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40 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Chaotix originally was a Sonic-themed spin-off called Crackers, in which Sonic and Tails would've been the player characters and connected with an energy band, while the game itself would've released on the Genesis as the next big game after & Knuckles. However, during development, they shifted the development to the 32x and while they were at it, swapped out Sonic & Tails for Knuckles and the Chaotix, especially since Knuckles gathered a lot of attention from S3&K.

There's still left over assets from the Crackers prototype, one of the glitch characters being a palette swapped white Knuckles is rumoured to be what remains of Tails' assets. Sonic was turned into Mighty while Tails was cut altogether. The rumour comes because if you hack the game to say which character you want, the character in Slot 1 is Mighty (Sonic's assets turned into Mighty as previously mentioned), while Slot 2 is the glitched Knuckles. It's thought to be Tails as instead of gliding, the glitched character flies and falls back down similar to Tails in the classic trilogy. The reason it looks like a weird Knuckles is it goes for the first sprite set it could get, which appears to be a bugged up version of Knuckles' sprites.

All is right here, except for one thing. Knuckles' Chaotix was developed by another development team by Sega and Sonic Team being kind of supervising team. We can't know it since it was never told, but likely Chaotix had a similar fate as Sonic Xtreme, kind of. Xtreme used Naka's engine for NiGHTS and Chaotix used Sonic and Tails until Sonic Team found that the finished game would be underwhelming. Compared to main Sonic titles before, it really is.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Is there any real establishment for where/what "San Francisco" Zone is?

The wiki points out that the first cutscene is "above the capital city", and future canon calls the capital Central City.

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45 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

The wiki points out that the first cutscene is "above the capital city", and future canon calls the capital Central City.

Okay, thanks!

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Kinda makes me wish Westopolis and the other city levels in ShTH looked more like City Escape, etc.. There's some influence if you include the relatively steep roads but I mean, it was a Sonic game (arguably).

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5 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Since his moveset has been called into question a fair bit, I think it would be neat to ask for any insight on how the Glide mechanic came about?

Actually, that's quite a mystery.

I guess that he was originally meant to be a different animal altogether, hence why he doesn't look like an actual echidna.

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4 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Actually, that's quite a mystery.

I guess that he was originally meant to be a different animal altogether, hence why he doesn't look like an actual echidna.

He looks like an echidna about as much Sonic looks like a hedgehog. ..maybe slightly less.

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Considering we now know of some minor hurdle preventing them from using the PC S3K tracks, what’s preventing them from using the LEGO Dimenions ones? Or the myriad other tracks I’ve Cap has used over the years? Is there some other issue with the game?

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I replayed SA2 yesterday, and something I had never really questioned before is why does Flying Dog attack Rouge without question in Security Hall? Yes she broke in there and stole 3 chaos emeralds, but no "Rouge, what do you think you're doing!?" or anything like that. They just acted as though she's any ordinary intruder. Unless GUN is so big that she just wouldn't be recognized. And yet, she's the only known anthro GUN member, which is kinda funny. And even then, she's supposedly a "famous" or at the very least well known government spy as stated by Shadow when he found her out.

I feel like she shouldn't have been attacked by GUN like that, at least not without question. Then again, I don't recall it ever being explicitly stated she's a member of GUN in SA2, just that she's a 'government spy' I guess hired by the president?

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38 minutes ago, Strong Guy said:

I replayed SA2 yesterday, and something I had never really questioned before is why does Flying Dog attack Rouge without question in Security Hall? Yes she broke in there and stole 3 chaos emeralds, but no "Rouge, what do you think you're doing!?" or anything like that. They just acted as though she's any ordinary intruder. 

I feel like she shouldn't have been attacked by GUN like that, at least not without question. Then again, I don't recall it ever being explicitly stated she's a member of GUN in SA2, just that she's a 'government spy' I guess hired by the president?

It's somewhat implied that she's just a treasure hunter/thief that GUN was using for watch Eggman and get information on Project Shadow in exchange for jewels.

37 minutes ago, Strong Guy said:

 And even then, she's supposedly a "famous" or at the very least well known government spy as stated by Shadow when he found her out.

 

Yeah, that line was pretty boggling.

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7 hours ago, Strong Guy said:

I replayed SA2 yesterday, and something I had never really questioned before is why does Flying Dog attack Rouge without question in Security Hall? Yes she broke in there and stole 3 chaos emeralds, but no "Rouge, what do you think you're doing!?" or anything like that. They just acted as though she's any ordinary intruder. Unless GUN is so big that she just wouldn't be recognized. And yet, she's the only known anthro GUN member, which is kinda funny. And even then, she's supposedly a "famous" or at the very least well known government spy as stated by Shadow when he found her out.

I feel like she shouldn't have been attacked by GUN like that, at least not without question. Then again, I don't recall it ever being explicitly stated she's a member of GUN in SA2, just that she's a 'government spy' I guess hired by the president?

In Spider-man Maximum Carnage, there are two levels of fighting off the Fantastic Four's advanced security systems because they were out of town when you needed their sonic gun. It matches events in the comics.

Sometimes, the security from your allies just has orders to attack any intruders.

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Speaking of SA2, I'm a little confused on the whole "Real Shadow" ordeal.

From what I've picked up from SA2, basically, everyone mistook our Shadow (the hedgehog) as Dr. Gerald's project on destroying the world when in actuality, his project was for the real Shadow (the Bioizard), which is why we have moments like Eggman pretty much being like "Well shit... If I'd known all of this, I wouldn't have released the hedgehog and stopped all of this way before the fact" when he found out about his grand dad's secret diary, and when Rouge came up to our Shadow with the secret files showing Project Shadow and began questioning him if his name even was really Shadow since those files talked about and showed pictures of the Biolizard and had nothing to do with the hedgehog.

So with all of that in mind, my main question is... where did these androids of our Shadow in the later games come from?

I thought that entire fiasco of "Who's real and who's not?" for Shadow was between the hedgehog and the lizard regarding their project names? How do these androids expand that same plot point and why is the biolzard dropped? If anything, shouldn't there have been mass produced androids of the lizard since that was supposed to be the ultimate life form that went through prototypes?

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They're two similar but separate plot points. The first is about calling into question Shadow's mission in SA2, is he really the ULF, are his memories of the ARK and Maria real or is he just a pawn in something bigger. The second is if the Shadow in Heroes is the Shadow from SA2, or if he's just one of Eggman's robot Shadows who thinks he's the real one.

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Hmm, I see. I just always assumed the "Android Shadow" half of Shadow's lore was supposed to somehow expand on that whole "who's really Shadow?" plot point for Shadow, which is why I couldn't tell if they had missed the point or if I was missing something.

Like, as if to say the writers for Heroes and STH re watched that cut-scene were Rouge just says "So... Are you the real Shadow?" in SA2 and then the next game they just ran with that and went of into a whole different tangent regarding androids haha.

I still don't see why they're not using Biolzard androids instead of Shadow though since that was supposed to be the ULF meant for destruction and I always assumed they based that creature with Perfect Chaos as they used a bunch of artificial versions of Chaos in SA2, giving more reason as to why they'd actually use the lizard instead, but admittedly I haven't played STH in a very long time, so my details are a little foggy.

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My understanding was that Biolizard is only the prototype Ultimate Life Form of Project Shadow - the completed version, finished using Black Doom's DNA and later given an implanted mission in his memory, is Shadow the Hedgehog. While Shadow's goal was to collect the Chaos Emeralds and thus start the colony drop endgame, Biolizard appears to simply be the last line of defense for the Eclipse Cannon's core; Gerald seems to have programmed him as a failsafe to keep the plan going once begun.

Correspondingly, Eggman makes android copies of Shadow rather than Biolizard as Shadow is the final version of the ULF, as well as the fact that Shadow is a significantly more useful template than Biolizard (Shadow is fast, agile, deadly and a match to Sonic, while Biolizard - though possessing some dangerous abilities of its own - is a near immobile lump of flesh and metal). On top of that, Eggman actually had Shadow in captivity to copy.

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Was there an actual reason for CHAOS Gamma?

8 hours ago, StriCNYN3 said:

 

I still don't see why they're not using Biolzard androids instead of Shadow though since that was supposed to be the ULF meant for destruction and I always assumed they based that creature with Perfect Chaos as they used a bunch of artificial versions of Chaos in SA2, giving more reason as to why they'd actually use the lizard instead, but admittedly I haven't played STH in a very long time, so my details are a little foggy.

Same reason Ridley isn't playable in Smash--he's too frikkin big.

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22 hours ago, Strong Guy said:

I replayed SA2 yesterday, and something I had never really questioned before is why does Flying Dog attack Rouge without question in Security Hall? Yes she broke in there and stole 3 chaos emeralds, but no "Rouge, what do you think you're doing!?" or anything like that. They just acted as though she's any ordinary intruder. Unless GUN is so big that she just wouldn't be recognized. And yet, she's the only known anthro GUN member, which is kinda funny. And even then, she's supposedly a "famous" or at the very least well known government spy as stated by Shadow when he found her out.

I feel like she shouldn't have been attacked by GUN like that, at least not without question. Then again, I don't recall it ever being explicitly stated she's a member of GUN in SA2, just that she's a 'government spy' I guess hired by the president?

If you want to go into a "head-canon" explanation, G.U.N soldiers aren't aware of Rouge's alliance to them. As said, she's more or less been employed with the promise of jewels to keep an eye on Eggman. The G.U.N Commander and higher ups may know about her undercover role but normal grunt soldiers wouldn't, so when Eggman and Shadow pull an attack on Prison Island, they naturally assume Rouge's in on it. 

If you want an alternative route of head-canon, Rouge more or less went too far with helping the attack on Prison Island and the G.U.N Commander planned to arrest her for her part in it, especially since by all means - Rouge handing over the emeralds to Eggman is far more dangerous than simply being undercover. It wasn't until Rouge got the info they wanted out of her did they drop her crimes. 

Again, both are head-canon but eh.

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23 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

 

If you want an alternative route of head-canon, Rouge more or less went too far with helping the attack on Prison Island a

That was my thought the last time I saw the next following scene. Eggman just blew up half of the fuckin moon and she comes in pretending to ride his nuts, pointing him in Tails' direction, and then hangs up on reporting in on her process by reminding them of the deal and giving an Aside Glance.

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On 5/22/2018 at 11:14 AM, DabigRG said:

Was the Phantom Ruby supposed to be sentient?

Maybe it was originally sentient early on, but was changed. I assume this because of its assigning personalities to the HBH.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

That was my thought the last time I saw the next following scene. Eggman just blew up half of the fuckin moon and she comes in pretending to ride his nuts, pointing him in Tails' direction, and then hangs up on reporting in on her process by reminding them of the deal and giving an Aside Glance.

I'm still fond of the headcanon that Rouge was playing both sides and had Eggman triumphed with Gerald's revenge never happening she would have pledged herself to his service. If called out on her spying she'd just say it was business, nothing personal.

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1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

Maybe it was originally sentient early on, but was changed. I assume this because of its assigning personalities to the HBH.

Well that and the fact that it specifically sought out Eggman, created robot designs that are very out of his styles, and created a Zavok clone that could not only talk, but may have been running the Death Egg prisons the whole. 

Also, there's a theory that it may have been influencing Infinite.

26 minutes ago, Almar said:

I'm still fond of the headcanon that Rouge was playing both sides and had Eggman triumphed with Gerald's revenge never happening she would have pledged herself to his service. If called out on her spying she'd just say it was business, nothing personal.

That's messed up . Especially considering he was repeatedly trying to fire the Cannon again....

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It might be messed, but I sincerely believe that it's the best way to address the question of what stopped Rouge from just swiping the Chaos Emeralds while Shadow and Eggman were busy. She'd be hanging upside down waiting to see who came out on top. Team Sonic wins she goes back home and just tells her superior that she only did what was needed to accomplish her mission then gets her jewels. Team Eggman wins she glides over to Eggman as he's about to blast the United Federation off the map then swears to be a good subject in his new empire (waving off accusations of treachery by saying she sees that Eggman has more to offer than the UF). Gerald's revenge threw a wrench in that so she ran over to where Team Sonic was and told them what's happening with Ark.

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I know I have this arc easily on hand, but was this passage true?:

Quote

However, the Battle Kukku is still around (he was created and is owned by Sega, whereas the retconned characters were lost due to a lawsuit from a writer who had made them) and is hinted to be a potential future rival

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