Why are Classic and Modern Sonic so separated?

[Cortez]

They're the same fucking character but it's almost like we're expected to treat them as different characters. Sonic Generations did an absolutely fantastic job of splitting them even further apart and now it's like they're two different entities entirely.

Sometimes it's hard to accept them as the same character when even the company that created them doesn't treat them as such.

[Jack / Joker]

BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE STUPID. >=(

Edited November 9, 2012 by -The Joker-

[TheOcelot]

Perhaps that perception is more down to the different skill sets that classic Sonic has compared to modern. I.e. classic has spindash, and modern has homing attack and boost.

Black or green eyes, it shouldn't matter. Sonic is still only one cool character.

Edited November 9, 2012 by NightwingFox

[Chaos Warp]

Because of the fanbase divide. While I do think it's dumb and they are the same character, they sort of "divided" them because the fanbase.

[Kuzu]

Because fans decided to treat them that way, and Generations only justified it further.

[Diogenes]

Sonic Team's spent the last decade+ excising pretty much everything about the classic games from the series. It's not really a surprise that they seem like two different characters when they've changed almost everything about him.

[Milo]

Now that I think about it, was there really any attempt to make a resemblance between the two hedgehogs aside from appearence and abilities? This is definitely more noticable with classic Sonic, who here seems to entirely lack his "90s badbutt attitude," and as a result doesn't do much in general aside from having the ability to look cute and give his silent approval at modern Sonic everytime he performs a trick he can't do (yet), let alone do much personalitywise.

Edited November 9, 2012 by -Bane-

[Mr. Taxi]

They're the same fucking character

They're not.

They can be seen more like two separate entities living under the same name and bearing mildly similar character design and that's not because of Sonic himself as a character, but Sonic as a franchise. The universes are entirely different, with distinct elements serving different purposes. There is not a single element in Sonic, be it gameplay or story, that hasn't had its purpose and meaning drastically changed at least once.

And, of course, how these elements interact to form Sonic's unverse became completely different as well. For instance, we already have had the thread about how Chaos Emeralds were flanderized. Don't get me wrong - as of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, it would be perfectly possible for someone to imagine an ancient tribe, a Space ARK from the past and even, perhaps, heck, even aliens in a Sonic game. But not the way they were (especially aliens) and not the way the Chaos Emeralds would interact with all of these and basically at the same time.

Also, Sonic was more than a franchise for SEGA - it was a position. The mascot, the spearhead. Sonic as a trademark was closely associated with SEGA as a trademark, and Sonic as a franchise, closely associated with SEGA as a company. When SEGA was forced to change their whole marketing strategy, Sonic's position in this strategy was changed as well. Or else, the mascot's role changed. To put it simply, Sonic became a ghost and incarnated another body. Still there, but not quite there. This alone was sufficient to change not only Sonic games and how they were produced, but also how they were perceived. What it meant to be playing Sonic. What it meant to be a part of the group of people who were enthusiasts of Sonic.

For example, in the Mega Drive Era, it didn't matter whether you liked Sonic or not. He was always there, his image incorporated in Shining Force and whatever SEGA game you can think of. Being a SEGA fan meant liking, or at least respecting Sonic. Getting behind it and all. When SEGA stopped having a following of this kind, these strings were unattached. You longer needed to recognize Sonic.

This alone would be sufficient to separate the fanbase, but the design choices helped. Maybe led by how the trends in the game changed and desperate attempts from Sonic Team to regain the position it once had as a development team who would actually dictate such trends, but they did divide the Sonics further.

In short, Sonic wasn't divided because the fanbase was divided. It's exactly the other way around.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Palas

[Cola]

When I bought Sonic Mega Collection and Sonic Adventure 2 Battle when I was 7, I thought Classic and Modern were the exact same Sonic, only drawn differently due to technical differences and different art styles. There wasn't a Classic or Modern Sonic for me.

There was only Sonic the Hedgehog. The Fastest Thing Alive.

As I settled into the fanbase, I learned there was a huge divide. Over what? An art style? So, what if it wasn't an art style? Then what? Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic are Sonic as a kid and young adult. There. Thankfully, Sonic Team made this canon in Generations.

I don't know where I'm going with this but just take it as "the divide is stupid they're the same fucking characte

ers it's canon get over it"

Edited November 9, 2012 by Colasaurus Rex

[hangarninetysix]

I think it's less about the style of the character and more the fact that modern Sonic represents mediocrity to alot of people, whereas classic Sonic represents excellence. And Generations certainly didn't help either.

Edited November 9, 2012 by hangarninetysix

[Mr. Taxi]

When I bought Sonic Mega Collection and Sonic Adventure 2 Battle when I was 7, I thought Classic and Modern were the exact same Sonic, only drawn differently due to technical differences and different art styles. There wasn't a Classic or Modern Sonic for me.

There was only Sonic the Hedgehog. The Fastest Thing Alive.

As I settled into the fanbase, I learned there was a huge divide. Over what? An art style? So, what if it wasn't an art style? Then what? Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic are Sonic as a kid and young adult. There. Thankfully, Sonic Team made this canon in Generations.

I don't know where I'm going with this but just take it as "the divide is stupid they're the same fucking characte

ers it's canon get over it"

I might as well just say that personal experience is much more important than canon, since Sonic is a game franchise, not an organized religion. And, in that sense, anything like a "canon" is just a guideline to the experience, not a rule. And yet, the presence of two Sonics was mostly not perceived as a confirmation that they are the same character, but, rather, as the confirmation that they are somehow different. So now you will have to explain me that one.

[Cola]

I might as well just say that personal experience is much more important than canon, since Sonic is a game franchise, not an organized religion. And, in that sense, anything like a "canon" is just a guideline to the experience, not a rule. And yet, the presence of two Sonics was mostly not perceived as a confirmation that they are the same character, but, rather, as the confirmation that they are somehow different. So now you will have to explain me that one.

Personal experience is more important than canon, I can agree with you there.

People change as they get older, do they not? As one grows, matures, and experiences new things, they develop new opinions about things. Their personalities can change, can develop further. For instance, you can come to the conclusion that Sonic was shy when he was younger and refused to talk much, but overcame that and became more talkative as he grew older.

[Salamander]

Generations was just responding to the fans in canonising the classic vs. modern split. In reality there's little justification for it.

[PerfectChaos]

Cos BOOOOOOSSSSSSSHHHHH

[Mr. Taxi]

Personal experience is more important than canon, I can agree with you there.

People change as they get older, do they not? As one grows, matures, and experiences new things, they develop new opinions about things. Their personalities can change, can develop further. For instance, you can come to the conclusion that Sonic was shy when he was younger and refused to talk much, but overcame that and became more talkative as he grew older.

Well, hm, that was... not what I was asking you to explain. I was pointing to the fact that people's perception of this was different of what was, probably, the developers' intention, and asking you to explain that.

I mean, I won't be the one to say it's right to treat them as two different characters. But, since it does happen, I do believe we must go beyond the easy way of "people are stupid/frantic/angry for no reason" and analyze what, in fact, has happened over the years. Even if we eventually get to the conclusion that it was irrational to treat them as two characters all along, there would still have to be an explanation for such irrational behaviour.

[Dr. Homem]

People change as they get older, do they not? As one grows, matures, and experiences new things, they develop new opinions about things. Their personalities can change, can develop further. For instance, you can come to the conclusion that Sonic was shy when he was younger and refused to talk much, but overcame that and became more talkative as he grew older.

That would be a decent explanation if he had spoke at least a couple lines, and it would be consistent with the classics since his talking moments were few, far and apart. But having him 100% silent was a bit overkill.

[Kuzu]

Like I said, it's the fans that are treating them like they're different characters, and Sega in their infinite wisdom, decided to split the gap even further by making them as such.

Yes, I know the changes to the series are drastic compared to their classic roots, but I still don't see that as a reason to treat them as if they're two separate entities, and act as if one is inferior/superior to the other, it's annoying. I mean, if they had to bring back the Classic design, why bring it back for only one game, and then never use it again? It's only going to piss off the portion of the fanbase that wants more classic styled games, and prefer the classic design in general, so not only have you alienated one portion of the base, you've created potentially more dissenters towards Modern Sonic.

I mean if you HAD to bring him, you could have just pulled a Mega Man X and spin him off into his own series.

[Cola]

Well, hm, that was... not what I was asking you to explain. I was pointing to the fact that people's perception of this was different of what was, probably, the developers' intention, and asking you to explain that.

I mean, I won't be the one to say it's right to treat them as two different characters. But, since it does happen, I do believe we must go beyond the easy way of "people are stupid/frantic/angry for no reason" and analyze what, in fact, has happened over the years. Even if we eventually get to the conclusion that it was irrational to treat them as two characters all along, there would still have to be an explanation for such irrational behaviour.

Oh, my apologies, I completely misunderstood what you were saying.

[batson]

Generations was just responding to the fans in canonising the classic vs. modern split. In reality there's little justification for it.

While i dont think that having classic Sonic in Generations was any kind of "must" in the sense that the game wouldnt have worked without him, i think its going to far to say that "there is little justification" for having him there. The classic design was used for the first 7 or 8 years (depending on whether you go by Japan or the rest of the world) of the franchise, and the first four years of those could be described as the most important years of the franchise at that, so its perfectly understandable that they wanted to include that version of the character in what was intended as a nostalgic celebration of the series as a whole.

Edited November 10, 2012 by batson

[-Mark-]

They split them because they wanted to basically make it seem more evident in Generations. Seriously, Generations' Classic Sonic is, design-wise, a drastically flanderised version of himself. They made him as short and as pale a blue as they could get away with, larely because they wanted to do as much as possible to differentiate him from Modern Sonic.

Realistically, not much changed between Classic and Modern Sonic back in 1998. He got an eye colour and maybe a little bit taller... that was about it. Classic Sonic was never really much paler a shade of blue than Modern, with the exceptions of Sonic 1 and CD.

But yeah, other than to highlight the difference in Generations, merchandise-wise it's so they can still cater to people who are no longer strictly Sonic fans but still have the "Oh yeah, I remember Sonic from when I was a kid, Sonic's cool" factor.

[Mangoaxe5]

Because green eyes man green eyes.

Seriously why do people give a fucking rat's ass about changes in a character design?

I don't see Mario fans crying about the changes in his design such as the swapping of the color of his shirt and overalls, or the fact that Mario has lost weight.

[Mr. Taxi]

This is why.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Palas

[Diogenes]

Seriously why do people give a fucking rat's ass about changes in a character design?

[Mr. Taxi]

Part of this is because these changes are almost as old as the people playing the games, and part of it is because the changes they've made aren't particularly significant. Mario's design solidified very early on and has barely changed since, aside from things due to technical limitations or art style choices.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Palas

[Scar]

Mario has also had the benefit of a steady vision. Unlike Sonic Team, the development team at Nintendo haven't had such massive upheavals of their structure and the principal visionaries behind the franchise have stayed to this day. There is also the fact that Nintendo themselves were lucky enough not to get shunted out of the console market and have to go third-party, which I'm sure played a huge role in the issues that occured within Sonic Team and the development of Sonic games.