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Lange

Is Shadow the Hedgehog really a bad game? Or was a underrated gem?

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People don't complain about the severity of the words. They complain about the desperate immaturity in using those words. "We need to look edgy! DAMN!" It was embarrassing.

I purposefully went into the game with low expectations - I guess I only actually got it in the first place because of franchise loyalty. And I 100% it too. Some of its faults have already been stated - slippery controls (worse than Heroes), being attacked by all sides regardless of your current loyalty, silly plot and tone, worthless and poorly controlled vehicles...

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the weapons. I have two main issues with the weapons.

1 - the "realistic" ones look ridiculous in the big-gloved hands of an anthromorphic black hedgehog. You can just about get away with the alien weapons, but otherwise, it looks ridiculous.

2 - the aiming. Shadow just auto-targets. In levels like Westopolis, where you have two separate missions of "kill aliens" and "kill humans", good luck sticking to only one of those. Especially when you come across the two in a gun battle against each other - its almost unavoidable to kill your allies. And as said, half the time you end up needing to kill them in self-defense anyway.

One other thing - the argument that "you don't have to use the guns". Yes, if you want to progress with as little rage-induced stress aneurysms as possible, you must use them. The homing attack does very little (bloody health-bars).

It is not the worst game in the series, and probably not quite as bad as everyone said at the time (or nowadays). But it is still by no stretch a good game.

Thanks for the opinion! I liked what you had to say and this caught me eye because I felt pretty much the same way that yes it is probably a little too hammered with the hate and critiscm and I agree that it is mediocre overall, but personally I found a lot to like about it in some ways because I went in with a open mind about it. Its easy to pick it apart if you don't appreciate the game for what it is.

Many more opinions ill try to respond to and thanks for everyone who posted i've read much of what was said. I found the characterization debate to be of interest as well and kinda brought my attention to something I didn't think much about.

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Judging it on gameplay alone, it's not the horror everyone makes it out to be IMO. The guns were unnecessary, but at least added some diversity. I always loved using the egg vacuum. There was also a lot of variety in the level design while keeping the core gameplay consistent. Sure, there were some big design flaws here and there, but I honestly prefer the gameplay to SA2.

What I hate the game for, and what I imagine everyone else does, is what the game represents. It's the point where the series became a victim of exploitation. It's what Modern Warfare 2 did to Call of Duty. It's what Resi 5 did to Resident Evil. By trying to reach out to the hardcore audience, Shadow did almost irreversable damage to the series' integrity. I understand that it's a spinoff, but even spinoffs stay at least relatively consistent with the tone. I admit that I enjoy this game as a guilty pleasure, but that doesn't change that it was a blatant and insulting cash in that ruined a great character. And funnily enough, I would have actually liked it more if they used human blood and actual swear words, because at least that would show some audacity.

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The additions to Shadow's background are about on par with elaborating on how the echidnas died, especially so when the character with whom the legends are most relevant towards eventually declared knowing what ultimately happened wasn't all the consequential in the end anyway.

I dunno. I guess we could chalk that up to poor planning and execution since it came off as extraneous and left field. Had they given more details in Heroes regarding Shadow that would properly lead up to ShTH, then people wouldn't think of the Black Arms as if Sonic Team were adding unnecessary junk to Shadow's backstory.

But even so, kinda find it hard not to see it as extra junk when we already knew why he was created and there weren't a any other questions beyond "How did he survive in SA2".

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I dunno. I guess we could chalk that up to poor planning and execution since it came off as extraneous and left field. Had they given more details in Heroes regarding Shadow that would properly lead up to ShTH, then people wouldn't think of the Black Arms as if Sonic Team were adding unnecessary junk to Shadow's backstory.

But even so, kinda find it hard not to see it as extra junk when we already knew why he was created and there weren't a any other questions beyond "How did he survive in SA2".

While I agree better writing always helps the situation, I don't think foreshadowing is the problem when someone is complaining that the mere act of adding things to Shadow's backstory when it was fine on its own was, in itself, an egregious flaw. Again, I consider that roughly on par with dedicating an entire game on explaining how and why a colony of echidnas Knuckles himself deemed trivial at the end of his campaign died out.

And as far as I know, the game didn't add anything in terms of the question "why was he created?" It merely elaborates on how he was created, as well as why the Eclipse Cannon even existed which I think is an interesting addition to the canon. After all, why would a man who believed in the power of science to bring happiness and peace to the world create a weapon of mass destruction of that magnitude in the first place?

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Answering topic question:

Shadow the Hedgehog, from what little I have played of it, is a generally enjoyable game on it's own that was unfortunately marred by it's sloppy attempt to be "mature" via swearing and through its rather botched attempt at fusing a realistic world design with an extremely cartoony and plastic-like anthro-animal character design, it's questionable story that is about as mysterious as my chihuahua on steroids, and its rather stiff controls.

If it was just some random 3rd person shooter platformer that just happened to include anthro-animals, I don't think anyone would have cared all that much about it. But considering what it is, a Sonic game, and the backlash towards it has justification.

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They stick out to me. Everyone else isn't very memorable because I'd be recounting their quirks if they were tongue.png

I can agree with all of those, actually. Though, now that I think about it, Shadow also seemed a bit out of character to me in this game. At the end of Heroes and SA2 (if you wait long enough in the latter, he calls Sonic the "real ultimate lifeform), Shadow really seemed to be completely (maybe even over) confident in whatever Sonic could do. It helps that they were also the first two games he was in.

In this game, it's like he just got incredibly grumpy and Sonic is just trying to annoy him; which is a really funny idea if they were actually going for that.

Edited by Iggy

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While I agree with most points having been made I though the music was great as usual and I love the soundtrack as it is different from other sonic OSTs and adds more darker and heavier sounding music to Sonic soundtrack collection). And I absolutely love the CGi videos in the game.

I also enjoyed the Devil Doom battle. I still think it's pretty good.

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THIS MAN. THIS.

Now I had a propensity for ragging-on about how Sonic was Flanderized in Colours but this game....this game took the frikkin' biscuit and is far worse than Colours ever was when it came to exaggerating Sonic's quirks and consuming his character. Sonic's stupid hyper-excitability is Flanderization ramped up to eleven and was clearly a means of making him a bigger contrast to Shadow than what he needed to be.

We already knew that Sonic was the confident optimist who is friendly and cheerful and was set apart from Shadow because of that. We don't need to see it epitomized in the form of him jumping up and down, making mock punches and having him act like he's broken into his nearest Don Fachio's and eaten all of the specialty Chili Dogs in there.

 

 

Did it ever occur to anyone that since this game is told from Shadow's perspective, that he kind of sees Sonic as an idiot...

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This game had the balls to kill Robotnik.

Non-canon pointers irrelevent, killing Robotnik.

Killing Robotnik.

By the main character, Son... er, Shadow no less. After the most laughable boss the doctor ever made.

I have So Bad It's Good fun with this game (so while I have sort-of fun with it, I disagree with the topic and believe it's reputation is widely deserved), but that is inexcusable.

 

Eggman also died in 06, he and Elise were (apparently) killed by a mountain his large ship crashed into. Kinda strange, you'd think he would had noticed/notified that the ship was approaching/close to it. Then again, why was he flying at a low altitude in the first place?

 

 I dunno, really.

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Simple: inhumanly awful writing.

 

Also, Eggman didn't die due to:

 

I) The fact that before Sonic sees the Egg Carrier crash, Sonic (via time travel) has just beaten the Egg Wyvern and sent Eggman going down. The guy probably survived impact or escaped death when the Last Story begins and Solaris fucks time.

 

II) The whole game never happening in the end anyway.

Edited by Santa Attaxx

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I genuinely liked Shadow the Hedgehog from a gameplay perspective. It completely refined everything from Sonic Heroes, especially as far as rail-switching goes! Still they chose to use those horrible, sparkly-shining models :|

 

It was one of the few Sonic-related games I could keep playing again and again, trying out different patterns to unlock one of the many many many stories.

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I genuinely liked Shadow the Hedgehog from a gameplay perspective. It completely refined everything from Sonic Heroes, especially as far as rail-switching goes!
Rail switching is pretty much the only thing they refined. It's still the same slippery, awkward mess otherwise.

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Did it ever occur to anyone that since this game is told from Shadow's perspective, that he kind of sees Sonic as an idiot...

 

No because it's never even vaguely hinted at.

 

Sonic's just Flanderized to make him epitomize the exact polar opposite of his dark rival when we've been shown before that nothing about Sonic's personality and outlook needs to be exaggerated to make him contrast with Shadow.

 

Take this cutscene for example. Shadow asks Sonic who he is and in one line coupled with the tone he says it in coupled with a smile, he defines himself as different from Shadow;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKwWnNLfgmQ

 

Sonic is calm, amiable and greatly in-character. We don't see him acting obnoxiously, we don't see him acting like he's under the influence of a sugar rush and he takes the situation in stride.

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Okay I know theres been a big discussion about Sonics personality in games and in Shadow the Hedgehog and that can continue if you all like and been very interesting to follow that but being the thread creator i'd like to throw something else out on the table to be discussed.

 

I thought with the potential this game had overall in my opinion that someday if it was ficed up and redressed as some remake or directors cut that would be awsome. If they rework the mechanics and level designs and make the missions more playable and less frustrating it could actually be a lot better. Also redo the plot progression and cutscenes to be less disjointed and smoother during the story progressions as well. Don't get me wrong to really make this game great or even moderately improved it would take a LOT of work and sega has never remade a game like that before other than some minor additions and probably wouldn't happen. However one who likes the game myself and sees the missed unrefined potential can only wish.

 

What are your ideas for a remake or redress of Shadow someday?

Edited by Lange

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Take this cutscene for example. Shadow asks Sonic who he is and in one line coupled with the tone he says it in coupled with a smile, he defines himself as different from Shadow;

 

*snip*

 

Sonic is calm, amiable and greatly in-character. We don't see him acting obnoxiously, we don't see him acting like he's under the influence of a sugar rush and he takes the situation in stride.

 

What are your ideas for a remake or redress of Shadow someday?
1. Don't do it.
2. Don't do it.
3. Don't do it.
 
What is the deal with the obsession with wanting Sega to "fix" terrible games?

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How about this:

 

1. Tone down the over-the-top darkness.

 

2. Don't make gaps in Shadow's backstory to fit in aliens.

 

Otherwise, let it rest in peace.

 

Okay well obviously if you dislike the game which Santa you have made apparent, you aren't going to really have positive ideas about improving the game. Basically what you said there was just vague because you dislike it.  I didn't mean changing the core of the game either I mean't improving structural things like levels and such not the entire theme and foundation of the game or else it might as well not be Shadow the Hedgehog and something else. And like it or not the information in this game about Shadows backstory is canon to the games and here to stay and I doubt sega is going to contradict essentially a entire background story of a character just because the fans don't like it.

 

I know i've gotten a lot of heat for even showing interest and actually being positive about this game but I stand by it and don't think that everything has to be negative because in reality its not.

 

Its fine if you hate the game but i'd rather there be more elaborate responses that actually have nice ideas. Thanks

 

1. Don't do it.
2. Don't do it.
3. Don't do it.
 
What is the deal with the obsession with wanting Sega to "fix" terrible games?

 

Who said obsession? I never said that it was just an idea. There is no "deal" unless your taking something else from what others opinions are and just assuming. Maybe I feel that Shadow could be good with some improvements and people are entitled to like the game you know I being one fan who does appreciate its positives and just wish for a little more.

Edited by Lange

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Who said obsession? I never said that it was just an idea. There is no "deal" unless your taking something else from what others opinions are and just assuming.

I'm talking in general; no matter how bad the game, whenever it gets discussed and rightfully bashed, someone brings up the idea of remaking it. It's almost inevitable.

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Oh look.

 

- Not OOC.

- Not exaggerated.

- In-line with Sonic's brand of badassery.

- Still has him taking the situation in stride.

 

No...I don't see where Sonic's character was Flanderized here to make him exemplify Shadow's polar opposite down to the absolute wire.

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So why is Sonic in ShtH any more OoC for getting excited.

 

Because it's needlessly exaggerated in a clear-as-day attempt at defining him from Shadow and drumming-in the concept of them being polar opposites without any subtlety whatsoever when he was defined perfectly well from Shadow in SA2 with subtlety and whilst staying true to his personality. In SA2, he held contempt for Shadow's boasting of his ULF status ("True power? Yeah right!" - See the story recap screen for the final boss of the Hero Side story), he knew when to take the situation seriously, he retained his propensity for remaining cool and collected when faced by trying situations most of the time.

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