Your Unanswered Sonic Questions

[Diogenes]

We've been "teased" about things coming back before (the werehog comes to mind) and Sega's made plenty of characters off limits from the comics for strange and unknowable reasons. This really doesn't mean anything.

[Red Hot Jack]

Just now, Diogenes said:

We've been "teased" about things coming back before (the werehog comes to mind) and Sega's made plenty of characters off limits from the comics for strange and unknowable reasons. This really doesn't mean anything.

Difference here, while both were features in major Sonic games, is that this particular character was better received than the Werehog or Chip, heavily despised, especially the Werehog for its gameplay. It's a different situation, more similar to Silver, the character was appreciated even though it came out of a disaster of a game, or Sticks who is pretty popular despite the Boom games sucking hard. 

By the way, we do really need more villains (and better ones), SEGA knows this so they either make new ones or keep some of those we have, if they keep Zavok, I don't see why not Infinite.

[Diogenes]

This still doesn't mean anything. To even call this teasing is grasping at straws. They merely haven't confirmed him dead/discarded because they understandably want to keep their options open.

[MainJP]

 

Quote

but I'd assume that's just because they're the most complex NPCs in the game; they're major players in the story, so they need more complex animations than the random townspeople and such, so they probably reused a bunch of code from the player characters.

This a bit of a oversimplified understanding of how they work as player characters. Tikal and Eggman both have slots in the character ID list as well as character identifiers or SET file suffixes.

 

Which are used to tell the game which characters object file is being loaded for the current level value.

The part about needing code from playable characters for more complex animations can be debunked because as MainMemory discovered , interestingly, ZERO unlike the E-series bosses who do  share a lot of their animations with Gamma during cutscenes and boss fights,  ZERO is also loaded as a character in cutscenes. The problem with him is that he doesn't  have input processing code or an entry in the character ID list.

This data all confirms that Eggman and Tikal were indeed intended to be playable rather than simply needing playable code for cutscene animations because if that were the case they wouldn't need a character ID, SET file suffices or controller input processing. They could've just been implemented the same way as ZERO.

11 hours ago, Diogenes said:

I'd guess probably not. I know they can be controlled via hacks, but I'd assume that's just because they're the most complex NPCs in the game; they're major players in the story, so they need more complex animations than the random townspeople and such, so they probably reused a bunch of code from the player characters.

While they do indeed have big roles in the story, the interesting thing is that both eventually become playable in the sequel. It would certainly make sense that they were considered at least in the very early stages.

What I would like to know is when would they have been playable? What could have been planned for them?

[DabigRG]

Here's something I just remembered: That purple gem thing on Dodon Pa's crown...didn't someone say something about the Phantom Ruby's sound effect being in TSR's files?

13 hours ago, Tangled Jack said:

Regarding Infinite's survival, apparently he may return in 2021 so… or at least that's what they are teasing.

They have?

3 hours ago, MainJP said:

 

This a bit of a oversimplified understanding of how they work as player characters. Tikal and Eggman both have slots in the character ID list as well as character identifiers or SET file suffixes.

 

Which are used to tell the game which characters object file is being loaded for the current level value.

The part about needing code from playable characters for more complex animations can be debunked because as MainMemory discovered , interestingly, ZERO unlike the E-series bosses who do  share a lot of their animations with Gamma during cutscenes and boss fights,  ZERO is also loaded as a character in cutscenes. The problem with him is that he doesn't  have input processing code or an entry in the character ID list.

This data all confirms that Eggman and Tikal were indeed intended to be playable rather than simply needing playable code for cutscene animations because if that were the case they wouldn't need a character ID, SET file suffices or controller input processing. They could've just been implemented the same way as ZERO.

While they do indeed have big roles in the story, the interesting thing is that both eventually become playable in the sequel. It would certainly make sense that they were considered at least in the very early stages.

What I would like to know is when would they have been playable? What could have been planned for them?

Huh. That is interesting and an astute observation.

And given that they went out of their way to solidify another main character by promoting Amy, I do kinda have to wonder.

11 hours ago, Tangled Jack said:

 

Besides, he has some potential, 

In what way(s)?

Quote

Sonic Battle Racers

What is that?

[MainJP]

On 8/30/2019 at 10:03 PM, DabigRG said:

Huh. That is interesting and an astute observation.

And given that they went out of their way to solidify another main character by promoting Amy, I do kinda have to wonder.

I typed the comment really quickly, so on the part about ZERO in case I wasn't clear with my wording the E-Series robots despite sharing animations with Gamma aren't programmed as characters in cutscenes; E-100 Alpha however is.

Due to him lacking  controller input processing trying to play as him reveals that ZERO can only stand in place and lacks programmed Actions as a result. Eggman and Tikal have all the basic actions like walking, 3 run gears, jumping and skidding (Eggman's skid animation was reused for a cutscene, all the main characters have their playable in-game  animations reused for unrelated reactions in cutscenes) . Basically stuff they don't need if they were never planned in the first place; they went out of their way to give them playable functions.

Pressing the Action button activates free movement mode for both characters, a leftover Action from the proto builds.

Also, Tikal has faster acceleration than Sonic. She's fast as hell like in SA2. I wonder whether they were story specific and were playable during certain events or would have just been playable through the whole game. Perhaps Tikal was originally supposed to like, I dunno...search for Chaos? Maybe they would have let us play as Eggman so we can fool around in his rooms on the Egg Carrier.

Without a mech I can't think of a whole lot they would have him do.

[DabigRG]

3 minutes ago, MainJP said:

I typed the comment really quickly, so on the part about ZERO in case I wasn't clear with my wording the E-Series robots despite sharing animations with Gamma aren't programmed as characters in cutscenes; E-100 Alpha however is.

Due to him lacking  controller input processing trying to play as him reveals a that ZERO can only stand in place and lacks programmed Actions as a result.

Huh. That's weird.

It could be a side effect of him floating off the ground normally and actually being in gameplay as a persistent obstacle/enemy.

2 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Eggman and Tikal have all the basic actions like walking, 3 run gears, jumping and skidding (Eggman's skid animation was reused for a cutscene, all the main characters have their playable in-game  animations reused for unrelated reactions in cutscenes) . Basically stuff they don't need if they were never planned in the first place, they went out of their way to give them playable functions.

Pressing the Action button activates free movement mode for both characters, a leftover Action from the proto builds.

Also, Tikal has faster acceleration than Sonic. She's fast as hell like in SA2. I wonder whether they were story specific and were playable during certain events or would have just been playable through the whole game. Perhaps Tikal was originally supposed to like, I dunno...search for Chaos? Maybe they would have let us play as Eggman so we can fool around in his rooms on the Egg Carrier.

Without a mech I can't think of a whole lot they would have him do.

I like these notions so much.

Get on it, Hypothetical Remake Team!

[MainJP]

On 7/27/2019 at 9:59 PM, MainJP said:

Why Red Mountain?

On 7/27/2019 at 10:35 PM, DabigRG said:

Because of the hammers and that lift thing. 

I wanted to come back to this; there's also gears and other machinery as well as literal jail cells that are of the same sort of design aesthetic as the traps.

Yeah I doubt Eggman added any of that. Why would he build a prison here?

It's also implied to be abandoned considering that all the prisoners are ghosts at this point.

[Ivo-goji]

The machinery in Red Mountain strongly resembles the machinery in Lava Reef, so I always assumed Red Mountain was set in the mouth of the volcano above Lava Reef.  SA is full of detailed call backs to S3&K like that.

[DabigRG]

So I went looking for the Team Eggman Interview since I don't remember seeing it and found this tweet announcing it with a single comment replying to it. Was there any truth to this?

https://twitter.com/TERRYANDYKYO/status/1133214856536924170

[Ivo-goji]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

So I went looking for the Team Eggman Interview since I don't remember seeing it and found this tweet announcing it with a single comment replying to it. Was there any truth to this?

https://twitter.com/TERRYANDYKYO/status/1133214856536924170

Yes.  Sonic JPNews was kind enough to translate it, along with the other interviews

https://sonicjpnews.blogspot.com/2019/05/ndws-direct-interview-with-tsr-teams-5.html?m=1

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Ivo-goji said:

Yes.  Sonic JPNews was kind enough to translate it, along with the other interviews

https://sonicjpnews.blogspot.com/2019/05/ndws-direct-interview-with-tsr-teams-5.html?m=1

Just to clarify since it apparently didn't render, the reply talks about how Sonic was a little more popular than Mario in Japan because of recent trends or something.

[Nintenboi]

How did Metal Sonic go from completely destroyed in Sonic CD to perfectly fine in Knuckles' Chaotix? It doesn't make sense.

 

 

[DabigRG]

Just now, Nintenboi said:

How did Metal Sonic go from completely destroyed in Sonic CD to perfectly fine in Knuckles' Chaotix? It doesn't make sense.

 

 

Was he supposed to be completely destroyed? It just looked like he slammed into the wall and dropped.

The answer is Sonic 4 Episode II, though.

[Diogenes]

He's a robot.

You just fix him.

[MainJP]

4 hours ago, Nintenboi said:

How did Metal Sonic go from completely destroyed in Sonic CD to perfectly fine in Knuckles' Chaotix? It doesn't make sense.

The Japanese manual tells you what happened.

And another thing to note; western fans tend to incorrectly refer to the red transformation as "Kai" which is incorrect.

The kanji for Kai “改” literally translates to “Revision”. It refers to this new version of Metal Sonic who was rebuilt after being destroyed in CD. The red form itself doesn’t have a name.

3 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Was he supposed to be completely destroyed? It just looked like he slammed into the wall and dropped.

The answer is Sonic 4 Episode II, though.

Sonic 4 is not the answer; that's the modern dimension.

[DabigRG]

9 minutes ago, MainJP said:

The Japanese manual tells you what happened.

And another thing to note; western fans tend to incorrectly refer to the red transformation as "Kai" which is incorrect.

The kanji for Kai “改” literally translates to “Revision”. It refers to this new version of Metal Sonic who was rebuilt after being destroyed in CD. The red form itself doesn’t have a name.

"The Dark Ring."

Interesting to see this, as it hasn't been shown before.

9 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Sonic 4 is not the answer; that's the modern dimension.

Same thing until Generations.

[MainJP]

11 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

"The Dark Ring."

Interesting to see this, as it hasn't been shown before.

It's literally in the game.

Every enemy is also powered by a miniature version that pops out when you destroy them.

11 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Same thing until Generations.

Sure. Still not the answer.

[DabigRG]

8 minutes ago, MainJP said:

It's literally in the game.

Every enemy is also powered by a miniature version that pops out when you destroy them.

Sure. Still not the answer.

I was actually referring to the Bio.

Well that and making fun of Metal's comparative edginess.

[MainJP]

5 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I was actually referring to the Bio.

Well that and making fun of Metal's comparative edginess.

Oh. Well since you haven't seen that before you can check out the manuals on Sonic Retro. 

http://info.sonicretro.org/Chaotix_manuals

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(16-bit)_manuals

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_(16-bit)_manuals

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_CD_manuals

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3_manuals

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_%26_Knuckles_manuals

Japanese manuals are canon and western manuals say Amy is Princess Sally or some other incorrect nonsense.

So Charmy's not only a sprinter but was apparently the first insect to surpass Mach 1 and is a self proclaimed "fastest insect". Soooo I guess him and Sonic have some things in common.

[Nintenboi]

On 9/21/2019 at 7:05 PM, DabigRG said:

Was he supposed to be completely destroyed? It just looked like he slammed into the wall and dropped.

The answer is Sonic 4 Episode II, though.

Oh, I haven't played Sonic 4 Ep. 2. Which from what I've heard about it is probably a good thing.

[DabigRG]

Was Helen from Sonic X originally intended to be capable of walking? I noticed that one of the eyecatches depicted her as standing, which is odd considering it comes from concept art that includes her actually in her wheelchair.

 

[MainJP]

3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Was Helen from Sonic X originally intended to be capable of walking? I noticed that one of the eyecatches depicted her as standing, which is odd considering it comes from concept art that includes her actually in her wheelchair.

 

Why are the images so small? I don't remember but do we know if she was like that from birth? Or was it from an accident?

 

[DabigRG]

7 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Why are the images so small? 

 

That's just how they opened from the News Network Gallery.

7 minutes ago, MainJP said:

I don't remember but do we know if she was like that from birth? Or was it from an accident?

 

I couldn't tell you.I really don't remember her condition even coming up in conversation. 

Although I haven't seen most of the show in years, never mind thought about her that much.

[MainJP]

1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

That's just how they opened from the News Network Gallery.

Just delete everything starting with /revision/

2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I couldn't tell you.I really don't remember her condition even coming up in conversation. 

Although I haven't seen most of the show in years, never mind thought about her that much.

So either she would have walked in a scrapped flashback or maybe she was going gain the ability to walk again?...somehow?