Anyone else sick of Super Sonic final boss fights?

[Sunset]

This seems to have become a huge staple of Sonic games. Fight an epic boss at the end of the game as Sonic, with controls and a game style that is never used at any other point in the games. The game that started this off was Sonic 3AK (which I will now refer to as Sonic 3 for short). Everyone seems to love the Doomsday, I think mostly because it's rather cool and was never done before that point. But, would you say that the Doomsday Boss was the most epic and famous MegaDrive boss? I wouldn't and I don't think many others would. I think that reward would go to:

 

Death Egg Robot

 

Yeah, you all know who it is. It's that legendary Death Egg Robot! I remember getting repeatedly destroyed by this fella and having my MegaDrive overheat as I played for hours to simply reach the boss. In hindsight the boss was probably way too difficult, but to me it seems like a much more satisfying than the Doomsday boss. I think most others would agree with me, considering the boss is generally considered very iconic. Yet this style of boss has almost entirely disappeared. 

 

Adittionally, I think hardcore Sonic 3 fans would consider this boss to be the 'true' final boss: 

 

 

The Big Arm

 

This fellow was pretty hard too! Much harder than the Doomsday Zone boss! I think everyone who has fought the Sonic 3 alone variation remembers how it destroys Super Sonic.

 

So here's the topic question:

 

Should Sonic return to these old fashioned bosses. The ones that tested your gaming ability that you built up as you played the game, rather than the cliche Super Sonic ones that feature a completely seperate style of gameplay.

 

 

EDIT: I wanted to get pretty pictures here but Imageshack is playing up. So sorry about that.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Sunset

[Spin Attaxx]

Yes. Super Sonic should be a playable game breaker, and the final bosses should actually be scary. How? NO RINGS, NORMAL SONIC AND EGGMAN ONLY, FINAL ZONE.

[---]

Yes. Super Sonic should be a playable game breaker, and the final bosses should actually be scary. How? NO RINGS, NORMAL SONIC AND EGGMAN ONLY, FINAL ZONE.

Basically this, I mean they could be merciful/trollish and give you 1 ring but either way s**t's gonna go down.

That's one thing I absolutely love Colors for (though at the time the final boss did feel a bit anticlimactic), it's basically a normal Tuesday for Sonic and Tails in between the big adventures, no cliche Super Sonic fight with all the other characters as cheerleaders. (btw, did anyone else notice the moon get shot by that dark laser in that one cutscene, foreshadowing at all?)

And why can't other characters be in the final boss fight besides hedgehogs? Seriously, it still immensely pisses me off to this day how Knuckles and Tails were only given those lame bubbles in the Sonic Heroes final fight, that was some insane bullshizzle. 

It would be nice to take a break from Super Sonic final boss fights, maybe let other characters jump in to spice it up? Nothing to do but watch Sonic Team and hope for the best.......SONIC TEAM HURRY UP AND GIVE US SOME FREAKING NEWS SDFOSIFOF SAGHAOPSADHF

Edited January 3, 2013 by Extruder

[Sonictrainer]

Should final bosses force Sonic to fight without Rings? NO THANK YOU. Save that shit for Hard Mode or No Ring Mission.

 

Should the series keep the final bosses and true ending/extra bosses separate instead of forcing an obvious battle with Super Sonic?

 

Well, it depends.

 

If Eggman, the Monster of the Week, or some new villain power-ups to a point where Sonic can't handle him in his regular form or with the help of his friends, I think Super Sonic or a new transformation makes sense (as long as it's written well).

 

For example, in Sonic Unleashed, even though Dark Gaia was basically this giant apocalyptic monster who was supposed to be couple of destroying the planet, Sonic was able to fight and hurt him by poking Dark Gaia in its eyes with his quills and with the help with Chip. It wasn't until it transformed into its "Perfect" form that Sonic decided to go Super

 

In the Wii Version of Colors, Super Sonic wasn't needed because the Nega Wisp Armor wasn't that powerful.

 

I kinda wish that Time Eater could have been fought without Super Sonic but it was obvious from the beginning that neither Sonic or his friends could take Time Eater by themselves (although we don't know if Shadow and Silver could take it on in a fight).

Edited January 3, 2013 by Son1ctrainer

[TheOcelot]

Personally I don't mind having Super Sonic boss fights, but I am sick of the fights being complete shit, having questionable controls, i.e. Sonic Heroes, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Generations and Sonic 06 to an extent (SA1 & SA2 were fine).

 

I would be just as happy with non-Super Sonic boss fights though.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Robin John Blake

[Endy]

How? NO RINGS, NORMAL SONIC AND EGGMAN ONLY, FINAL ZONE.

 

No thanks, I'd rather have my Sonic ifinal bosses evolve past Sonic 2's limits.

[SuperLink]

Yep I'm pretty sick of it, because more often than not the final Super Sonic boss is a boring tedious re-imagining of the same old thing, it's the same every time, it's not even good. The only decent final bosses in Sonic games lately have been.... uh, NegaWisp, and that was way too easy and a non-SS boss.

 

Basically yeah that trope needs to be put to death, Super Sonic was always best as a hidden hax way to play through the game for those who earned it, and a hidden level in Sonic 3. Don't put a gameplay element in the game if it's not fun, if regular Sonic is more fun than the space flying Super Sonic clusterfuck SEGA has in mind, I don't wanna know. Keep it as regular Sonic until you can make Super Sonic bosses fun.

[sonfan1984]

Yes, which is why I'm happy that they made normal Sonic fight against the final boss in Colors for once. I wish that more future games will do that.

[Jango]

I liked how Adventure 2 and Unleashed did the last boss: first you run through a hard level and then you fight as Super Sonic (also the Light Gaia, in Unleashed's case). I like the idea of Eggman vs Sonic, no rings, scary big spiky machine, but fights like this become annoying really quickly and discourage players... I know most people feel more satisfied when they beat the Death Egg boss from Sonic 2, than the Sonic Colors boss, for example, but I just don't see the need to be something THAT hard.

I actually liked how S4 Episode 2 handled the final boss, it's not easy, but ain't fucking impossible too, and there's no Super Sonic.

 

I vote for split final boss, first section against normal Sonic, second against Super Sonic, something like Sonic & Knuckles.

[Diogenes]

I'm sick of shitty ones.

... with controls and a game style that is never used at any other point in the games. 

And this is basically the main problem, as I see it. Most Super Sonic bosses go the Doomsday route and throw in some stripped down flight-based gameplay rather than working with the gameplay that forms the entire rest of the game. While that could've been a nice treat if it was only done occasionally, with it being the traditional and expected final boss style it's lost its impact and its flaws are showing.

 

We don't need to get rid of Super Sonic, though. There's no rule that says, if you play as Super Sonic, it has to be about flying down a tunnel. Outside of bosses he's always controlled like Sonic, but more powerful, his flight being limited to hovering just off the ground while running. Why not work with that for a boss fight? Take a running battle, up the speed, balance it around ring drain rather than ring loss, and you've got a decent boss battle that actually plays something like the rest of the game. Or go beyond that, make the boss more a platforming challenge, sort of like Perfect Chaos, or at least like the Shadow rival battle, where there's some tiered paths to deal with.

[Scar]

^^^^^

I'm in the same boat as Dio on this one.

 

Also, restrict the Super Sonic boss to an unlock for doing something specific, like collecting all Chaos Emeralds.

[Spin Attaxx]

I haven't gotten to it yet, but from what I've seen, SA1 seems to have the best Super Sonic final boss as it's a faster version of what you've been doing as Sonic, and not just HERE HAVE 50 SECONDS TO WORK WITH CONTROLS NOT USED ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE GAME.

[Semi-colon e]

People keep saying that Unleashed was a good super fight but if anything I found it the worst in the entire series. It handles so badly and it's not fun to play, then you just have a whole bunch of QTEs. Time Eater was bad but it was brief.

 

I'm rather fond of Rush Adventure's myself - the whole top down thing works pretty well and the controls and movesets are tight. While it's still different to the main gameplay, they give you more to do than just flying around and hitting things with your head.

 

I loved Colours's final boss too for not being super even though it's essentially piss easy.

 

It sucks as well as like, having a shitty final boss (or even level) can genuinely hurt the rest of the game because you don't remember the awesome times you had during the rest of it during the credits, but just thinking "thank god that last part is over".

Edited January 3, 2013 by Semi-colon e

[Diogenes]

Time Eater was bad but it was brief.

Only if you can figure out what the fuck you're supposed to be doing. Goddamn fuckin' obtuse-ass boss fight.

[Semi-colon e]

Only if you can figure out what the fuck you're supposed to be doing. Goddamn fuckin' obtuse-ass boss fight.

 

Granted...

 

I just hate Unleashed's entire set of final bosses (minus Egg Dragoon) though, the Colossus sections are also abysmal, so meh.

 

Solaris wasn't that bad actually.

[Gregzilla]

I don't mind Super Sonic, but I DO mind when the final boss completely changes the gameplay style.  Final bosses should be a challenge of what the player has learned up to this point, not a completely jarring gameplay shift.

 

SA1 did a fairly good job in this aspect.  It looked different, since you played as Super Sonic, ran on water, and built up speed to attack Chaos, but the core gameplay was pretty much the same as the other Sonic levels.  It just put that gameplay in a different, more hectic situation.

 

If they want to throw in Super Sonic as a final boss element, they should just make him a high-powered version of Sonic, but not completely invincible. There should be a challenge, unlike playing as Super Sonic in the levels.  As long as they don't change the gameplay too much, like most of the 3D games did, final bosses with Super Sonic can be fine.

[hangarninetysix]

I'm sick of shitty ones.

And this is basically the main problem, as I see it. Most Super Sonic bosses go the Doomsday route and throw in some stripped down flight-based gameplay rather than working with the gameplay that forms the entire rest of the game. While that could've been a nice treat if it was only done occasionally, with it being the traditional and expected final boss style it's lost its impact and its flaws are showing.

 

We don't need to get rid of Super Sonic, though. There's no rule that says, if you play as Super Sonic, it has to be about flying down a tunnel. Outside of bosses he's always controlled like Sonic, but more powerful, his flight being limited to hovering just off the ground while running. Why not work with that for a boss fight? Take a running battle, up the speed, balance it around ring drain rather than ring loss, and you've got a decent boss battle that actually plays something like the rest of the game. Or go beyond that, make the boss more a platforming challenge, sort of like Perfect Chaos, or at least like the Shadow rival battle, where there's some tiered paths to deal with.

Agreed. Alot of the boss fights have been bad because they're bad - not because you play as Super Sonic. There are alot of different ways they could use Super Sonic to create an interesting boss fight, I think.

 

Still, I think it would be best reserved as an extra for collecting all the emeralds or something like that. Something that makes it feel truly epic rather than something that just happens along the normal course of clearing all the stages.

[MegasonicZX]

Granted...

 

I just hate Unleashed's entire set of final bosses (minus Egg Dragoon) though, the Colossus sections are also abysmal, so meh.

 

Solaris wasn't that bad actually.

I will agree with the colossus part, that was awful on the 360 version, but better on wii, but I also like the super sonic section tons on the 360 version, but not so much on the wii version. sides it wasn't really the control that was bad, but moreso the camera since you couldn't really move it.

[iDEATH]

Personally I don't mind having Super Sonic boss fights, but I am sick of the fights being complete shit

 

This, no problem with having super sonic boss fights but I'd like to have them control better, whenever I get to a super sonic stage i end up getting killed a couple of times because I've no fucking idea what i'm meant to be doing, Generations was probably the worst for this, you start playing and there's just no explanation of what's going on.

 

I'd also like one tied a little more into the story rather than just "oh no a big monster, GO SUPER SONIC!!!" maybe have Sonic try and take on the final boss and fail, meaning he has to turn super as a last resort?

[Speedy]

I like Super Sonic. I think Super Sonic is epic. Deal with it.

 

Guess I agree on Sonic Adventure having the best way to handle Super Sonic. It gives Sonic an 'upgrade' for the final boss, but doesn't completely change the gameplay. Something like that could've also been done for Generations, it even has Super Sonic playble in normal stages.

 

By the way, I don't understand the hassle about Time Eater. The boss fight was easy as crap. Unleashed's final boss was hard for various reasons. Time Eater? Nah. I found it fun, flying around and stuff. He couldn't even really hurt you.

[DarkLight]

I think people's problem with Time Eater is that you were never given some sort of clue on what to do or how to damage it whether or not you had Omochao turned on. The shitty help from the other characters didn't exactly help either.

 

 

As for Super Sonic, I like him but don't really care if he's final boss only or not. Like Dio and most have said, it depends on the sitiuation of the story whether or not he's needed and making sure he's at least fun or tolerable to play as.

Edited January 3, 2013 by DarkLightDragon

[Rally the Cheetah]

I want to see the beginning of Sonic Unleashed at the END of a Sonic game. That's right, Sonic goes Super, faces Eggman, and Eggman goes "Nuh-uh" and stops Super Sonic with the press of a button. Now that would be a fight. Maybe you'd still get to be Super Sonic at the end but it'd still be a slap in the face for Sonic. Also you'd likely have to fight the Eggman robot boss to get the Emeralds back and, seeing as it's now powered by the emeralds, it's likely gonna shoot a lovely array of colored lasers at you.  

[Cola]

I want to see the beginning of Sonic Unleashed at the END of a Sonic game. That's right, Sonic goes Super, faces Eggman, and Eggman goes "Nuh-uh" and stops Super Sonic with the press of a button. Now that would be a fight. Maybe you'd still get to be Super Sonic at the end but it'd still be a slap in the face for Sonic. Also you'd likely have to fight the Eggman robot boss to get the Emeralds back and, seeing as it's now powered by the emeralds, it's likely gonna shoot a lovely array of colored lasers at you.  

I was just thinking that myself! They could incorporate it into the fight itself, too: Fighting the first phase as Super, then the next as regular Sonic.

[Jix Hedgehog]

I used to think Super Sonic was wasted on just the last boss , but they changed it and allowed us to play him in all stages again, so it's ok

My only real grumble now is that you have to wait until you're near the end of the game to unlock him (looking at you S4:E2 and your non-Star Post Special Stages)

Edited January 3, 2013 by Jix Hedgehog

[Burnt Ash]

Personally, I like them if they're done well and they fit within the context of the story. I liked SA1 and SA2's final Super Sonic bosses, but I despised ShTH(well...Super Shadow), 06's, and Generations. I found the ShTH boss to be dragged out far too long, and the 06 boss to be severely limited in terms of movement..and attacks kinda. The only reason I didn't like Generations is well...there wasn't really anything to keep me going forward, and it felt dull. I both like and dislike Unleashed's Super Sonic fight. One one hand, I found the part without the shield to be pretty cool, and I liked the music and surrouding atmosphere(?) as well. On the other hand, I hated the shield part because I found the controls to be too slippery for my liking, and it was kind of tedious for me.

 

Overall however, I'm not completely sick of the Super Sonic bosses, but I want them to be handled better in the future.