Jump to content
Person

Your Unanswered Sonic Questions

Recommended Posts

I have to agree with @Diogenes @StriCNYN3. The evidence that you are supplying is what is called in a court of law "circumstantial". It means that you are effectively using a set of circumstances that could match up to match up. You claim though that this is evidence by insisting on reading between the lines and there in is the problem. The burden of proof lays with you, but at no point have you provided direct evidence that either Eggman obtained the Chaos Emeralds or that the Death Egg was completely destroyed. Now you may question that second part, but the very manual you are referencing points out a couple of sentences later that the Death Egg despite being completely destroyed in fact crash lands onto the island and pushes it down into the ocean. This implies that the Death Egg is both still complete enough to be recognizable as the Death Egg and to be heavy enough to push an entire flying continent into the ocean. If that's completely destroyed then the I need a new dictionary pretty badly since last time I checked destroyed is what happened to the Death Star at the end of Episode 4 (there isn't even debris left in case you didn't know) while the Death Egg might better be described as ruined since it is in need of repairs. And if we are going to read between the lines as you insist, the manual contradicts total destruction by having it crash land after it was totally destroyed. Your argument implies that there was nothing left by relying on the start and ignores the contradiction that follows. This internal contradiction however invalidates you entire argument as your argument does not work for as long as the contradiction exists the Death Egg must be presumed to both not exist anymore and exist at the same time. Considering the Death Egg is not a quantum object this is scientifically impossible not to mention that the narrative requires the Death Egg to exist after it's destruction so that way it can crash land which results in the internal inconsistency that prevents your argument from working.

Now all of that leads us back to your original question about Emerald sets and how many of them there are; however many are needed at the point of the narrative to make the story work. Internal inconsistencies like this are a bane of the franchise and have been since the beginning as the franchise has always tried to have both no continuity but also interconnected lore at the same time. If you really want to see how bad this can be just ask Knuckles fans what Knuckles' duty is or ask @Shadowlax about why Infinite only works in Forces by writing the plot to fit anytime he needs to be a threat.

And lastly just to wrap it up let me quote you real quick

2 hours ago, StriCNYN3 said:

 Does the manual literally have to hand hold the audience and say "And at that moment when the emeralds vanished, Eggman took it all for himself"?

The answer to this question is yes. At no point in game, or in the manual, is it stated or shown that Eggman has the emeralds. There is no proof, only circumstantial evidence which is for all legal and practical definitions, not proof. It's good for supposition and debate, but under no circumstances can it be used as proof alone. So again yes, for it to be known that Eggman has the Emeralds it needs to be explicitly stated or shown as otherwise it is up for debate as their is no proof.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of mine:

* Where did Amy got the Piko Piko hammer? Was it a gift by destiny? A relic passed down through generations of clan Rose? Or something she found inside a specially marked cereal box?

* Who is Cream's father?

* Why was Eggman so bloody determined to kidnap Vanilla, an apparently ordinary mother that had nothing special about herself, by all means in Sonic Advance 2?

* How did the Chaotix meet and became a team? And no, Knuckles Chaotix doesn't count. I think there has to be a backstory to how a rockin crocodile whose dream of becoming a famed detective, a shinobi chameleon who has mastered the shadow arts and a scattered brained little bee all got together.

* How is it possible for Sonic to eat fully loaded chilidogs and not get a single stain of chili sauce on his perfectly clean white gloves?

* Who in-universe keeps placing springs and all other sort of gimmicks in such a convenient way that help Sonic navigate through places that he just could not possibly on his own?

* How can Big be featured as a cameo in one version of SA2 but not in another? Is he some kind of God?

* What happened to Chocola after Heroes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

Some of mine:

* Where did Amy got the Piko Piko hammer? Was it a gift by destiny? A relic passed down through generations of clan Rose? Or something she found inside a specially marked cereal box?

I have a headcanon that Tails gave it to her. This assumes that it's the same hammer from Tails' Adventure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

 

* Where did Amy got the Piko Piko hammer? Was it a gift by destiny? A relic passed down through generations of clan Rose? Or something she found inside a specially marked cereal box?

 

She bought it at a toy outlet.

 

1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

* Why was Eggman so bloody determined to kidnap Vanilla, an apparently ordinary mother that had nothing special about herself, by all means in Sonic Advance 2?

 

Because he knew otherwise.

1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

 

* How is it possible for Sonic to eat fully loaded chilidogs and not get a single stain of chili sauce on his perfectly clean white gloves?

 

d1a.gif

1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

 

* What happened to Chocola after Heroes?

He hangs around the cottage with Vanilla.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough @Sonic Fan J and the rest of yall

About the Death Egg, I visualize it like a totaled car, where you still see like the husk of it but it's still considered completely destroyed unless one wants to be overly pedantic on terminology. Then it was just a matter of Eggman rebuilding it in the amount of days he had as he would have to along with the rest that he wanted to do on the island, but anyway. 

Yea I'll let the whole thing go since I guess at the end of the day, what I'm saying is just circumstantial.

Not gonna lie tho, it's still irks me that considering this is the 3rd iteration of relatively simple, black and white children's game where out of the 4 casts members on an island with emeralds, 1 of the members being evil who has a history of wanting to steal, admitting he wants to steal again, is stated in game to take action to steal, then with his big evil plans mysteriously succeeding right when the emeralds are missing, but then his same plans starts failing on him just at the right time those emeralds can be found again later on.... I feel like we're giving too much of a blind eye on that amount of evidence, because it's not like we don't know their perspectives. It's all shared in the 3rd person with them openly admitting what their goals are in the manual and explored more in game. It just adds up to me, especially considering the counter evidence. Like how the US manual says Chaos Emeralds makes the island float like it's the only gems in the game. That's wrong going by the actual game events and already makes that source less credible. But I've already stressed this enough too many times I know you guys are already tired of that lol. I'll def leave it alone and will probably come up with a another question another time.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To comment on a previous conversation. Sonic is a franchise where looking at things like manuals internet lore addons and even sometimes in game descriptions are often contradictory to what happens in the games. (Heck what iizuka says himself qualifies this) don't yield the best results as to finding out what's going on. Looking at the games themselves and how the marketing and subsequent games after that react to it is what will give you what is and what isn't. Unless its a situation that so abstract that it requires outside delineation that isn't your own interpretation of events. 

Now to contribute to the topic, I have unanswerable questions.

One is simply, how did knuckles end up on the island alone. I'm gonna assume he had parents... so they had to like...vanish at some point. Did they die defending him? Like legit what happened. We will never get the answer to this question. But its and lways interested me. At least in my head, I like to think of the echidina's as mostly irresponsible. And it would be interesting, in a dark way , if knuckles's parents were still alive and just dumped him off to do that duty. For knuckles to sort of find his family only to learn they aren't really his family his friends are. And maybe he shouldn't hold himself to the traditions of those that came before him because its been shown time and again that its not a good idea. And it serves as a natural transition for him to just leave the island, and maybe find a more technical way to guard the M.E.

Question two, is shadow a hedgehog that Gerald found or is he a hedgehog that Gerald made. Now this will, much like the previous , this will never be answered. Now some of you might be going " Well obviously he made him " we don't actually have confirmation of that. In fact if you look at what happens or what's around in shadow's game and in sonic adventure 2, it suggests the opposite. The nature of shadow's creation is mystery and Gerald at the time was desperate to find something desperate to help his daughters condition and if you ignore Shth and go by the myth that gerald used the echidna ruins as a basis , its not to hard to believe that a desperate doctor grabbed a hedgehog because they are naturally chaos emerald attune and did some experiments. And if you don't ignore Shth which you shouldn't because its canon, those ruins aren't echidina ruins, they are black arms ruins. So that just throws that entire other theory out of the window, and you just wonder why shadow is a hedgehog. Now yes the real reason is " They wanted to create an edgy hedgehog to sell toys " but in the world itself along with geralds penchant for happening to find ancient mythical stuff in the first place it isn't too far fetched to suggest he found a hedgehog....somewhere. Now if you ask me, I believe that all of mephilies and his demons were just old black arms and shadow was someone else who may have been powerful and black arms related even before the events of of sa2, would explain a lot of stuff in that game and Shth.

 

That said, will most likey never get the answer to this question and the previous one. While I would to believe the shadow thing exists written down somewhere but they just couldn't make it work with the time they had. In general a lot of these questions wont get answered because sega hasn't actually given any sincere thought of what they would like a canonical answer to those questions. They may have ideas, but none of them are thought out enough or in some cases relevant enough to warrant them elaborating one. Hence their aversion to even a spin off like boom addressing it. They don't wish to add on anymore lore that might turn some people off. Then again, this new film is rumored to do some sonic back story, but I'm gonna bet it was out of their control and they will distance themselves from this film when it releases to be the uninteresting dumpsterfire that it will most likely be.

But hey speaking of questions that will never get answered

I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS AND THESE WILL SUPER NEVER GET ANSWERED

What was the deal with the ancients from boom, they look like the sonic 4 ( Sonic tails knuckles and amy ) reincarnations maybe? Are there more folks like lyric? Where were they gonna go with that story. Does that mean there were echdina's living in harmony with the rest of the world at some point unlike the normal universe, and if so where are they now, besides knuckles. Where in the heck did this version of shadow come from. Where there any concepts planned to be included in games, comics, TV show ect that didn't actually make it in because cancellation. What was sonic synergy gonna be like before it combined with the comic tv show to become sonic boom. Why was rouge the bat banned from being used in sonic boom, where there other banned characters?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, StriCNYN3 said:

About the Death Egg, I visualize it like a totaled car, where you still see like the husk of it but it's still considered completely destroyed unless one wants to be overly pedantic on terminology. Then it was just a matter of Eggman rebuilding it in the amount of days he had as he would have to along with the rest that he wanted to do on the island, but anyway.

I like this description but pedantic is a thing I can do from experience in this case.

Number of years ago my mom got rear ended at a red light and there was almost no visible damage to her van. It even worked. Started up, could drive, shift gears, work as normal. The insurance company still called it totaled and it became illegal to drive because of unseen damage that did not prevent it from working. It's a real life case of your totally destroyed but not really problem involving the Death Egg. It's why I called out the internal inconsistencies in the narrative as what defeated your argument. It's not that your argument was even weak or not well thought out, it's a matter of the story itself not working making any attempt to rationalize it meaningless.

Anyway I know you were willing to drop it but the invination to be pedantic with experience for the example you cited made me want to address it. Anyway though, I'll try to let it go myself now as well.

-----

Moving on to the topic, why did the Sonic 2 team choose a character to allow for a second player to play at the same time who doesn't naturally fit the gameplay of the time? Instead they forced their design to fit the gameplay rather than coming up with a design that fit the gameplay naturally. I know people love Tails, but when I look at the problems and divisions that the franchise and fanbase suffered from I can actually understand why some blame him as starting everything wrong with the gameplay and additional playable characters as his ability to fly was independent and demanded different rules from what the gameplay was built as and that Sonic was designed to fit into no less. Tails opened the way for countless other characters to ignore the design philosophy of Sonic himself as well as raising fan expectations of every character having their own unique gameplay (it should be noted that even though Knuckles debuted and was playable at the same time as Tails' flight was introduced to the player that Knuckles himself played identically to Sonic until Sonic and Knuckles released and made him different with not even his gliding or climbing appearing at any point in Sonic 3). So again I wonder, why did they design outside of the gameplay and force the design into the gameplay instead of the other way around?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

 

Moving on to the topic, why did the Sonic 2 team choose a character to allow for a second player to play at the same time who doesn't naturally fit the gameplay of the time? Instead they forced their design to fit the gameplay rather than coming up with a design that fit the gameplay naturally. I know people love Tails, but when I look at the problems and divisions that the franchise and fanbase suffered from I can actually understand why some blame him as starting everything wrong with the gameplay and additional playable characters as his ability to fly was independent and demanded different rules from what the gameplay was built as and that Sonic was designed to fit into no less. Tails opened the way for countless other characters to ignore the design philosophy of Sonic himself as well as raising fan expectations of every character having their own unique gameplay (it should be noted that even though Knuckles debuted and was playable at the same time as Tails' flight was introduced to the player that Knuckles himself played identically to Sonic until Sonic and Knuckles released and made him different with not even his gliding or climbing appearing at any point in Sonic 3). So again I wonder, why did they design outside of the gameplay and force the design into the gameplay instead of the other way around?

First I'd like to speculate that Tails was only given flight in the first place because it provided an easy way to get him back on the screen despite all the chaos that comes with Sonic gameplay. If there's some official source that contradicts that let me know but that was always my thoughts on the matter. Letting him fly naturally is just the next natural extension of that. It may not make sense to implement it on paper, but it's definitely something Sonic fans would want to see happen because it's a fun idea. Players would want to feel more like they're playing as Tails and not just a Sonic skin.

In order to keep evolving and shake things up, you have to be able to look critically at things you once thought to be rules, right?  You can't be completely pragmatic and logical about everything because you have to tap into what would make the kids with the controllers enthusiasic. Sometimes, to have a hook, you need to think about what would wow your audience, what they would like to see in a game in their wildest dreams, the type of crazy idea that makes developers excited, and work backwards. That's how you get 'Sonic' in the first place, because it doesn't actually make sense to develop a platformer focused on as moving fast as possible on hardware where you can't actually see what's in front of you. 

Tails's flight is a concept I'm open to having rethought, but I wouldn't say exploring it was a mistake by any means. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m still wondering how I’m supposed to take Generations plot, because Forces makes it clear it wasn’t just a non canon anniversary title. Exactly what is Blazes origin, and why can she remember the events of 06, and does Silver also remember 06? And also, how did Eggman escape the white space? I mean he explains what he did post-colors after his defeat there, so I was hoping the next mainline game would explain in a similar fashion what happened here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, KHCast said:

I’m still wondering how I’m supposed to take Generations plot, because Forces makes it clear it wasn’t just a non canon anniversary title. Exactly what is Blazes origin, and why can she remember the events of 06, and does Silver also remember 06? And also, how did Eggman escape the white space? I mean he explains what he did post-colors after his defeat there, so I was hoping the next mainline game would explain in a similar fashion what happened here. 

  1. Generations happened
  2. She's from the Sol dimension.
  3. (1&2)Because timeline shenanigans.
  4. Probably, but I'd assume not.
  5. They either found the apparent door or Orbot & Cubot got them out.

Because the Timeeater, like Solaris, was ripping up the timeline and leaving various pieces to awkwardly connect, they ended up crossing up somehow and thus Crisis City still existed in some [further] corrupt form, not to mention it would've logically split off Classic into what could considered an alternate dimension.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How did they manage to reach let alone host races on Planet Wisp in Team Sonic Racing.

Not only did they get the racers all the way out there, but they built racetracks that are somehow magically populated by spectators. What? How?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

How did they manage to reach let alone host races on Planet Wisp in Team Sonic Racing.

Not only did they get the racers all the way out there, but they built racetracks that are somehow magically populated by spectators. What? How?

Relatively sure that's gonna get some sort of explanation. Or a sort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, Starlight Carnival already got made into a racetrack way back in transformed. So whatever technology that was used to transport the racers to planet wisp probably wasn’t that different to whatever was used for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I mean, Starlight Carnival already got made into a racetrack way back in transformed. So whatever technology that was used to transport the racers to planet wisp probably wasn’t that different to whatever was used for that.

But is Transformed even canon?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/9/2019 at 4:31 AM, KHCast said:

I mean, Starlight Carnival already got made into a racetrack way back in transformed. So whatever technology that was used to transport the racers to planet wisp probably wasn’t that different to whatever was used for that.

The world tour mode in Transformed wasn't a story mode though. It didn't have to explain any of that because it didn't make any space to address that.

In TSR, there is supposedly a legit adventure mode, with character dialog and an Eccentric Billionaire who organized the whole shindig. Now there is a face to put with all these kart courses, and it becomes an issue as to how they are able to pull this off off-world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/6/2019 at 8:04 PM, Sonic Fan J said:

Moving on to the topic, why did the Sonic 2 team choose a character to allow for a second player to play at the same time who doesn't naturally fit the gameplay of the time? Instead they forced their design to fit the gameplay rather than coming up with a design that fit the gameplay naturally. I know people love Tails, but when I look at the problems and divisions that the franchise and fanbase suffered from I can actually understand why some blame him as starting everything wrong with the gameplay and additional playable characters as his ability to fly was independent and demanded different rules from what the gameplay was built as and that Sonic was designed to fit into no less. Tails opened the way for countless other characters to ignore the design philosophy of Sonic himself as well as raising fan expectations of every character having their own unique gameplay (it should be noted that even though Knuckles debuted and was playable at the same time as Tails' flight was introduced to the player that Knuckles himself played identically to Sonic until Sonic and Knuckles released and made him different with not even his gliding or climbing appearing at any point in Sonic 3). So again I wonder, why did they design outside of the gameplay and force the design into the gameplay instead of the other way around?

To piggyback on Wraith's answer... Tails was already a gameplay clone of Sonic in S2. The player couldn't even make him fly. The gameplay divergence is unrelated to his flying tails, and you can see this by comparing Tails in SA1 (plays like Sonic, but flies with his tails) to Tails in SA2 (doesn't play like Sonic, and also doesn't fly with his tails).

Imagine if SEGA had given us "Larry the Porcupine" instead of a two-tailed fox. Larry would still have followed Sonic in the stages (using some non-flight mechanic to catch up). Larry would've also flown Sonic's biplane in the final game levels. And, most likely, we'd probably end up with a Modern Larry who flew planes, worked on inventions, gave exposition, and didn't fight as much - similar to Modern Tails.

 

* * * * *

RE: S3&K AND THE SUPER EMERALDS

Honestly, you have to understand the Japanese manuals, the Western manuals, and in-game events as entirely different versions of the story. The Japanese manual and the in-game cutscenes are NOT friends with each other.

The manuals show a world where the Emeralds start on the island, and Sonic has no Emeralds. The game itself shows a world where Sonic has the Emeralds, and Knuckles reclaims them.

If you treat the S2 and S3 Chaos Emeralds as different sets, then what happened to the S2 Emeralds after Knuckles stole them from Sonic? Did he toss them in a garbage can, to be forgotten for eternity?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A large part of me doesn't seem to have too much of an interest in unanswered questions within the actual narrative. I've found that most of my questions are relegated to the real-world, behind the scenes stuff. I desperately want to know the answer to a lot of questions pertaining to how the people in charge of overseeing the series view their actions and why they do what they do. I really want to know everything about what goes on over there, so bad.

I want to know the real reason why they're so stingy when it comes to utilizing the characters, even in things where the point is to play as a roster of characters. For so long I've been left to just assume it's because they're afraid of a Sonic 06 repeat but after so long maybe it's morphed into something that's just routine. Or maybe not. I don't know.

Why do all these decisions to change the story and the set-up happen so haphazardly? Why wait so long to tell us something that was apparently the situation the whole time but then continue to not put that in the narrative? I know they have to care about the story somewhat because they keep messing with the details of it, like a child who keeps erasing and re-writing things for a school project that was already submitted to a teacher.

What exactly was going on during all the time between Lost World and Forces?

What's keeping the really outdated look of the character models around?

What's their opinion the characters?

IS there a plan?

How comfortable are you guys with Modern Sonic, really? 

These are all things I can speculate on and they probably have easy enough answers floating around but I just want to know them. I need so much about the behind the scenes situation confirmed. I didn't even ask all the questions I have because so much is floating around in my head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Burger_King?file=Burger_King_Sonic_R_2.jpg

Does anyone recognise the robot in the lower right? The one in the lower left is Cluck from the DiC Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon, so I imagine this is also from one of the cartoons.

 

EDIT: I've found a screenshot of it: https://66.media.tumblr.com/b4b793d553de437732f72c62ee006383/tumblr_inline_pn5g6tHx2R1rupio6_500.png

The walker robot in the lower left. Does it have a name? Does anyone know which episode(s) it appears in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Are there any notable mobian characters that don't have the general muzzle?

Non-mammals like Vector and Espio. But I guess even Charmy has that muzzle. Huh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.