Metroid: Other M

[SuperLink]

You actually AIMED in Metroid? Because in the 2-D games (NOT THE 3-D mind you0, you could literally just run and shoot straight forward for most of the levels.

I'd like to know how you beat any bosses like that. Aside from the bosses, the gameplay was always relatively easy, but for some bosses you needed very fast reflexes and timing, especially on harder modes.

Aiming automatically for those tough bosses would be such a fucking kick in the nuts to difficulty. Also if you stand still while shooting, does that mean you can't jump and shoot?

[Saint Nathan]

I'd like to know how you beat any bosses like that. Aside from the bosses, the gameplay was always relatively easy, but for some bosses you needed very fast reflexes and timing, especially on harder modes.

Aiming automatically for those tough bosses would be such a fucking kick in the nuts to difficulty. Also if you stand still while shooting, does that mean you can't jump and shoot?

Yes, because Ridley and Mother Brain involved ALOT more than spamming missiles.

Mmhmm.

Also the first boss essentially involves avoiding attacks and being helpless until it freezes, and then you use missiles, which involve stopping. So if it takes Fusion's bosses, "EERP NOPE YOU CAN ONLY USE MISSILES AND CHARGE SHOTS MEERRRP" then you'll have to sacrifice your agile movement and firing for a powerful missile and vulnerability. Sounds like they're making it difficult.

[Blacklightning]

Yes, because Ridley and Mother Brain involved ALOT more than spamming missiles.

Kraid would like a word.

[TimberWolf]

It is my eternal shame that the only Metroid game I have ever played was a ROM of Zero Mission, which I gave up after I got stuck in a fucking pit.

[Saint Nathan]

Kraid would like a word.

You mean the one where you don't just spam missiles, but have to JUMP to reach his eye to spam missiles? Yes, so very, very complicated. His only attack that works semi-well is when he shoots arms at you from his stomach, what. Other than that he's like the only boss that doesn't require constant missile spamming. Unless your in Zero Mission, I think you can grab a ledge and shoot at him from that but your super vulnerable.

[Blacklightning]

You mean the one where you don't just spam missiles, but have to JUMP to reach his eye to spam missiles?

So, what, we're gonna completely ignore the mouth shot now? The one that was actually required to do any real damage? That actually took a bit of skill that spamming alone couldn't accomplish. What a silly point to neglect. I suppose you're completely neglecting the very next boss after that too, which even despite having a much bigger mouth had a much smaller window for hitting it.

[Octarine]

Regardless, accuracy has never been a major focus of the series or anything; a couple of bosses that you actually need to sort of aim at don't change that too much. We barely know how the auto-aim works at all, though, never mind how it's used in boss fights. THREE SECONDS AAARGH.

[Saint Nathan]

We barely know how the auto-aim works at all, though, never mind how it's used in boss fights. THREE SECONDS AAARGH.

Lies, it's in Nintendo Power. Samus autoaims at any enemy in front of her. So if she's facing the general direction of the enemy, she'll shoot at it, but she won't shoot at any she's not facing (ones to her side, behind her, ect.)

Not much different from the 2-D games, except it's a little more forgiving, and a little more dynamic.

[Octarine]

Lies, it's in Nintendo Power. Samus autoaims at any enemy in front of her. So if she's facing the general direction of the enemy, she'll shoot at it, but she won't shoot at any she's not facing (ones to her side, behind her, ect.)

Not much different from the 2-D games, except it's a little more forgiving, and a little more dynamic.

Okay, so "barely know" was a bit of an exaggeration. I'm still not going to pass judgment on it until I've really seen it in action, though... trailer footage doesn't count. I don't think anyone's mentioned it at all in relation to boss fights, either, just "blah blah hit things in front of you".

[Saint Nathan]

Okay, so "barely know" was a bit of an exaggeration. I'm still not going to pass judgment on it until I've really seen it in action, though... trailer footage doesn't count. I don't think anyone's mentioned it at all in relation to boss fights, either, just "blah blah hit things in front of you".

Well, if what we know about the first boss is true, you might have people fighting with you for a few battles, and missiles (and thusly first person) would be needed most of the time.

[SuperLink]

That dragon boss from Fusion would like a word as well, I'd like to know how you beat that without decent aiming and good jumping reflexes.

And that spiderboss, I know you have to aim up all the time, but I'd rather aim up than do it automatically. Any skill required for combat is now as good as gone, and all that remains is mashing the attack button, mashing the dodge button (which many playtests said was possible) and entering first person mode, in which you stand still and fire slowly as hell, (and has always been the thing I hate the sound of most)

[Saint Nathan]

So, what, we're gonna completely ignore the mouth shot now? The one that was actually required to do any real damage? That actually took a bit of skill that spamming alone couldn't accomplish. What a silly point to neglect. I suppose you're completely neglecting the very next boss after that too, which even despite having a much bigger mouth had a much smaller window for hitting it.

Sorry, forgot about the mouth. But even so, how does that change anything? You hit it exactly the same as you would hit the eye, and you try to see how much damage you can throw in.

And then the next one would be Ridley, or Draygon (I think, was it Phantoon? I haven't played Super Metroid in AGES) and Ridley can be killed by missile spam, and Draygon can literally be killed within five seconds if you care to take a bit of damage, and even if you don't he's easy, and also susceptible to missile spam.

That dragon boss from Fusion would like a word as well, I'd like to know how you beat that without decent aiming and good jumping reflexes.

And that spiderboss, I know you have to aim up all the time, but I'd rather aim up than do it automatically.

Buh, which dragon boss? Ridley, or was it something else? I will admit that Fusion provided more creative battles to get to the boss' weakpoints, but after that, like all Metroid games, it was a rush to see how many missiles you could get to hit.

Also where do you get the idea that you'll be just spamming the fire button and just flipping around to kill something? have I not mentioned that it needs to be in front of you? You know, like being within a line of fire? If it's above Samus she won't automatically shoot it if she's not looking up somehow.

The range of fire isn't some sort of broad circle around Samus, think more like videogame character sight range in games like KH364D, stupidly short ranged with no ability to look to the side without turning. Except Samus might have a longer range of attack.

[SuperLink]

Buh, which dragon boss? Ridley, or was it something else? I will admit that Fusion provided more creative battles to get to the boss' weakpoints, but after that, like all Metroid games, it was a rush to see how many missiles you could get to hit.

It's this extremely fast dragon that you fight in the water sector, it gives you the speed boost.

Also where do you get the idea that you'll be just spamming the fire button and just flipping around to kill something? have I not mentioned that it needs to be in front of you? You know, like being within a line of fire? If it's above Samus she won't automatically shoot it if she's not looking up somehow.

The range of fire isn't some sort of broad circle around Samus, think more like videogame character sight range in games like KH364D, stupidly short ranged with no ability to look to the side without turning. Except Samus might have a longer range of attack.

So how do you look up then? You can't aim, only automatically.

What about bosses where certain parts hurt it more than others? Will you automatically lock on to its weak point? Or will there be no weak points in Other M, just "generally hitting the enemy on its body wherever 'cause it's not like you can actually aim for a weak spot as opposed to a strong spot"

Turning around every now and then doesn't qualify as "aiming".

Edited April 24, 2010 by SuperLink

[Saint Nathan]

It's this extremely fast dragon that you fight in the water sector, it gives you the speed boost.

So how do you look up then? You can't aim, only automatically.

What about bosses where certain parts hurt it more than others? Will you automatically lock on to its weak point? Or will there be no weak points in Other M, just "generally hitting the enemy on its body wherever 'cause it's not like you can actually aim for a weak spot as opposed to a strong spot"

Turning around every now and then doesn't qualify as "aiming".

So what would you like then? Taking away the really cool 3-D movement, and making Samus only be able to go forewards and backwards, then taking away the auto aim for enemies slightly to your side, and taking away the dodge? Because then we would just have a regular 2-D Metroid game.

You're taking the autoaim like it's this game breaking thing, when really, it's just a way to give the enemy more ways and angles to attack, while Samus seems to only have 8 angles of movement. And the first person is there to add the ability to look up, not to mention fire missiles.

The autoaim is only allowing more atmosphere to the game, allowing full movement around Samus by smaller enemies, without having to get JUST THE RIGHT ANGLE and fire, then hope to god you don't miss.

[SuperLink]

So what would you like then? Taking away the really cool 3-D movement, and making Samus only be able to go forewards and backwards, then taking away the auto aim for enemies slightly to your side, and taking away the dodge? Because then we would just have a regular 2-D Metroid game.

Add nunchuck analogue control, then the D-Pad could be used to aim up or down depending on where you face.

"Full" 3D movement with a D-Pad is far from "really cool" anyway.

You're taking the autoaim like it's this game breaking thing, when really, it's just a way to give the enemy more ways and angles to attack, while Samus seems to only have 8 angles of movement. And the first person is there to add the ability to look up, not to mention fire missiles.

The autoaim is only allowing more atmosphere to the game, allowing full movement around Samus by smaller enemies, without having to get JUST THE RIGHT ANGLE and fire, then hope to god you don't miss.

Mashing the shoot/dodge button and having to sometimes stop dead still just to shoot things above you? Samus sounds almost as handicapped as Megaman.

It's not going to break the game, but it's going to make the combat incredibly boring, repetitive, almost pointless. The only true combat will be in (standing still) first person mode, and those QTE sections. Really, if this game doesn't have a shitload of exploration, it's going to be the most shallow Metroid yet.

I dunno, I just think it could have been done far better than this. Sometimes turning around to auto-aim an enemy behind you doesn't sound so awesome combat wise.

[Saint Nathan]

Add nunchuck analogue control, then the D-Pad could be used to aim up or down depending on where you face.

"Full" 3D movement with a D-Pad is far from "really cool" anyway.

I didn't mean the movement, I mean the fact that it's essentially 2-D with the ability to move in 8 directions is a eat idea, it's not full by any means.

Your idea for D-Pad looking would make the game INCREDIBLY hard to play, and you obviously didn't think about how hard it would be simply to fire whist aiming. You would have to not only stand still, but press the D-pad in a certain direction whilst pressing the fire button (which would more than likely be A) and it would be extremely awkward.

Your expecting the aiming of a 3-D game in a 2-D game, and it wouldn't work.

Mashing the shoot/dodge button and having to sometimes stop dead still just to shoot things above you? Samus sounds almost as handicapped as Megaman.

This is almost exactly what you did in Zero Mission/Super Metroid/Fusion but you would have to aim DOWN sometimes and you ran straight forward instead of dodging. Fusion especially made the enemies easier to shoot without really aiming much.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Nathan Speed

[Diogenes]

So what would you like then?

Wiimote+nunchuck control, move with the stick, aim with the pointer, using autoaim only to determine the "depth" of the shot.

[SuperLink]

Your idea for D-Pad looking would make the game INCREDIBLY hard to play, and you obviously didn't think about how hard it would be simply to fire whist aiming. You would have to not only stand still, but press the D-pad in a certain direction whilst pressing the fire button (which would more than likely be A) and it would be extremely awkward.

There would probably be some slight auto-aiming involved, but not to the level where it requires absolutely 0 real effort as it likely will in this game.

This is almost exactly what you did in Zero Mission/Super Metroid/Fusion but you would have to aim DOWN sometimes and you ran straight forward instead of dodging. Fusion especially made the enemies easier to shoot without really aiming much.

Again I bring up bosses:

What about bosses where certain parts hurt it more than others? Will you automatically lock on to its weak point? Or will there be no weak points in Other M, just "generally hitting the enemy on its body wherever 'cause it's not like you can actually aim for a weak spot as opposed to a strong spot"

This wasn't a problem in Super or Fusion because you could manually aim.

Inb4 FPS, if you stood still while trying to beat the Spiderboss, Dragonboss or Ridley in Fusion, you'd be dead before you even got the chance to look at them.

[Saint Nathan]

Wiimote+nunchuck control, move with the stick, aim with the pointer, using autoaim only to determine the "depth" of the shot.

Wasn't really aimed at you. But, eh.

I'm not even sure how that would work. You want to point in the direction Samus should shoot, but allow her to move backwards while shooting forwards? That COULD work, except it would break the autoaim, allowing you to shoot enemies high above and far below you with horrible ease.

[SuperLink]

I'm not even sure how that would work. You want to point in the direction Samus should shoot, but allow her to move backwards while shooting forwards? That COULD work, except it would break the autoaim, allowing you to shoot enemies high above and far below you with horrible ease.

I could actually like that idea... obviously there would be some kind of limitation with how far she could shoot until she upgraded or w/e, but it would still require much more skill than the current method.

[Diogenes]

Wasn't really aimed at you. But, eh.

I know, but I agree with the basic thrust of SuperLink's argument, so I figured I'd throw in my own ideal control scheme.

I'm not even sure how that would work. You want to point in the direction Samus should shoot, but allow her to move backwards while shooting forwards? That COULD work, except it would break the autoaim, allowing you to shoot enemies high above and far below you with horrible ease.

How so? And if so, why is this necessarily a bad thing?

[Saint Nathan]

How so? And if so, why is this necessarily a bad thing?

Well if the depth was automatic, then turning would just about kill ALL of the enemies in that direction. You could have HUGE SWARMS of them in one direction and you could simply mash A and kill them all. With the current control scheme, they circle you and your aim is MOSTLY straight forward, but Samus autoaims a little for enemies JUST out of her range of fire.

The difference is one fires at multiple angles without aiming, the other simply helps you attack enemies without having to get them directly in front of you.

To be honest, I'd rather have a plain ol' 2-D Metroid with regular firing and such. But for what they are doing, they haven't gotten an idea that'll majorly break the game at all. Autoaim just gives the game's mostly 2-D movement some help for the 3-D movement of enemies.

[Diogenes]

Well if the depth was automatic, then turning would just about kill ALL of the enemies in that direction. You could have HUGE SWARMS of them in one direction and you could simply mash A and kill them all.

Only if they were lined up along the depth axis...all I'm proposing the auto aim do is effectively flatten the 3D-ish area into a 2D one for aiming purposes. It'd play a lot like if Super Metroid had 360-degree aiming, except it's still in 3D space, so you won't hit anything that isn't actually between Samus and the target.

[Saint Nathan]

Only if they were lined up along the depth axis...all I'm proposing the auto aim do is effectively flatten the 3D-ish area into a 2D one for aiming purposes.

AH, I thought you were saying the ENTIRE depth of the shot would be automatic.

But what you're describing is exactly how the autoaim works, except you can move on a 3-D plane, and it obviously compensates for that by adding some width to the autoaim's range.

[Diogenes]

AH, I thought you were saying the ENTIRE depth of the shot would be automatic.

I thought I was, too. I get the feeling one or both of us is misunderstanding the other...