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Sonic Unleashed - What is it now after four years?

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If the only thing an alternate path offers is essentially the ability to run on it, the exact same "gameplay" you can have on the mandatory paths, then to me, it's not all that inherently valuable to the experience of enjoying the game, in the exact same way that extraneous combos that you will never need much less actually use to progress through a brawler aren't inherently all that valuable to the gameplay of that specific brawler. In fact, these types of bloated combo lists undermined by perfectly serviceable beginner moves tend to be derided for their very lack of relevance, so I don't know why I'm supposed to praise level design that essentially serves to do the same on the other hand. 

Edited by North Pole Nepenthe

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Do you only play games to beat them?

 

I use all sorts of moves when I play as the werehog. Some I use more often, some I use less. Some are great, some not so great. But that's part of the fun; trying new things, handling things differently. If I looked at levels as problems to solve as efficiently as possible, then yeah, anything not part of the best solution is irrelevant, but I can't imagine only playing like that.

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I understand why people give Colors all the due props; I just think it's a heavily misguided view of the franchise when you consider the fact that Colors ape's Unleashed's technical workings and penchant for lightheartedness. Literally, without Unleashed, Colors would not exist.

 

 

You can say that about literally every game in existence, but people tend to prefer the more polished product. No one is going to say that something like the original Metroid is better than Super Metroid just because it owes a lot to it, because the latter is undeniably the better game.

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Do you only play games to beat them?

 

I use all sorts of moves when I play as the werehog. Some I use more often, some I use less. Some are great, some not so great. But that's part of the fun; trying new things, handling things differently. If I looked at levels as problems to solve as efficiently as possible, then yeah, anything not part of the best solution is irrelevant, but I can't imagine only playing like that.

People do. Its why the Unleashed Daytime gameplay and Rush gameplay became popular.

A lot of people think Sonic is just about running through brightly coloured stages to the end as fast as possible. Anything but the fastest and most direct route to the end, is meaningless.

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Do you only play games to beat them?

 

I use all sorts of moves when I play as the werehog. Some I use more often, some I use less. Some are great, some not so great. But that's part of the fun; trying new things, handling things differently. If I looked at levels as problems to solve as efficiently as possible, then yeah, anything not part of the best solution is irrelevant, but I can't imagine only playing like that.

 

I don't look at levels as problems to solve as if I'm some robot, and I'd wish you'd stop acting like I cannot possibly have any fun at all just because I don't appreciate games the exact same way you do. It's actually irritating and elitist as fuck.

 

There's many games I play where I'm aiming to be heavily engaged an in interesting world, and to me, a virtual world becomes interesting when gameplay, level design, and narrative start serving each other and working in unison to create a cohesive whole: A problem is presented, the means to achieve it are bestowed upon you, and you must travel far and wide to do it. When you imbue a game with that kind of actual life, that makes truly engaging exploration. 

 

If I were to use an apt metaphor, I would point to driving. I personally find driving fun. However, this doesn't mean I find it the bees knees to drive around the Georgia Dome parking garage, even though I'm pretty sure that bitch has more asphalt than the two roads I travel to the local convenience store. Rather, the act and beauty of driving, and thus the fun of doing it, is instead naturally enhanced by driving to somewhere interesting, or going somewhere that I really want to go, or happening across something I've never seen before, or just even having my usual roads enhanced by beautiful weather; something. I can't have any of this in a parking garage, so it doesn't matter to me that it's bigger. It's still a less meaningful driving experience than potentially going to that convenience store.

 

You can say that about literally every game in existence, but people tend to prefer the more polished product. No one is going to say that something like the original Metroid is better than Super Metroid just because it owes a lot to it, because the latter is undeniably the better game.

 

Quality is irrelevant to my point. If people are saying that Metroid did not set the stage for Super Metroid by introducing the framework that Super Metroid uses as the basis of its gameplay, simply put that's an idiotic viewpoint. This is literally like saying Sonic 1 did nothing for S3&K because S3&K is better.

Edited by North Pole Nepenthe

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I don't look at levels as problems to solve as if I'm some robot, and I'd wish you'd stop acting like I cannot possibly have any fun at all just because I don't appreciate games the exact same way you do. It's actually irritating and elitist as fuck.

I'm not suggesting you aren't having fun, so cool it. Hell, solving problems is one way to have fun, it's just that it was starting to seem like that's the only way you approached games.

There's many games I play where I'm aiming to be heavily engaged an in interesting world, and to me, a virtual world becomes interesting when gameplay, level design, and narrative start serving each other and working in unison to create a cohesive whole: A problem is presented, the means to achieve it are bestowed upon you, and you must travel far and wide to do it. When you imbue a game with that kind of actual life, that makes truly engaging exploration.

So you do focus on solving the problem. A problem that needs to be solved, a goal that needs to be reached, binds the experience together. There's nothing wrong with that, and I would say the vast majority of gamers like having a goal to shoot for, but I don't think an experience is worthless if it doesn't have some goal attached.

If I were to use an apt metaphor, I would point to driving. I personally find driving fun. However, this doesn't mean I find it the bees knees to drive around the Georgia Dome parking garage, even though I'm pretty sure that bitch has more asphalt than the two roads I travel to the local convenience store.

You can't compare a parking lot to multiple paths in a Sonic level. A parking lot is featureless and directionless; a path in a Sonic game is anything but.

Rather, the act and beauty of driving, and thus the fun of doing it, is instead naturally enhanced by driving to somewhere interesting, or going somewhere that I really want to go, or happening across something I've never seen before, or just even having my usual roads enhanced by beautiful weather; something. I can't have any of this in a parking garage, so it doesn't matter to me that it's bigger. It's still a less meaningful driving experience than potentially going to that convenience store.

So are you sure it's the driving you like, or is the driving just a means to an end? 

Quality is irrelevant to my point. If people are saying that Metroid did not set the stage for Super Metroid by introducing the framework that Super Metroid uses as the basis of its gameplay, simply put that's an idiotic viewpoint. This is literally like saying Sonic 1 did nothing for S3&K because S3&K is better.

I don't think anyone's ever argued that Colors appeared spontaneously out of nothing. Everyone knows it's modified from Unleashed Day's concepts.

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I'm not suggesting you aren't having fun, so cool it. Hell, solving problems is one way to have fun, it's just that it was starting to seem like that's the only way you approached games.

The times in the past we've been on this point you've asked me how in the world I can possibly have fun with the way I personally experience games which, if you now recognize that my way of looking at things can be fun to others, then question just comes off as snarky; asking "Do you only play games to win?" doesn't seem to far removed from the sentiment. I'm sure you can see how that'd be offensive. And it's not the only way I approach games, as not every game I like is able to be played like Zelda or Unleashed or any game with similar kinds attempts at world-building.

 

So you do focus on solving the problem. A problem that needs to be solved, a goal that needs to be reached, binds the experience together. There's nothing wrong with that, and I would say the vast majority of gamers like having a goal to shoot for, but I don't think an experience is worthless if it doesn't have some goal attached.

 

What kind of game does not have a goal whatsoever? Whether it's rescuing the world, attaining the highest score possible, or even arguably getting the best possible ending you want in a visual novel, there is always something to achieve in a game. If there is absolutely nothing to achieve, no win state, no goal, how can you even call it a game versus, I don't know, a digital interactive toy?

 

You can't compare a parking lot to multiple paths in a Sonic level. A parking lot is featureless and directionless; a path in a Sonic game is anything but.

A parking garage- specifically the one I named- is not featureless nor directionless. It certainly has indicated ways to go, and multiple ways to travel around in it. It goes uphill and downhill. Plenty of obstacles to watch out for. And again, it's huge. But it's still not fun to drive in.

 

So are you sure it's the driving you like, or is the driving just a means to an end?

 

Driving is not a means to an end to experience any of these things; I could just as well ride a bike or walk if I wanted to. Regardless, I do like driving. However, the actual enjoyability of driving can be increased or decreased by any number of factors. This is because I don't drive in a vacuum, and neither do I play games in one either, where the mere act of doing something fun can be affecting by the factors around it.

 

 I don't think anyone's ever argued that Colors appeared spontaneously out of nothing. Everyone knows it's modified from Unleashed Day's concepts.

 

That's not what I'm saying people are arguing at all. xP

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Alright this is getting to the point of becoming heated so I'm going to have to ask everyone to cool down before it gets any worse.

Honestly the only thing I'm getting out of this argument (as much as I can read from it, because I really hate quote dissection) is that different people have different ways of having fun and in the end trying to debate that is kind of pointless.

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I actually had more fun with Unleashed than I did with Colours, which to me was boring and frustrating with the Wisp Gimmicks and the less than tight controls that it sometimes expected me to have to clear some of the harder Acts, Like I honestly couldn't imagine tackling Generations version of Planet Wisp with the Wiimote and Nunchuk, this could also be my Bias talking since Unleashed introduced Rooftop Run, my favourite Modern 3D Sonic stage...Ever, but honestly I can go back and play Unleashed again and again and again, even if I just replay the day stages a few times over, I didn't get that kind of desire to replay any of Colours levels, or hell even the game.... I haven't even touched the game since completion of it the day after release, it just collects dust on my shelf, Unleashed however takes pride place next to my Consoles as one of my most played games, so with that notion I'm clearly siding with Unleashed here.

 

If there is one thing I feel Colours did better than Unleashed in, it was the Final boss battle, because it was pretty epic taking on JUST Eggman as Sonic for a change, rather than the obvious "win button" Super Sonic gimmick SEGA love to abuse, the Dark Gaia/Perfect Dark Gaia fight was shit and controlled terribly, the only thing that kept me playing was the amazing Orchestrated version of Endless Possibilities, but Colours had a good challenging boss fight WITH good music AND a climatic finish AND a great "suspense" Ending.

Edited by Super Snowiko

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Since criticism of the Sonic and Chip duo has been rather abundant I'd like to throw in my 2 cents.
I had mixed feelings about them, Chip was cute and their friendship rather endearing,generally speaking I like them, but a couple of things seemed off;
Firstly,It was 'too easy', as I mentioned in the 'what are you're favorite character dynamics?' thread, it just kinda seemed like they had to be nice to each other for 5 minutes and the rest was smooth sailing.


Secondly,Sonic never seems that impressed by his old friends, acting more professional around them,in and out of Unleashed, similar situations with other one-time characters,too.

Edited by Mysterics

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I dunno, Sonic's and Chip's relationship in Unleashed is what I found really charming despite how more could have been done to make it even more so. I lol'd at how curt Sonic could be with him laugh.png I really found it funny how he suddenly brakes when exiting the Mazuri Gaia Temple and Chip falls off his head and faceplants and Sonic doesn't care XD Whilst Sonic was pretty motivated to help Chip out of guilt and because, as he later admitted, he didn't even need a reason, he also had moments give and take with him.

 

Werehog flips Chip out of the way with one finger when Chip gets in the way then Chip gets his revenge by kicking him in the back of the head. Found it even funnier how Sonic makes a grab for him to get revenge and misses XD!

 

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Not to mention how he roughly shoves Chip out of the day when he asks for more tea whilst Pickle is spouting his lecture about Dark Gaia and the Temples, eyes half-closed in obvious irritance;

 

1exk0h.png

 

...and then Chip takes it upon himself to steal the teapot when no one's looking and pour himself tea because Sonic won't do it for him.

 

It's little things like this that made both characters so entertaining to watch in the cutscenes. Not to forget how Sonic exhibited surprising greed when it came to fighting over a single meat bun. He must like eating a lot happy.png

 

Edited by Vertekins

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Do you only play games to beat them?

 

I use all sorts of moves when I play as the werehog. Some I use more often, some I use less. Some are great, some not so great. But that's part of the fun; trying new things, handling things differently. If I looked at levels as problems to solve as efficiently as possible, then yeah, anything not part of the best solution is irrelevant, but I can't imagine only playing like that.

 

I can see where you're coming from, and it's why the formula of Sonic that was established 2 decades ago still works so well now.  However, at the same time, one of the main reasons (I feel) it worked well was because there was a REASON to go back and do other things.  You genuinely felt like you wanted to explore different paths and tackle levels differently to see what kind of things were hidden behind each route.  Route X may have been that little bit faster, but Route Y has that little 1-Up hidden away somewhere for example.

 

I do not think this is the case for the Werehog however.  The main reason being is that there is no reason to do anything other than the most efficient combos.  You take a game like DMC or Bayonetta, you're genuinely rewarded for being creative with your moves and for thinking outside the box.  It feels infinitely more satisfying because you're not only applying your skill and creativity, but you're getting something from doing so.  On the other hand, the Werehog doesn't reward creativity at all.  The battle system is rather barebones and primitive and although there are a lot of moves, I find there isn't much point in using them apart from as a desperate attempt to try and make the gameplay feel marginally less repetitive.   

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I never liked this Sonic game, it's the worst Sonic game of the 2000 decade, for me. It's just too cheesy, Amy and Tails are just there to fill up, also the werehog stages were boring as well. It was good when I could control Sonic on his own but still it's got no diversity I think. 

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I never liked this Sonic game, it's the worst Sonic game of the 2000 decade, for me. It's just too cheesy, Amy and Tails are just there to fill up, also the werehog stages were boring as well. It was good when I could control Sonic on his own but still it's got no diversity I think.

What, worse than '06?

Edited by Frogging101

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Dude, there is absolutely no reason to compare any Sonic game to the travesty that was Sonic 06. Not even ShTH, the very game that made Sonic lose a lot of his reputation, is close to being on it's level of terribad...and that's saying a lot.

 

Fair enough that you don't like Unleashed, but to say that it's worse than Sonic 06 will have people think something's wrong with you. That's just a fair warning, because that game is flat out unforgivable to most people here.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

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Well it's just maybe because Unleashed didn't quite get to me. And I am absolutely not saying '06 is a good game. Oh god no. It's got countless flaws and all we already know. But still Unleashed is a game I couldn't get past. I didn't like the new characters, the story, setting, idea... I had recently played the Zelda game in which Link did the same thing as Sonic does in unleashed so I found it a not so original idea. I could tell you about what I think about Sonic '06 but that's another thing.

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Well it's just maybe because Unleashed didn't quite get to me. And I am absolutely not saying '06 is a good game. Oh god no. It's got countless flaws and all we already know. But still Unleashed is a game I couldn't get past. I didn't like the new characters, the story, setting, idea... I had recently played the Zelda game in which Link did the same thing as Sonic does in unleashed so I found it a not so original idea. I could tell you about what I think about Sonic '06 but that's another thing.

Both Wolves are gimmicks, but frankly I found Wolf Link MUCH less memorable than the Werehog. Probably because I can't remember what was the point behind it, assuming there actually WAS a point.

 

Also, Werehog = Partial Eldritch Abomination that has stretchy limbs.

Wolf Link = Wolf with an imp on his back.

Edited by Malpercio

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Pretty sure the point behind Wolf Link was that, as someone who bore a piece of the triforce, he was immune to the effects of the Twilight turning him into spirits like everyone else and could very well be the key to undoing the mess. It just so turned out the at the immunity resulted in him becoming a wolf due to the dark magic involved.

 

...you know, it would be easier to say that the Goddesses intended it to be that way and leave it at that.

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While we're sort of on the subject of the argument that the Werehog is a ripoff of Wolf Link (and this is directed at no one in particular), Twilight Princess didn't invent the concept of people turning into wolves.

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I think the Werehog was to Sonic what guns were to Shadow - a way to badass-ify him. When I first played Unleashed and the night levels, my first thought was not Wolf Link, but rather Kratos from God of War. And I still think it would have been better to have Knuckles play those levels instead.

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It really wouldn't, and the only reason people say that is because it's Knuckles. If it wasn't fun to play as the werehog with all those enemies and their lifebars being tedious to kill, swapping him out for Knuckles while keeping those enemies and lifebars isn't gonna make it any better.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

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