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1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

The classic games Mobini are seemingly more civilized than the small animals of the Dreamcast Era and the Sheep from SLW, as well as the normal animals in other games.

This is one of those things a lot of fans seem to take for granted that doesn't make sense to me.

I can't think of anything from Sonic 1-3 that implies the small animals have anything other than real world animal level intelligence.

Tails Adventure has one instance of a Flicky talking to Tails, which is only explicit in the manual, not the game itself.

In 3D Blast, despite being the center of the story, the Flickies are essentially treated as regular animals: they eat berries off trees and require Sonic to shepherd them around, not being smart enough to escape on their own after being freed from the badniks.

Ironically the number 1 instance of small animals displaying closer-to-human intelligence in a Sonic game are the Flickies from Sonic Adventure, who apparently keep lockets with photographs of themselves and appear to be able to communicate with Amy, although the player never hears them speak.

57 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

You know, this brings up a different, somewhat ubiquitous question: Why did the Altar Emerald and the Echidna city get separated when they are seemingly within walking distance of each other?

They are a lot farther away than they look.  I think Angel Island in the past is supposed to be roughly where it lands in the present, the characters just off-screen teleport passed the trolley tunnel.

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2 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Or perhaps even a full-blown AOSTH wackyland, following Lost World’s footsteps (though humans and abstract creatures also lived there).  the Sheep from SLW, as well as the normal animals in other games.

Except those were on the Lost Hex.

What humans?

2 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Even the fauna of SLW’s Lost Hex doesn’t seem to correspond much to Forces’s giant realistic snake. 

Oh doggonit, I forgot about that thing!

Although Frog Forest is probably on Sonic's World anyway, so nevermind.

18 minutes ago, Ivo-goji said:

This is one of those things a lot of fans seem to take for granted that doesn't make sense to me.

I can't think of anything from Sonic 1-3 that implies the small animals have anything other than real world animal level intelligence.

They were presumably the animals who bullied Tails and watched him invent the SpinDash.

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On 10/7/2019 at 3:43 PM, DabigRG said:

Except those were on the Lost Hex.

What humans?

Oh doggonit, I forgot about that thing!

Although Frog Forest is probably on Sonic's World anyway, so nevermind.

They were presumably the animals who bullied Tails and watched him invent the SpinDash.

1. Yeah, and they had stuck out because the other animals were REALLY weird, so these slightly off sheep in hindsight only enhance the craziness. 
 

2. Does Lucas ring a bell? Or Miss Saccharine?  But they were there.

5. There’s also a lot of official art of them acting civilized. Plus a Flicky was nearly a racer in Drift 1. 

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1 minute ago, Miragnarok said:

1. Yeah, and th eh stuck out because the other animals were REALLY weird, so these slightly off sheep in hindsight only enhance the craziness. 
 

2. Does Lucas ring a bell? Or Miss Saccharine?  But they were there.

5. There’s also a lot of official art of them acting civilized. Plus a Flicky was nearly a racer in Drift 1. 

Mm...in hindsight, I suppose you have a point. Though those sheep noticeably rushed Sonic like pissed off rams half the time.

2 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

 

2. Does Lucas ring a bell? Or Miss Saccharine?  But they were there.

 

...Who? On the Lost Hex?

 

2 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

 

5. There’s also a lot of official art of them acting civilized. Plus a Flicky was nearly a racer in Drift 1. 

Probably as a shoutout to the game Flicky.

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45 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

They were presumably the animals who bullied Tails and watched him invent the SpinDash.

He didn't invent the Spin Dash. That's just more Western exclusive stuff that doesn't apply to the original Japanese canon.

10 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

5. There’s also a lot of official art of them acting civilized. Plus a Flicky was nearly a racer in Drift 1. 

What do you mean by "nearly a racer"?

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3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Mm...in hindsight, I suppose you have a point. Though those sheep noticeably rushed Sonic like pissed off rams half the time.

...Who? On the Lost Hex?

 

Probably as a shoutout to the game Flicky.

Actually, those humans were in AOSTH. 

3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Mm...in hindsight, I suppose you have a point. Though those sheep noticeably rushed Sonic like pissed off rams half the time.

...Who? On the Lost Hex?

 

Probably as a shoutout to the game Flicky.

Actually, those humans were in AOSTH. 

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Oh, so the guy Robotnik's crush married?

The humans in AoStH other than Robotnik are quite numerous actually:

First, we have Robotnik's extended family, obviously: Mama Robotnik, his cousin Warpnik, and his ancestors Robotnikus and Robotnikotep.

But then there were other humans outside of the Robotnik family: Professor von Schlemmer appeared to be a green-skinned human scientist and appeared in numerous episodes. There were also Lucinda and Lucas from "Best Hedgehog," and Katella the intergalactic huntress from "Zoobotnik," and a human wise old hermit from the same episode. Don't forget the notorious pirate Blackbeard himself in "Blackbot the Pirate." There was also Dr. Quark, but he seemed to be half-duck.

There were some other minor humans too, but those are the ones that immediately come to mind.

Really, it's weird; All supplementary Sonic media at the time had humans other than Robotnik. SatAM had Snively and Lazaar the wizard, Archie had a whole bunch of humans/"overlanders", Fleetway had the Super Marxio Bros., etc. Even the early games had Witchcart and there's a humanoid angel statue in Sonic CD.

Really, I'm not sure where the "Sonic used to not have humans" idea came from, considering they appeared in both the games and all spinoff media in the early days.

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12 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

The humans in AoStH other than Robotnik are quite numerous actually:

First, we have Robotnik's extended family, obviously: Mama Robotnik, his cousin Warpnik, and his ancestors Robotnikus and Robotnikotep.

But then there were other humans outside of the Robotnik family: Professor von Schlemmer appeared to be a green-skinned human scientist and appeared in numerous episodes. There were also Lucinda and Lucas from "Best Hedgehog," and Katella the intergalactic huntress from "Zoobotnik," and a human wise old hermit from the same episode. Don't forget the notorious pirate Blackbeard himself in "Blackbot the Pirate." There was also Dr. Quark, but he seemed to be half-duck.

There were some other minor humans too, but those are the ones that immediately come to mind.

Really, it's weird; All supplementary Sonic media at the time had humans other than Robotnik. SatAM had Snively and Lazaar the wizard, Archie had a whole bunch of humans/"overlanders", Fleetway had the Super Marxio Bros., etc. Even the early games had Witchcart and there's a humanoid angel statue in Sonic CD.

Really, I'm not sure where the "Sonic used to not have humans" idea came from, considering they appeared in both the games and all spinoff media in the early days.

Eh, I'm not sure I'd count Warpnik, Katella, Lazaar, or Witchcart, but I see what's goin on.

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4 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Your reason being?

I mean, Warpnik was Robotnik's cousin before being thrown into Fishy World or whatever, so I guess he technically counts.

However, the others are either magical beings of different origins or an alien.

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17 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Eh, I'm not sure I'd count Warpnik, Katella, Lazaar, or Witchcart, but I see what's goin on.

I mean, Warpnik is Robotnik's cousin and should therefore be human just like Robotnik is.

I guess you could make an argument that the other three - being wizards and an alien - might not count as human, but I'm not sure I'd agree. Humans wielding magic is pretty common in media. Princess Elise has a seemingly-magical ability, in that she has an energy shield that prevents Sonic from sinking in quicksand, for whatever that's worth.

Either way, they all have human designs at least.

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6 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

However, the others are either magical beings of different origins or an alien.

Still human in appearance. Witches are basically humans with magic.

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19 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

I guess you could make an argument that the other three - being wizards and an alien - might not count as human, but I'm not sure I'd agree. Humans wielding magic is pretty common in media. Princess Elise has a seemingly-magical ability, in that she has an energy shield that prevents Sonic from sinking in quicksand, for whatever that's worth.

I mean, she has a clear background established regarding that.

Quote

Either way, they all have human designs at least.

Uh....

image.jpeg.f56491faee3e4961f9a8795e35daf712.jpegimage.jpeg.deb75c537e81239bee2cf2b0fcd62933.jpeg

image.jpeg.6fd55267e195c2dfab7b18a5b336380f.jpegimage.jpeg.1ea9bb67f622c92a1bd02ffb04f7fc7b.jpeg

Sure...?

(No, but for real tho, it's funny that the most straightforwardly human of those four is the one from outer space)

 

image.jpeg

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Just now, DabigRG said:

I mean, she has a clear background established regarding that.

Uh....

image.jpeg.f56491faee3e4961f9a8795e35daf712.jpegimage.jpeg.deb75c537e81239bee2cf2b0fcd62933.jpeg

image.jpeg.6fd55267e195c2dfab7b18a5b336380f.jpegimage.jpeg.1ea9bb67f622c92a1bd02ffb04f7fc7b.jpeg

 

That last one's Wendy Naugus, Archie's version of Witchcart. Wendy Naugus was a troll and officially not human.

Tails Sky Patrol's Witchcart, meanwhile, looked more like this:

Witchcart-Tails-Skypatrol.png

And her in-game sprite:

WitchcartDarkcastle.png

I'd say she has more of a human appearance to me.

Lazaar just has a big pointy nose. I think he's recognizably human? Warpnik, admittedly, looks pretty weird - but he's related to Robotnik, so I guess he has to be human, right?

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5 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

image.jpeg.f56491faee3e4961f9a8795e35daf712.jpegimage.jpeg.deb75c537e81239bee2cf2b0fcd62933.jpeg

image.jpeg.6fd55267e195c2dfab7b18a5b336380f.jpegimage.jpeg.1ea9bb67f622c92a1bd02ffb04f7fc7b.jpeg

 

At least use Witchcarts SEGA design.

6GrbItQ.pnglatest?cb=20191002072336

I keep getting ninja'd.

3 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Warpnik, admittedly, looks pretty weird - but he's related to Robotnik, so I guess he has to be human, right?

It helps that Robotnik himself looks odd for a human what with his bulbous red nose, cone shaped head and black sclera.

Edited by MainJP

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

That last one's Wendy Naugus, Archie's version of Witchcart. Wendy Naugus was a troll and officially not human.

Tails Sky Patrol's Witchcart, meanwhile, looked more like this:

Witchcart-Tails-Skypatrol.png

And her in-game sprite:

WitchcartDarkcastle.png

I'd say she has more of a human appearance to me.

Lazaar just has a big pointy nose. I think he's recognizably human? Warpnik, admittedly, looks pretty weird - but he's related to Robotnik, so I guess he has to be human, right?

 

6 minutes ago, MainJP said:

At least use Witchcarts SEGA design.

6GrbItQ.pnglatest?cb=20191002072336

I keep getting ninja'd.

I could've sworn Lazaar had pointy ears, to say nothing of him presumably being of Sally's World rather than Robotnik's apparently.

As for Wendy, there was never much of her physical design in the games, so I used the Archie version since it's less halloween costume-ish.

Also, not Grimhelde transformed apparently.

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1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

 

I could've sworn Lazaar had pointy ears, to say nothing of him presumably being of Sally's World rather than Robotnik's apparently.

I may be a little rusty on my SatAM lore, but wasn't Mobius just Earth in the distant future according to Ben Hurst's plans for season 3?

Lazaar could just be a mondo old human owing to his magical abilities.

Though fine, I'll grant that SatAM is premised on the idea that humans are an aberration from the norm if nothing else. Non-Robotnik humans still showed up with some frequency throughout early Sonic media and even to some extent in the early games, is my main point; So the idea of them "not belonging" in the series always kinda seemed odd to me.

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

 

Lazaar could just be a mondo old human owing to his magical abilities.

Yeah, I suppose you're right--with a random magical computer crystal and an ominous robo-guardian.

8 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

I may be a little rusty on my SatAM lore, but wasn't Mobius just Earth in the distant future according to Ben Hurst's plans for season 3?

Though fine, I'll grant that SatAM is premised on the idea that humans are an aberration from the norm if nothing else.

That's what I heard--I don't know where that came from, but I guess it'd explain Robotnik and Snively a little more.

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7 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Does this confirm that Rouge has killed people before?

Rouge was an accomplice in the destruction of Prison Island, which resulted in at least one person dying.

As a government agent, she could've warned the people there to evacuate, but she just didn't. Even if we take a super optimistic estimate and assume the island was mostly automated or manned by robots, she totally left Flying Dog's human pilot for dead after their fight.

I'd say my unanswered Sonic question is why she didn't get in any trouble with her superiors for that, but considering how historically corrupt GUN is, I feel like her letting the island get destroyed "for the good of the mission" and it being swept under the rug isn't actually that surprising.

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