Your Unanswered Sonic Questions

[MainJP]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Well, we only saw them on Angel Island in the flashbacks to be fair.

That's false, the past Angel Island and temple area are literally referred to by the game's sound test as Mystic Ruin Past. 

The split is flat out internally inconsistent.

 

[Dr. Mechano]

4 minutes ago, MainJP said:

That's false, the past Angel Island and temple area are literally referred to by the game's sound test as Mystic Ruin Past. 

The split is flat out internally inconsistent.

 

Thanks for catching that; I thought the flashbacks were always just on Angel Island.

But come to think of it, the Lost World temple was totally the ziggurat from those flashbacks, I think, and it definitely wasn't on Angel Island.

Oh... Hm... Huh, then.

[Razule]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Well, I think a literal planet swinging by might get some global attention to be fair, even if nobody else went up there to check out what was going on.

In that case,  they have an interplanetary alliance, and news travels between both worlds.

 

[Dr. Mechano]

2 minutes ago, Razule said:

In that case,  they have an interplanetary alliance, and news travels between both worlds.

 

Little Planet itself has a humanoid angel statue, so I guess it must be from the human universe anyway.

[MainJP]

1 minute ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Little Planet itself has a humanoid angel statue, so I guess it must be from the human universe anyway.

Then why does Station Square have a poster of a Mobian model?

[Dr. Mechano]

Just now, MainJP said:

Then why does Station Square have a poster of a Mobian model?

Oh my gosh.

I never noticed that after all these years.

My mind is seriously blown right now.

[MainJP]

Just now, Dr. Mechano said:

Oh my gosh.

I never noticed that after all these years.

My mind is seriously blown right now.

She's on billboards and posters scattered all over Speed Highway.

[DabigRG]

The two worlds were originally one, but split apart at some point for unknown reasons. There is still a connection between the two that allows people to travel back and forth. 

The Knuckles Tribe and their enemies are examples of this crossover. 

33 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Then why does Station Square have a poster of a Mobian model?

 

33 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Oh my gosh.

I never noticed that after all these years.

My mind is seriously blown right now.

Probably because you can't make out shit at a glance. 

[Razule]

38 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Then why does Station Square have a poster of a Mobian model?

Because some Sonic's Worldians live there.

[MainJP]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

But come to think of it, the Lost World temple was totally the ziggurat from those flashbacks, I think, and it definitely wasn't on Angel Island.

Oh and by the way, yes; that's the same temple.

It's simply overgrown with plant-life in the present to the point that only the top half is visible.

This is the full temple.

I'm pretty sure Mystic Ruin and Angel Island are one and the same in the past.

[Ivo-goji]

The Adventure games are premised on the idea that there is one planet, Earth, where humans and talking animals have coexisted since the beginning of civilization.

 

[Guergy]

Does Sonic CD take place after Sonic 3 or before Sonic 3? 

[Multikaris]

On 10/1/2019 at 9:36 PM, Ivo-goji said:

The Adventure games are premised on the idea that there is one planet, Earth, where humans and talking animals have coexisted since the beginning of civilization.

 

The partition didn’t really start until Unleashed, as a reaction to 06’s reception. Humans are established to have a culture here more free of past games and animal influence. Their own ruins, built only by man, are shown, along with a few more normal animals than usual, as well as some fantastic creatures like the ibanga (broiled ibanga item). None of their merchandise depicts anthropes, and Eggman is roundly mocked and not feared. The only connection to the past is that the Chaos Emeralds are used to power Gaia Temples, and the presence of Eggmanland. 
 

Colors showcases the other side of the world, with a set of new planets. The Chaos Emeralds return to roughly their original role as bonus stage items, although now even more optional than ever before. The world is briefly seen again in Generations, which would also be the last glimpse of the human world of Unleashed as well as the old world in the main series, and the last time the Emeralds are relevant until Mania. Lost World managed to perfect the style of Sonic’s world, and added the Lost Hex in place of the Little Planet, and tried for a more balanced, more serious than its two predecessors, though still much less serious than the games before them, though negative fan reception and so-so initial sales force Sonic Team to push back on the zaniness for their next game. The Chaos Emeralds are a non-factor, leading to some of the personal drama. This leads to what we have now. Forces is an attempt to be middle ground, and even show the animal world in detail. Yet it still neglects last details like the Emeralds.

 

I feel like downloading the Emeralds in Forces is justified, as their inclusion in the main game would have opened a can of worms in the plot over their usage. 

[Ivo-goji]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

The partition didn’t really start until Unleashed, as a reaction to 06’s reception. Humans are established to have a culture here more free of past games and animal influence. Their own ruins, built only by man, are shown, along with a few more normal animals than usual, as well as some fantastic creatures like the ibanga (broiled ibanga item). None of their merchandise depicts anthropes, and Eggman is roundly mocked and not feared. The only connection to the past is that the Chaos Emeralds are used to power Gaia Temples, and the presence of Eggmanland. 

I've discussed this with other fans, how Unleashed feels like it takes place on a different Earth from every previous Sonic game, even though it's still "Earth" and not some nameless planet.  Nothing that appears in that game contradicts anything we've seen before though, the aesthetics are just different.  For the most part the setting follows the same logic as Sonic Adventure 2, with other countries based on real world locations just like the United Federation is based on the United States.  And of course Sonic, Tails, and Amy are shown living on Unleashed's Earth as comfortably as they lived in the world of Sonic Adventure, no hint that they are supposed to come from somewhere else.

Colors through Lost World avoided actually depicting the nameless planet in any detail by having all of the action occur elsewhere.  There's no strong reason to think Planet Wisp or the Lost Hex couldn't exist in the same universe as Adventure era Earth for instance.

And the world of Forces consists solely of environments lifted from past games.  Stages set in Green Hill or the one half of the game that occurs in Eggman bases are, of course, nothing new.  But what stands out is how similar the City stages are to the human inhabited cities of past games.  There's nothing that distinguishes Park Avenue or Sunset Hights as anthropomorphic animal constructed cities; for example they could have followed Sonic X in having the people on Sonic's world live in mushroom shaped houses, or taken a leaf from Sonic Boom with its villages of wooden huts, but the stages we got weren't that different visually from the cities seen in Unleashed.  Red Gate bridge is just the pseudo-Golden Gate Bridge from Radical Highway transplanted to a new location.

The only distinctive features between the two 'new' worlds is what they choose not to show. Since nothing at all is added to the narrative by the human/non-human segregation, previously established details are just pruned away.

[Multikaris]

On 10/7/2019 at 10:56 AM, Ivo-goji said:

I've discussed this with other fans, how Unleashed feels like it takes place on a different Earth from every previous Sonic game, even though it's still "Earth" and not some nameless planet.  Nothing that appears in that game contradicts anything we've seen before though, the aesthetics are just different.  For the most part the setting follows the same logic as Sonic Adventure 2, with other countries based on real world locations just like the United Federation is based on the United States.  And of course Sonic, Tails, and Amy are shown living on Unleashed's Earth as comfortably as they lived in the world of Sonic Adventure, no hint that they are supposed to come from somewhere else.

Colors through Lost World avoided actually depicting the nameless planet in any detail by having all of the action occur elsewhere.  There's no strong reason to think Planet Wisp or the Lost Hex couldn't exist in the same universe as Adventure era Earth for instance.

And the world of Forces consists solely of environments lifted from past games.  Stages set in Green Hill or the one half of the game that occurs in Eggman bases are, of course, nothing new.  But what stands out is how similar the City stages are to the human inhabited cities of past games.  There's nothing that distinguishes Park Avenue or Sunset Hights as anthropomorphic animal constructed cities; for example they could have followed Sonic X in having the people on Sonic's world live in mushroom shaped houses, or taken a leaf from Sonic Boom with its villages of wooden huts, but the stages we got weren't that different visually from the cities seen in Unleashed.  Red Gate bridge is just the pseudo-Golden Gate Bridge from Radical Highway transplanted to a new location.

The only distinctive features between the two 'new' worlds is what they choose not to show. Since nothing at all is added to the narrative by the human/non-human segregation, previously established details are just pruned away.

Or perhaps even a full-blown AOSTH wackyland, following Lost World’s footsteps (though humans and abstract creatures also lived there). Most other Western media, and even the Genesis games, didn’t display Mobian society as too different from human. Even the fauna of SLW’s Lost Hex doesn’t seem to correspond much to Forces’s giant realistic snake. The Mobini/small animals/normal animals scale is another point of contention. The classic games Mobini are seemingly more civilized than the small animals of the Dreamcast Era and the Sheep from SLW, as well as the normal animals in other games. And well, in Unleashed, there was a kid in Spagonia who pointed out that Sonic and Chip were unusual. 
 

And the Movie seems to be going for a more “realistic” version of Two Worlds, which was also partially seen in early UK material.

[DabigRG]

On 10/1/2019 at 10:08 PM, MainJP said:

Oh and by the way, yes; that's the same temple.

It's simply overgrown with plant-life in the present to the point that only the top half is visible.

This is the full temple.

I'm pretty sure Mystic Ruin and Angel Island are one and the same in the past.

You know, this brings up a different, somewhat ubiquitous question: Why did the Altar Emerald and the Echidna city get separated when they are seemingly within walking distance of each other?

5 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

 

Colors showcases the other side of the world, with a set of new planets. The Chaos Emeralds return to roughly their original role as bonus stage items, although now even more optional than ever before. 

The Chaos Emeralds are a non-factor, leading to some of the personal drama. This leads to what we have now. Forces is an attempt to be middle ground, and even show the animal world in detail. Yet it still neglects last details like the Emeralds.

 

I feel like downloading the Emeralds in Forces is justified, as their inclusion in the main game would have opened a can of worms in the plot over their usage. 

It's worth noting that Eggman dragged those planets across the galaxy and had his robots remodel them to suit his ruse.

Quote

Lost World managed to perfect the style of Sonic’s world, and tried for a more balanced, more serious than its two predecessors, though still much less serious than the games before them, though negative fan reception and so-so initial sales force Sonic Team to push back on the zaniness for their next game.

Funny you say that considering many games went out of their way to avoid actually doing much on Sonic's World after Unleashed. Forces was the first to explicitly do so, taking advantage of the Two Worlds deal in the process.

Quote

and added the Lost Hex in place of the Little Planet,

 Okay, may I ask: What is up with this train of thought? This isn't the first time I've heard this and I don't get it legitimately.

6 hours ago, Guergy said:

Does Sonic CD take place after Sonic 3 or before Sonic 3? 

Before..

[MainJP]

6 hours ago, Guergy said:

Does Sonic CD take place after Sonic 3 or before Sonic 3? 

Before.

1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

You know, this brings up a different, somewhat ubiquitous question: Why did the Altar Emerald and the Echidna city get separated when they are seemingly within walking distance of each other?

That's a good question. Um...I don't know, plot?

[DabigRG]

Why does Eggman and Bokkun returning to Sonic's World at the end of Season 2 contribute to fixing the time-space hiccup?

Also, were the Chao from Season 1 native to Chris's World?

3 hours ago, Ivo-goji said:

And the world of Forces consists solely of environments lifted from past games.  Stages set in Green Hill or the one half of the game that occurs in Eggman bases are, of course, nothing new.

I mean, Metropolitan Highway is fairly different from anything Eggman has made before. Not to mention things like Luminous Jungle.

Quote

  But what stands out is how similar the City stages are to the human inhabited cities of past games.  There's nothing that distinguishes Park Avenue or Sunset Hights as anthropomorphic animal constructed cities;

but the stages we got weren't that different visually from the cities seen in Unleashed.  Red Gate bridge is just the pseudo-Golden Gate Bridge from Radical Highway transplanted to a new location.

Probably because an average city is an average city. 

3 hours ago, Ivo-goji said:

for example they could have followed Sonic X in having the people on Sonic's world live in mushroom shaped houses,  

.The what now?

Quote

The only distinctive features between the two 'new' worlds is what they choose not to show. Since nothing at all is added to the narrative by the human/non-human segregation, previously established details are just pruned away.

Well that and how stylized things are.

[MainJP]

30 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

.The what now?

Some of them had a vaguely mushroom shaped house:

.

But not all of them are like that.

The other houses are just normal houses.

And Sonic planet's cities are just regular cities exactly like the one shown in the pilot/opening sequence.

[MainJP]

2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

.The what now?

Some of them had a vaguely mushroom shaped house:

.

But not all of them are like that.

The other houses are just normal houses.

And Sonic planet's cities are just regular cities exactly like the one shown in the pilot/opening sequence.

[DabigRG]

2 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Some of them had a vaguely mushroom shaped house:

.

But not all of them are like that.

The other houses are just normal houses.

And Sonic planet's cities are just regular cities exactly like the one shown in the pilot/opening sequence.

Woah, I never noticed that before.

Clucky, wtf

Also, "House of Cream's Mom"

[MainJP]

Did my post just show up twice?

1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

Also, "House of Cream's Mom"

Why does that sign say "Cream's Mom"? Vanilla's eyecatch says her name.

[DabigRG]

1 minute ago, MainJP said:

Did my post just show up twice?

Why does that sign say "Cream's Mom"? Vanilla's eyecatch says her name.

Oh yeah, that can happen sometime.

Ikr

[Ivo-goji]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

The classic games Mobini are seemingly more civilized than the small animals of the Dreamcast Era and the Sheep from SLW, as well as the normal animals in other games.

This is one of those things a lot of fans seem to take for granted that doesn't make sense to me.

I can't think of anything from Sonic 1-3 that implies the small animals have anything other than real world animal level intelligence.

Tails Adventure has one instance of a Flicky talking to Tails, which is only explicit in the manual, not the game itself.

In 3D Blast, despite being the center of the story, the Flickies are essentially treated as regular animals: they eat berries off trees and require Sonic to shepherd them around, not being smart enough to escape on their own after being freed from the badniks.

Ironically the number 1 instance of small animals displaying closer-to-human intelligence in a Sonic game are the Flickies from Sonic Adventure, who apparently keep lockets with photographs of themselves and appear to be able to communicate with Amy, although the player never hears them speak.

57 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

You know, this brings up a different, somewhat ubiquitous question: Why did the Altar Emerald and the Echidna city get separated when they are seemingly within walking distance of each other?

They are a lot farther away than they look.  I think Angel Island in the past is supposed to be roughly where it lands in the present, the characters just off-screen teleport passed the trolley tunnel.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Or perhaps even a full-blown AOSTH wackyland, following Lost World’s footsteps (though humans and abstract creatures also lived there).  the Sheep from SLW, as well as the normal animals in other games.

Except those were on the Lost Hex.

What humans?

2 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Even the fauna of SLW’s Lost Hex doesn’t seem to correspond much to Forces’s giant realistic snake. 

Oh doggonit, I forgot about that thing!

Although Frog Forest is probably on Sonic's World anyway, so nevermind.

18 minutes ago, Ivo-goji said:

This is one of those things a lot of fans seem to take for granted that doesn't make sense to me.

I can't think of anything from Sonic 1-3 that implies the small animals have anything other than real world animal level intelligence.

They were presumably the animals who bullied Tails and watched him invent the SpinDash.