Sonic Unleashed - What is it now after four years?

[Emmett L. Brown]

All this talk from me about a Sonic Unleashed without Chip is just a mental exercise and my fond wish for some more Sonic/Tails character development that was happily given to me in abundance with Sonic Colors. I can't really complain about Chip.

 

But a Sonic Unleashed without the Werehog is a completely different matter. I hate the concept, the character, the gameplay, and that godawful constantly repeating battle anthem. If the developers were so dead-set on their new game having God of War gameplay, then I'd have preferred this game be Sonic & Knuckles Unleashed. Knuckles is canonically a fighter, a strong man, a guy who would take down a group of enemies with speedy punches instead of boosts and homing attacks.

 

Or alternatively a crossover with Ristar if you want to capitalise on the stretch arms mechanic. Who here remembers Ristar? Little star guy? Got one really fun game and then got forgotten about?

[Scar]

All this talk from me about a Sonic Unleashed without Chip is just a mental exercise and my fond wish for some more Sonic/Tails character development that was happily given to me in abundance with Sonic Colors. I can't really complain about Chip.

 

But a Sonic Unleashed without the Werehog is a completely different matter. I hate the concept, the character, the gameplay, and that godawful constantly repeating battle anthem. If the developers were so dead-set on their new game having God of War gameplay, then I'd have preferred this game be Sonic & Knuckles Unleashed. Knuckles is canonically a fighter, a strong man, a guy who would take down a group of enemies with speedy punches instead of boosts and homing attacks.

 

Or alternatively a crossover with Ristar if you want to capitalise on the stretch arms mechanic. Who here remembers Ristar? Little star guy? Got one really fun game and then got forgotten about?

 

Thing is though, the Werehog gave us a look into certain aspects of Sonic's character that would not have been touched upon, had Knuckles been there to take over the combat gameplay.

[Nepenthe]

The Werehog is as much a Knuckles replacement as much as Chip is a Tails replacement. e.g., he's not. Replacing him would be a dumb idea, especially since I thought we could at least agree that genre roulette didn't suddenly get better depending on what 3D model you used. Hunting for gems wasn't cool because Knuckles did it.

[Pawn]

Thing is though, the Werehog gave us a look into certain aspects of Sonic's character that would not have been touched upon, had Knuckles been there to take over the combat gameplay.

 

While I don't believe that replacing the Werehog with Knuckles would have helped, these aspects of Sonic's character that you mention were barely explored at all. I would have enjoyed the idea more had the game not shied away from showing any vulnerability on Sonic's part. As it stands, I find myself indifferent to it.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Pawn Crackers

[Jack / Joker]

I thought the Werehog's story purpose was supposed to show that Sonic is unbreakable? While everyone else expressed their dark side, Sonic showed he never really had one, that sort of thing?

 

There's a question actually, it makes sense for Dr. Eggman to be unaffected by Dark Gaia since he's already an evil bastard, but why were Tails, Amy and Professor Pickle completely unaffected by the Dark Gaia energy?

[#EndyGate]

Personally, if anyone were to replace Chip, I think it should've Knuckles. Knuckles with his spiritual mumbo jumbo and already established connection to the chaos emeralds could be an easy replacement for what Chip had going, and the need for Knuckles and Sonic to flesh out their relationship only makes it better. I mean with a bit of shuffling you could phase Chip out pretty easily while still capturing a good chunk if not all of the charm the original game had:

 

1. Have Tails catch Sonic after reentering the atmosphere

2. Have Angel Island crash land on some fragment of the planet and have Knuckles go on a little mini-quest to figure out what the hell was going on, bringing the Master Emerald with him so that no one would steal/harm it while he was away

3. Let Knuckles encounter Sonic at some point, likely pretty early on in the game, and after a bit of bickering he tags along

4. Have Knuckles use the power of the Master Emerald to reactivate the Gaia Temples

5. Connect the Gaia Temples with the Emerald Alter for a bit of a deep historical lesson for Knuckles, possibly telling of the origins of Angel Island and maybe a few connections to the Echidnas

6. Use Knuckles' hermitness to give him a few deep moments about learning of the world around him, and pieces of the past of himself and the things he's so accustomed to

7. During the final boss confrontation, have Knuckles call upon the other emeralds to let Sonic go Super

8. Have Knuckles unleash a blast from the Master Emerald as the final blow to take down Dark Gaia and then: 

a) the platform he's standing on crumbles from the force of the blast, leaving Knuckles helpless until Sonic flies in to save him

b ) Sonic passes out just before the blast is unleashed, and although Knuckles is able to glide over to catch Sonic, the two exchange a bit of gooey sentimental shit in exhaustion while cracking jokes about how bleak the situation was until Tails flies in on the Tornado to save their asses

 

Hell you could've even replaced the Werehog with Knuckles since he really isn't the character to mindlessly tag along, and the combat system would fit him quite nicely with a few tweaks. As for Tails, you could simply say that he was finding info while the other two were doing shit, which has basically been his story for the past few games, I mean unless we plan on adding a completely new gameplay style to the mix. Though I do have a bit of an issue of removing the Werehog in general, since Sonic's interactions with Amy and the reassurances that even as a monster, he's still an incredible guy were some of those feel filled moments. Maybe instead have something like having Tails tag along with normal Sonic during day segments, and Knuckles assist Werehog Sonic during night segments, but even then that seems like it could've been a bit much. 

Edited December 22, 2012 by Youre a Mean One Mr Cero

[Vertekins]

On the contrary, I found the way Werehog delved into Sonic's character to still be incredibly interesting despite the fact that more could've been done to exploit the transformation.

 

Sensically, all of the Werehog's flashy and funny-looking moves were of Sonic's invention and at least show that he's smart enough to create moves that effectively utilize his new form's properties. And because Sonic apparently has a propensity for being more unretrained and vicious in Werehog form, the moves often look shockingly violent and bone-crushing yet still comical-looking. I always wondered if this was partly because of his frustration with the way the transformation violates what makes him...him; It robs him of his speed.

 

Sonic isn't even aware that it is his own lack of self-doubt and pure heart that stops him from succumbing to Dark Gaia completely instead believing that it was Chip's influence that was 'protecting' him. This actually shows that Sonic is oblivious to some of his most positive qualities and hints that his nature is so ingrained that he doesn't acknowledge it as being something beneficial to him on a more personal level.

[Jack / Joker]

It always makes me chuckle how Eggman doesn't really care about Sonic's transformation. He just says "That's a new look for you - festive!", pretty much implying that he's seen Sonic transform and shapeshift so goddamn much it's not impressive anymore

[Pawn]

I thought the Werehog's story purpose was supposed to show that Sonic is unbreakable? While everyone else expressed their dark side, Sonic showed he never really had one, that sort of thing?

 

It would have been far more impressive if Sonic had been forced to overcome his darker side, rather than simply be immune to it in the first place. You spend the game leveling this beast up and learning new moves, and Sonic's gradual mastery of it could have reflected this. He would have still come across as an amazing guy in the end and a relatable character to boot.

 

@Vertekins: His adjustment to the form is exactly what should have been explored. Like you said, you can only wonder how he felt about it.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Pawn Crackers

[Nepenthe]

Yeah, chalk me up as another person who doesn't think it's very relatable or interesting to have a character that is so pure-hearted beyond his knowledge that he's impossible for the Lovecraftian personification of apocalyptic darkness to corrupt beyond making him cuter. I don't think Sonic really reflects on anything in the game as a result of his form or his hand in getting Earth destroyed, but is rather reactionary to a couple of events before the Werehog basically becomes second-nature to him anyway.

Edited December 22, 2012 by North Pole Nepenthe

[Emmett L. Brown]

The Werehog is as much a Knuckles replacement as much as Chip is a Tails replacement. e.g., he's not. Replacing him would be a dumb idea, especially since I thought we could at least agree that genre roulette didn't suddenly get better depending on what 3D model you used. Hunting for gems wasn't cool because Knuckles did it.

Don't get me wrong. My best choice would be the remove the Werehog completely and leave nothing remotely similar in its place. All I was saying is that if God of War gameplay was a mandatory order for the game to be made, then you'd be better off adapting the gameplay to Knuckles than turning Sonic into a werewolf.

[Nepenthe]

Well, considering Sonic 4's gotten better reception than Unleashed, I wouldn't put it past people to be ridiculously more forgiving of Unleashed's flaws if Knuckles was indeed in the Werehog's stead, because yanno... Knuckles.

[Komodin]

Well, considering Sonic 4's gotten better reception than Unleashed, I wouldn't put it past people to be ridiculously more forgiving of Unleashed's flaws if Knuckles was indeed in the Werehog's stead, because yanno... Knuckles.

 

Seniority over sensibility... eh, it never really made sense to me. The average gameplay would still be average if the PC was a spiky egg-laying mole.

[Tornado]

It certainly wasn't an uncommon opinion (albeit a reactionary one, I'll accept) that if Werehog = Knuckles than it would be perfect. Not sure if it's a popular one anymore, though.

[Jack / Joker]

I've been wondering... is any of the DLC worth getting for this game? It's all so cheap (especially compared to '06, which actually gave you less content), and I'm kinda interested in trying some new stages since I never got any when the game came out...

[T-Min]

Well, I suppose I'll give my two cents.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Sonic Unleashed is still decent. It has easily the best atmosphere out of any Sonic game and the cartoony representations of real world locations are excellent. The environments are still beautiful even when compared to Generations, and the Pixar-esque humans are by far the most fitting for the series. Aside from bad voice acting and Chip being an ungodly nuisance, the story is also pretty okay as well.

 

While I prefer the Modern Sonic stages of Generations and, in many ways, Colors, the daytime stages are still tons of fun. They lack the platforming, variety, and great potential for exploration you'll find in the latter two games, but in exchange are amazingly well-built for what they're intended for: that is, speedrunning. Screw all y'all and your "boost to win" criticisms, getting a perfect run in these stages is fun and freaking satisfying. To be frank, there's a reason Unleashed is probably my most played PS3 game overall. Generations has been eating up my time in its place now, but I loved these stages and still do.

 

The hub worlds, I personally think, are pretty fantastic all things considered, and by far the best in the series. What would have been extremely helpful is an indicator as to which NPC's offer missions and side quests to complete and which offer useless advice and...the side quests tend not to have much of a tangible reward aside from a trophy or achievement, but they do add an interesting side to the game and a layer of depth I haven't seen in any other Sonic game before or since. And again, the atmosphere is great, and exploring the Entrance Stages does usually turn up a lot of cool goodies and even secret levels. If there's anything from Unleashed that I think should really be expanded upon, it's these hub worlds. Unleashed only scratched the surface on what they could do with these things, but alas, thanks to critical backlash, we will probably never see them again...

 

The Werehog...eh, yeah, I'd be lying if I said this wasn't what really dragged the game down for me. For the record, I don't start to despise these stages until around Shamar Night. The first couple, I think, are actually pretty okay, and even the later ones have some cool platforming, which is the one aspect to these stages I really do enjoy. The brawling crap, though...gets repetitive and dull really, really quickly and the combos don't do much to make it better. Oh, sure, there are lots of them, but there are three or four simple ones that you'll naturally find yourself spamming over and over again just because they work so well. On top of that...these stages just feel so...out of place, not just in the context of the series, but in the game period. Say what you will about SA2's handling of genre roulette - I'll admit, much as I enjoyed them, the mech shooting and treasure hunting weren't quite "Sonicy" - but at least they felt similar enough that switching between them in the game itself wasn't incredibly jarring. They all had the same control setup, at least - "A" jumps, "B" attacks, "A" twice does a sort of double-jump move, you get the picture. But the Werehog is a completely different game with completely different mechanics, completely different controls and a completely different style of platforming. The difference between the day and night levels were basically, well...the difference between night and day (hurr hurr), and it's kind of jarring to see this speedy, reflex-based WOOWOOFEELINGOOD game on the same disc as this slow-paced, acrobatic AARRROOOOO ADSIFHIDFHDSIO HAH HAH WHAM KA-POW PFFSSHH brawler. Not to mention that the Werehog levels can last up to 20 minutes or so, so they can kind of overtake the game if you don't do any optional daytime levels or anything like that. I dunno, the Werehog isn't objectively terrible or anything and I can kinda see why some people still enjoy it, but I...honestly don't.

 

But overall, I do think Unleashed's strengths outweigh its weaknesses. It's a good game to me and, in a way, it did kind of save the franchise, but I don't think it's really "great".

[Sketch Style]

A little late, but I'll get to it anyway.

 

Explain to me how this couldn't be done with the werehog. Give me specifics.

 

Alrighty then. Because the Wherehog wasn't representing an inner monstrosity. If it was, then it can be done. Neccessarily, I feel it couldn't because they just went with a "hulk-type" attitude. It wasn't really inspiring to me, as it's just the "beauty and the beast" syndrome. If it's just going to be that, then I don't see character development. Sonic would just over come it like normal, instead of meeting obstacles that would stop him in his tracks. The whole perspective was to just smash his way through, and it'll all be okay. This threw me off, because I honestly thought he was just going to be a mindless "hulk" character when I first saw the idea. Even with his normal conscience, it never mattered. I just thought it slowed down the plot, and would've made no difference had it been taken out of the plot. Now, I believe that the Wherehog was too exaggerated to find that proper execution, since he couldn't be brought to a powerless state. I also believe, if it were digging into an inner psyche, then it'd seem a little, off in my opinion. Now, you guys completely blew my statement out of proportion. In all honesty, I don't like the "Mr. Hyde" idea at all. I'm fine with just a good-old-fashioned Sonic adventure against Eggman.

How the hell is "being mistaken for someone else/a monster and being forced to see the world from, in Sonic's point of view, a snail's pace, all the while dealing with the potential thought that he might never be able to fully use his iconic speed again" uncreative? I don't mind the idea of checking out Sonic's inner psyche, but the way he is now, I doubt you'd find much of anything to talk about that wasn't already visible on the surface.

 

Also, Dark Sonic is hardly a paragon of creativity, or even a look into the inner psyche of Sonic. The first and ONLY time he ever showed up, he ended up basically being an evil jackass version of Sonic who cackled like a maniac and got covered in Shadowy stuff.

 

I doubt that. I believe that Sonic must've had some kind of past, or past event that traumatized him into becoming heroic, even though I know Sonic 1 just stated it was because he didn't want nobody hurting his friends. Nonetheless, though, I'm sure that was brought on from a past occurence, and it can allow a window deeper into the mind of Sonic. Now frankly, it's Sonic. I'd rather there be no wherehog, or dark side at all. I'm more for a straight Sonic game plot. Sonic Vs. Eggman. I know that's just as bland and repetitive as Mario, but more-or-less, I don't care.

 

Also, I was trying to state, I'd rather roll with a Dark Sonic-type idea. Does it have to be Dark Sonic? No, but I'm not one for slowing Sonic down with a hefty body change.

[Frogging101]

While we're talking about Chip, here are my thoughts on it:

A lot of people say Chip is really annoying. I don't know if you're talking about in-game or the cutscenes though. I haven't played the game (yet) but I've watched some of the cutscenes and I found Chip to be really cute and endearing, even funny at times. I also don't find his voice annoying. So I guess either you're talking about in-game or I just don't see what's so annoying about him.

[Nepenthe]

In-game, Chip's presence is minimal. He follows you silently in the populated hubs, he'll see you off at the beginning of the stages, and in the first few stages, he'll head a few text box hints. He is also Light Gaia, so he plays the Colossus and gets actual in-game dialogue. But considering he's the deuteragonist, that's a pretty low impact.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Don't get me wrong. My best choice would be the remove the Werehog completely and leave nothing remotely similar in its place. All I was saying is that if God of War gameplay was a mandatory order for the game to be made, then you'd be better off adapting the gameplay to Knuckles than turning Sonic into a werewolf.

I seriously doubt adapting the gameplay to Knuckles would be anything decent if everything else about the gameplay would remain: the numerous enemies with health bars, the tediousness and lengthiness in killing those enemies, the requirement of the game to kill those enemies. You're just giving the same boring gameplay a different coat of paint. Not to mention that Heroes already proved how problematic that would be when it came to the power formation in the team against enemies with lots of health or lots of enemies that took more than three hits to kill among other things, so you'd in fact be repeating that mess over again.

 

And really, the only thing that comes to my mind when people make this claim is that, because Knuckles is there, the game is good. And I'm sure I don't need to reignite my sentiments on how I feel about that particular belief after being the main instigator of the debacle since 2006-07.

 

I can say this, the global crisis that happened in Unleashed more than justified having Knuckles around to help, unlike his unnecessary appearance in Sonic 06. It justified everyone to be present for that matter, although given sentiments towards Sonic's friends, it's easy t to see why they didn't show. But in all honesty, it is sheer delusion to believe that GOW gameplay would have suited even Knuckles and use that for him to be around. I know he's a more fighting-oriented character, but the way it was implemented in Unleashed even without considering the Werehog's combos that were used is not one that would suit anything in this series. You'd be better off starting straight from scratch for something like this.

Edited December 23, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

So have the last pages or so been bitching about Chip?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So have the last pages or so been bitching about Chip?

Eh, pretty much. Some have been more lenient than suggesting he GTFO of Unleashed and to "stop hogging Tails' role" sentiment.

Edited December 23, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Frogging101]

In-game, Chip's presence is minimal. He follows you silently in the populated hubs, he'll see you off at the beginning of the stages, and in the first few stages, he'll head a few text box hints. He is also Light Gaia, so he plays the Colossus and gets actual in-game dialogue. But considering he's the deuteragonist, that's a pretty low impact.

Ah, okay then. So... What was so awful/annoying about him in the cutscenes? Like I said, I personally found him cute and endearing.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

So have the last pages or so been bitching about Chip?

CHIP IS AN ANNOYING POS THAT NEEDS TO BE GOTTEN RID OF FOR TAILS AND AMY BECAUSE HE STEALS THE SPOTLIGHT (although granted there is some truth about Tails and Amy being somewhat unnecessary/could be better used)

WEREHOG NEEDS TO BE REPLACED BY KNUCKLES BECAUSE KNUCKLES WILL AUTOMATICALLY MAKE THE GAME BETTER!(even though it's been proven/argued that it won't solve anything since the gameplay would still be drastically different; not to mention it would just reinforce the notion that "Sonic's friends are shitty and need to disappear!")

WEREHOG IS A POS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T EXPLORE SONIC'S PSYCHE AND SHOULD BE REPLACED BY GENERIC EVIL DARK SONIC SIDE! ALSO ALL PLOTS NEED TO BE ABOUT SONIC VS EGGMAN WITH NO VARIATION WHATSOEVER!(I don't see how Dark Sonic would be any better, considering his only appearance made him just an Evil Sonic. Also everyone knows my stance on story.)

 

Is the overall generalization.

Ah, okay then. So... What was so awful/annoying about him in the cutscenes? Like I said, I personally found him cute and endearing.

Probably his voice acting in the English Dub. I got used to it after a while, but it is kinda jarring at first.

[Nepenthe]

Ah, okay then. So... What was so awful/annoying about him in the cutscenes? Like I said, I personally found him cute and endearing.

 

I personally like Chip a lot so I have no idea. I guess the whole chocolate gag runs thin? Meh.