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The Catch-22 of Sonic as a Theatrical Hero

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Well of course the quality of the movie as a whole is going to color people's perception of the things that happen in it, but if they're watching the movie and thinking Sonic is acting weird and OOC, that's going to hurt their opinion of the movie. If it didn't, being OOC wouldn't even be a concern in the first place. By setting up the changes to Sonic's character beforehand, people won't see it as OOC when he's like that in the movie, which means one less thing that could tank people's opinions of it. Video game movies are pretty risky business, so I think it'd be good to stack the deck in our favor as much as possible.

Well, people thought that Sonic was being somewhat OOC to his previously established characterization in Colors, yet it was more well-received anyway as an actual improvement. And if nothing else, people's responses here have reinforced the idea to me that acting OOC is not an inherently bad thing nor is being in-character inherently always good, depending upon the quality of the circumstances therein. And, if we're going to want to do the safest thing possible, we should act in accordance to what makes a good film first and foremost. So unless one disagrees with my notion and believes Sonic's current characterization in the games is actually well-suited for film (I wouldn't mind seeing an argument for this out of curiosity), I don't see why having a potentially boring lead man due to mere unsuitability to the medium would be in the film's best interest at all.

Yeah, let's leave the idea of a Reboot as a Godzilla Threshold. I think we can still keep going before that even becomes necessary.

Yes, let's ignore the potential reboot tangent and stay on topic..... angry.png

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This reminds me of a demotivator from DA, in the Anti-Archie group:

ian_flynn_mangling_sonic__s_character_by_foxtrax-d5090p6.jpg

In short, Sonic actually considering the prospect of defeat is somehow out of character,and "shitty" writing. As much as I love Sonic's never say die attitude, it really leaves more to be desired as a character trait.

I don't really think the problem is Sonic's "Determinator" traits in themselves, but how they're presented. Sonic's impulsiveness and stubbornness are never shown as being in the wrong, or never hinder Sonic at all. He's always right, and always comes out on top even when the odds are stacked against him, and really it becomes boring because we know he's going to win. If Sonic is to truly be a compelling character, you need to take his most virtuous traits and start deconstructing them, by doing that you tear down Sonic's character and he becomes a lot more relatable as a result.

I don't really think it's "Out of Character" for Sonic to consider the aspect of defeat, especially if it's in the context of his own characterization. I mean for anybody who reads One Piece probably knows where I'm coming from here. Everyone knows Luffy, like Sonic, is someone who will NEVER give up the fight ,and fight to the bitter end to save his friends and that worked out for him for a long time. But then came the Maineford arc, and due to spoilers I won't reveal much, but in the end determination just wasn't enough and Luffy ended up losing the very thing he was fighting for, compounded with the fact that he had the friends he tried so hard to protect separated from, it all cultivates in:

Claiming how weak he is

I mean nobody wants to see the hero at his lowest point, but that's exactly why it makes for such good drama. People need to get the idea that Sonic isn't capable of negative thought, and faulting in judgment otherwise he's just going to remain as static as he's always been.

Hey, that's my poster! Cool!

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"What would Sonic do?" Indeed, Sonic is Jesus which makes for a boring film, at least if it's going to star him.

Even Jesus had emotions and a low point. He got angry at people for using the temple as a shop, cried over the death of a friend, felt despair about his inevitable death, so on, so forth.

I look at Sonic and see an idea. Not a person in any sense. He is Heroic Determination, and that's all there seems to be to him. Not anger, not sadness, not fear, not even annoyance. He's just a force of nature, and it's rather hard to get attached to weather.

I suppose a good way to fix this is merely to deconstruct him. Can determination be pushed too far? Can it blind people? How do others respond to such boundless cheer and energy? Does Sonic have a breaking point?

I'm not asking that Sonic lose the game, I merely ask for him to lose his temper. Something that I can point to and prove that he has feelings beyond the ideal.

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Archie Eggman had the right idea. He understood that some cosmic force seems to always work in Sonic's favor, and so he instead focuses on hurting Sonic's friends instead. To a much greater deal of success.

Regardless of continuity, it's also the one thing that breaks his resolve. Regardless of whether he's happy go lucky game Sonic or apathetic douchebag Fleetway Sonic, both can be struck at their core if you harm their friends.

Now, as for being able to kill off a character in a movie, well, have fun with that. The death would have to be a Disney one, essentially. Sega's meddling would prevent a death even if it was non-canon to the games.

To me, this just highlights probably the best thing about the StC continuity: even if he's a complete jerk, they actually made Sonic more believable as a character. A shame his development was cut short by the cancellation, right after he'd finally learned arrogance was a good way to get his friends killed.

Edited by Ogilvie Maurice Hedgehog

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The reason I made that poster to begin with was because I've always felt (Don't take this as fact, this is what I think) that a good part of Sonic's character is that it never changes. I was angry with that moment in the comic because instead of showing Sonic as this tough-as-nails good guy that will never give in no matter what the odds - which, in fact, he IS - they, and by "they" I mean the escaped mental patient shoveling this crap out wanted to show Sonic crumbling under the pressure.

Yes. I know. It's how a normal person would react. But the thing is, SONIC IS NOT NORMAL! His mannerisms, his actions, his powers, and his indomitable will are all based in the wildest of fantasies! So stop trying to make the characters act "edgy" and "dark". I'm not saying that the series should be all Teletubbies-kiddified. I'm saying that getting the characters to act "realistically" is joltingly inconsistent to their personalities, as well as prior events.

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I think Sonic does in fact have a weakness that has not really been tapped into before. It's a bit cliche and Gary-Stu-ish, but as of right now it's the best exploit we've got:

If anything were to happen to Sonic's friends, would he in effect lose what he's fighting for?

Here's my train of thought with this one: Sonic and Tails are best bros. That's not up for debate, as far as I'm concerned, but there are moments in a few of the games where it seems like Sonic disregards Tails' contributions. In Sonic Heroes, at the end of Team Sonic's story, Knuckles says "man, talk about cutting it close," after the Egg Fleet is destroyed, where Sonic quips, "eh, not really." After which Knuckles reminds him that without him and Tails' help, he wouldn't have even gotten that far. In Sonic Colors, near the end of the game, we have the scene where Sonic says, "I didn't see you fight any robots!" where Tails replies smartly about how he wouldn't have even known what was going on if Tails hadn't built a translator for him.

I get the feeling that while Sonic does value his friends, he doesn't always have it at the front of his mind, being the cocky little guy he is.

You could have a scenario in a movie (or even a game) where Sonic's recklessness manages to get Tails injured or even supposedly killed. Perhaps he doesn't listen to Tails' advice during a battle and his cockiness gets Tails into trouble. You could go about this idea several ways, but the concept is to get Sonic to realize how important his friends are to him, and if anything were to happen to them, he would come across a feeling of loss to the point to where he doesn't feel like it's worth it to continue if his best buddy isn't there with him. Now of course, you can't kill Tails off. You can only put a supposed death in there to bring about the appropriate reaction on Sonic's part, but this idea could still work.

Besides, it'd be epic to have a climax where Sonic is falling down from a high altitude expecting to meet his doom, only to have Tails miraculously fly by in the Tornado to give him a lift to finish the fight. It could make for a very emotional reunion.

EDIT:

Archie Eggman had the right idea. He understood that some cosmic force seems to always work in Sonic's favor, and so he instead focuses on hurting Sonic's friends instead. To a much greater deal of success.

...

A shame his development was cut short by the cancellation, right after he'd finally learned arrogance was a good way to get his friends killed.

I'm too slooowwww~

Edited by Indigo Rush

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What about emotionally challenged like in... Unleashed in that cutscene where Amy hugs him and he feels down when she doesn't recognise him?

If this kinda identity crisis problem happens a lot, he could give up? Right?

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The reason I made that poster to begin with was because I've always felt (Don't take this as fact, this is what I think) that a good part of Sonic's character is that it never changes. I was angry with that moment in the comic because instead of showing Sonic as this tough-as-nails good guy that will never give in no matter what the odds - which, in fact, he IS - they, and by "they" I mean the escaped mental patient shoveling this crap out wanted to show Sonic crumbling under the pressure.

Yes. I know. It's how a normal person would react. But the thing is, SONIC IS NOT NORMAL! His mannerisms, his actions, his powers, and his indomitable will are all based in the wildest of fantasies! So stop trying to make the characters act "edgy" and "dark". I'm not saying that the series should be all Teletubbies-kiddified. I'm saying that getting the characters to act "realistically" is joltingly inconsistent to their personalities, as well as prior events.

I just find it amusing that people are having more of an issue with him very briefly considering the idea of giving up before immediately being snapped back to reality then him crying like a baby or acting like a complete douchenozzle to his friends like in the past history of the book.

If Sonic had given up right there and then and just acted like that for the rest of the book, then I could maybe agree somewhat, but he didn't. Having a perfect character in a comic book (and by extension a movie) is just flat writing, Sonic can act that way in the video games because it's a more suitable medium. But for other iterations, I don't see what is so wrong with the character displaying some faults or doubts, it all helps to make the character more relatable and more interesting in the long run.

Edited by TheScroogenator

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Even Jesus had emotions and a low point. He got angry at people for using the temple as a shop, cried over the death of a friend, felt despair about his inevitable death, so on, so forth.

I look at Sonic and see an idea. Not a person in any sense. He is Heroic Determination, and that's all there seems to be to him. Not anger, not sadness, not fear, not even annoyance. He's just a force of nature, and it's rather hard to get attached to weather.

I suppose a good way to fix this is merely to deconstruct him. Can determination be pushed too far? Can it blind people? How do others respond to such boundless cheer and energy? Does Sonic have a breaking point?

I'm not asking that Sonic lose the game, I merely ask for him to lose his temper. Something that I can point to and prove that he has feelings beyond the ideal.

Even I wouldn't go so far as to say Sonic doesn't have non-idealistic feelings whatsoever. In the games, we've seen him get angry, we've seen him get frustrated at the turn of things, we've seen him embarrassed from being caught showing a bit too much hubris, we've seen him as a cocky asshole which has gotten him into trouble, we've seen him fuck up a rescue mission. He has a pretty good characterization and personality, and some moments where he's not been entirely on-point, but ultimately what Sonic lacks is an actual arc.

Yes. I know. It's how a normal person would react. But the thing is, SONIC IS NOT NORMAL! His mannerisms, his actions, his powers, and his indomitable will are all based in the wildest of fantasies! So stop trying to make the characters act "edgy" and "dark". I'm not saying that the series should be all Teletubbies-kiddified. I'm saying that getting the characters to act "realistically" is joltingly inconsistent to their personalities, as well as prior events.

Jeez, no one here is trying to make Sonic out to be "dark" and "edgy." There is nothing dark and edgy about realism, nor is there anything dark and edgy about losing hope, unless you think Disney films are now some hardcore shit because Simba was sad. Characters of all shapes, sizes, abilities and ideologies can have doubt. It's what makes them relatable and human, and ultimately more entertaining as a result. There's nothing really wrong with Sonic's characterization in the games, but it doesn't translate as well into any other medium like film where storytelling is universally considered of utmost importance for most works and he's the main protagonist, because his lack of doubt completely eschews a necessary component of classic film-making.

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The reason I made that poster to begin with was because I've always felt (Don't take this as fact, this is what I think) that a good part of Sonic's character is that it never changes. I was angry with that moment in the comic because instead of showing Sonic as this tough-as-nails good guy that will never give in no matter what the odds - which, in fact, he IS - they, and by "they" I mean the escaped mental patient shoveling this crap out wanted to show Sonic crumbling under the pressure.

Yes. I know. It's how a normal person would react. But the thing is, SONIC IS NOT NORMAL! His mannerisms, his actions, his powers, and his indomitable will are all based in the wildest of fantasies! So stop trying to make the characters act "edgy" and "dark". I'm not saying that the series should be all Teletubbies-kiddified. I'm saying that getting the characters to act "realistically" is joltingly inconsistent to their personalities, as well as prior events.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, this IS the exact reason Sonic is so boring. I understand is not normal, but not being normal isn't an interesting character trait nor does it make for a compelling character. Here's the thing, in games like Colors & Generations where story is treated as an afterthought, then ok I can take Sonic as this never say die smarmy cocky bastard, but in mediums like Comics and movies that type of characterization doesn't work, why? Because the conflict is more emphasized, how is anyone supposed to care about the conflict if the hero treats it as a game because he knows he's going to win in the end?

Nobody is saying Sonic needs to be edgy or dark, but for his character to actually be able to develop and learn from his experiences. show some actual fault in his character, test the limits of his personality and just how much he can take. It's not even a permanent change, just a change to show that Sonic has fallibility in his personality, and for him to stop being treated like he's Jesus. I mean god, Pixar films do this and nobody complains, but why is it that suddenly Sonic is such a taboo subject.

Edited by Ragna Claus

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Yes. I know. It's how a normal person would react. But the thing is, SONIC IS NOT NORMAL! His mannerisms, his actions, his powers, and his indomitable will are all based in the wildest of fantasies! So stop trying to make the characters act "edgy" and "dark". I'm not saying that the series should be all Teletubbies-kiddified. I'm saying that getting the characters to act "realistically" is joltingly inconsistent to their personalities, as well as prior events.

Fair enough, but if this is the case, what's the point? In telling a story, I mean.

The whole thing about we being able to feel empathy with Sonic is that, while we are playing, we are Sonic. His progression in the game is our progression in the game and, in this scenario, it'd be for the best if we were able to connect with what's going on, so that the game can imprint its depth on us.

If Sonic looks invincible and insufferable, so we'll be - but we don't feel anything positive from it. Robotnik looks like less of a threat to us. It's not so much about Sonic feeling angry towards Eggman - what about us, the players? What's the point of playing and going through a myriad of cutscenes if, in the end, we'll just be reassured that we were going to win anyway? If Sonic isn't defeated, it means we aren't defeated.

A better characterization for Sonic is crucial so that we have a better experience. Nothing compliments victory more than a previous defeat, so if we are able to feel that, the game will have a general bigger appeal and impact on players. As is, the game can have as many cutscenes as there can be, but it'll feel like a collection of unrelated levels. Not only the characters in-game must react to the events of the story (so, Eggman, your archenemy has been stripped of his ultimate powers and turned into a werewolf. And, yet, "you got a new haircut?" is the best you have to say? How thrilling.), but we must be able to react, too. And, for us to react, Sonic needs to react.

Sonic can act that way in the video games because it's a more suitable medium

So, my point is - he can't. Or, well, alright, he can, but it's awfully wasted potential and it's still flat writing. Relatable characters are even more relatable in videogames because of the interaction and whatnot, so why dismiss the opportunity?

Edited by Palas

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Yes. I know. It's how a normal person would react. But the thing is, SONIC IS NOT NORMAL! His mannerisms, his actions, his powers, and his indomitable will are all based in the wildest of fantasies! So stop trying to make the characters act "edgy" and "dark". I'm not saying that the series should be all Teletubbies-kiddified. I'm saying that getting the characters to act "realistically" is joltingly inconsistent to their personalities, as well as prior events.

If you think acting realsitically to a situation is edgy and dark, then I don't think you have a good understanding of characterization to begin with. Superman isn't normal, and yet he feels happiness, sadness, anger, and grief as realistically as a normal person would.

Need I go on with other characters who aren't normal? Spider-man? Wolverine? Even better: Naruto? Ichigo? Etc etc.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

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So, my point is - he can't. Or, well, alright, he can, but it's awfully wasted potential and it's still flat writing. Relatable characters are even more relatable in videogames because of the interaction and whatnot, so why dismiss the opportunity?

Im not, I'm just saying that Sonic's current personality is just much better in a video game than it would be in a movie or comic.

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I've had PM conversation with DC111 regarding this in the past and we agree that not enough is done to exploit Sonic's stated 'downsides'. That's not exactly a problem with Sonic, that's a problem with the writing.

Instruction manual profiles seem to love putting across that he's short tempered. This personality trait is rarely seen.

His SONIC CHANNEL profile even states that he is "Selfishly fond of freedom". Aside from Chronicles making this a point of contention (whose writing has no semblance of subtle reactions in dialogue trees and which is inconsistent across the board), his double standard of a lifestyle is practically never questioned.

He goes on adventures without regard to what those close to him think and that's not exactly how friendships work. There's no indication in the games that the characters are particularly close-knit except for Sonic and Tails.

His enormous issues with water and the fact that it is in all likelihood his biggest weakness isn't exploited enough in cutscenes if ever.

Highly impulsive. He even attacked Eggman whilst he was holding Amy hostage without regard to her safety. Yeah she pulls him over the coals for it but this tendency for impulsiveness is again, not exploited enough.

Sonic's shown quite a few drawbacks that are fully open to be elaborated-upon further.

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I've had PM conversation with DC111 regarding this in the past and we agree that not enough is done to exploit Sonic's stated 'downsides'. That's not exactly a problem with Sonic, that's a problem with the writing.

Instruction manual profiles seem to love putting across that he's short tempered. This personality trait is rarely seen.

His SONIC CHANNEL profile even states that he is "Selfishly fond of freedom". Aside from Chronicles making this a point of contention (whose writing has no semblance of subtle reactions in dialogue trees and which is inconsistent across the board), his double standard of a lifestyle is practically never questioned.

He goes on adventures without regard to what those close to him think and that's not exactly how friendships work. There's no indication in the games that the characters are particularly close-knit except for Sonic and Tails.

His enormous issues with water and the fact that it is in all likelihood his biggest weakness isn't exploited enough in cutscenes if ever.

Highly impulsive. He even attacked Eggman whilst he was holding Amy hostage without regard to her safety. Yeah she pulls him over the coals for it but this tendency for impulsiveness is again, not exploited enough.

Sonic's shown quite a few drawbacks that are fully open to be elaborated-upon further.

That's true. Nothing will come of making Sonic the next Hitler if the writing doesn't take his traits into account and make the story benefit from them. For example, Sonic's fear of water will not be much of a big deal if it doesn't bring consequences - or, more specifically, if it doesn't turn into an advantage to the villain.

Balancing the scores is the key.

Sonic always seems to be able to exploit Eggman's inflated ego, but when does Eggman take advantage of Sonic's (supposedly) short temper? Of course, we can't over-dramatize small issues, dragging consequences too huge for a small fault. But if Sonic's lut for adventure actually hurt people around him and something bad happened in the meanwhile, then yes, it'd be great to see.

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I think the bigger issue is that- suppose you do exploit Sonic's flaws, can we reasonably expect he's going to react to them accordingly or in a manner that derives empathy from us? That's ultimately my biggest hang-up. After all, we've already seen what he does when he is completely stripped of power and used for some pretty evil ends: nothing much, and I feel that is characterization just as much as it is writing. Sonic is stated right there in-game to be an extremely indomitable spirit to the point that very little can really phase him when all is said and done. It's almost like a physical property he has. So, even if you do decide to dump him into a big vat of water, how will he react to the obstacle? Is he going to be absolutely terrified, flounder, show physical struggle, nearly choke and die even, or is he more likely do an X where he kinda sits at the bottom to think about the situation before finding a way out? I just have an inkling that, due to not only the precedent of bad writing, but the actual characterization of Sonic throughout the years, it's more likely to be the latter.

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I think it'd help immensely if the series had anything resembling consistency, because Sonic HAS shown the capacity to be able to grow and learn as a character, but then the writers of the next game decide "That's not cool enough, here's MY awesome version of Sonic" and ignore everything previously established, so on and so on. I mean, I know this is the inevitable result of any long running series(though, there ARE exceptions), but it doesn't make it any less frustrating to watch, and know characters you've grown to like be written in such an inconsistent and shoddy way.

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I honestly don't remember a single time in any of the games where Sonic himself has had to grow and learn something that made him a better person. He's certainly gone through trials and tribulations if the little discussion about the Black Knight is any indication, but not without basically reaffirming his own belief systems and faith in himself.

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Sonic has no moral failings or flaws which permit a low point.

At first, I was wondering what the hell you were talking about. Last time I checked he did indeed have flaws.

And then I read on.

Character enthusiasts have already seen the problem before the elaboration: Sonic doesn't give up. That stubborn pincushion doesn't know the meaning of the word "quit." All of your friends have been kidnapped? Home and all you've ever loved and known is destroyed? Timmy fell down the well? Lucy got an abortion on Christmas Eve behind your back? Minor setbacks. Sonic gives no fucks about "ordeals," he just keeps going until the job is done. Great for pumping up active players who are experiencing the trials themselves, not so much for a passive audience who wants to see the protagonist go through the fire.

I don't know, he did seem to have some moments as the Werehog. I mean, yeah, there wasn't any 'giving up', but he didn't just brush off things like Amy not recognizing him right away.

Forget the Werehog too; they had a good thing going with that until it was revealed that Sonic was basically a one-in-a-trillion happenstance of absolute purity that even the age-old apocalyptic personification of Darkness itself could not fully corrupt him, news that actually surprised him. Sonic is so invincible he doesn't even know he's invincible.

And that bit there is why I'm going to have to disagree about them not having a good thing going with the Werehog. Again, yeah, he wasn't really giving up - there was still the Chaos Emeralds to gather, the planet to save, and Eggman/Dark Gaia to content with. Either way, Sonic was going to get done what needed to be done, but you could tell he wasn't happy with his transformation; it simply wasn't something he just brushed under the rug like so many other things that happened to him.

And then we come to that one cutscene; Sonic thinks that it is not him, but Chip who is the reason he's still the same personality-wise at night, even if his body is different. And when Chip does come out with this revelation, Sonic doesn't quite believe him at first. It is only through his words that it finally 'clicks' for him - without them, I'd suspect Sonic would have thought himself more or less powerless to resist the corruption of Dark Gaia on his own. I honestly think something like what we got here would work fairly well if done right.

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Well, people thought that Sonic was being somewhat OOC to his previously established characterization in Colors, yet it was more well-received anyway as an actual improvement. And if nothing else, people's responses here have reinforced the idea to me that acting OOC is not an inherently bad thing nor is being in-character inherently always good, depending upon the quality of the circumstances therein. And, if we're going to want to do the safest thing possible, we should act in accordance to what makes a good film first and foremost. So unless one disagrees with my notion and believes Sonic's current characterization in the games is actually well-suited for film (I wouldn't mind seeing an argument for this out of curiosity), I don't see why having a potentially boring lead man due to mere unsuitability to the medium would be in the film's best interest at all.
I am not in any way arguing against changing Sonic's character. All I'm saying is that I think it would work out better to make those changes in the games first, and then make a movie where he is like that. To establish his new characterization in his relatively stable "home", rather than in a big risky movie.

The reason I made that poster to begin with was because I've always felt (Don't take this as fact, this is what I think) that a good part of Sonic's character is that it never changes. I was angry with that moment in the comic because instead of showing Sonic as this tough-as-nails good guy that will never give in no matter what the odds - which, in fact, he IS - they, and by "they" I mean the escaped mental patient shoveling this crap out wanted to show Sonic crumbling under the pressure.

Yes. I know. It's how a normal person would react. But the thing is, SONIC IS NOT NORMAL! His mannerisms, his actions, his powers, and his indomitable will are all based in the wildest of fantasies! So stop trying to make the characters act "edgy" and "dark". I'm not saying that the series should be all Teletubbies-kiddified. I'm saying that getting the characters to act "realistically" is joltingly inconsistent to their personalities, as well as prior events.

There's nothing dark nor edgy about a character having more than a one-track mind, and if the characters can't act even somewhat realistically they have seriously fucked up somewhere along the line. It's not as if anyone is suggesting that Sonic break down crying and curse the world, just that he is capable of having more than one thought, that he can get knocked down, right before he picks himself back up and saves everyone. If Sonic isn't even allowed to do that, his mind is practically inhuman, and at that point how much can you empathize with him?

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I don't know, he did seem to have some moments as the Werehog. I mean, yeah, there wasn't any 'giving up', but he didn't just brush off things like Amy not recognizing him right away.

And that bit there is why I'm going to have to disagree about them not having a good thing going with the Werehog. Again, yeah, he wasn't really giving up - there was still the Chaos Emeralds to gather, the planet to save, and Eggman/Dark Gaia to content with. Either way, Sonic was going to get done what needed to be done, but you could tell he wasn't happy with his transformation; it simply wasn't something he just brushed under the rug like so many other things that happened to him.

And then we come to that one cutscene; Sonic thinks that it is not him, but Chip who is the reason he's still the same personality-wise at night, even if his body is different. And when Chip does come out with this revelation, Sonic doesn't quite believe him at first. It is only through his words that it finally 'clicks' for him - without them, I'd suspect Sonic would have thought himself more or less powerless to resist the corruption of Dark Gaia on his own. I honestly think something like what we got here would work fairly well if done right.

Throughout the majority of the story, Sonic doesn't really particularly suffer with the affliction. Of course he's not happy with it, but unhappiness doesn't always equate to suffering. Most of the cut scenes we see with him in his Werehog form, it's business as usual, and even some of the photos in the end show him having a grand ol' time with the people who have come to recognize him as Sonic the Hedgehog regardless of those stubby legs. People act the same in-game as you talk to them at night, and will even ask for his help without a moment's notice.

It's really as normal an adventure that you can get in part because Sonic himself is not all that adversely affected by Dark Gaia's power. He may not believe that he's not holding off corruption out of his own goodness, but it's a trivial belief because he acts contrary to it anyway. He continues helping people, he continues doing the right thing without internal conflict, and he'll happily pose for pictures and hang out with you too. Any struggle he had with the form is minimized significantly. This, along with the fact that Chip wasn't helping him at all, is why the Werehog was a vastly missed opportunity in that regard.

I am not in any way arguing against changing Sonic's character. All I'm saying is that I think it would work out better to make those changes in the games first, and then make a movie where he is like that. To establish his new characterization in his relatively stable "home", rather than in a big risky movie.

I didn't say you were arguing against changing Sonic's character; I was saying that people in general are not going to be opposed to any character changes so long as they deem them to be good changes, and I think this is true regardless of the medium at play here. If we got an animated short where Sonic acted like his Colors self, and Colors Sonic acted like, say, his Sonic 06 self instead, you would not see any noticeable increase in bitching simply because Sonic acted this way in an animated short instead of his "home turf," because the actual characterization stands up to the scrutiny regardless. If nothing else, you'd have a ton more people saying "Why can't Sonic act like he did in that cartoon?"

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I honestly don't remember a single time in any of the games where Sonic himself has had to grow and learn something that made him a better person. He's certainly gone through trials and tribulations if the little discussion about the Black Knight is any indication, but not without basically reaffirming his own belief systems and faith in himself.

Like I said, he has the CAPACITY, I never said it was utilized well.

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You said he "showed the capacity," which indicates him actually demonstrating something, as well as made light of writers ignoring previous stories (implying he did anything unique in games beforehand he's not doing now), so I was assuming you had an example. xP

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Well I guess the ending to Battle would count, in that scenario Sonic is forced to put down a crazed Emerl and is clearly distraught about the whole situation, and it's probably the closest we ever got to Sonic having an internal conflict.

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I didn't say you were arguing against changing Sonic's character; I was saying that people in general are not going to be opposed to any character changes so long as they deem them to be good changes,
Sometimes even good changes can take time to warm up to.

and I think this is true regardless of the medium at play here.
It's not the medium itself that's affecting it, but how much its used. Unless Sega up and dies, you can pretty much guarantee that there will be more Sonic games. So if a game comes out and Sonic acts a little different and maybe not everyone's entirely on board with it, well, there will be more games, they can tweak it a bit next time and maybe people will warm up to it once he's been like that for a game or two and once the writers get comfortable with it. But there's no guarantee of a Sonic the Movie 2, and if things don't go so great with the first, there's even less of a chance. A game is a known risk for them, and one they'll be willing to take again and again. A movie is a bit more an unknown risk for them, and I don't think there's any benefit to compounding that risk by introducing a new characterization for Sonic in it when they can establish it in a game first.

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