Rooftop Run: Unleashed v.s. Generations

[495557939]

I think SG is more wonderful

SU Too long，In too many times, will feel very boring，

New edition gives a person a kind of wonderful feeling

SG的比较好，SU太长了，玩多了会哦感觉厌倦，新版本给人一种很活跃的感觉。

[Tani Coyote]

Love Generations' cover more. I like how it's got a softer tone in places (with a piano, I think?) and yet still has the energy and fast-paced feel of the original.

I also like how Spagonia's in the middle of some sort of festival it looks like, just for the fat man to come in and ruin it with a massive invasion. The music, I think, reflects the fun and ease with which Sonic liberates the place and shreds the Eggman forces.

Unleashed does get points for a longer play time, if much of it was just Press Boost. Say what one will about Unleashed, at least it actually took some time to complete.

[Dizcrybe]

Love Generations' cover more. I like how it's got a softer tone in places (with a piano, I think?) and yet still has the energy and fast-paced feel of the original.

I also like how Spagonia's in the middle of some sort of festival it looks like, just for the fat man to come in and ruin it with a massive invasion. The music, I think, reflects the fun and ease with which Sonic liberates the place and shreds the Eggman forces.

Unleashed does get points for a longer play time, if much of it was just Press Boost. Say what one will about Unleashed, at least it actually took some time to complete.

Of course, much of that time was spent either in Werehog stages or collecting arbitrary medals that you can't progress through the game without.

[Tani Coyote]

You can either have Fake Difficulty, a short game, or a long development time.

Fake difficulty is panned by fans.

Short games are panned by fans.

Development time, while a large number of folks will compromise, Sega will not. Sonic's a large part of their profits, and they NEED to have a new game every year.

Anyway, off-topic.

[Nepenthe]

You know, a lot of people have been deriding all of these pits in Rooftop Run Unleashed, and I can't remember a moment in that stage where it wasn't obvious where a pit was; e.g., you were always in the air, either through rails or the clock tower, when pits were around. Pray tell where are these numerous, unavoidable moments of cheap pits littered everywhere in the stage that you have no reasonable clue of reacting to that has devolved that specific level into "cheap difficulty?"

[Tani Coyote]

You know, a lot of people have been deriding all of these pits in Rooftop Run Unleashed, and I can't remember a moment in that stage where it wasn't obvious where a pit was; e.g., you were always in the air, either through rails or the clock tower, when pits were around. Pray tell where are these numerous, unavoidable moments of cheap pits littered everywhere in the stage that you have no reasonable clue of reacting to that has devolved that specific level into "cheap difficulty?"

I second this.

All the pits were fairly blatant to me... and fairly easy to avoid provided your reflexes were quick. Contrast to many older games, where the stage is floating in the sky basically, and one wrong homing attack will easily kill you.

[Dizcrybe]

I second this.

All the pits were fairly blatant to me... and fairly easy to avoid provided your reflexes were quick. Contrast to many older games, where the stage is floating in the sky basically, and one wrong homing attack will easily kill you.

Not so much for first-time players who are too busy boosting to notice the sudden pit on the rail section. Even if it's just one, it's a cheap death.

[Tani Coyote]

Not so much for first-time players who are too busy boosting to notice the sudden pit on the rail section. Even if it's just one, it's a cheap death.

I'm going to make a radical suggestion.

Don't spam the boost button. While folks like Yahtzee slam the day stages for being "so fast you can't see what's ahead of you," that's the players' own fault for taking advantage of the speed boost.

[Wraith]

I'm going to make a radical suggestion.

Don't spam the boost button. While folks like Yahtzee slam the day stages for being "so fast you can't see what's ahead of you," that's the players' own fault for taking advantage of the speed boost.

If they don't want players to take advantage of the speed boost, they should stop encouraging players to use it by throwing out obstacles you can only boost through and rows of robots that you can only kill without breaking the flow by boosting.

[Dizcrybe]

I'm going to make a radical suggestion.

Don't spam the boost button. While folks like Yahtzee slam the day stages for being "so fast you can't see what's ahead of you," that's the players' own fault for taking advantage of the speed boost.

Not really my fault when the game encourages you to slam on that X button for dear life (unless maybe you're in 2D).

[Uphex]

I'm going to make a radical suggestion.

Don't spam the boost button. While folks like Yahtzee slam the day stages for being "so fast you can't see what's ahead of you," that's the players' own fault for taking advantage of the speed boost.

The level design is so bad even if you didn't boost you would just be running down a boring hallway. Since the level design in unleashed encourages boost that isn't the best augment to use. However it would sorta work in generations.

[Nepenthe]

Not so much for first-time players who are too busy boosting to notice the sudden pit on the rail section. Even if it's just one, it's a cheap death.

So one pit makes the whole level cheap?

If they don't want players to take advantage of the speed boost, they should stop encouraging players to use it by throwing out obstacles you can only boost through and rows of robots that you can only kill without breaking the flow by boosting.

I wish people would stop acting as if the game presented no clear obstacles and indicators all throughout the game that discouraged boosting before you knew the level layout and instead just threw you to the wolves. If you've ever tripped, hit a wall, fell down into a small chasm, run into spikes, or failed that infinitely-looping section in Savannah Citadel your first try due to boosting mindlessly, congrats, you were actually being punished for boosting through a level you didn't know well before death became more common.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Wraith]

I wish people would stop acting as if the game presented no clear obstacles and indicators all throughout the game that discouraged boosting before you knew the level layout and instead just threw you to the wolves. If you've ever tripped, hit a wall, fell down into a small chasm, run into spikes, or failed that infinitely-looping section in Savannah Citadel your first try due to boosting mindlessly, congrats, you were actually being punished for boosting through a level you didn't know well before death became more common.

That's not how you design a fast moving game. Either way, the game shouldn't have been throwing shit at you in the first place. They shouldn't encourage you to boost, then expect people to NOT do it just because they threw a few spikes out at you. If they don't want people to rush through levels, how about, instead of just throwing things at you, they do what literally every other platformer does and throw out some indicators that you need to slow the fuck down?

[Nepenthe]

You honestly need a physical indicator to tell you not to boost mindlessly through a level you don't know when you've already been getting entangled with non-lethal shit beforehand in every single level before pits came into play?

[Wraith]

You honestly need a physical indicator to tell you not to boost mindlessly through a level you don't know when you've already been getting entangled with non-lethal shit beforehand in every single level before pits came into play?

again, when you try to slow down, the game actively encourages you to go fast. When you go fast, the game slaps you for it and tells you to slow down and watch where you're going.

The only real way to win is to memorize the stage.

[Tani Coyote]

The only real way to win is to memorize the stage.

Well I guess that's one way to encourage replayability.

[Wraith]

Well I guess that's one way to encourage replayability.

As if Medal Collecting wasn't enough.

[KHCast]

I prefer the Generations one over the Unleashed one. But both are amazing. While pacing is a issue in generations, more could be done in the levels. Unleashed had the spectacle "wow amazing!" Moments which I do appreciate. However I can't get myself to say the levels are better than the Generations levels. I would have liked the level to be longer, but I can't say they were dumb for shortening it and focusing on the platform element more considering that's what many said they wanted. Not to mention all the levels in generations bar PW were pretty short. Unleashed had a lot of fun moments with it's Rooftop Run, I just think even though Generations was basically summarizing the level and didn't wow me, it did a better job at being enjoyable and fun.(although really dissapointed about the lack of atmosphere. no humans!) Oh and the music for act 2 I like better as well. It was more bright and cheery, the piano and violin was amazing and it didn't sound as messy.

[Nepenthe]

again, when you try to slow down, the game actively encourages you to go fast. When you go fast, the game slaps you for it and tells you to slow down and watch where you're going.

The only real way to win is to memorize the stage.

How does the game actively encourage you to go fast when you are uncomfortable with the level layout, especially with the different types of obstacles I've named that work to discourage this behavior in beginning attempts? The only moments I can recall like this are any water running and Interceptor/Aero Chaser segments were it's absolutely mandatory for survival or automated, but hey, ironically these moments include blatant indicators- whether signs or anticipation in the enemies- of things coming up. But the game isn't forcing a hypothetical gun to your head through any design contrivances like a descending timer or something else that'd hurt you if you're not boosting.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Wraith]

How does the game actively encourage you to go fast when you are uncomfortable with the level layout, especially with the different types of obstacles I've named that work to discourage this behavior in beginning attempts? The only moments I can recall like this are any water running and Interceptor/Aero Chaser segments were it's absolutely mandatory for survival or automated, but hey, ironically these moments include blatant indicators- whether signs or anticipation in the enemies- of things coming up. But the game isn't forcing a hypothetical gun to your head through any design contrivances like a descending timer or something else that'd hurt you if you're not boosting.

Dashpads often rocket me forward. Rails often rocket me forward. Rainbow Rings often rocket me forward In order to take any obstacles like robots or breakable walls, I have to boost. Are you saying that to play the game properly, I have to actively fight against these things?

[Nepenthe]

No and I don't know why you'd insinuate that you'd need to be Driving Miss Daisy against unavoidable level gimmicks that don't actually throw you into obstacles anyway to play the game properly (and rails don't boost you forward either; there has to be a previous impetus of some sort for this to happen, either through your boosting or hitting a dash item of some sort). In fact, I don't know why you're insinuating that even having such level gimmicks means the game expects you to go forward 100% of the time regardless of level design and recurrent events, as if Unleashed is the first game in the series ever to use boosters of some sort which then completely fucked up the whole program in terms of how to progress, or that the expectation for you to survey your surroundings at least once in awhile somehow magically disappeared when this game came into existence.

[Wraith]

My point with the whole speed booster thing comes down to this: how the fuck am I supposed to see where I'm going at 300 miles per hour? Why do you think it's such an obvious solution to just look around when half the time you can't even said spike or pit or spike FOLLOWED by pit until you're right next to it and going way too fast to dodge it? Why does the game expect me to NOT boost by throwing spikes out instead of just doing what Colors and Generations do and generally encourage me not to boost?

[KHCast]

Generations encourages boosting though.... Colors, sure, it gets away with that, but Generations does, at a slower rate,what Unleashed did. Generations level design, while having platforming sections at times, still had that heavy emphasis on using the boost.

[Nepenthe]

My point with the whole speed booster thing comes down to this: how the fuck am I supposed to see where I'm going at 300 miles per hour? Why do you think it's such an obvious solution to just look around when half the time you can't even said spike or pit or spike FOLLOWED by pit until you're right next to it and going way too fast to dodge it? Why does the game expect me to NOT boost by throwing spikes out instead of just doing what Colors and Generations do and generally encourage me not to boost?

I've already asserted that the game is encouraging you not to boost without foreknowledge by punishing you with non-lethal objects that are more easily run into boosting versus not boosting (and frankly, there really aren't as many "out of nowhere" death moments as opponents make it out to be; barring my own memories as well as knowledge of the camera system and recurring patterns in level design, I've just opened up this topic to get some insight into just how amazingly cheap RR is in Unleashed by asking about how many pits there are, and I get only one response about one single pit that the person indicated is a bit difficult to fall into anyway; not exactly a riveting defense). As many times as I've fucked up in Unleashed, considerably rare is the moment I've been pissed about it because I know I'm usually the one at fault, and I didn't need any flashing indicator to tell me otherwise. I can learn by example.

To me, your argument is comparable to complaining that your own grenades in CoD kill you and you weren't told about it blatantly, which any reasonable person would assume is kind of dickish. But you kept blowing yourself up anyway and then blamed Treyarch for their failure to put a neon sign up on screen every time you took out a grenade, instead of just understanding that your own explosives kill you due to the fact that you were, in fact, killed with your own explosives. Several times actually. And this is regardless of the fact that tactical grenades provide an advantage in combat that encourages their use when in your possession.

[JezMM]

I just have to say I agree with Nepenthe generally on this. If you've crawled your way through hazard after hazard and made it through Windmill Isle, Savannah Citadel and Cool Edge and still haven't realised that boosting all the time is a dumb idea, then I don't really know what to say.

I guess they shoulda just introduced those "BOTTOMLESS PIT HERE" signs sooner.

Also the original point anyway was "Where are the bottomless pits in Rooftop Run?" Since the only major offender referred to so far is the last one... if you were boosting through the rail section (which Windmill Isle already taught you may have hazards or gaps in the rail), where there was nothing to hit into the Egg Fighters (you have already been taught you can't reach them from the earlier section)... again what more can the game do?

There was even that short cut-scene-ish moment to seperate the last "boost here!" section of the barrels chasing you and put you out of the mindset for a moment. In fact correct me if I'm wrong but the boost is forced off during said cut-sceneish moment.