Is Shadow the Hedgehog really a bad game? Or was a underrated gem?

[Diogenes]

The difference is Sonic wasn't extremely jittery and high on caffeine

He might not have taken it as seriously, but at least he was his mellow yet cool self,

I'm sorry, are we looking at the same hedgehog?

By that, you're saying Sonic has been characterized as always being hyperactive and not taking things seriously at all, and not even calming down whatsoever until the absolute end? Then that's wrong still.

No, I'm saying he's an energetic, optimistic thrillseeker who treats even dangerous situations as an adventure.

Do you think any kind of movement qualifies as twitchy and hyperactive? Because freaking out over a little hop and some playful shadowboxing is really fucking bizarre.

[Xenos]

I'm sorry, are we looking at the same hedgehog?

No, I'm saying he's an energetic, optimistic thrillseeker who treats even dangerous situations as an adventure.

Do you think any kind of movement qualifies as twitchy and hyperactive? Because freaking out over a little hop and some playful shadowboxing is really fucking bizarre.

Fuck, I'd say we aren't.

The way Sonic acts in the entire game barring the end is really fucking bizarre for me considering the gravity of the situation.

And yeah, Sonic is mellow when you compare how he acts say, here.

Compared to how he acts in that one cutscene you constantly show. And I don't enjoy how you keep advocating as if I'm complaining about Sonic's fucking movements in the goddamn cutscene when I've said at least 3 times that it's because it's coupled with how Sonic acts in the game in general.

Yes, Sonic is a thrillseeker that treats dangers as adventure, but he knows when to get fucking serious, and in Shadow it just feels they tipped Sonic's cockyness far too heavy to one side and left the more serious Sonic way too far out and it just feels jarring. It doesn't feel nearly as unnatural in Sonic adventure 2 or Unleashed because the contrast isn't as big.

And..this I just remembered:

"HEH HEH HEH...Oh!" Just...what the fuck was that? Did Sonic just randomly giggle in mid-speech?

[SilJeff]

Let me give you my answer in Shadow the Hedgehog language (pointing out a major problem with it) :

Yes, this damn game is a bad damn game. The damn game has some damn gimmicks in it that don't belong dammit, such as the damn guns, the damn cussing, and the damn overall dark edginess.

The game sucks, has forgettable music, has a laughable story, etc. So no, it is nowhere near an underrated gem, although it isn't as bad as Sonic 06.

[Diogenes]

The way Sonic acts in the entire game barring the end is really fucking bizarre for me considering the gravity of the situation.

And yeah, Sonic is mellow when you compare how he acts say, here.

So Sonic having fun fighting evil aliens is off limits, but he's free to goof off and go get some ice cream while the world's split in pieces? Shouldn't he get serious about Eggman gaining the upper hand and causing widespread destruction? And a few levels later, shouldn't he get serious about the literal nightmare monsters roaming the streets?

Also, of course he's mellow in that scene. Nothing exciting is happening. He's not fighting aliens or robots, he's not jumping from helicopters and boarding through city streets, he's helping some amnesiac kid and treating him to ice cream.

Yes, Sonic is a thrillseeker that treats dangers as adventure, but he knows when to get fucking serious,

And he does, it's just that he doesn't consider the time at which to get serious to be when you think it should be. And it's really not a surprise that it comes at the end of the game, since that's usually when he gets serious, and it makes the most narrative sense to build up to it rather than have him be serious the whole time.

And..this I just remembered:

"HEH HEH HEH...Oh!" Just...what the fuck was that? Did Sonic just randomly giggle in mid-speech?

I can't and won't defend that particular line (it's pretty bizarre), but what's wrong with laughing?

[Xenos]

So Sonic having fun fighting evil aliens is off limits, but he's free to goof off and go get some ice cream while the world's split in pieces? Shouldn't he get serious about Eggman gaining the upper hand and causing widespread destruction? And a few levels later, shouldn't he get serious about the literal nightmare monsters roaming the streets?

Also, of course he's mellow in that scene. Nothing exciting is happening. He's not fighting aliens or robots, he's not jumping from helicopters and boarding through city streets, he's helping some amnesiac kid and treating him to ice cream.

And he does, it's just that he doesn't consider the time at which to get serious to be when you think it should be. And it's really not a surprise that it comes at the end of the game, since that's usually when he gets serious, and it makes the most narrative sense to build up to it rather than have him be serious the whole time.

I can't and won't defend that particular line (it's pretty bizarre), but what's wrong with laughing?

Alright, I'll give you that much.

But I was mainly pointing out how Sonic in ShTH just pulls the cockyness in a way that made it feel just, odd. From my general understanding there isn't a clear point for us to see when Sonic is truly serious or not besides at the end where we expect him to be, but anything before that should have some sort of balance there so Sonic isn't so serious he's boring and flat (06, Unleashed but that's debatable) or so cocky and cheesy it's just too much to handle (Heroes, ShTH, Colors but that's also debatable)

Also, with the whole thing between an Alien Invasion and the World Split apart...mostly everyone except the Sonic cast are treating it as an actual big deal, G.U.N. are basically engaging in warfare with an alien race to protect at least some parts of Earth. Shadow is just wandering around trying to find lost memories and the Sonic gang are just doing whatever and then some of them are actually trying to help...but then don't get any progress until Shadow shows up. It isn't only Sonic that feels a tad out of place with everything else at times, but the way he acts in cutscenes dredges him out more.

Nothing wrong with laughing, really. I'm just sort of bothered how they used it there.

[JaidynReiman]

Yes they did.

Not going to argue anything else, but people DID die during the initial attack. Yeah, they lampshaded it later when Central City was attacked, but right there they directly state "every city is reporting significant damages and casualties." They don't go into detail about it, but there WERE significant casualties during the initial attack.

Anyway, back to ranting with one another. I'll step away. I still reiterate that I liked Shadow, I don't think it was a "really" bad game, but it was incredibly mediocre and it certainly wasn't a gem of any sort.

[720]

I don't get why the tone of the game makes people hate it so much. I'd play the "It's a Shadow game not a Sonic game card" but that one is refuted easily! xD Well in my opinion all 3D Sonic games have stupid stories and dialogue, I just judge the game based on the gameplay. (Seriously the only enjoyment I get out of the cutscenes in Sonic games is laughing at them because they're so corny).

Edited December 11, 2012 by 720

[Diogenes]

But I was mainly pointing out how Sonic in ShTH just pulls the cockyness in a way that made it feel just, odd. From my general understanding there isn't a clear point for us to see when Sonic is truly serious or not besides at the end where we expect him to be, but anything before that should have some sort of balance there so Sonic isn't so serious he's boring and flat (06, Unleashed but that's debatable) or so cocky and cheesy it's just too much to handle (Heroes, ShTH, Colors but that's also debatable)

But who decides where the balance is? I thought he was reasonably balanced in ShtH considering how little we see him, perhaps leaning a bit towards flippant but not to the point of getting upset over.

Also, with the whole thing between an Alien Invasion and the World Split apart...mostly everyone except the Sonic cast are treating it as an actual big deal, G.U.N. are basically engaging in warfare with an alien race to protect at least some parts of Earth.

I think this really just underlines how silly it is to take Sonic to task for not being serious enough about things. Did ShtH try to spin things as being Very Serious Business? Yeah. And not that a real alien invasion wouldn't be, but a few years later we get a game where the Big Problem, if it were real, would certainly mean the end of all life on Earth, but daily life continues as normal, and most players don't seem very bothered by that. The way I see it, Sonic's being Sonic in ShtH, no matter what the grimdark tone has to say about it. That pretty much makes him one of the least terrible things about the game.

Yes they did.

Not going to argue anything else, but people DID die during the initial attack. Yeah, they lampshaded it later when Central City was attacked, but right there they directly state "every city is reporting significant damages and casualties." They don't go into detail about it, but there WERE significant casualties during the initial attack.

Technically casualties include the injured, not just the dead. Injuries we can be sure of, deaths we cannot.

[Komodin]

Okay, I'll probably be hated for this, but there is one thing I genuinely like about this game: the Lost Impact stage. I mean, yeah, the Hero mission is a bigger pain in the ass than it really should've been, but with its surprisingly beautiful theme... eh, I actually find it kinda tolerable. Also, having Maria as your partner was actually pretty neat, too.

[Crackerss]

I don't know why you guys are dwelling on Sonic's character specifically in this game. Everyone's character was pretty stupid, if not boring! : P

[720]

Okay, I'll probably be hated for this, but there is one thing I genuinely like about this game: the Lost Impact stage. I mean, yeah, the Hero mission is a bigger pain in the ass than it really should've been, but with its surprisingly beautiful theme... eh, I actually find it kinda tolerable. Also, having Maria as your partner was actually pretty neat, too.

Anyone who hates you for liking it is weird. Even the Hero mission was simple for me, and I love that stage.

[Xenos]

But who decides where the balance is? I thought he was reasonably balanced in ShtH considering how little we see him, perhaps leaning a bit towards flippant but not to the point of getting upset over.

I think this really just underlines how silly it is to take Sonic to task for not being serious enough about things. Did ShtH try to spin things as being Very Serious Business? Yeah. And not that a real alien invasion wouldn't be, but a few years later we get a game where the Big Problem, if it were real, would certainly mean the end of all life on Earth, but daily life continues as normal, and most players don't seem very bothered by that. The way I see it, Sonic's being Sonic in ShtH, no matter what the grimdark tone has to say about it. That pretty much makes him one of the least terrible things about the game.

Maybe so. I'm not largely upset over it, but sometimes it's just jarring as I said.

I mean it isn't the first time where people's reactions about events in the series are seriously out there, Unleashed being a huge example. Hell, even '06 has it considering that Who's The Captain mission, a lot of the town missions seem strange considering you'd think the populace would be worried about their royalty.

Even Colors has Sonic not taking threats so seriously, but then again it's just Eggman again, someone he's done that dance with quite a lot. But there is one instance where the Nega Wisp does spring him into action, and also when Tails is hypnotized (wasted potential too)

And it could be a good thing Sonic was being himself despite all hell breaking loose, but I think they could have cooled him off a bit still. The balance is there somewhat but seeing where he gets serious and then going back to some of the earlier scenes with him still doesn't mesh well to me.

But that's just my personal gripe with it, I think at this point we could agree to disagree. ..If it is even disagreeing at this point.

[T-Min]

I can't help but die a little inside when I see topics defending this game.

I mean, okay, I guess

makes a good point, but every other post or video or what-have-you I see defending this piece of garbage just presents...pretty asinine reasoning. "It focused on Shadow, therefore it is interesting despite the fact that it butchered his character." "It featured gunplay, therefore it was innovative." "The plot is a mess and has horrid dialogue, but it's still engaging." "It's trying too hard to be dark, but I enjoy the dark tone." "Everything sucked in some way, but I found it enjoyable; therefore, it was a good game." (Not all of these necessarily reflect things found in the OP; just defenses I've heard on this forum in general.)

I really hope I'm not coming off as a doucheface (though I suppose it's unavoidable), but...that's not how it works. You can't just say "I like this and this and that" without explaining why it's enjoyable, why it works, why it's well-done, why this game isn't a festering pile of garbage in spite of the massive, glaring, completely obvious flaws that even the game's defenders tend to acknowledge. When you go around in contradicting circles like that, it just makes you look...kind of ignorant. Not to say I'm arrogant enough to judge anyone's intelligence entirely based on their liking of this game, but if you're going to try to defend a game commonly held as one of the absolute worst ever made (or maybe that's just me but whatever) , you've got to be properly prepared.

Most people who try to defend Shadow aren't, and that leads me to believe that their ultimate reason for defending the game either amounts to flawed judgement or, worse, is nothing more than pure, blind fanboyism, be it for the character, the franchise, or both. Taken objectively, Shadow the Hedgehog sucks in many undeniable ways. So, I beg you, if you can't say more than "I like this", please stop defending an awful game. It makes Metal Sonic cry.

Yes it is. I've 100%ed both Heroes and ShtH twice

Hey.

Hey Dio?

Are you a total freaking masochist or do you actually love every Sonic game you claim to hate and you're just being a total tsundere about it?

When you say things like this, I can't help but question.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Chris-T-Mas: The Revenge

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Wait, is Dio serious? He 100% BOTH of those games?

Well, now we know why he's so tense all the time...

[Diogenes]

Are you a total freaking masochist or do you actually love every Sonic game you claim to hate and you're just being a total tsundere about it?

Closer to the former. I tend to 100% most games I buy, if I've got any chance of doing so, even if I don't really like them. And sometimes I get desperate for a Sonic fix, and sometimes I'm burnt out on the games I actually like and end up playing one of the crappier ones...and if I can 100% it reasonably (and sometimes even if it's a pain...) I'll usually end up doing that, too...

Although 100%ing ShtH the second time was partially to test a theory, if you could unlock expert mode before beating the game proper (you can; the two neutral ending boss fights share a ranking, but you need to beat them separately to unlock the last story, and nothing in the last story is ranked, so you can get all A-ranks without even unlocking the last story). Still, that was a sort of self torture to satisfy my own curiosity...

[Stritix]

I'm on the fence about it. It's mediocre. It has some decent ideas, but hell of a lot of bad ones too. The execution isn't as bad as Sonic 06 or the storybook games at least. But that still doesn't make the game good.

When it was released I had a lot of fun with it, but nowadays I can't play it for more than 10 minutes because of how awful the gameplay is.

At least we got some good tunes out of it such as 'I am all of me', which is one of my favourite songs in the series.

I'd give the game a 5/10 overall. No higher, no lower.

[Old dead account]

Fuck Central City. I mean some of the levels can be ok to just get through without the mssions but it's just so tedious and buggy as a whole

is shit gooby

[- Eternal Paradox -]

*Walks right in, completely ignoring what other people are ranting on about as normal*

Alright, addressing the topic title as usual, here's my take on it.

I first played Shadow a while ago, on my friend's PS2. I liked the game so much that I bought it of a neighbour.

Shadow is one of those games I will replay, quite a bit. The multiple storylines and missions help it with this reguard. I actually replay this game more than SA2.

The gunplay, while it may seem out of place, has never really bogged me down and if anything it serves as an additon to the gameplay.

The story is alright, if you don't take it too seriously.

So Shadow is (for me at least) fun.

Is it a hidden gem? I wouldn't say so. See, while it's fun and enjoyable, I don't think it'd really win any awards. I'd say it's on par with Sonic Heroes or Sonic Colours on terms of quailty. It's alright, but there are better Sonic games out there... Like Sonic Generations or SA1(no not SA2, that's on the same level).

That said, if you enjoyed Sonic Heroes or the adventure series, it's definitely worth a whirl.

*Please bear in mind that everything I just said is just my OPINION. It is not fact, merely the experence I had with the game. I do not intend to return to this forum post since I don't wish to see grumpy parade-rainers barging in screaming "IT'S A BAAA-AAD GAME! HERE'S WHY!!! I'M ALWAYS RI-IIGHT! BLAA-AA-RGH!" Thank you.*

And yes I am thinking of someone when I say that.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Paradise

[UltDevilDoom]

I liked the game, but it did have some problems with it.

I was disappointed with Sonic's character in the game.

Also, the chaos powers should have been used more frequently, seeing that you could only use them when a hero or dark bar was full. It would have been awesome to use them alongside the guns, which should not have been used as much.

These problems, along with a few others, did not stop me from liking the game. I enjoyed it.

Edited December 11, 2012 by UltDevilDoom

[Mangoaxe5]

It doesn't deseve all the hate that it gets. It's not the best game ever made but people overreact about some of the things in the game like the swearing. Shadow only says hell and damn those aren't really that bad.

I like the story. I like the new characters that it added to the Sonicverse canon. I love Black Doom and GUN Commander Tower.

I like the idea of Shadow using guns.

My problems with the game are that Shadow doesn't control as well as he should, and the "Last Story" makes 90% of the game pointless.

I give the game an 8/10. Personally I think it's better then Sonic Heroes and Sonic Colors.

[Vertekins]

I don't know why you guys are dwelling on Sonic's character specifically in this game. Everyone's character was pretty stupid, if not boring! : P

I dunno...whilst Sonic's character was exaggerated beyond all reason just to make him a larger contrast to Shadow than what he needed to be and makes him a complete joke who can hardly take things seriously despite it being firmly established before that he knows when to get serious, I say I did like the way Amy was depicted in the Cryptic Castle Hero Mission was pretty cool. She's depicted as being concerned for Cream, showing her big sister-like tendencies, she hilariously demands that Shadow kill the Death Leeches and makes funny comments on Eggman's castle and his robots.

Eggman's lines were cool too. Loved the way he gloats in the Circus Park mission and asks if Shadow is enjoying his theme park.

They stick out to me. Everyone else isn't very memorable because I'd be recounting their quirks if they were

[Dr. Crusher]

This game had the balls to kill Robotnik.

Non-canon pointers irrelevent, killing Robotnik.

Killing Robotnik.

By the main character, Son... er, Shadow no less. After the most laughable boss the doctor ever made.

I have So Bad It's Good fun with this game (so while I have sort-of fun with it, I disagree with the topic and believe it's reputation is widely deserved), but that is inexcusable.

[Dr. Homem]

My biggest gripe with the plot is that Shadow's origin needed no fixing whatsoever, yet they manage to add a bunch of unecessary shit for no reason. It was fine as it was in SA2: Gerald creates Shadow to make an ultimate lifeform. But no, it apparently also needs to have an alien blood donor, something about the GUN commander, and all those additional elements.

We already understood how Shadow was born; why overcomplicate it? Or, as the old saying goes, don't try fixing what is not broken.

[Nepenthe]

The additions to Shadow's background are about on par with elaborating on how the echidnas died, especially so when the character with whom the legends are most relevant towards eventually declared knowing what ultimately happened wasn't all the consequential in the end anyway.

[Covskin]

It's not the best game ever made but people overreact about some of the things in the game like the swearing. Shadow only says hell and damn those aren't really that bad.

People don't complain about the severity of the words. They complain about the desperate immaturity in using those words. "We need to look edgy! DAMN!" It was embarrassing.

I purposefully went into the game with low expectations - I guess I only actually got it in the first place because of franchise loyalty. And I 100% it too. Some of its faults have already been stated - slippery controls (worse than Heroes), being attacked by all sides regardless of your current loyalty, silly plot and tone, worthless and poorly controlled vehicles...

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the weapons. I have two main issues with the weapons.

1 - the "realistic" ones look ridiculous in the big-gloved hands of an anthromorphic black hedgehog. You can just about get away with the alien weapons, but otherwise, it looks ridiculous.

2 - the aiming. Shadow just auto-targets. In levels like Westopolis, where you have two separate missions of "kill aliens" and "kill humans", good luck sticking to only one of those. Especially when you come across the two in a gun battle against each other - its almost unavoidable to kill your allies. And as said, half the time you end up needing to kill them in self-defense anyway.

One other thing - the argument that "you don't have to use the guns". Yes, if you want to progress with as little rage-induced stress aneurysms as possible, you must use them. The homing attack does very little (bloody health-bars).

It is not the worst game in the series, and probably not quite as bad as everyone said at the time (or nowadays). But it is still by no stretch a good game.