Sonic & Knuckles - too unfair

[BlondeHedgehog]

Okay, since Lava Reef zone has just screwed me over yet again, I just thought I'd come here to vent. Does anyone else feel that Sonic & Knuckles is just too unfair, to the point where it's really frustrating? It seems that no matter how many times you play through it, you're always surprised by the same enemies and traps suddenly jumping out at you. You've literally got to memorise each part of every zone in order to avoid this, and even at that it's still a pain. (Especially Mushroom Hill zone, which always gets me at the same parts, over and over). 

I've been playing my Sonic Classic Collection on the DS, and it's only when compared to the other classic Sonic games (which are relatively less frustrating than S&K) that I've noticed how annoying S&K can be. Incidentally, it was the first Sonic game I ever played. I understand now why I wasn't such a big fan of Sonic as a kid, and didn't become one until I played Sonic 2 some two years later.  

Sorry if the topic seems a bit pointless, I just had to rant for a bit. I probably just suck at Sonic games, though I am good at most non-classic Sonics, and can state with pride that I've completed Sonic and The Secret Rings 100%, which is the hardest (and most infuriating, time-consuming) thing I ever had to do........ 

If anyone is wondering (which you aren't), the blonde hedgehog is a species of hedgehog native to the Channel Island of Alderney. It's very rare. 

Edited December 18, 2012 by BlondeHedgehog

[Vertekins]

...Nah, Sonic Advance 3 is the most 'unfair' Sonic game IMO because it's level layouts were designed to piss you off (Ocean Base! Cyber Track!...rah!) and most levels are teeming with real banes to speed. I found that S&K had some of the best level design in the entire series, ironically Lava Reef being a stand-out case.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Vertekins

[Diogenes]

Considering it's basically the endgame of Sonic 3, I think it's difficulty is pretty reasonable. Yeah, it's got some of the longest and hardest stages in the Genesis Sonics, but that only makes sense given their position, and I don't think there's anything particularly unfair about them (although the endless loop of slides in Sandopolis 2 can trip up a lot of people). You just gotta be a bit more careful and/or be willing to eat a hit from time to time.

[Da Blu Hedgie]

I'm sorry blonde, but you're wrong, it's supposed to be difficult you just eventually learn the level...and how do I know this I have the same collection for ds, it's the screen limitations that kill you, but other than that it's a very solid port (minus no save states/soft reset like sonic mega collection and ultimate genesis collection).

[Dr. Robot-egg-nik-man]

I love S&K's level design, to be honest. The only cheap moments were in Mushroom Hill (some enemies popped up out of nowhere)

[BlondeHedgehog]

You're all insane. 

[a mystery]

H-hey, what happened to the good things we know, like understanding and respecting others opinions?

Edited December 18, 2012 by Can of Nothing

[Diogenes]

You're all insane. 

Man you 100%ed Secret Rings, S&K is cake compared to that.

[Old dead account]

I think that Metropolis Zone from Sonic 2 comes much closer to being unfair because of dem badniks in odd places as well as scrap brain. Sonic & Knuckles though, it's technically the later half of Sonic 3, which was all supposed to be one huge game that couldn't on one cartridge. So I wouldn't be Surprised if S&K is actually a bit EASIER than its levels were supposed to be originally due to having been sold as a standalone game. I do think it was pretty freakin' hard the first time I played through it to the point that I couldn't even pass Mushroom Hill. On the other 3 games I could pass zone 1 easily but I'd get stuck in Zone 2's act 2 every time (Hydrocity's wall of death, Chemical Plant's water, Marble zone's...Marbleyness) but I couldn't even pass Mushroom Hill on S&K for a while but once I did, I didn't have too much trouble with the rest of the game, at least not as much as I thought and same with the other 3 games, once I passed Zone 2 act 2 I didn't struggle with the rest as much as I had expected. Yeah, that barrel of doom's got nothing on me.

[Kuzu]

Well it IS the second half of one whole game, so its difficulty is kind of justified.

[MegasonicZX]

...Nah, Sonic Advance 3 is the most 'unfair' Sonic game IMO because it's level layouts were designed to piss you off (Ocean Base! Cyber Track!...rah!) and most levels are teeming with real banes to speed. I found that S&K had some of the best level design in the entire series, ironically Lava Reef being a stand-out case.

sonic advance 3 is unfair to you!? sonic advance 2 is the cheapest thing ever and advance 3 actually seems a whole lot less springy on random fall downs and enemies next to advance 2, especially *shudder* the final level.

[BlondeHedgehog]

Man you 100%ed Secret Rings, S&K is cake compared to that.

 

You would think so, wouldn't you? I can't understand it myself, I just always seem to struggle with S&K. I think it's a psychological thing. As an 8 year old kid and inexperienced gamer, its difficulty took me by surprise and caught me off guard. Subconsciously, this made me relate every other challenge and problem in my childhood (like my alcoholic dad and his unstable temperament), to losing my rings in Sonic & Knuckles. Still to this day, whenever I have a problem, Sonic & Knuckles is in some way the cause of it. It haunts and intimidates me, and will always do so until I complete it without using a save function (which, mercifully is available in the Classic Collection). 

It's the reason for my self-esteem issues, especially when I'm talking to the opposite sex. It's like they know... when they look into my eyes, they know, and they're judging me for it. 

 

I like fish. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

I've been playing my Sonic Classic Collection on the DS,

 

Theres your problem.

 

Sonic Classic Collection isn't designed to run on a standard DS, it's best to play it on a DSi/XL. This is due to *insert technical babble that I don't understand,* and even then it's not a great version of the game to play.

 

But if your DS is an original or a DS Lite, chances are you're going to run into problems.

[Da Blu Hedgie]

Man you 100%ed Secret Rings, S&K is cake compared to that.

I didn't even 100% complete it, in fact I've never 100% completed a sonic game, except for colors (ds ,wii) and generations (360).

[BlondeHedgehog]

Theres your problem.

 

Sonic Classic Collection isn't designed to run on a standard DS, it's best to play it on a DSi/XL. This is due to *insert technical babble that I don't understand,* and even then it's not a great version of the game to play.

 

But if your DS is an original or a DS Lite, chances are you're going to run into problems.

What if I play it on my 3DS? I only have a DS Lite...

[Da Blu Hedgie]

Theres your problem.

 

Sonic Classic Collection isn't designed to run on a standard DS, it's best to play it on a DSi/XL. This is due to *insert technical babble that I don't understand,* and even then it's not a great version of the game to play.

 

But if your DS is an original or a DS Lite, chances are you're going to run into problems.

...well that makes no sense, but I played on a dsi, but I have yet to see what it's like on 3ds, colors and super mario 64 were fine w/sm64 being enhancd w/a real analog stick

Edited December 18, 2012 by Ultimate Lifeform Claus

[Badnik Mechanic]

What if I play it on my 3DS? I only have a DS Lite...

 

I've no idea.

 

Only when the game was first released, those people who had both a DS and a DSi said that when played using a DSi the game ran better with a lot less slowdown and overall problems. Theres one post here at Retro which speculates the reason why,

 

If it'll work better on the 3DS is a very good question since I doubt anyone has compared the 3DS to the DS/DSi when it comes to this game.

[BlondeHedgehog]

I've no idea.

 

Only when the game was first released, those people who had both a DS and a DSi said that when played using a DSi the game ran better with a lot less slowdown and overall problems.

The slowdown in the game is terrible, I have to admit. The visuals are a bit off as well, particularly Green Hill zone, where trees and other objects are transparent for some odd reason. 

Edited December 18, 2012 by BlondeHedgehog

[Shane]

The 3DS runs the game the same way a DSi would run it due to it playing in the system's DSi mode.

[LunarEdge]

Even as a young child I never found S3&K hard. At times I would rush myself and end up killing myself quite a bit on DeathEgg Zone, but that's about it............ Good times

[Straw Hat]

Ummm... no...? Lol.

By then, I would have already gone Super or Hyper Sonic (3 & Knuckles) and blazed past all that lava. Sorry Blonde, think you just need practice..... or game breaking Emeralds... XD

If you wanna talk frustrating, then Sonic Advance 3.... even if you DO practice and learn the levels, you will still get hit. That game's level design is just unfairly put together with all the random spike and enemy placement.

[MizukiMoon]

I'll admit, Sonic & Knuckles is hard and I never got very far in it at all until the save feature was available in Sonic Classic Collection which allowed me to continue (for years, I would get game over on Flying Battery Zone Act 2's boss). However, it IS a carry on from Sonic 3 so naturally it's going to be harder, like most games are as you get further into the game. In my opinion, it's not unbearably hard with Sonic Classic Collection thanks to the save feature, try playing it on the Mega Drive!

[Solkia]

Sonic and Knuckles is hard? The only 2 stages I'd call hard are Death Egg and Sandopolis act 2.

[Coral]

Hmm. I never really found Lava Reef to be all that hard myself. The music is so soft and nice, and the only really troublesome obstacle is the jumping spikes imo. A nice break from the tediousness of Sandopolis definitely. I'd recommend always carrying a fire shield at all times whenever getting there if you don't already have all of the emeralds, and it'll make the stage much less of a hassle. If you're looking for a really fun time, I suggest playing as Knux. It's like everything is just getting ready to flank you to kingdom come with him haha.

[Jimbo]

I think that Metropolis Zone from Sonic 2 comes much closer to being unfair because of dem badniks in odd places as well as scrap brain. 

I was thinking this too. Metropolis Zone has a bunch of unavoidable badniks that kill the flow of the level.

 

Outside of two levels, those being Sandopolis 2 and Death Egg 2, Sonic and Knuckles is not a very difficult game. Sonic 2, for example, is a much less forgiving game than Sonic and Knuckles is. 

 

by the way fuck that second one, seriously.