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Your Unanswered Sonic Questions

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2 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

Taylor Swift and Kanye at the VMAs. Not sure if theres a reason the characters were chosen or not, though.

Oh. Okay, I was wondering about that for years! 

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On 7/28/2019 at 4:30 PM, Guergy said:

I always thought that Eggman was just that good at building things. I could be wrong about that and I am no architect. 

He might have. No source states it was Eggman's doing so I kinda wondered:

mjm85UO.png

"Carnival·Night"

"A zone like a park area that shines in the night sky."

kXDN7XM.png

You'd think that if it were an Eggman attraction that they'd mention it. As an example here's what the Japanese manual for 2 says about Chemical Plant for instance:

E1DZaRd.png

"Dr. Eggman's Chemical Factory. Run around the endlessly packed pavilion and run around in the various types." / the rest--

States right from the get go that it's Eggman's architecture.

The manuals do also state that Launch Base Zone is an Eggman construction site.

I just don't know if it's Eggman for sure because another thing to mention is that the Sonic 3 Japanese profile for Knuckles states that he has friends and that he's shy towards women...suggesting there are other people on the island besides Knuckles.

On 7/28/2019 at 4:48 PM, Nestor said:

Eggman does seem to have a ludicrously fast construction capability; from multiple space stations, to the Egg Fleet, to Eggman Land, or his Interstellar Amusement Park (which involved terraforming multiple planetoids), Eggman has always seemed to churn out factories, bases and machines at an unfeasibly high rate.

One does wonder though why he would waste so many resources on an Amusement Park on an island no-one even knows exist - perhaps Eggman intended it to be Eggman Land once the Death Egg conquered the world?

If it IS his then that's definitely Ludicrous Speed.

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The participants in Ice Cap's balloon festival (Sonic Adventure) are probably the same as those who partake in Carnival Night (Sonic 3). I bet they're animal friends and flickies.

 

My headcanon is that Carnival Night inspired Eggman to have an amusement park obsession. We never saw a hint of Eggmanland before this.

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2 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

The participants in Ice Cap's balloon festival (Sonic Adventure) are probably the same as those who partake in Carnival Night (Sonic 3). I bet they're animal friends and flickies.

 

My headcanon is that Carnival Night inspired Eggman to have an amusement park obsession. We never saw a hint of Eggmanland before this.

The balloon festival in Ice Cap is another good point. There are definitely other people on the Angel Island. I would lean more towards them being Sonic-type anthros rather than animal friends, with the way they're portrayed they don't strike me as being able to build large cities or towns.

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2 hours ago, MainJP said:

The balloon festival in Ice Cap is another good point. There are definitely other people on the Angel Island. I would lean more towards them being Sonic-type anthros rather than animal friends, with the way they're portrayed they don't strike me as being able to build large cities or towns.

In early games and media, the two types were more or less inferred to be one and the same, with Sonic and company being larger for gameplay purposes and due to importance. This was de-emphasized over time, with Sonic Adventure sealing the deal by making the Sonic-types bigger and more anthro and the small animals less so.

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2 hours ago, MainJP said:

The balloon festival in Ice Cap is another good point. There are definitely other people on the Angel Island. I would lean more towards them being Sonic-type anthros rather than animal friends, with the way they're portrayed they don't strike me as being able to build large cities or towns.

Weren't the Mobini of Runners said to be living in some sort of village? 

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5 hours ago, MainJP said:

The balloon festival in Ice Cap is another good point. There are definitely other people on the Angel Island. I would lean more towards them being Sonic-type anthros rather than animal friends, with the way they're portrayed they don't strike me as being able to build large cities or towns.

Then riddle me this. Is it possible that any of the Knuckles Chaotix lived on Angel Island?

In Sonic the Fighters, Espio's stage was Mushroom Hill.

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16 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

Then riddle me this. Is it possible that any of the Knuckles Chaotix lived on Angel Island?

In Sonic the Fighters, Espio's stage was Mushroom Hill.

Yeah, I couldn't help but wonder that for him as well.

It also helps that he was apparently conceived as an alternate protagonist for the game before they gave Knuckles top billing.

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3 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

In early games and media, the two types were more or less inferred to be one and the same, with Sonic and company being larger for gameplay purposes and due to importance. This was de-emphasized over time, with Sonic Adventure sealing the deal by making the Sonic-types bigger and more anthro and the small animals less so.

Yeah, I understand.

But:

dEXgOd4.jpg

They clearly weren't the same even back then. Their traits differ too much.

Even with the Sonic Band:

HreyU5Z.jpgGD_Sonic1_GDC2018_Band.png

They weren't playable, but they were still the same anthro race as Sonic. (Mobian...whatever)

4 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Weren't the Mobini of Runners said to be living in some sort of village? 

What did Runners say about them?

1 hour ago, BaronGrackle said:

Then riddle me this. Is it possible that any of the Knuckles Chaotix lived on Angel Island?

In Sonic the Fighters, Espio's stage was Mushroom Hill.

Espio lives on Angel Island in the Archie comics IIRC. In Chaotix Espio does investigate Newtrogic High Zone to discover its relation to Angel Island with the statement that he's envious of Knuckles, which suggests he doesn't live there.

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25 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Yeah, I understand.

But:

dEXgOd4.jpg

.

Oh, that's such a tease. Where did that come from? 

25 minutes ago, MainJP said:

 

What did Runners say about them?

 

That's what I was asking.

I vaguely recall something from what I played back then. 

25 minutes ago, MainJP said:

 

Espio lives on Angel Island in the Archie comics IIRC. In Chaotix Espio does investigate Newtrogic High Zone to discover its relation to Angel Island with the statement that he's envious of Knuckles, which suggests he doesn't live there.

Wait, envious of Knuckles?

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41 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Oh, that's such a tease. Where did that come from? 

 

Where did what come from?

43 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

That's what I was asking.

 I vaguely recall something from what I played back then. 

 

Well then idk.

43 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

Wait, envious of Knuckles?

The original Japanese manual states he's envious of Knuckles.

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16 minutes ago, Guergy said:

Is the Sonic Bible still canon or has been completely disregarded? 

It was never canon to anything but fleetway, and kinda the Sonic movie.

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So, two questions about this concept art:

tumblr_oz23kiEJjJ1resubdo1_500.jpg

  1.  Where's Infinite?
  2. Is that orb above Zavok supposed to be the sun or what?
    1 minute ago, Cuz said:

    3. …. Is that orb Infinite?

     

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Infinite never really actively took part in that battle, he just kind of held back and watched. I don't think that's meant to be the Sun or Infinite, looks like some sort of projectile blast Zavok is about to throw, although I can't recall if the real Zavok ever had that kind of ability. But meh, "Phantom Ruby" explains it away. The Phantom Shadow seems to be doing a Chaos Spear version of the same attack.

Question of my own: Is Eggman’s Interstellar Amusement Park actually meant to be populated by visitors during the events of Sonic Colours? Even though I’m starting to believe so now, I never got that vibe playing through the game back when it came out. I had imagined that Sonic and Tails had kind of snuck on board to investigate before its grand opening or something. Sonic comments (in the English version) that “somebody was dumb enough to leave the keys” in the space elevator which implies it wasn’t meant to be in use at that point, but in the Japanese language version Eggman mentions that he’s only denying entry to evil people.

The park always felt really empty to me as we never actually see any other visitors in-person for the entire game. But I guess the hover vehicle traffic in the background of Tropical Resort and Eggman’s P.A messages seem to imply that the place is open for business. Hope everyone made it off before the giant black hole implosion!

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5 minutes ago, Gotta Go Rational said:

Infinite never really actively took part in that battle, he just kind of held back and watched. I don't think that's meant to be the Sun or Infinite, looks like some sort of projectile blast Zavok is about to throw, although I can't recall if the real Zavok ever had that kind of ability. But meh, "Phantom Ruby" explains it away. The Phantom Shadow seems to be doing a Chaos Spear version of the same attack.

Good point. 

Looking at the image again, I am noticing a number of things:

a. there are a couple of similar colored blasts zipping through the air,

b. you're right--one of those pink blasts is coming from Phantom Shadow, 

c. a Phantom Chaos in the background is charging similar energy on it's claw; this may be a reference to an attack he could do in at least one of his forms,

d. [Phantom?] Zavok's blast is shaped more like a ball of ki; he had the ability to fire blasts from his palm at Lava Mountain, but they were orange,

e. there is only one Zavok.

 

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This is a question I wish someone would ask the devs that worked on Sonic Adventure.

In Sonic Adventure there are 3 skipped level ID's: STG11, STG13 and STG14. 

https://tcrf.net/Sonic_Adventure_(Dreamcast)#Japanese_Level_List

Z61gaVq.png

If we look at the order of levels on the Japanese level list it perfectly matches the order of the levels in the internal ID order in 1ST_READ.BIN, which also includes the skipped level IDs.

DJFGMz0.jpg

 

That means that STG11 is Mushroom, STG13 is Jungle and STG14 is Desert.

Since Angel Island plays a sizable role in Sonic Adventure and Ice Cap Zone was remade for the game:

SA_IC1.png

What are the chances that "Jungle" was indeed Angel Island Zone, "Mushroom" was Mushroom Hill Zone and "Desert" was Sandopolis?

Angelisland.pngMushroomHillAct1.pngSandopolis.png

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It's possible, but SA already has jungle and desert areas, in the Mystic Ruins jungle and Sand Hill, so it could easily go either way. "Mushroom" is a bit more particular of a theme so I'd probably give that one better than even odds of being based on S&K's Mushroom Hill, though.

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On 8/11/2019 at 3:57 PM, Gotta Go Rational said:

Infinite never really actively took part in that battle, he just kind of held back and watched. I don't think that's meant to be the Sun or Infinite, looks like some sort of projectile blast Zavok is about to throw, although I can't recall if the real Zavok ever had that kind of ability. But meh, "Phantom Ruby" explains it away. The Phantom Shadow seems to be doing a Chaos Spear version of the same attack.

Question of my own: Is Eggman’s Interstellar Amusement Park actually meant to be populated by visitors during the events of Sonic Colours? Even though I’m starting to believe so now, I never got that vibe playing through the game back when it came out. I had imagined that Sonic and Tails had kind of snuck on board to investigate before its grand opening or something. Sonic comments (in the English version) that “somebody was dumb enough to leave the keys” in the space elevator which implies it wasn’t meant to be in use at that point, but in the Japanese language version Eggman mentions that he’s only denying entry to evil people.

The park always felt really empty to me as we never actually see any other visitors in-person for the entire game. But I guess the hover vehicle traffic in the background of Tropical Resort and Eggman’s P.A messages seem to imply that the place is open for business. Hope everyone made it off before the giant black hole implosion!

It was supposed to be the day before the actual opening. Probably why Eggman was still in the process of recording PA announcements. 

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

It's possible, but SA already has jungle and desert areas, in the Mystic Ruins jungle and Sand Hill, so it could easily go either way. "Mushroom" is a bit more particular of a theme so I'd probably give that one better than even odds of being based on S&K's Mushroom Hill, though.

Sand Hill was added fairly late for Tails' story, so it's possible what was made the desert went into it. 

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4 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Sand Hill was added fairly late for Tails' story, so it's possible what was made the desert went into it. 

Desert and Sand Hill (Sandboard) both being present raises some questions as I can't help but wonder if those were separate assets, but it's definitely possible.

Another interesting tidbit comes from the Autodemo prototype, where Hot Shelter itself is also a skipped ID and lacks an entry in the developer level select.

As far as action stages are concerned STG12 , along with STG11 have the most minuscule amount of data left in that version; Hot Shelter only has Amy's starting coordinates leftover but literally nothing else while STG11 has a leftover camera file: 7hLd2mW.png

The same compile date as the camera file for Practice/test stage (STG00). STG13 and 14 still lack any data at all.

What I want to know is when exactly these stages were scrapped. If we were to ever somehow find a proto compiled around the date you see above there's an incredibly likely chance all 3 scrapped levels could be there in some capacity kinda like how there's a leftover object file meant for the Tokyo International version of Twinkle Park Act 1 with a build date of September 9th, meaning that if we had a build of SA from around that date we would have access to that version of TP.

Spoiler

feUv6Bt.gif

I'm at least almost 100% certain that "Mushroom" was Mushroom Hill Zone since that's a pretty blatant theme.

Jungle and desert are a bit more unknown since yeah, there is a jungle area in the Mystic Ruins where we could have entered those stages, but since we have development screenshots of Sonic and Tails cruising around Angel Island, the role it plays in-story coupled with the jungle and desert levels in Sonic 3 & Knuckles gives me vague hints that a quite a few S3 levels were to be remade à la Ice Cap...maybe.

qABqj2X.png

 

 

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On 8/16/2019 at 2:21 PM, DabigRG said:

Sand Hill was added fairly late for Tails' story, so it's possible what was made the desert went into it. 

4 hours ago, MainJP said:

Desert and Sand Hill (Sandboard) both being present raises some questions as I can't help but wonder if those were separate assets, but it's definitely possible.

Now that I think about it, Sand Hill borrowing assets from the Desert level is probably more likely than I previously thought.

Supercoolsonic pointed out on Github awhile back when the Beta Windy Valley restoration mod was being worked on that the Chao Race map does reuse (albeit edited) textures from the original Windy Valley.

0711_2crs_g2420sea3_6alm_sgo03w_wv9

With that in mind Sand Hill could perhaps be reusing the art direction and perhaps even some geometry from Desert. That was probably the intention even if Desert had ended up in the finalized product for all we know.

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