Super Mario general topic

[Emmett L. Brown]

I always actually preferred Yoshi's Story to Yoshi's Island.  Probably mostly because I played Story first, but also more objectively because I preferred the more traditional health system.

 

Both are fantastic games for very different reasons, though I consider neither part of the main Mario series, whether the american release added a "Super Mario World 2" subtitle or not.

Really? I deleted Yoshi's Story after the second chapter, upon realising it only took 6 levels to beat the game and each level was no longer than any one of the 52 in Yoshi's Island. I also found it too easy to be engaging.

 

But if the game picked up after chapter 2, or I should've given it more of a chance I'd like to know. What's the appeal of Yoshi's Story?

[JezMM]

Really? I deleted Yoshi's Story after the second chapter, upon realising it only took 6 levels to beat the game and each level was no longer than any one of the 52 in Yoshi's Island. I also found it too easy to be engaging.

 

But if the game picked up after chapter 2, or I should've given it more of a chance I'd like to know. What's the appeal of Yoshi's Story?

 

Like Lylatwars/Starfox 64 or Shadow The Hedgehog, multiple playthroughs are encouraged.  While you only ever play 6 at a time to reach the credits, there are 24 rather large levels in all, and in order to play them all you'll need to find all three giant hearts on each stage, which usually requires venturing further than what eating every fruit you find along the way will allow.  It's also got a heavy focus on score attack - instead of just eating every fruit you see willy-nilly, eating multiple fruits of the same kind in a row and eating your colour Yoshi's favourite fruit will multiply your score, as will defeating enemies in the more difficult ways (i.e. using eggs rather than jumping on heads to kill many enemies at once, and using ground pounds to set Shy Guys to have the same colour as your Yoshi).

 

Then of course there is the optional challenge of beating every level by eating 30 melons, rather than assorted fruit.  There are ONLY 30 melons on each level, and many are hidden behind minigames and tough puzzles, which really require you to explore every nook and cranny of the level.  It's one of the most difficult challenges in the Mario franchise, I only ever managed to do it on a couple of levels as a kid.

Edited December 28, 2012 by JezMM

[Emmett L. Brown]

Am I the only one who played all the way through both Super Mario Galaxy games without ever discovering that Mario has a homing attack? If you stomp while you're in the spin animation Mario does a fancy air flip and homes in on any enemy in the vicinity, which is pretty darn useful.

 

Did I miss a Toad or a Luma telling you about that move or is it something players are expected to discover for themselves?

[SilentDoom]

3D Land is one of my favorite games because like Jez said, almost every level had a gimmick never done in a Mario game prior to it, and it has by far one of the best final bosses in the series. I've never played either Galaxy title, due to financial reasons mostly, but I'll get around to playing it eventually. As for the "New" series...ok, that I'll admit is getting a bit stagnant, but the games at least try to add new elements within the levels themselves.

 

It's funny, because the actual matter of fact is almost every gimmick in 3D Land had been done by the Galaxy games already.  Either that or Mario Bros 3.

[JezMM]

Am I the only one who played all the way through both Super Mario Galaxy games without ever discovering that Mario has a homing attack? If you stomp while you're in the spin animation Mario does a fancy air flip and homes in on any enemy in the vicinity, which is pretty darn useful.

 

Did I miss a Toad or a Luma telling you about that move or is it something players are expected to discover for themselves?

I think it is just a game secret yeah. I don't recall ever being told.

It's funny, because the actual matter of fact is almost every gimmick in 3D Land had been done by the Galaxy games already.  Either that or Mario Bros 3.

Are you really considering the gimmicks though? Let me guess, the first ones that come to mind would be the Flip-Swap platforms and the Beat Block platforms right?

Fact is though they were quite different in 3D Land. Flip Swap platforms changing EVERY time you jump rather than when you (optionally) spin in the middle of a jump makes for a very different challenge and makes you have to think a lot more carefully about when and where you jump.

And on Galaxy, the Beat Block platforms were just two sets that alternated, whereas here they come in sets of three, always grouped together (with different patterns depending on the level).

I know these might be small changes but they do make the difference between "lazy rehash oh they just copy and pasted galaxy gimmicks in" and, well, something new that plays different to what you've played before in 3D Mario.

[Ducktor Naldush]

Since this is the Super Mario topic, there is something I was always confused about. Thought of asking this in a status update, but it seems that many people don't know if Mario Galaxy 2 was a sequel or a reboot story-wise of Super Mario Galaxy.

Y'know, with Rosalina featured only in the ending, telling a story to the lumas

[Emmett L. Brown]

Since this is the Super Mario topic, there is something I was always confused about. Thought of asking this in a status update, but it seems that many people don't know if Mario Galaxy 2 was a sequel or a reboot story-wise of Super Mario Galaxy.

Y'know, with Rosalina featured only in the ending, telling a story to the lumas

Well, the ending of Super Mario Galaxy seemingly featured

the entire universe being swallowed up by a supermassive black hole, then the Big Bang happening all over again

and because the Star Festival only happens once every 100 years it would be unlikely for Super Mario Galaxy 2 to take place a century after the first Galaxy.

 

So I think it's a reboot. The events of Super Mario Galaxy are happening for the first time in SMG2, with the main difference being that this time

Bowser stole Rosalina's entire ship instead of just its stars

[Ducktor Naldush]

Well, the ending of Super Mario Galaxy seemingly featured

the entire universe being swallowed up by a supermassive black hole, then the Big Bang happening all over again

and because the Star Festival only happens once every 100 years it would be unlikely for Super Mario Galaxy 2 to take place a century after the first Galaxy.

 

So I think it's a reboot. The events of Super Mario Galaxy are happening for the first time in SMG2, with the main difference being that this time

Bowser stole Rosalina's entire ship instead of just its stars

So Mario pulled a Sonic '06 and Galaxy 1 technically didn't happened because the events of that game happened in the universe before the one Mario is living in?

Yeah, Galaxy's ending confuses me more than the fact that there were 2 Luigis in that game

[super saiyan weegee]

If that was the case, it would render every Mario game before non-cannon.

[Emmett L. Brown]

If that was the case, it would render every Mario game before non-cannon.

I don't understand why it would.

 

Super Mario Galaxy 2 starts at the same point in time as Super Mario Galaxy. Everything prior to that point still happened.

[super saiyan weegee]

I know, I was responding to Nald saying

So Mario pulled a Sonic '06 and Galaxy 1 technically didn't happened because the events of that game happened in the universe before the one Mario is living in?

The way he put it would suggest that EVERYTHING that happened before the events of Galaxy 1 technically wouldn't have happened. If that's not what he meant, then my mistake.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Have a Haden New Year!

[Ducktor Naldush]

I know, I was responding to Nald saying

So Mario pulled a Sonic '06 and Galaxy 1 technically didn't happened because the events of that game happened in the universe before the one Mario is living in?

The way he put it would suggest that EVERYTHING that happened before the events of Galaxy 1 technically wouldn't have happened. If that's not what he meant, then my mistake.

What I meant was that since Galaxy 2 happened instead of Galaxy 1, the events of the latter didn't actually took place in the current timeline. Everything before it would actually be the same, though.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Nail-it Nald

[Old dead account]

So then Mario Galaxy 1 is noncanon then?

Also, SMB2US is just a dream and SMB3 is just a stage play.

[super saiyan weegee]

and SMB3 is just a stage play.

That's never actually been officially confirmed, by the way, it's just a theory. A very good one, but not a confirmed one.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Have a Haden New Year!

[JezMM]

Shigsy himself said he considers the entire Mario canon to just be a series of stories played by "actors", sort of like The Muppets etc.  Which is why Mario and Bowser can be arch nemesises in one game and then play tennis together in the next.

 

It's not like official or anything but yeah.

[Emmett L. Brown]

I gotta agree with the people who say New Super Mario Bros 2 is a little too easy and not particularly inventive compared to other Mario titles. But if there's one thing worth bragging about it's the Ghost Mansions in the game. The mansion levels always have higher expectations for me when it comes to clever level design, puzzles and secrets, and the NSMB2 mansions definitely don't disappoint.

[JezMM]

I gotta agree with the people who say New Super Mario Bros 2 is a little too easy and not particularly inventive compared to other Mario titles. But if there's one thing worth bragging about it's the Ghost Mansions in the game. The mansion levels always have higher expectations for me when it comes to clever level design, puzzles and secrets, and the NSMB2 mansions definitely don't disappoint.

 

One or two ghost house secret exits were a little too dickish for my taste and goddamn the World 6 one appears WAY too often on the Star Pack in Coin Rush (not that I ever really play random packs anymore since the DLC).  I know what you mean though.

 

NSMBU has some fantastic ones too.

[Emmett L. Brown]

One or two ghost house secret exits were a little too dickish for my taste and goddamn the World 6 one appears WAY too often on the Star Pack in Coin Rush (not that I ever really play random packs anymore since the DLC).  I know what you mean though.

 

NSMBU has some fantastic ones too.

As a rule the secret exit in a ghost house should be really hard to find, since just finding the regular exit is a puzzle in itself half the time, but invisible blocks with climbing vines that have no coins or other suspicious scenery to hint at their presence are indeed dickish.

 

World 2 ghost house, in the middle of the Boohemoth stretch, I'm looking at you.

[ChaosXVI]

I've been replaying through Galaxy 2 a whole bunch today, and now it's time for us to discuss a truly imposing question:  How does Nintendo top Super Mario Galaxy 2 in a way that doesn't feel like a massive downgrade or scale reduction, yet isn't just a rehash of the Galaxy formula?  This is of course primarily relevant to 3D Mario, as much has already been made of the stagnation of 2D Mario.

 

Honestly, I don't think it's possible.  There is absolute no way I can imagine Super Mario Galaxy 2 being topped.  You can argue whether 1 or 2 is superior all you like, but the overall point is that anything outside of Galaxy 3 will be of considerably less scale, and a Galaxy 3 merely delays the problem...My case for this point is in 3DLand, which to me just feels like Galaxy-lite, despite all the charm of it adhering so strictly to 2D Mario rules, it still felt like a step back.  Though I still thoroughly enjoyed it.

Edited January 14, 2013 by ChaosXVI

[JezMM]

3D Land was never going to be a Galaxy topper, but then it was never trying to be.

 

The only thing that set Galaxy apart from previous games REALLY was that they used the complete freedom of aesthetic to do literally whatever gameplay they could come up with.  3D Land did the same thing but without the sense of spectacle (with the exception of choice moments, namely the final boss).  They chose functionality of fanciness in a very big way.

 

And... basically, I don't think the space setting is required to have spectacle.

 

 

For what it's worth though, I think 3D Land was a Galaxy and Galaxy 2 beater in terms of pure concentrated fun.  Both Galaxies, especially the first, had plenty of "filler"-ish missions and 3D Land had none of that.  Was pure straightforward fun.  And the Star Coins, while not strictly the same kind of gameplay, did reward exploration and experimentation in a way very similar to Mario 64 and Sunshine.

[Diogenes]

I wonder if it might be time to go open world again. Something more SM64ish than the Galaxies.

[Gregzilla]

I wonder if it might be time to go open world again. Something more SM64ish than the Galaxies.

 

I think I'd like to see this.  The Galaxy games had amazing controls, great presentation, and brilliant platforming.  Now I'm curious to see how they can apply these improvements to a more exploration-based game like 64.

 

I'd generally say Galaxy blows 64 out of the water, but I do enjoy the exploration in 64.  It gave the game a sense of discovery that is not as apparent in a linear game.  Personally, I think my ideal Mario game would have a level selection with both linear courses and big open worlds.  One world could be a linear romp  a la Galaxy, while another could be a big open area to wander around a la 64.

[Conando]

Not really sure that would work out unless they make the worlds more centered around platforming. 64 was a great game but, it didn't really feel like a Mario game in comparison to the rest of the series. At least not until Rainbow Ride and Tick Tock Clock.

[Diogenes]

It felt pretty Marioy to me. I mean, I have generally come down on the side of the more linear style of 3D Mario, but I think 64 is just as valid a Mario experience.

[JezMM]

I will say out of all the Mario games I find Sunshine the least Mario-y.  It's so unfocused on what it wants to be.  Mario 64 is focused on exploring and discovering, Galaxy/3D Land is focused on getting to the end of the level, and Sunshine... kinda lets you explore but unless you're planning from the start to get 100% completion all exploration outside of the current episode's goal is utterly worthless.

 

And then there's the fact that all the traditional Mario "pure" platforming gameplay is thrown out for water pack stuff in the vast majority of the game of course.  It doesn't gel with Mario platforming as smoothly as Mario 64's huge flexible variety of jumps, or Mario Galaxy's spin did.