Your Unanswered Sonic Questions

[Sonic Fan J]

If I remember correctly part of Tails' point to being invented was to provide kids the chance to play Sonic together so I kind of wonder how the franchise would have developed had that 2P character had been someone who reasonably shares Sonic's moveset like Mighty (or had the potential to like Amy) instead of making a helicopter-tailed fox whose key feature was flying when he couldn't actually keep up by imitating Sonic.

[Myst]

Has GUN been retconned?

Will we see humans in Sonic again? (Outside the movie, that is)

[Heckboy]

3 hours ago, Myst said:

Has GUN been retconned?

Will we see humans in Sonic again? (Outside the movie, that is)

Well, you'll always see at least one.

[Razule]

4 hours ago, Myst said:

Has GUN been retconned?

Will we see humans in Sonic again? (Outside the movie, that is)

They're on the human planet.

[Myst]

14 minutes ago, Razule said:

They're on the human planet.

Oh that's right. Lizuka's 'two worlds' nonsense..

It'd make a lot more sense if Sonic & his friends all lived on some uncharted island untouched by man. (Where Green Hill, Labyrinth, Aquatic Ruin, Mystic Cave, Hill Top, and all that are) Meanwhile, G.U.N HQ, Station Square, Westopolis, Spagonia, Soleanna and all that could be on other countries Sonic & friends visit via the Tornado. (And Angel Island just sorta hovers wherever)

I mean, it's pretty darn stupid that the only explanation for humans in Sonic is that he somehow traveled to a different planet with no explanation.

[Sonic Fan J]

Two questions today.

1) Why is it that I see so many people misspell Takashi Iizuka's name as Lizuka? is the capital "i" just that hard to read in most common internet fonts since it cuts off the top and bottom lines or is it a passive aggressive jab against him?

2) While I doubt this one would happen, considering the praise for a lot Netflix's recent projects and a concern I saw floating around that Paramount would just sell the Sonic movie to Netflix, I was wondering what would happen if something like that did happen and Netflix ended up with the Sonic license?

[Splash the Otter]

40 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Why is it that I see so many people misspell Takashi Iizuka's name as Lizuka? is the capital "i" just that hard to read in most common internet fonts since it cuts off the top and bottom lines or is it a passive aggressive jab against him?

I don't understand it either. The man's Japanese, he wouldn't have an L anywhere in his name!

[Guergy]

Where does Eggman/Robotnik get the funds to build his machines? It isn't as though that those badniks are cheap.

[Heckboy]

5 minutes ago, Guergy said:

Where does Eggman/Robotnik get the funds to build his machines? It isn't as though that those badniks are cheap.

There's some background stuff in the games that suggest he runs several shell corporations. Eggman Industries, Robotnik Corporation, MeteorTech. Plus I think Battle mentions he also sells tech on the black market. This notion of Eggman as a businessman appears to go all the way back to the early days.

[DabigRG]

4 minutes ago, Heckboy said:

There's some background stuff in the games that suggest he runs several shell corporations. Eggman Industries, Robotnik Corporation, MeteorTech. Plus I think Battle mentions he also sells tech on the black market. This notion of Eggman as a businessman appears to go all the way back to the early days.

Eat your heart out, Lex Luthor.

[___-_]

I got a question about Sonic Mania / 3&K and how they went about the emeralds.

TLDR: Which of the two games was right in depicting the emeralds? Did Mania go astray from what was originally intended by making two emerald types, the Chaos and Super Emeralds, into one? Did Sega screw up themselves with Sonic 2's and Sonic 3's story of the emeralds, or did everyone screw up?

Long Version: So, from what I used to understand just by going off the in-game cutscenes alone in Sonic 3&K, I had thought that Sonic, just coming from Sonic 2, mind you, had all the emeralds and brought them to Angel Island, lost them due to Knuckles, then later on made those same emeralds into Super Emeralds by like super charging them on the altar or whatever.

And then later on with Mania, we had that artwork of Eggman juggling the emeralds, pretty much explaining why the Chaos Emeralds looked different from Sonic 1 - recent Sonic games and the Super Emeralds"; We only saw their top view in Sonic 1 but they were always the same shape as shown in the later games. And as you can see when playing Mania, they still have the Super Emeralds intact, but grayed out (The weird thing though is that they're all already there even though it's possible the player might not have gotten all of the regular emeralds at that point of getting there, implying they're already their own type of emeralds as well despite what the Eggman artwork shown). Other than that, I thought nothing more of it.

Now, from reading the Sonic 3 Japanese translated manual which is apparently the intended lore, Eggman had actually stolen Angel Island's Chaos Emeralds aka the "Super Emeralds" prior to Sonic reaching Angel Island with Super Sonic. So now I'm inclined to believe that there were actually two separate types of emeralds all together, since Sonic had to have gotten his from Sonic 2's West Side Island, aka the true home place for those emeralds, according to Sonic 2's manual and how only days went by the end of Sonic 2 leading up to Sonic 3 according to that game's manual. Plus, Angel Island already had an altar in place of where the emeralds would be near the Master Emerald, and Sonic's never been to Angel Island until that very game, so that'd make sense right there how there'd need to be two separate emerald types. It just confuses me as to why the in-game cutscenes would they have Sonic 2's emerald seemingly transform into Angel Island's if they're supposed to be different. Unless that was a limitation of the Genesis where like they couldn't show Eggman losing the Angel Island emeralds by the end of Sonic 3 before Sonic & Knuckles or something, it leaves me wondering if they forgot themselves that they wrote there was supposed to be two emerald types that they just made into one and fazed out Sonic 2's emeralds.... So which is it?

Idk I'm a lil confused and doing a lil too much Sonic lore exploring at the moment haha.

[Muscles Maximum]

On 4/3/2019 at 1:41 PM, Sonic Fan J said:

Two questions today.

1) Why is it that I see so many people misspell Takashi Iizuka's name as Lizuka? is the capital "i" just that hard to read in most common internet fonts since it cuts off the top and bottom lines or is it a passive aggressive jab against him?

I’ve wondered this too but I’m pretty sure it’s just because some people probably just think the I is a lowercase L, for some reason.

As a weeb, most people don’t know enough about the Japanese language to know they don’t use the letter L.

[Diogenes]

13 minutes ago, StriCNYN3 said:

I got a question about Sonic Mania / 3&K and how they went about the emeralds.

TLDR: Which of the two games was right in depicting the emeralds? Did Mania go astray from what was originally intended by making two emerald types, the Chaos and Super Emeralds, into one? Did Sega screw up themselves with Sonic 2's and Sonic 3's story of the emeralds, or did everyone screw up?

The real answer is just that the story wasn't that big a deal back on the Genesis and what existed was often vague and inconsistent, so there simply isn't a clear, singular truth about what was "really" going on. Both South and West Side Islands are said to be "the" resting place of "the" Chaos Emeralds, Knuckles was guarding a set in Hidden Palace at some point and it's not actually clear where they vanished to, whatever set Sonic collects in 3 clearly triggers the existence/return(???) of the Super Emeralds but we don't actually know what the relationship between them is, they're octagonal in Sonic 1 hexagonal in 2 and seemingly octagonal again in 3 except they have pentagonal faces in the special stages...it's really just kind of a mess. Things didn't really start settling down until SA or so, and since then they've been pretty clear about there only being one set of 7 emeralds (+1 Master...and the Sol Emeralds if you want to be exhaustive) so I just assume that and try not to worry about the details.

[___-_]

41 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The real answer is just that the story wasn't that big a deal back on the Genesis and what existed was often vague and inconsistent, so there simply isn't a clear, singular truth about what was "really" going on. Both South and West Side Islands are said to be "the" resting place of "the" Chaos Emeralds, Knuckles was guarding a set in Hidden Palace at some point and it's not actually clear where they vanished to, whatever set Sonic collects in 3 clearly triggers the existence/return(???) of the Super Emeralds but we don't actually know what the relationship between them is, they're octagonal in Sonic 1 hexagonal in 2 and seemingly octagonal again in 3 except they have pentagonal faces in the special stages...it's really just kind of a mess. Things didn't really start settling down until SA or so, and since then they've been pretty clear about there only being one set of 7 emeralds (+1 Master...and the Sol Emeralds if you want to be exhaustive) so I just assume that and try not to worry about the details.

After reading the manuals, I figured that for the Sonic 1 and 2 Chaos Emeralds jumping from hexagonal to octagonal and all sorts of gonals were generally "soft redesigns" so to speak, still intended to be the same emeralds because Sonic 2's manual is referring to Sonic 1's emeralds and how South Island wasn't the real home place for them and that there was a 7th one, vs Sonic 3&K's Angel Island's Chaos Emeralds where they're seemingly going out of their way explaining to you that they're different emeralds this time around. I consider the redesigns of the emeralds of Sonic 1/2 like Classic and Modern Sonic's aesthetics, where they're the same character but changed up a bit just because. 

I do agree the story is kinda funky tho haha. In Sonic 2, they make it seem like West Side Island is basically was part of Angel Island with its back story of the emeralds and the ancient legend involved, like how that place also had greedy people trying to misuse the emeralds power, but ended up having the gods lock them away somewhere. You'd think they'd be the same ones until you see Super Sonic at the beginning of Sonic 3. It's all very confusing haha. I just really wanted to see what other people thought of since I just recently started reading the Japanese Manuals of the classics.... and I'm legit surprised they kinda kept the Sonic Adventure Knuckles / Chaos Emerald esque back story since Sonic 2.

[Pengi]

5 hours ago, StriCNYN3 said:

Now, from reading the Sonic 3 Japanese translated manual which is apparently the intended lore, Eggman had actually stolen Angel Island's Chaos Emeralds aka the "Super Emeralds" prior to Sonic reaching Angel Island with Super Sonic.

I'm not sure which translation you read, but this isn't what happened. The 7 Chaos Emeralds Knuckles was guarding on the Floating Island mysteriously disappeared. Eggman didn't steal them.

[___-_]

5 minutes ago, Pengi said:

I'm not sure which translation you read, but this isn't what happened. The 7 Chaos Emeralds Knuckles was guarding on the Floating Island mysteriously disappeared. Eggman didn't steal them.

I got it from Sonic Retro's coverage. The translator herself, Windii, is also very credible. 

But in any case, both the US and Jap versions of the manual state that Eggman steals the emeralds as he tricks Knuckles into thinking Sonic took them, which is the plot of the game, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

[Pengi]

17 minutes ago, StriCNYN3 said:

I got it from Sonic Retro's coverage. The translator herself, Windii, is also very credible. 

But in any case, both the US and Jap versions of the manual state that Eggman steals the emeralds as he tricks Knuckles into thinking Sonic took them, which is the plot of the game, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3_manuals#Translation_from_Japanese

Quote

 

On that day, he was patrolling the island's altar as he usually does.
Protecting the seven Chaos Emeralds that control the power of the "Pillar" that sleeps in the depths of the island's earth was a mission given to him.

His name is Knuckles the Echidna. His friends on the island call him Knuckle.
Having been born and raised on this island, all of its nature and animals were his friends. And it is the crystal "pillar" of the Chaos Emeralds that protects those friends.

It happened without warning.
When Knuckle tried to make sure that there was nothing strange going on with any of the Chaos Emeralds, the Chaos Emeralds before him shone with a momentary flash of light, and before he knew it, began vibrating abnormally.

Knuckle was bewildered by this never-before-seen phenomenon.
The Chaos Emeralds' vibrations were getting more and more intense before his eyes.
Then, when the vibration reached its climax, a flash twinkled with the sound of "kiiin."
The last thing Knuckle remembered was feeling like his own body gently floating, and then he was interrupted.

When Knuckle regained consciousness, his body was thrown out of the altar.
As he slowly rose his body and looked around the vicinity, a partially destroyed emerald altar came into Knuckle's view.
Knuckle hurriedly leaped into the altar.
However, the Chaos Emeralds that should have been in there had vanished, without leaving a single fragment behind.

 

 

[___-_]

@PengiYea, there's more to that when you read more below. Continuing where you left off:

Knuckle hurriedly leaped into the altar.
However, the Chaos Emeralds that should have been in there had vanished, without leaving a single fragment behind.

Knuckle went out of the altar dumbfounded.
Then, when he turned his feeble glance into the distance... He noticed something strange appearing near the lake.
When he saw that large, round object shaped like an egg, Knuckle felt a shiver along his spine.

"That large egg is the legendary dragon's..."
There's no mistaking that this egg must be the one that appears in the legend described in the Chaos Emerald's altar, the egg that will bring disaster to this island.

Knuckle patrolled the altar of seven Chaos Emeralds that exist on the island for the following few days, but all the Chaos Emeralds have disappeared without a trace.
And then, while he was examining every nook and cranny of the island, still not giving up, Knuckle encountered an unfamiliar man in the forest.

As soon as that man, who called himself Dr. Eggman, learned that Knuckle is the Chaos Emeralds' guardian, he informed him this.
"I am a scientist who came to investigate that egg. Hmmm, if you are the Chaos Emeralds' guardian then I have to tell you this. The truth is, you see, I'm followed by an evil hedgehog named Sonic who is disturbing my research, and he seems to be targeting the Chaos Emeralds on this island."

[Diogenes]

11 minutes ago, StriCNYN3 said:

I got it from Sonic Retro's coverage. The translator herself, Windii, is also very credible. 

But in any case, both the US and Jap versions of the manual state that Eggman steals the emeralds as he tricks Knuckles into thinking Sonic took them, which is the plot of the game, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

At a stretch you could interpret the English manuals saying this, but it's really not conclusive in either version. Eggman decides to steal the emeralds, he tricks Knuckles as part of his plan to get the emeralds, but there isn't a stated point where he actually gets them. And the Japanese manual has them seemingly magically vanish before Knuckles' eyes, before (or possibly just as) the Death Egg lands on the island, and he doesn't meet Eggman until days later.

[___-_]

18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

At a stretch you could interpret the English manuals saying this, but it's really not conclusive in either version. Eggman decides to steal the emeralds, he tricks Knuckles as part of his plan to get the emeralds, but there isn't a stated point where he actually gets them. And the Japanese manual has them seemingly magically vanish before Knuckles' eyes, before (or possibly just as) the Death Egg lands on the island, and he doesn't meet Eggman until days later.

I was actually just about to say the key difference between the US and Jap versions. 

In the US ver., Eggman doesn't steal them yet. He plans on doing so, but he has to convince Knuckles that Sonic has them first.

In the Jap ver., however, Eggman already has them, and still convinces Knuckles that Sonic is the one that has them.

You know he has to have the Chaos Emeralds on him prior to everything starting because the in-game cutscenes shows him with his Death Egg up and running. He can't do that if he didn't have the emeralds on him because it was just destroyed from Sonic 2, and the whole point of him being on Angel Island is to grab the emeralds so he can get his Death Egg back up and running again. 

[Diogenes]

Okay can you point out to me the specific part that shows that Eggman has the emeralds? Because when it talks about them glowing and vibrating and then there's a flash of light and they're gone, it sounds like something like this is happening, not like Eggman is stealing them.

[Pengi]

25 minutes ago, StriCNYN3 said:

@PengiYea, there's more to that when you read more below. Continuing where you left off:

Knuckle hurriedly leaped into the altar.
However, the Chaos Emeralds that should have been in there had vanished, without leaving a single fragment behind.

Knuckle went out of the altar dumbfounded.
Then, when he turned his feeble glance into the distance... He noticed something strange appearing near the lake.
When he saw that large, round object shaped like an egg, Knuckle felt a shiver along his spine.

"That large egg is the legendary dragon's..."
There's no mistaking that this egg must be the one that appears in the legend described in the Chaos Emerald's altar, the egg that will bring disaster to this island.

Knuckle patrolled the altar of seven Chaos Emeralds that exist on the island for the following few days, but all the Chaos Emeralds have disappeared without a trace.
And then, while he was examining every nook and cranny of the island, still not giving up, Knuckle encountered an unfamiliar man in the forest.

As soon as that man, who called himself Dr. Eggman, learned that Knuckle is the Chaos Emeralds' guardian, he informed him this.
"I am a scientist who came to investigate that egg. Hmmm, if you are the Chaos Emeralds' guardian then I have to tell you this. The truth is, you see, I'm followed by an evil hedgehog named Sonic who is disturbing my research, and he seems to be targeting the Chaos Emeralds on this island."

The Chaos Emeralds vibrated and vanished. There's nothing in the text that says Eggman stole them.

[___-_]

Yea, here's from that same source on that same page on Retro:

Dr. Eggman's Conspiracy

Dr. Eggman, who escaped from the fallen Death Egg, was aware that the Chaos Emeralds were on the floating island.
He could catch a signal of a huge Chaos Emerald from a crack in the earth opened by the Death Egg. Using that energy, it is possible to let the Death Egg fly out into space again.

Dr. Eggman started building a base on the floating island at a quick pace in order to obtain the Chaos Emeralds.
Then, he remodeled the animals into robots, and changed the floating island's nature into a more severe one with an environmental change machine.

"Daaaahahaha!! Sonic, you're too late to come to this island. This time, by using the Chaos Emeralds, the world will be mine!"

The actors and the stage are all set.
Sonic's new adventure will now begin here.

8 minutes ago, Pengi said:

The Chaos Emeralds vibrated and vanished. There's nothing in the text that says Eggman stole them.

You have to read the whole thing to understand the full context.

Dr. Eggman's Death Egg from Sonic 2 crash landed on Angel Island. Eggman states he couldn't get it to run again after what Sonic just did to it.

Then Eggman gets energy readings of the Chaos and Master emeralds after the big crack he did to the Island after crash landing his Death Egg onto it. Eggman then starts his plans to grab the emerald by making a base on top of Angel Island, which is what the Launch Base Zone is.

Knuckles then notices the emeralds shake violently before a big explosion of sorts happens. At this point the emeralds are gone and Knuckles got kicked out the emerald altar and was knocked unconscious. When he wakes up, he notices an EGG in the sky, aka the Death Egg. Following that, he notices Eggman right next to him, which is when Eggman lies to him about Sonic being evil, targeting the emeralds and all that stuff. 

So there you go. Eggman has them because now his Death Egg is running, which he specifically said he wasn't able to without the emeralds.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, StriCNYN3 said:

Yea, here's from that same source on that same page on Retro:

Dr. Eggman's Conspiracy

Dr. Eggman, who escaped from the fallen Death Egg, was aware that the Chaos Emeralds were on the floating island.
He could catch a signal of a huge Chaos Emerald from a crack in the earth opened by the Death Egg. Using that energy, it is possible to let the Death Egg fly out into space again.

Dr. Eggman started building a base on the floating island at a quick pace in order to obtain the Chaos Emeralds.
Then, he remodeled the animals into robots, and changed the floating island's nature into a more severe one with an environmental change machine.

"Daaaahahaha!! Sonic, you're too late to come to this island. This time, by using the Chaos Emeralds, the world will be mine!"

The actors and the stage are all set.
Sonic's new adventure will now begin here.

Yes that's Eggman building Launch Base, detecting the Master Emerald, and trying to find it and the other emeralds. Nothing about this shows him actually obtaining them. And that he tried to launch the Death Egg isn't proof; the Death Egg was functional back in Sonic 2 without a single emerald, and he failed to get it back up into space because he didn't have the infinite energy magic rocks he was looking for.

[___-_]

13 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yes that's Eggman building Launch Base, detecting the Master Emerald, and trying to find it and the other emeralds. Nothing about this shows him actually obtaining them. And that he tried to launch the Death Egg isn't proof; the Death Egg was functional back in Sonic 2 without a single emerald, and he failed to get it back up into space because he didn't have the infinite energy magic rocks he was looking for.

As I stated above in my edited comment, take note that Eggman's Death Egg was completely destroyed and he himself says he needed the Chaos Emeralds to fix it and get it back up and running again. Later on Knuckles sees the Death Egg working.

Also, the point of Sonic 2 was to prevent Eggman from getting the emeralds in order for him to not complete the Death Egg. So I don't think Eggman had the whole thing down completed yet.

But with all that said, you see in Sonic 3 that in Launch Base Zone, the Death Egg is flying and fully restored, so that tells you that Eggman already has the Angel Island emeralds.