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Would You Like to See a Consistency Between the Worlds in the Games?


Tara

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I think he means the anime-esque humans of SA1 are no more "realism" than the pixar-esque humans of Unleashed.  Both were stylised but not in the same way.

 

I disagree with the notion though.  While anime has a lot of style on the face, most of the rest of the anatomy, in the SA1 style anyway, is fairly down-to-earth.  Unlike Sonic characters themselves who are heavily stylised creatures, and thus fit better with the heavily stylised Unleashed humans.

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I think he means the anime-esque humans of SA1 are no more "realism" than the pixar-esque humans of Unleashed.  Both were stylised but not in the same way.

 

I disagree with the notion though.  While anime has a lot of style on the face, most of the rest of the anatomy, in the SA1 style anyway, is fairly down-to-earth.  Unlike Sonic characters themselves who are heavily stylised creatures, and thus fit better with the heavily stylised Unleashed humans.

I guess that's where I'm the minority.  Somehow the contradiction is what I felt made SA1's settings work well.

 

On the other hand, as stylized as Sonic characters are, I didn't think the Pixar-style was that much more fitting, personally.  I mean, for classic Sonic maybe, but modern Sonic is kind of anime-style himself is he not?  So anime-style humans seems more appropriate to me.

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 I mean, for classic Sonic maybe, but modern Sonic is kind of anime-style himself is he not?

...no? What about him is "anime-style"?

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...no? What about him is "anime-style"?

Sleek body design, eye structure, posture.  He doesn't exactly look like a Pixar cartoon is what I'm getting at.

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Sonic was designed with the Western market in mind. I mean, his main color scheme is red, white and blue for starters. Sonic is only as "anime" as the art style depicts him. Take for example...

 

x5zcas.jpg

 

That looks Western to me. But you did mention Modern Sonic...

 

4qrs4.jpg

 

There is no doubt that Sonic is a Japanese property, but his design is very "Western" cartoon-like.

 

Oh... and the humans?

 

29vz3vl.jpg

 

Like a glove.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by Indigo Rush
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I was referring to the humans in Adventure that didn't look like Pixar.  Of course the humans from Unleashed look like Pixar movies.

 

But that leads me to modern Sonic.  Yes, there's a lot of obvious western influence in his design, and yes I know that Sonic was targeted towards western audiences, but to me, it still doesn't fit to have Unleashed style characters, in my opinion.  It looks like they put Sonic in a Pixar movie as opposed to a Pixar movie about Sonic.

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Sleek body design, eye structure, posture.  He doesn't exactly look like a Pixar cartoon is what I'm getting at.

And I'd say he looks even less like an anime character. A sleek body isn't anything unique to anime, his eyes are the same as they've always been which is more Felix/Mickey than anime, and I don't think there's anything especially "anime" about his posture. His modern design is just a "cooler" twist on old Western style cartoon animals, so it makes sense to surround him with more Western-styled characters, even if a Pixaresque style isn't a perfect fit.

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And I'd say he looks even less like an anime character. A sleek body isn't anything unique to anime, his eyes are the same as they've always been which is more Felix/Mickey than anime, and I don't think there's anything especially "anime" about his posture. His modern design is just a "cooler" twist on old Western style cartoon animals, so it makes sense to surround him with more Western-styled characters, even if a Pixaresque style isn't a perfect fit.

Eh, it still looks like something more Eastern to me, albeit the western influence is very clear.  That being said, even if it's not "anime style" that doesn't mean it fits within a Pixar environment.  Classic Sonic would fit more, but even that's kind of a stretch as it resembles more classic Disney than modern Pixar.

 

I don't know.  It feels off to me, but apparently I'm the only one who thinks so, so I guess my opinion is wrong or whatever.

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I'm not quite getting how the Sonic characters don't fit with Pixary humans. They (the Sonic characters) definitely have a Japanesey feel to their designs, but that shouldn't stop anything considering how the Pixar / Unleashed style is very worldly-centric in where it takes its inspiration from regarding art definition. Plus, they both share a mixture of proportion play, cartoon style amalgamation, and massive use of blending sharp edges with rounded curves. 

 

Its fine to me.

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I'm not quite getting how the Sonic characters don't fit with Pixary humans. They (the Sonic characters) definitely have a Japanesey feel to their designs, but that shouldn't stop anything considering how the Pixar / Unleashed style is very worldly-centric in where it takes its inspiration from regarding art definition. Plus, they both share a mixture of proportion play, cartoon style amalgamation, and massive use of blending sharp edges with rounded curves. 

 

Its fine to me.

Perhaps it's not so much the concept of Pixar-esque humans, but the humans in particular that are shown in the game.  Even Pixar doesn't have the same exact style in every movie, although recent films would have you thinking otherwise.  Maybe Toy Story style humans as opposed to everything from The Incredibles onwards?

 

I don't know.  As it stands though, Unleashed felt a little off to me atmospherically.  Not to say that the game isn't beautifully designed, but it feels like they picked up Sonic and put him elsewhere.

Edited by Akito
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I still don't really get how though. It feels like it fits to me. Sonic is an exaggerated, colorful, cartoony anthropomorphic animal with more than one cultural influence put into his design as well as lots of squash and stretch and abstraction, which goes alongside the rest of anthros he stars alongside, as well as the humans shown in Unleashed and even the more traditional animals shown in the classics.

 

And it all takes place in a universe with lots of cartoony exaggeration and warped shapes; sometimes being closer to home (Unleashed, SA1/2, some of S3K) and sometimes more fantastical and oddly designed environments (S1/2, Heroes, some of S3K, SCD, Colors). I think it all works out fitting with each other.

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Well, I guess I can't really explain why.  It just feels off to me; like in Mario is Missing where after you go into the main part of the game, none of the characters seem to click right with the Mario universe.

 

But like I said in my original post, that's probably just because I've grown used to the humans from SA1 to ShTH and am just blindly nostalgic to it.

Edited by Akito
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To each their own.  You seem to be the majority in that mindset anyway.

 

It's not to say that I -mind- the Pixar-esque humans in Sonic games, though.  It doesn't particularly detract from the game or anything, and it's definitely an improvement over their vain attempts at trying to make the Sonic series dark and gritty.

Edited by Akito
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Look at Snow White. How different snow white looks next to the dwarfs. It's not like it looks that weird. I'm in the camp that doesn't like the over exaggerated look of Unleashed humans. I prefer something like a Princess Peach type design from Smash Bros.

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Look at Snow White. How different snow white looks next to the dwarfs. It's not like it looks that weird.

Do we seriously have to have a discussion on how these aesthetics work for the millionth time?

 

I'm in the camp that doesn't like the over exaggerated look of Unleashed humans. I prefer something like a Princess Peach type design from Smash Bros.

Princess Peach is similar to the Unleashed humans as far as the design goes, and your Dwarf example is even more cartoony, so you just shot your own argument twice in the foot.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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I like to see something new in each game in terms of story (along with almost everything else), but I would like to see consistency from stories in past games more often. Even more mentions of past games would make me happy.

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for me the world of Sonic is similar to dragonball where you find humans, anthropomorphic animals, aliens or supernatural creatures.
too modern or futuristic cities, or magical places.
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Do we seriously have to have a discussion on how these aesthetics work for the millionth time?

 

Princess Peach is similar to the Unleashed humans as far as the design goes, and your Dwarf example is even more cartoony, so you just shot your own argument twice in the foot.

Princess Peach in Melee/Brawl doesn't really have that over exaggerated look the humans in unleashed have. And I don't know what you mean by shooting my own argument. I was making a point. Sonic represents the dwarfs and snow white can represent a human. It's interesting to look at. You're saying that humans HAVE to have that crazy over exaggerated look to fit with sonic's world, but I'm saying it doesn't have to be that way. Not that humans have to look like snow white, but that's why I mentioned Peach from that specific series. She has a good head/body ratio for the sonic world. Doesn't look bland. Even zelda games have characters with all sorts of body types and exaggerations that don't fit like a glove with Link's design but it's okay. It's interesting.

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Actually Princess Peach's design in the Smash Bros. series and maybe in Super Mario Sunshine probably best describe what I was going for.  But then, the G.U.N. soldiers in ShTH and the human characters in Sonic '06 didn't strike me as too odd either.  Well, aesthetically anyway...

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Princess Peach in Melee/Brawl doesn't really have that over exaggerated look the humans in unleashed have.

Peach(Clear).pngHualinwii.png

 

Please enlighten me. All I'm seeing is the dress and hair being more detailed, because aside from that she'd fit right into the humans in Unleashed, especially if you were to give her the more simplistic detailed dress she wears most of the time.

 

In fact, we could even use characters like Mario, Luigi, and Wario since we're talking about Mario/Brawl characters.

 

And I don't know what you mean by shooting my own argument. I was making a point. Sonic represents the dwarfs and snow white can represent a human.

Well for one, Sonic is an animal while the dwarfs are human. Secondly, they're Disney characters, as is their Pixar subdivision, similar that of the Pixaresque designs that we associate the Unleashed characters. The proportions always vary between each other between each and every character whether human, animal, or inanimate object come to life. Thirdly, the fact that you used Disney character designs in the first place goes against your point because as Pixar is a part of Disney and we compare the humans from Unleashed with the character designs they make, that goes against your point against Unleashed's humans.

 

Do we need to start comparing concept art here?

 

It's interesting to look at. You're saying that humans HAVE to have that crazy over exaggerated look to fit with sonic's world, but I'm saying it doesn't have to be that way. Not that humans have to look like snow white, but that's why I mentioned Peach from that specific series. She has a good head/body ratio for the sonic world. Doesn't look bland.

I thought you were going to bring up realism again regarding the human designs. But the same can be said of Unleashed regardless. None of them look bland either. I mean really, how the hell are you going to tell me that these character designs:

Funny_People_1.png

 

Are less interesting and less exaggerated than these:

Roster.png

 

As far as designs go for humans (or even the non-humans)? (I seriously could not find a better example on the internet in my search, so if anyone can do better, I'd love a link)

 

Even zelda games have characters with all sorts of body types and exaggerations that don't fit like a glove with Link's design but it's okay. It's interesting.

Um, no.

 

The characters body types and exaggerations ABSOLUTELY fit like a glove with Link's design. That's the reason you don't see the body types and exaggerations from examples such as Twilight Princess or Majora's Mask in the same place as Minish Cap or Wind Maker, EVERY iteration is different. They're a part of the same series, but each one is different with varying levels of cartoony exaggerations or realism from each game.

 

Games like Twilight Princess, Majora's Mask, and Ocarina of Time fall closer to the realism spectrum while Minish Cap, Wind Maker, and Spirit Tracks fall closer to cartoony. That's not saying that the former games are realistic when it comes to their humans (far from it actually), because yes they do have varying proportions (like Unleashed), but you can't throw the former category of designs into the latter category and expect it not to clash due to the myriad of factors such as lighting, style, tone, setting, and graphical quality, along with the proportions, that would go against it unless you were specifically making a crossover that is unconcerned with fitting in due to it being a cross between artsyles in the first place.

 

That's the reason why no one sees issue with the character designs when it comes to the Zelda series, in addition to the fact that they change every character proportions every game, up to and including the central three characters Zelda, Link, and Ganondorf. So it becomes a moot point either way.

 

Same case follows with Sonic, except his design has been far more consistent as far as proportions go compared to the Zelda series, and as a result changes in designs become more apparent and the reception follows with it. Nevermind the fact that, unlike the Zelda series in which the characters in different universes/periods of time/whatever-the-hell-was-the-explaination, Sonic has been in the same consistent universe since start to present.

 

But even then, other characters are made to fall into place so that they fit in. That's why they couldn't just put Eggman in his cartoony porportions into a game like Sonic 06 when the concept behind that game was "What if Sonic was real", and the same even applies to Sonic himself since they alter his proportions. And the reason why people don't like that look is because they don't think it fits right with Sonic.

 

Look, GUN Commander? Despite him being in ShTH, he could definitely fit beside the case if his proportion was given a lift and a tuck. Elise? She fit the game she was in, but she set off some uncanny valley alarms as far as the whole series went, and people thought she didn't fit well - were she given a few alterations, she could probably fit (thought considering the fanbase holds a grudge against her, I don't think it would be too welcoming regardless). Eggman? That shouldn't even be a question to ask. And Prof. Pickle? I think I would sit back and let people like Verte, Diogenes, Ragna, Komodin, and Indigo Rush jump in to explain that one, because this post is long as hell as it is.

 

TL;DR - Character designs are not a simple algebraic case of X looks better than Y and would be better next to Z than Y does. It's a whole calculus of variables.

 

And there are a few exceptions for that to where the designs don't need to matter such as crossovers, for example.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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Um... I don't think that Peach or that character from Chun-Nan look like they fit together AT ALL.  Yes, they're both heavily stylized, but they're not done so in the same way.  That might be just the difference in textures though.

 

The Mario series looks a lot like a Pixar movie, but a much different variety.  Also, you're kind of stating your opinion as fact.

 

On the subject of the blandness, I don't think either set of characters are any more or less bland, but if you put one in a game with the other, they'd certainly stick out like a sore thumb.

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Pickle.png   200px-Peach_FS.png

 

How about now?

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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Princess Peach from Melee/Brawl has more realistic human proportions in the face, limbs, and general relationships between the sizes of body parts than that Unleashed human or Pickle does. Couple that with the amount of actual detail in that render, as well as her fantastic way of dress and her colors, and she ceases to occupy the exact same space in aesthetics as the Unleashed NPCs do. Therefore, if she were put in the game, she would've stood out for reasons beyond her identity.

Edited by Nepenthe
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Sorry, still no.  I mean, yeah, the nose is very similar to a Mario character and yes the textures are more consistent this time, but still they look like they're from two separate entities.

Edited by Akito
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