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Your Unanswered Sonic Questions

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7 hours ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

Eh, a lot of the evidence is really vague, based on a cocky statement or "near light speed" being the statement, and interpretations by fans that are mostly used to support the FTL claims simply because they're instances of him being "very fast".

Most descriptions peg him at supersonic and hypersonic, with like, one or two manuals or guides saying lightspeed (and even then, has no one checked to see if it's a translation thing?), and even the games make special notice of the fact that he needs certain abilities to propel himself at lightspeed temporarily.

 

Every instance of FTL is contradicted by every other canon bits of information we know, and the very existence of "Light Speed Dash" or "Light Speed Attack" would not be needed or even treated as special as they are. His "Boost" and the ability in Sonic Rush and Sonic Rivals are explained as "propelling him forward at supersonic speeds" acting as a bullet that pierces through the Badniks in his way.

Super Sonic, meanwhile, is stated as "near light speed" and this is supported by him reaching the moon in seconds in Advance, I think it was? That requires subluminal, or relativistic speeds.

If anything, he can reach light speed for short moments in the games and it isn't super casual, but Super Sonic would likely actually be the form that pushes him above it.

Makes sense.

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Also what part of SatSR has him running across multiple universes in a way that implies FTL travel? He's inside of a book, because of a genie. How do you even begin to measure that sort of thing?

I'm just going by what was stated. We don't know the size of these "universes".

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8 hours ago, Diogenes said:

If he's supposed to be able to run faster than the speed of light at this point (which I doubt, and I really hope isn't the case, as it's dumb as fuck), then it's because of massive power creep. Sonic started out at more of a Road Runner/Speedy Gonzales kind of level, superhumanly fast but not "casually destroy the laws of physics" fast. But between exaggeration for the sake of jokes, the need to constantly one-up itself, and fanboy overhyping, he's apparently now got to be the fastest fast guy who ever did a fast instead of operating on a sane and reasonable power scale.

Also what part of SatSR has him running across multiple universes in a way that implies FTL travel? He's inside of a book, because of a genie. How do you even begin to measure that sort of thing?

The ending, IIRC. He apparently travels through the multiple storybook worlds or something before somehow popping out of the book due to his speed? It's probably not meant to be a serious feat as it makes no sense and he's never traveled between dimensions by pure running speed before, if I remember right.

And yeah, we still don't even actually know the lengths he traveled or how he managed to somehow run in space since that's implied?

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4 hours ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

I'm just going by what was stated. We don't know the size of these "universes".

6 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

The ending, IIRC. He apparently travels through the multiple storybook worlds or something before somehow popping out of the book due to his speed?

Really? This is the relevant text:

Quote

And so, the legendary blue hedgehog, having saved the world of the Arabian Nights, ran endlessly, until he found his way back into his own world.
Along the way, he had many adventures... but those are stories... for another time.

Nothing about this implies that he's using his speed to cross entire universes...at all. It says nothing about how he eventually got back, only that he did, after a long journey. Almost like he's the hero in some epic story or something.

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Oh, goodie.

Now I have a relevant text to quote whenever someone brings it up again.

Tell me how you feel about Sonic's Black Hole escape and his and Omega's statement in Colors? Or how about Super Sonic flying past "stars" in his boss fight with the Nega Mother Wisp? And then him flying all the way to Nonaggression Zone which is, according to fans, "another nebula"?

Also, do you agree with the sentiment that Super Sonic has no time limit, like some claim? And that he supposedly has infinite stamina?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on all of these, because they are frequently brought up in discussions over his power a lot. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

Tell me how you feel about Sonic's Black Hole escape

Well, y'know...he didn't. Sonic failed to outrun a black hole, and needed the wisps to bail him out. But it's not as if the supposed black hole acted like a real black hole, considering neither he nor Eggman and the bots ended up being spaghettified and torn into elementary particles after getting sucked into it. It is a fictional story for children about a superpowered cartoon animal, after all, not a realistic physics simulation.

4 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

and his and Omega's statement in Colors?

Exaggeration for comedic and metaphorical effect. If someone insists on taking it literally though, Omega was just extrapolating what speed Sonic could potentially reach in the future based on how much he improved between two trials, not describing what speed Sonic could achieve in the present, and there's no reason the trend actually has to continue at the same rate anyway (just because you've improved 130% since last time, that doesn't mean you can improve by 130% endlessly).

And Sonic was just bragging, because that's what he does.

4 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

Or how about Super Sonic flying past "stars" in his boss fight with the Nega Mother Wisp?

Clearly just a visual effect to make a fight in space look better.

4 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

And then him flying all the way to Nonaggression Zone which is, according to fans, "another nebula"?

The background's clearly based on a nebula but that again is just a visual effect to make a nice looking battle. Anyone trying to argue that it means Super Sonic can exceed the speed of light would have to believe the same of Eggman's dinky little Egg Mobile, since he comes along too. Also he seems to have no trouble with the vacuum of space, considering that version of the Egg Mobile doesn't even have a glass dome or anything. It's almost like the series isn't trying to conform to reality or something.

4 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

Also, do you agree with the sentiment that Super Sonic has no time limit, like some claim? And that he supposedly has infinite stamina?

"No limit" and "infinite" are hells of claims to make. We've seen plenty of evidence that Super forms have limits; the common ring-based time limit, a health bar in Unleashed, a few instances of attacks that can knock out rings, even rarer cases of Sonic being knocked out of his super form, deaths by crushing/drowning/bottomless pit, Shadow's "death" in SA2...you could make fair arguments that some of these are just gameplay mechanics but I can't imagine finding arguments to dismiss all of them. And conversely what's the argument for anything being infinite or limitless? That he has infinite boost energy...for the limited time you can remain Super?

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Apparently, because of Sonic Advance which shows he can "be in the form for as long as he wants since it's said he remained in space for days before coming back to the planet"

And yeah, I really do believe they're basing infinite energy/stamina on that, and the supposed "Unlimited power" the Chaos Emeralds possess.

Some even call him nigh-omnipresent or infinite in speed because he can fight in voids where time and space are screwed up, like Solaris (also because they apparently fought in the past, present, and future, but this was simply a statement made by Silver to show the bounds he'd go to save his world and the actual fight was implied to represent those due to the tinelines the three were born in), Secret Rings, Null Space and the thing created by Eggman's machine in the end of Forces, Black Knight, and Time Eater, and Eggwizard or whatever the Rush boss was.

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43 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

 

The background's clearly based on a nebula but that again is just a visual effect to make a nice looking battle. Anyone trying to argue that it means Super Sonic can exceed the speed of light would have to believe the same of Eggman's dinky little Egg Mobile, since he comes along too. Also he seems to have no trouble with the vacuum of space, considering that version of the Egg Mobile doesn't even have a glass dome or anything.

Yeah-hehhehheheh, I was about to say. :lol:

Granted, that's the only thing I really see holding him back, but still. That's a BIG load.

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5 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

Apparently, because of Sonic Advance which shows he can "be in the form for as long as he wants since it's said he remained in space for days before coming back to the planet"

Thing is, we don't actually see Sonic in the several days that he's missing, we don't know for sure if he was on the moon or if he was Super the whole time. To be fair the fact that he's seen streaking downwards through the sky in Super form implies he just came back from the moon, but it's not quite rock solid.

And a few days is a far cry from "no limit", anyway.

5 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

And yeah, I really do believe they're basing infinite energy/stamina on that, and the supposed "Unlimited power" the Chaos Emeralds possess.

Even if the emeralds themselves have infinite power that doesn't mean Sonic can handle their power endlessly. And how exactly is their "unlimited power" defined, anyway? They've been drained twice, the second time requiring some ritual in the Gaia temples to restore them to their usual state. Even if Sonic had the physical ability to remain Super indefinitely, we can't know if the emeralds can support a Super form indefinitely.

5 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

Some even call him nigh-omnipresent or infinite in speed because he can fight in voids where time and space are screwed up, like Solaris (also because they apparently fought in the past, present, and future, but this was simply a statement made by Silver to show the bounds he'd go to save his world and the actual fight was implied to represent those due to the tinelines the three were born in), Secret Rings, Null Space and the thing created by Eggman's machine in the end of Forces, Black Knight, and Time Eater, and Eggwizard or whatever the Rush boss was.

And on what grounds do they claim you need to be omnipresent or infinitely fast to operate in those spaces? Solaris may have ripped space and time a new one but that didn't stop nearly a dozen characters from wandering around in it, including complete normies like Elise and Eggman. Likewise the avatar character is, by design, meant to be just some ordinary person but they have no trouble in either null space or Eggman's equivalent at the end of the game. Some of the other settings may be more hazardous to life, but we don't have any actual evidence of it, regardless of how broken the rules of physics are implied to be.

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23 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Thing is, we don't actually see Sonic in the several days that he's missing, we don't know for sure if he was on the moon or if he was Super the whole time. To be fair the fact that he's seen streaking downwards through the sky in Super form implies he just came back from the moon, but it's not quite rock solid.

And a few days is a far cry from "no limit", anyway.

Even if the emeralds themselves have infinite power that doesn't mean Sonic can handle their power endlessly. And how exactly is their "unlimited power" defined, anyway? They've been drained twice, the second time requiring some ritual in the Gaia temples to restore them to their usual state. Even if Sonic had the physical ability to remain Super indefinitely, we can't know if the emeralds can support a Super form indefinitely.

And on what grounds do they claim you need to be omnipresent or infinitely fast to operate in those spaces? Solaris may have ripped space and time a new one but that didn't stop nearly a dozen characters from wandering around in it, including complete normies like Elise and Eggman. Likewise the avatar character is, by design, meant to be just some ordinary person but they have no trouble in either null space or Eggman's equivalent at the end of the game. Some of the other settings may be more hazardous to life, but we don't have any actual evidence of it, regardless of how broken the rules of physics are implied to be.

There's also the argument that he just kinda chilled there and had nothing to do for those few days, and it's a one-time instance contradicted heavily by offical canon info.

Also, as for those boss fights, it's mainly because thoae bosses could effect universes to some degree, and apparently to truly destroy a universe requires the destruction of both time and space as well as the physical matter, so since the bosses are clearly above time and space, this then thusly means that Super Sonic is as well.

And this also clearly means Super Sonic can destroy universes, obviously, and it supports the claims of power the Eneralda have as well as that one zone in Sonic R that showed star systems in what's supposedly "the inside of an Emerald". Totally not just passive hax and non-physical things that these bosses use to achieve their feats, because who'd think that?

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50 minutes ago, Pengi said:

Citation needed.

PC version. Manual or description? I know it's got something to do with the PC version. I only mention it because I was watching FTCR's Let's Play of Sonic R and they mention this in the beginning of playing that course 

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2 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

Why did Eggman go back to using animals to power his robots in Lost World?

Because he had the Zeti to collect the mobini for him. Not to mention it's seemingly a quicker way to produce Badniks on short notice.

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9 hours ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

PC version. Manual or description? I know it's got something to do with the PC version. I only mention it because I was watching FTCR's Let's Play of Sonic R and they mention this in the beginning of playing that course 

None of the manuals say that. I’m not sure if the Help file is available online.

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On 2/24/2019 at 7:33 AM, Splash the Otter said:

Because it's his name?

Why was he named Sonic? Were his parents fortune tellers? Could he run as soon as he came from the womb?

..wait Sonic characters don't have parents, were never born, and don't age, never mind

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25 minutes ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

I've never understood the physics of Sonic's homing attack and the light speed dash. Does him spinning build up some sort of energy that propels him forward/up?

Um, yes?

At the very least, the Light Speed Dash relies on rings to make him travel further and faster than normal.

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