Your Unanswered Sonic Questions

[Splash the Otter]

1 hour ago, MainJP said:

Does this confirm that Rouge has killed people before?

She's killed 37 people.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Strong Guy said:

Speaking of Rouge, prior to 06 anyway was it ever explicitly stated she worked for GUN? From the beginning we know she’s a government agent and GUN is all we see so it’s what is assumed, but considering her lack of communication with any of GUN’s known members (unless she spoke to the president or something and I’m forgetting) and her blatant destruction of GUN robots and even Flying Dog without a care in the world, it has me wonder. 

Why is she a government agent anyway? She strikes me as more of a free spirit like Wario or the Babylon Rogues who would be better off just exploring and stealing treasure rather than tie herself down with a totally legal government job (especially considering her shadiness and thievery). Who knows maybe it’s the thrill of it that she likes.

Once she gives Eggman the newspaper showing that Tails has the last emerald and he leaves to plan his next move alongside Shadow, she contacts them on a walkie talkie about her current progress and makes sure they don't forget about her jewels before hanging up.

 

So the implication is that GUN struck a deal with her once Eggman breached Prison Island and released Shadow.

[Multikaris]

3 hours ago, MainJP said:

Does this confirm that Rouge has killed people before?

Could this even be the inspiration for Fleetway’s darker take? 

[Ivo-goji]

4 hours ago, Dr. Mechano said:

As a government agent, she could've warned the people there to evacuate, but she just didn't.

 

2 hours ago, Strong Guy said:

Speaking of Rouge, prior to 06 anyway was it ever explicitly stated she worked for GUN?

Prior to Shadow the Hedgehog, Rouge works for the government *instead of* GUN.

In SA2 GUN and the President are non-allies, and Rouge's mission is to discover what GUN has covered up about Project Shadow and deliver this information to the President.  As such, Rouge wasn't cooperating with GUN at all over the course of the game.  Hypothetically she could have still warned the people on Prison Island to evacuate, but it didn't effect her pay check, so she didn't care.  GUN 100% did not plan on their base exploding and they spend the entirety of the game trying to thwart Rouge in everything she does- even after she joins forces with the good guys to help stop the Space Colony collision (which the President ordered her to do).

Throughout Heroes and Sonic Battle it is continuously affirmed that Rouge works for the President, not GUN.

GUN didn't get on the same page as the President until the Black Arms invasion, out of absolute necessity- and even then, the contrast between the President's attitude and the GUN Commander's is striking.

2 hours ago, Strong Guy said:

Why is she a government agent anyway?

The President pays her in Chaos Emeralds.

[DabigRG]

19 minutes ago, Ivo-goji said:

 

Prior to Shadow the Hedgehog, Rouge works for the government *instead of* GUN.

In SA2 GUN and the President are non-allies, and Rouge's mission is to discover what GUN has covered up about Project Shadow and deliver this information to the President.  As such, Rouge wasn't cooperating with GUN at all over the course of the game.  Hypothetically she could have still warned the people on Prison Island to evacuate, but it didn't effect her pay check, so she didn't care.  GUN 100% did not plan on their base exploding and they spend the entirety of the game trying to thwart Rouge in everything she does- even after she joins forces with the good guys to help stop the Space Colony collision (which President ordered her to do).

Throughout Heroes and Sonic Battle it is continuously affirmed that Rouge works for the President, not GUN.

GUN didn't get on the same page as the President until the Black Arms invasion, out of absolute necessity- and even then, the contrast between the President's attitude and the GUN Commander's is striking.

Huh.

I didn't really think about that, but GUN is technically just the military.

[DabigRG]

Say, do you think Master Zik may have taught Knuckles as well somehow? 

[MainJP]

1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

Say, do you think Master Zik may have taught Knuckles as well somehow? 

No, why?

[DabigRG]

Just now, MainJP said:

No, why?

Because of Mario and Sonic in Tokyo. 

[MainJP]

2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Because of Mario and Sonic in Tokyo. 

Unless he's from Angel Island that has nothing to do with Knuckles.

[DabigRG]

12 hours ago, MainJP said:

Unless he's from Angel Island that has nothing to do with Knuckles.

Visit the Upcoming section. 

[MainJP]

On 10/12/2019 at 5:32 AM, DabigRG said:

Visit the Upcoming section. 

What do you mean? I don't have the demo.

[MainJP]

So there are these statues of knights all over Rusty Ruin Zone (a once-submerged remnant of an ancient culture) in Sonic 3D Blast.

I wonder if an event wiped them out or if they simply moved somewhere else.

[DabigRG]

On 10/13/2019 at 12:29 AM, MainJP said:

What do you mean? I don't have the demo.

There's another funfact/trivia setup in the game--one of them is about Zavok.

[Diogenes]

Okay. Do you maybe want to explain the relevance of this to the discussion at hand, instead of making a dozen more vague posts?

[DabigRG]

Why did Eggman leave Elise in a tomb after capturing her?

54 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Okay. Do you maybe want to explain the relevance of this to the discussion at hand, instead of making a dozen more vague posts?

Oh, this did go on much longer than it should've. 

Because he and Knuckles are clearly masters of the martial arts. 

[Dr. Mechano]

Would Eggman Nega have caused a time paradox if he'd succeeded in Sonic Rivals?

His plan in that game involved - among other things - capturing Eggman in a card forever, which (as Eggman's descendant) would have ultimately stopped Nega from ever being born (assuming, of course, that Eggman hasn't already had kids who'll continue the Robotnik line and ultimately lead to Nega being born).

I know causality can be a little wonky when time travel is involved, but I feel like going back in time and doing something that would probably stop your ancestor from procreating would just prevent you from being born and - ergo - prevent you from undoing your existence in the first place.

[DabigRG]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Would Eggman Nega have caused a time paradox if he'd succeeded in Sonic Rivals?

His plan in that game involved - among other things - capturing Eggman in a card forever, which (as Eggman's descendant) would have ultimately stopped Nega from ever being born (assuming, of course, that Eggman hasn't already had kids who'll continue the Robotnik line and ultimately lead to Nega being born).

I know causality can be a little wonky when time travel is involved, but I feel like going back in time and doing something that would probably stop your ancestor from procreating would just prevent you from being born and - ergo - prevent you from undoing your existence in the first place.

Yeah, probably. He was gonna change the state of the planet entirely, thus never allowing it to progress to the point where he stole the camera, snapped Onyx Island, and traveled back.

Of course, we're generally operating on DBZ timetravel here, so maybe there's some wiggle room.

[Ivo-goji]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Would Eggman Nega have caused a time paradox if he'd succeeded in Sonic Rivals?

His plan in that game involved - among other things - capturing Eggman in a card forever, which (as Eggman's descendant) would have ultimately stopped Nega from ever being born (assuming, of course, that Eggman hasn't already had kids who'll continue the Robotnik line and ultimately lead to Nega being born).

Well, Eggman is 50+ years old.  Probably around 62 if I had to name an exact age; I would think he's already had kids. It seems a lot more likely that he would have had children before he launched his world-conquering career than afterwards, when he's made himself infamous.

Of course, Nega was still changing history so much that if he succeeded, the motives he had for traveling back in time (Eggman ruining the Robotnik name) would be butterflied away.  The only way his plan would work is if he had Ripple-Effect Proof Memories.

[Dr. Mechano]

2 minutes ago, Ivo-goji said:

Well, Eggman is 50+ years old. 

That's possible, but I'm not sure if it's been confirmed.

While Gerald died 50+ years ago, and Eggman did look up to him as a child, it's also possible that he only learned about Gerald posthumously and admired him based on what he'd heard. The games keep listing his age as "unknown," which is weird since they've given practically every other character a canon age.

I personally do like to think he knew Gerald though.

[Ivo-goji]

To me it makes the most sense if Eggman were born before the ARK disaster took place.  GUN covered up the raid by claiming the Space Colony was evacuated because a biohazardous accident rendered it uninhabitable, using Gerald as a scapegoat for the deaths that occurred during their operation.  This would mean most people for most of Eggman's life believed his grandfather was a criminal whose experiments killed countless innocents.  If Eggman grew up viewing Gerald as a hero, then we would suppose his formative years were before the professor's name was associated with the ARK tragedy or Prison Island.

The symmetry of Eggman's conversation with Tails- an old scientist telling a young, aspiring genius of the great scientist he looked up to as a child- makes me think he was somewhere between Tails' age and Maria's age before the events of 50 years ago.  Not older than Maria (12) but probably not much younger either.

[MainJP]

7 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Why did Eggman leave Elise in a tomb after capturing her?

Quote

Oh, this did go on much longer than it should've. 

Because he and Knuckles are clearly masters of the martial arts. 

This?

Well, I mean...this was already posted in the Mario and Sonic thread. I thought you were saying there was something additional that suggested that Knuckles knew Zik prior to the events of Lost World or something along those lines.

Zik possibly teaching Knuckles martial arts simply because he's an old master makes no sense. You're also assuming Knuckles and Zik are the only martial arts masters in the world which flat out shouldn't logically be true; Espio and Rouge are martial arts masters and I'm certain none of them know who Zik is...Knuckles himself has clearly never encountered the old man otherwise this would've been stated or at least hinted at. 

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Dr. Mechano said:

That's possible, but I'm not sure if it's been confirmed.

While Gerald died 50+ years ago, and Eggman did look up to him as a child, it's also possible that he only learned about Gerald posthumously and admired him based on what he'd heard. The games keep listing his age as "unknown," which is weird since they've given practically every other character a canon age.

I personally do like to think he knew Gerald though.

Apparently, he was once listed internally as mid-to-late forties, particularly 49, but Sega backpedaled in favor of leaving it unknown.

10 minutes ago, MainJP said:

This?

Well, I mean...this was already posted in the Mario and Sonic thread. I thought you were saying there was something additional that suggested that Knuckles knew Zik prior to the events of Lost World or something along those lines.

Zik possibly teaching Knuckles martial arts simply because he's an old master makes no sense. You're also assuming Knuckles and Zik are the only martial arts masters in the world which flat out shouldn't logically be true; Espio and Rouge are martial arts masters and I'm certain none of them know who Zik is...Knuckles himself has clearly never encountered the old man otherwise this would've been stated or at least hinted at. 

No, it was a joke lampshading how both purple eyed red guys are described as expert martial artists, yet rely almost entirely on punches.

My apologies for the extraneous confusion.

[Ivo-goji]

I read this fanfic- written by Thrippa, I think- where the Master Emerald generates these constructs that train Knuckles in various fighting styles, implied to be the shades of previous guardians.  After Knuckles met Sonic and crew it started making doppelgangers of them for Knuckles to fight.  I always liked this idea because it sounds like something that would happen in a video game.

I've toyed with a similar idea, where Knuckles had the fighting experience and cultural knowledge of his deceased ancestors downloaded directly into his brain by the Master Emerald or another device on Angel Island immediately after he was born.

[MainJP]

19 minutes ago, Ivo-goji said:

I read this fanfic- written by Thrippa, I think- where the Master Emerald generates these constructs that train Knuckles in various fighting styles, implied to be the shades of previous guardians.  After Knuckles met Sonic and crew it started making doppelgangers of them for Knuckles to fight.  I always liked this idea because it sounds like something that would happen in a video game.

I've toyed with a similar idea, where Knuckles had the fighting experience and cultural knowledge of his deceased ancestors downloaded directly into his brain by the Master Emerald or another device on Angel Island immediately after he was born.

I really like these ideas but what are the odds, though, that Knuckles learned from people that live on the island? The Sonic 3 manual says that he was born and raised there, implying he had parents or a care taker. It also mentioned that he had friends and mentions the whole "shyness to women" tidbit.

Sonic Adventure proves that there are occupied villages with that balloon festival taking place in Ice Cap.

 

 

 

[Ivo-goji]

 In his opening monologue in Sonic Adventure he says he's been alone on the Floating Island as long as he can remember.

I always assumed the little mountain village in Ice Cap Zone's last segment was actually located somewhere else in the mountains around the Mystic Ruins, and Sonic and Tails somehow navigated there in between the ice cave and snowboarding segments.  The NPCs in Station Square mention that they go snowboarding somewhere not far from the city; they can't be talking about Angel Island since it just fell from the sky and people certainly aren't traveling there during the game.