Sonic Unleashed - What is it now after four years?

[tenchibr]

And then you'll run into a second problem with swapping the werehog with Knuckles: Level Design. 

 

 

Of course!

 

Just replacing them would probably make it WORSE, because the levels were designed for the Werehog to begin with. But look at the Night Skycramper Stage, for example, and think of Day Rooftop Run. Think of how BIG Day Rooftop feels like (even if it doesn't turn out to be and it's just the game's engine playing tricks), and then you look at Night Skyscramper and the reason it's long is because of how slow the pacing is.

 

Now think of Red Mountain for a second; it's a tiny stage but they packed a lot into it. A combination of those 3 stages would make a great Skyscramper level for Knuckles in my opinion.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Phantom R / Tenchibr

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Of course!

 

Just replacing them would probably make it WORSE, because the levels were designed for the Werehog to begin with. But look at the Night Skycramper Stage, for example, and think of Day Rooftop Run. Think of how BIG Day Rooftop feels like (even if it doesn't turn out to be and it's just the game's engine playing tricks), and then you look at Night Skyscramper and the reason it's long is because of how slow the pacing is.

 

Now think of Red Mountain for a second; it's a tiny stage but they packed a lot into it. A combination of those 3 stages would make a great Skyscramper level for Knuckles in my opinion.

Yeah, and with this statement you ran into a THIRD problem that ties into the second: The actual gameplay itself.

 

You're comparing Red Mountain to Rooftop Run without considering the gameplays they were made for for Knuckles and the Werehog, specifically the hot-and-cold Treasure Hunting gameplay of the former and the simple Reach the Goal of both Day and Night stages of the latter.

 

And tying into the second problem I outlined, I doesn't matter how big the stage is when Knuckles could still climb to the top of the highest building and glide down to reach the goal, and you can't even solve it by putting the goal on the highest point because, for one, the player would end up catching onto where the goal rings are, secondly, it would still be a pain in the ass to climb up to those places just to reach the goal ring since Knuckles because it would end up becoming equally tedious and repetitive as the werehog. Instead of fighting enemies so you could progress, or gliding from the highest point straight for the goal, rather than boost-boost-boost, you're forcing the player to climb-climb-climb. So you're right back at square one with the problem of putting Knuckles into the game.

 

And this isn't even getting into how Red Mountain for Knuckles was a small space specifically for you to hunt down the Master Emerald pieces that the game required you to find. Nevermind how the way it was done in Adventures is COMPLETELY different from how it is with Unleashed with or without the werehog.

 

While making an example is one thing, making a game around a mechanic or feature for a character want put into it isn't as simple as "think of how it was done in X game and go from there" when mechanics and features from the past are different from the way they are now. When framework of the game changes, such as going from the slower Adventure-oriented style of the Adventures changing to the Boost-dominated Modern Gameplay we have now, you need to completely rework everything so that it manages to suit it without becoming a problem.

 

Look, there is absolutely no way to have Knuckles playable in Unleashed without starting EVERYTHING from the ground up regarding the gameplay. Keeping the combat would still have the same problems as the werehog, but with Knuckles in place without doing any better; allowing him to be able to glide and climb would break the game in that there's no conflict or struggle equal to the reward; and the game needs to be taliored to Knuckles so that it would work at all, but doing so the way the Adventures did is completely disregarding the differences between the two games.

[Phos]

I just realized that I could liken this game's primary moment to moment features to a lane based endless runner.  Really don't like how constrained you are in this game, you're barely doing anything.  

 

I'd also like to point out, like I said in my status update a little while back, almost all the environments as well as Dark Gaia and all the humans were deigned by different external artists, and it's really just the common lighting engine that keeps them looking at all related.  

 

Ah, Sonic Unleashed's character animation. It's smoother than the finest silk. Generations comes....close but no cigar and all other games? Ha ha ha. NO. Not even close to the painstaking and lovingly-done animation.

 

What really impresses me about this game is the way both form's models have such intricate touches

 

- If you walk slowly as the Werehog, his huge arms will buffet his cranial quills about without them or the quills clipping through the other unrealistically.

- If you position either form on stairs in a certain position, his leg will adjust to the step instead of his foot clipping through the step. This even takes effect if Sonic is doing his idle animations.

- Normal form's mouth will switch sides on his muzzle to face the camera if it is panned around him.

- If normal form is not balanced correctly on grinding rails, he'll spin his arms about, frantically trying not to fall off.

- The way Werehog yawns and nods off only to snap up trying to stay awake and then shakes his head to get himself back to reality is funny and greatly animated.

The foot on the stairs thing is a pretty standard feature of Havok animation.  

 

 

The animation overall is good, but there is one aspect of it that bothered me...

 

 

Exaggeration is exactly what you want from a cartoon character. You don't want it to be over the top, obviously, but the lack of brow movement hurts the overall expression. A lot of the time it looks uncomfortable too, as though his brow is fixed in one place.

This model had a funny thing going on where they used like a dozen bones on his mouth but like four for his brow.

[Ebby]

Sonic Unleashed brought Sonic back for me. I was done with the series until Unleashed. It sparked hope in me. This is saying something considering I expected nothing from the game.

 

Do I still play it? Yeah. From time to time. It's still fun! Though the controls aren't as tight as the controls in Generations and the camera does act silly in night stages at times, it's a solid game. Werehog is always going to be a silly idea, but the execution worked! And this game NEVER bores the hell out of me with tedious as fuck platforming like Colors did. Colors... it's been years and you still piss me off! XD

 

Generations did really improve on Sonic Unleashes' gameplay, but Unleashed was the ultimate step forward.

[ThisMachine]

Another thing that threw me for a loop with Unleashed is why they chose the game that introduced the fastest Sonic gameplay yet to include arguably the slowest gameplay since labyrinth. Was it to make the day stages seem even faster by comparison or were they just like Sonic recolor powers activate, form of werewolf! Whether you like him or not, I'll just never understand the logic that went into the werehog inclusion when they were trying so hard to make Sonic feel like Sonic again and then they go and toss in one of the weirdest gimmicks the series has seen.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Another thing that threw me for a loop with Unleashed is why they chose the game that introduced the fastest Sonic gameplay yet to include arguably the slowest gameplay since labyrinth. Was it to make the day stages seem even faster by comparison or were they just like Sonic recolor powers activate, form of werewolf! Whether you like him or not, I'll just never understand the logic that went into the werehog inclusion when they were trying so hard to make Sonic feel like Sonic again and then they go and toss in one of the weirdest gimmicks the series has seen.

Even those who don't like the werehog understand the reason they added it: because the Daytime gameplay was so blisteringly fast and you could finish stages in minutes, they didn't want the playtime to be so small, and they could only do so much with making miles upon miles of daytime stages to satisfy the speediness of the game before people finished it so quickly.

 

So the made the werehog to pad it out in addition to being part of the game's duality theme.

[ThisMachine]

I understand they were going for balance but they approached it wrong because it feels like you spend more time as the werehog which isn't good for such a controversial addition to the game.

[Diogenes]

Another thing that threw me for a loop with Unleashed is why they chose the game that introduced the fastest Sonic gameplay yet to include arguably the slowest gameplay since labyrinth.

I'm trying to think of alternate gameplay we've had that's been faster, and failing. There's no doubt the werehog isn't Sonic-fast, but compared to shit like fishing, and mechs, and Silver, he's pretty damn quick.

[Komodin]

Another thing that threw me for a loop with Unleashed is why they chose the game that introduced the fastest Sonic gameplay yet to include arguably the slowest gameplay since labyrinth.

Slowest game since Labyrinth? Hardly; say what you will about the Werehog, but unlike a certain pair of hedgehogs and large cat, at least he can actually run.

[Dummy Bear]

I'm trying to think of alternate gameplay we've had that's been faster, and failing. There's no doubt the werehog isn't Sonic-fast, but compared to shit like fishing, and mechs, and Silver, he's pretty damn quick.

I can complete the Knuckles stages in SA1 and some Eggman mech stages in less than 3 minutes...

Edited January 11, 2013 by Slash

[Phos]

If all you ever did was mash Y/triangle, the werehog would have been simply terrible, level up his moveset attribute and explore it and you'll find better ways of dealing with many enemies...  But that's kind of the problem, you're probably just doing this to get through fights faster.  The game doesn't really force you to.  

[Diogenes]

I can complete the Knuckles stages in SA1 and some Eggman mech stages in less than 3 minutes...

This is because the stages are small, not because the characters, or more specifically their gameplay styles, are fast.

[Blacklightning]

But that's kind of the problem, you're probably just doing this to get through fights faster.  The game doesn't really force you to.  

 

Uh, yeah it does actually most of the time. A lot of the time you'll find the game spawns impassible barriers every time you get into a confrontation until you kill every last enemy in the general area. The only notable exception off the top of my head is Chun-Nan night, and even then you'll still fall into inescapable ambushes unless you know where the shortcuts to get around them are.

[JezMM]

While Dragon Road is most certainly the easiest one, there are a surprisingly large amount of levels that you can breeze through by ignoring enemies.  But then of course the point is they should have been that length to begin with.

[Tara]

Note that all comments I make this thread pertain to the Wii version of the game.

 

I thought and to this day still think that the level and boss design in Unleashed is some of the best in the series.  I actually even like the Werehog stages.

 

What killed the game initially for me was that there were too many werehog stages in close proximity to one another.  I feel like there should have been more of a choice as to which ones you get to play in which order.  Like in Sonic Rush, they don't force you to switch between Sonic and Blaze every so often, and I know that's different because they're different characters, but I'd still like more of a choice.

 

Also, as I mentioned in another topic just a minute ago, I felt the controls in the daytime were terrible.  Steering Sonic felt more like controlling a car than a person and as such, it was difficult to turn.  It was sort of like Sonic R, in fact, only not nearly as frustrating.

[T-Min]

I thought and to this day still think that the level and boss design in Unleashed is some of the best in the series.

ok

 

Note that all comments I make this thread pertain to the Wii version of the game.

Wii version

egghh...not to bash on your opinion but...

...would you really say that?

[FourCartridge]

What killed the game initially for me was that there were too many werehog stages in close proximity to one another.  I feel like there should have been more of a choice as to which ones you get to play in which order.  Like in Sonic Rush, they don't force you to switch between Sonic and Blaze every so often, and I know that's different because they're different characters, but I'd still like more of a choice.

 

Thing is, if you we're offered a Rush-like choice between Sonic & Werehog, people would have had a 30 minute joyride as Sonic and then 5 hours of slogging it with the Werehog. The problem could just have solved though a better ratio of Hedgehog/Werehog stages IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also T-Man, you know what else has questionable design? Your brain! *munch*

 

 

INFECTED

Edited January 13, 2013 by FourCartridge

[Brad]

Still don't like this game. I appreciate the day stages - they're mostly visually appealing and they're a breathe of fresh air for it's time. And the day music is pretty darn cool. But I didn't sign up for the Werehog. I know they wanted to bring back the platform and exploration through the Werehog as opposed to Sonic's stages being a speedy spectacle, but that's obviously where the game falls totally flat to me. We all know the good Sonic formula to success, so when this game tried to split that formula it just wasn't nearly as fun. For me, personally.

 

Colours was great for me. In retrospect know I can see it's flaws dull its shine a fair bit more (my fangoggles were glued on with its release to great reviews and pure Sonic gameplay, plus I needed anti Sonic 4 ailment) I still stay it is the turning point in this "modern" series we have. It took what Unleashed did right and built upon it; maybe not to perfect satisfaction but in a way that reminded us that Sonic is a platformer. Not a thrill ride that you can boost and occasionally homing attack and apply a few move gimmicks to. Obviously I can identify the sheer amount of block platforming and 2D sections it forced upon us but it gave us so much back. A Sonic formula that was a blast to play with a gimmick which was optional and fun. Not to mention the welcome return of wonderfully varied and colourful zones in Act format, Super Sonic, significantly reduced cast and new voice actors (RCS is the best Sonic so far IMO, Jason can suck it with his wacky uncontrollable tone).

Edited January 13, 2013 by Symbotic

[ChikaBoing]

A fault I see with the game, is having Hashimoto being moved up as a Director for this game.

 

He's a good tech guy obviously, but his Idea to moving Sonic forward gameplay wise, wasn't quite ideal. Previously established game designers on Sonic games, became directors. But Hashimoto previously only did quasi minigame stuff. I feel that Iizuka (who moved from a game designer to a director in Adventure) and company did a better job with Adventure witha gameplay for Sonic that more people agreed on.

[Tara]

ok

 

 

 

egghh...not to bash on your opinion but...

...would you really say that?

 

The thing isn't that I haven't PLAYED the 360/PS3 versions of the games, so I can't judge them. That's why I was saying that the comments all directed toward the Wii version, not because I prefer it or whatever.  Yes, I'm positive they're a thousand times better considering the PS2/Wii versions were both just watered down ports, but since I haven't played them, I can't accurately judge them.  That being said, just because one may be better doesn't mean the Unleashed level designs in the Wii version aren't great. Under a better gameplay engine, they'd be a lot more enjoyably to play.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Akito

[T-Min]

The thing isn't that I haven't PLAYED the 360/PS3 versions of the games, so I can't judge them. That's why I was saying that the comments all directed toward the Wii version, not because I prefer it or whatever.  Yes, I'm positive they're a thousand times better considering the PS2/Wii versions were both just watered down ports, but since I haven't played them, I can't accurately judge them.  That being said, just because one may be better doesn't mean the Unleashed level designs in the Wii version aren't great. Under a better gameplay engine, they'd be a lot more enjoyably to play.

Well, yeah, but...

 

You said that the Wii version's level designs are some of the best in the entire series. I mean, Unwiished's level design is even more "hold-forward-to-win" than that of Generations 3DS - and that's saying something.

[Tara]

Well, yeah, but...

 

You said that the Wii version's level designs are some of the best in the entire series. I mean, Unwiished's level design is even more "hold-forward-to-win" than that of Generations 3DS - and that's saying something.

Also, I haven't played any version of Generations.  Yeah =(

 

But still, yes, I see your point.  However, unlike Colors and a lot of the handheld 2-D games, I felt there was a sense of order in the stages.  The enemies were placed strategically well and the environmental obstacles are up to par with Sonic Adventure, in my opinion.  It was just fun platforming.  Maybe not at its absolute finest, but if it were released ten years earlier, I probably wouldn't have noticed much of a difference in terms of quality. 

Edited January 13, 2013 by Akito

[Diogenes]

Unleashed Wii is a game where you ran down empty hallways trying to find the gameplay (spoilers: it's homing attacks and QTEs).

[Tara]

Funny, that's what I thought moreso of Colors.  I don't know, though.  Even on the Wii, I think Eggmanland was amazing.  I liked that the focus wasn't just on enemies, but also slipping through cracks, grabbing a hand rail at just the right time, etc.  I don't know.  I thought it was fun, but then, I'm more forgiving when it comes to flaws in video games, I suppose.

[Spin Attaxx]

Unleashed Wii is a game where you ran down empty hallways trying to find the gameplay (spoilers: it's homing attacks and QTEs).

 

Is Unleashed HD any better? From what I've read, the hub worlds and town missions seem to set right what Sonic 06 made wrong, and the Werehog is better. Also, there seems to be more levels, better graphics - I think I just answered my own question.

 

If it is better, I hope they rerelease the HD version for the Wii U sometime in the future.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Spin Attaxx