was going for prior to the final story.

[Jet Prower]

I guess I never understood the story hate with Shadow the Hedgehog. So he was partly created by aliens, so what. Its an interesting twist to me. Not all stories in games always allude to things in other games or earlier events that may be going to happen later. That's why it is called a twist. You never thought about it  happening, but guess what, it did happen. We can whine about it all we want, but it still happened and gives him a more interesting backstory than just, oh he was created in a lab. Yes, the game is a bit repetative, but it at least tries to do something different than just run to the goal ring.

[Diogenes]

The twist is stupid, it doesn't connect with anything we knew about him, it makes his backstory unnecessarily convoluted, and it doesn't add anything meaningful to the character. It's a dumb twist for the sake of a twist.

[Jet Prower]

The twist is stupid, it doesn't connect with anything we knew about him, it makes his backstory unnecessarily convoluted, and it doesn't add anything meaningful to the character. It's a dumb twist for the sake of a twist.

 

I guess I just dont see that as a massive problem like many do. Yes, it comes out of nowhere, but don't alot of twists in games, tv, and movies just come out of nowhere and often have no connection to past things? That's why it is called a twist.

 

As for not adding anything meaningful. Maybe it doesn't change much, but still, it shows he has more of a backstory than just he is a testtube hedgehog and nothing else.

[Kuzu]

I guess I just dont see that as a massive problem like many do. Yes, it comes out of nowhere, but don't alot of twists in games, tv, and movies just come out of nowhere and often have no connection to past things? That's why it is called a twist.

As for not adding anything meaningful. Maybe it doesn't change much, but still, it shows he has more of a backstory than just he is a testtube hedgehog and nothing else.

Well that, and it was executed extremely poorly and basically destroyed what made Shadow a good character.

[Nepenthe]

Shadow being a good character hinged entirely on him not having alien blood?

[Diogenes]

I guess I just dont see that as a massive problem like many do. Yes, it comes out of nowhere, but don't alot of twists in games, tv, and movies just come out of nowhere and often have no connection to past things? That's why it is called a twist.

Mostly just the shitty ones. The good ones, they put in hints that prove it was there from the start. A good twist gives you new understanding of previous information. ShtH's doesn't.

As for not adding anything meaningful. Maybe it doesn't change much, but still, it shows he has more of a backstory than just he is a testtube hedgehog and nothing else.

He had plenty of backstory already! Adding bullshit on top of it didn't make it any better.

[Jet Prower]

Well that, and it was executed extremely poorly and basically destroyed what made Shadow a good character.

 

How does it destroy him though? Having an alien backstory with alien dna in his body makes him a bad character? That doesn't really make any sense to me at least.

[Kuzu]

Shadow being a good character hinged entirely on him not having alien blood?

 

 

How does it destroy him though? Having an alien backstory with alien dna in his body makes him a bad character? That doesn't really make any sense to me at least.

 

There is nothing wrong with Shadow being part Alien by itself, but its compounded by the game's writing and how it portrayed Shadow compared to his previous iterations with how it handled his character(i.e. poorly). Basically its something unneeded combined with something awful if that makes sense.

[Nepenthe]

If Shadow being part alien is a benign factoid considering "there's nothing wrong with him" being so, how does it subsequently worsen the already-bad writing? I don't understand that at all.

[Kuzu]

If Shadow being part alien is a benign factoid considering "there's nothing wrong with him" being so, how does it subsequently worsen the already-bad writing? I don't understand that at all.

 

Well some feel there was really no need for him to be part alien in the first place and that his backstory was already fleshed out enough; Its really more or less a case of "They changed it, now it sucks".

[Jet Prower]

There is nothing wrong with Shadow being part Alien by itself, but its compounded by the game's writing and how it portrayed Shadow compared to his previous iterations with how it handled his character(i.e. poorly). Basically its something unneeded combined with something awful if that makes sense.

 

Do you mean like that because he doesn't know who he is, he is sort of down about it and desperately wants to find out who he is? Honestly, I can't blame him for being a bit down about it and being slightly mad about not knowing who he is really. Yes, he was a bit of a badass in the other game, but he was just following orders alot of the time from Eggman and doing what  he thought was right. He isn't sure what to do anymore, so he is trying to find out what he is therefor then if what he originally thought wasn't right.

 

As for there being no need for him to be part alien, yeah I guess you can say there is maybe no need, but it adds a bit twist to the entire situation. Someone you thought was just like you, may not be who you think he is. You may have thought he was just another hedgehog or anthromophic animal like all the others, but deep down there is something different from him, and the bad endings show that in that if that was the way things turned out, well you just thought wrong about him.

[Nepenthe]

I don't think it's necessary either, but I don't see the necessity of it as being relevant to the quality of his character. If Sega released supplementary material describing his SA2 origins in more hard scientific detail, you'd pretty much get the same end result: extraneous information about something you don't need to know about to understand the gist of Shadow or the games he's in. It's barely a change; it's an add-on. I don't get the outright fury over an add-on.

[Diogenes]

I think there's not inherently anything wrong with a character turning out to be part alien, but you need to write the proper context for it. They didn't do that for Shadow, though. It doesn't fit his backstory, it was never foreshadowed, it doesn't affect how anyone thinks of him, or expand our understanding of anything that happened previously. Again, it's a dumb twist for the sake of having a twist; a cheap attempt at adding more "cool points" rather than writing interesting characters and stories.

[Kuzu]

Do you mean like that because he doesn't know who he is, he is sort of down about it and desperately wants to find out who he is? Honestly, I can't blame him for being a bit down about it and being slightly mad about not knowing who he is really. Yes, he was a bit of a badass in the other game, but he was just following orders alot of the time from Eggman and doing what  he thought was right. He isn't sure what to do anymore, so he is trying to find out what he is therefor then if what he originally thought wasn't right.

 

As for there being no need for him to be part alien, yeah I guess you can say there is maybe no need, but it adds a bit twist to the entire situation. Someone you thought was just like you, may not be who you think he is. You may have thought he was just another hedgehog or anthromophic animal like all the others, but deep down there is something different from him, and the bad endings show that in that if that was the way things turned out, well you just thought wrong about him.

The thing is, in SA2 Shadow really did not care about his past; when the idea that his memories may be fake, he basically shrugs it off and claims he's going to keep on fighting regardless. So when he comes back with amnesia and begins angsting about it its pretty weird. I'm not saying it isn't justified, but its a bit jarring considering the example I listed above. Its also mostly because of the divergent nature of the game's morality system; I know they're non-canon, but Shadow takes a complete 180 in character depending on your choices, which makes no sense when he's already had a firmly established character in the past. 

 

I get what they were trying to do, but that doesn't make actual product good. The reason Shadow's game is hated is mainly because of how bastardizes the character with its poorly executed ideas.

 

I don't think it's necessary either, but I don't see the necessity of it as being relevant to the quality of his character. If Sega released supplementary material describing his SA2 origins in more hard scientific detail, you'd pretty much get the same end result: extraneous information about something you don't need to know about to understand the gist of Shadow or the games he's in. It's barely a change; it's an add-on. I don't get the outright fury over an add-on.

 

I don't really know honestly; I guess people just hate the idea of Shadow being an alien....for some reason. I never cared enough to pay it any mind.

[Nepenthe]

I think there's not inherently anything wrong with a character turning out to be part alien, but you need to write the proper context for it. They didn't do that for Shadow, though. It doesn't fit his backstory, it was never foreshadowed, it doesn't affect how anyone thinks of him, or expand our understanding of anything that happened previously. Again, it's a dumb twist for the sake of having a twist; a cheap attempt at adding more "cool points" rather than writing interesting characters and stories.

 

Which are fine criticisms at the end of the day, but let's be real here: the concept of Shadow being part alien has always been derided as having ruined the character on its own merits rather than being a mere symptom or example of the bad writing within the game itself, and that subsequently affects how Shadow will be seen from now on regardless of how well he is written. It's stupid.

[Diogenes]

The whole of ShtH being written shittily certainly doesn't help, but it's not the execution of that game alone that makes the twist fall flat; even just going off SA2 it's a hard sell because it doesn't mesh with anything we knew about him. Even if ShtH had been written well I doubt it would've worked.

[Jet Prower]

The thing is, in SA2 Shadow really did not care about his past; when the idea that his memories may be fake, he basically shrugs it off and claims he's going to keep on fighting regardless. So when he comes back with amnesia and begins angsting about it its pretty weird. I'm not saying it isn't justified, but its a bit jarring considering the example I listed above. Its also mostly because of the divergent nature of the game's morality system; I know they're non-canon, but Shadow takes a complete 180 in character depending on your choices, which makes no sense when he's already had a firmly established character in the past. 

 

I get what they were trying to do, but that doesn't make actual product good. The reason Shadow's game is hated is mainly because of how bastardizes the character with its poorly executed ideas.

 

 

Though how concrete was  his character set in place in SA2? I guess it just never really bugged me that things were changed a bit in Shadow compaired to SA2. When I see SA2, I see him just not caring about everything else because he is convinced he is doing what Maria wanted him to do and that was all he needed. In Shadow, when that isn't as clear when he learns what he had been doing was wrong, he wants to see if he can find a better reason. Yes, I do know he broods a bit, which may not be fully in character, but being lost in yourself about who you are can drive anyway to be a bit depressed.

 

I did usually enjoy the different endings, because it showed you these whatifs with Shadow. I know they may not all be set in stone, but it was always interesting to see. Believe me, I've seen fics that show Shadow either suffering at the hands of GUN being massively cruel to him or ones of SHadow being mad rulers of the planet. Its just all depending on what you like I guess.

[Ducktor Naldush]

Ok, let's start without any regrets:

 

I don't like the Wisps. Calm down, calm down, let me explain myself:

While I'm not exactly a fan of their design, because let's face it, they remind me way too much of Doom's Eye, it's their function in the games that makes me cringe. I know, Sega fears using non-Sonic characters in their games because of an eventual backlash. I get it, it's reasonable at least. The solution would be simple. Keep the other playable characters secret until release and, if you really want to use those darned eye-ball aliens, make the other characters have a special ability that reminds of a power-up. I dunno, maybe Tails could have a permanent Eagle power and Knuckles a drill one. Everyone would win. 

 

I make it too easy, right? I'm surely missing something out.

[Diogenes]

I don't see how keeping other playable characters secret would be in anyone's best interest.

[Ducktor Naldush]

I don't see how keeping other playable characters secret would be in anyone's best interest.

It seems that everytime a character is announced, the critics go apeshit crazy about the eventuality of a non-Sonic character being playable. I just thought that keeping it secret, thus unknown to the mass  would be the wisest choice. Then again I knew it wouldn't be this simple.

[Nepenthe]

Best thing to do would be to make the playable characters actually good then shove them down everyone's throat anyway. The character stigma isn't something that's going to go away with some "long-term plan" or keeping them secret. Remember when Sega went from Sonic 06 to Sonic Unleashed immediately without anyone's approval or some ridiculous years-long time table to actually get to Sonic Unleashed? Remember how they just made the game and subsequently kept using the Daytime gameplay? Yeah, I think immediacy is the method works best.

[Jet Prower]

Best thing to do would be to make the playable characters actually good then shove them down everyone's throat anyway. The character stigma isn't something that's going to go away with some "long-term plan" or keeping them secret. Remember when Sega went from Sonic 06 to Sonic Unleashed immediately without anyone's approval or some ridiculous years-long time table to actually get to Sonic Unleashed? Remember how they just made the game and subsequently kept using the Daytime gameplay? Yeah, I think immediacy is the method works best.

 

I'm hoping they will eventually change things up as well. The daytime stages setting from unleashed has gotten rather old by this point. It definately seems to lower the replayability in my opinion. There is almost no difference between many stages and you shorten the gameplay to like three or four hours of gameplay before you beat the game. Unleashed at least had something like a ten to fifteen hours mode and then a reason to go back and play it some more. I just haven't gotten that feeling as much lately.

[Kuzu]

Though how concrete was  his character set in place in SA2? I guess it just never really bugged me that things were changed a bit in Shadow compaired to SA2. When I see SA2, I see him just not caring about everything else because he is convinced he is doing what Maria wanted him to do and that was all he needed. In Shadow, when that isn't as clear when he learns what he had been doing was wrong, he wants to see if he can find a better reason. Yes, I do know he broods a bit, which may not be fully in character, but being lost in yourself about who you are can drive anyway to be a bit depressed.

 

I did usually enjoy the different endings, because it showed you these whatifs with Shadow. I know they may not all be set in stone, but it was always interesting to see. Believe me, I've seen fics that show Shadow either suffering at the hands of GUN being massively cruel to him or ones of SHadow being mad rulers of the planet. Its just all depending on what you like I guess.

 

I know SA2 didn't have his character set in stone, but what he was like Shadow just did not seem like a natural progression of his character because of how out of nowhere it comes. Yea I know Heroes leads into the game, but in the former the conflict was more of whether Shadow was real or another robot and comes to the conclusion that he doesn't care and that he is who he is, but then in the next game he's right back to angsting his past? Its not the fact that he was questioning himself that people have a problem with, its how its completely inconsistent with his character up to that point.

[Nepenthe]

To be fair, the beginning of ShtH makes it appear that the memories he didn't have at all in Heroes are coming back to him in snippets, which in turn ignites his curiosity. There is a lead-in, even if it's an unnecessary one.