Would You Like to See a Consistency Between the Worlds in the Games?

[Tara]

I just don't like how there's this view that the Unleashed humans are the only type of designs that can and should fit with the sonic characters. I really wish I could post pics for examples here but my shit laptop is so old.

 

There's just something about Unleashed humans I don't like. Their noodly disfigured look is ugly to my eyes. I don't see the sonic characters as ugly, that's why this bothers me. That's why I mentioned Peach as an example of an exagerrated character that's pleasing to look at. The snow white thing was just a point that snow white didn't need to look all stretchy and stuff to fit in with the dwarfs. Not that I want humans to look uncanny in sonic.

About my zelda example. As one example, there's this wimpy guy in Skyward Sword in the main shop who carries a baby. Bertie's his name. You look at the design of Link who's very handsome and pleasing to look at, and you look at this guy who's design doesn't fit like a glove with Links. But it's okay because for his type of character and the way he acts it's funny, and also not everyone looks as ridiculous as this guy.

But the thing with Unleashed is all the humans have this kind of ridiculous look similar to that guy for example. As well as Sonic being a different species from humans.

Actually, that pretty much clarifies my own thoughts on the subject.  Unleashed human designs are good for their own universe, but they're exaggerated features make them out as deliberately ugly and I really wouldn't say Sonic himself or the other non-human characters are stylized to look comedically hideous.

 

HOWEVER... if Unleashed were based in the Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog universe, I might think different.  I mean, in that series Sonic, Tails, and Robotnik all look not exactly "hideous" by any means, but they're clearly designed with comedy in mind,  which means grossly unnatural caricaturization.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Akito

[Kuzu]

I don't really see what's so "ugly" looking about the Unleashed human designs, at least compared to Sonic and co. Eggman is comically disproportionate, he's basically a balloon on legs, yet nobody is saying anything about that. 

[Diogenes]

There's just something about Unleashed humans I don't like. Their noodly disfigured look is ugly to my eyes.

 

Unleashed human designs are good for their own universe, but they're exaggerated features make them out as deliberately ugly

Do you people just...not like cartoons? If you wanna argue that there are better ways to represent humans in this series, okay, but I just don't get this aversion to some pretty basic stylization. Does Elmer Fudd's big head make you retch? Are you upset by the fact that Bart Simpson's hair isn't distinct from his skin? I'm not trying to be insulting here, but I straight up don't understand how you can feel this way.

[Remynaka]

IT could be the unleashed style of humans just bats them in the wrong way. I myself like the anime look of the humans more myself, I don't have a problem with the non-anime look of unleashed's humans.. but imo it's not the best. The anime look seems to fit more to me, could be that sonic is made in japan and that's why I feel that way. I dunno, but what's pleasing to the eye is different to everybody. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I just don't like how there's this view that the Unleashed humans are the only type of designs that can and should fit with the sonic characters. I really wish I could post pics for examples here but my shit laptop is so old.

 

There's just something about Unleashed humans I don't like. Their noodly disfigured look is ugly to my eyes. I don't see the sonic characters as ugly, that's why this bothers me. That's why I mentioned Peach as an example of an exagerrated character that's pleasing to look at. The snow white thing was just a point that snow white didn't need to look all stretchy and stuff to fit in with the dwarfs. Not that I want humans to look uncanny in sonic.

You mean to tell me this stuff is ugly?  (spoilered for size)

Yeah, I went there with Eggman.

 

And I got even more examples and concept art than that to show.

 

Dude, it sounds like a case of not liking exaggerated cartoon humans exclusively for the Sonic series. Mario, Luigi, Waluigi, and Wario have their proporportions noodly or fattened to the same exaggerated features (if not MORE exaggerated regarding Waluigi and Wario) as far as stylization goes, and you no doubt wouldn't bat an eye towards them. Same goes for other humans like Professor E. Gadd, or even the Toadstools who are midgets with mushroom heads. Princess Peach, Daisy, and Rosalina are the only human characters in the Mario series who wouldn't fit your definition of "ugly" since they weren't made along the same stretch and squash appearances as the other mentioned characters, but even the Mario series does just this since you want to use it as an example.

 

And by the way? Zelda's even worse, and they still don't look out of place next to the more attractive looking characters...

About my zelda example. As one example, there's this wimpy guy in Skyward Sword in the main shop who carries a baby. Bertie's his name. You look at the design of Link who's very handsome and pleasing to look at, and you look at this guy who's design doesn't fit like a glove with Links. But it's okay because for his type of character and the way he acts it's funny, and also not everyone looks as ridiculous as this guy.

 

Freaking Tingle, probably the best example of the Zelda series you should have used, looks completely freaking different from just about every design in the series you can think of...and even then he still fits Link's world like a glove. Really, compare him in Majora's Mask next to Fierce Diety Link in the same game and tell me people wouldn't say they're from the same series. Because even Zelda fans would call you crazy if you did. Many in the west may not like him compared to Japan, but it's hard not to associate him with anything but the Zelda franchise. The Postman is probably just as ridiculous looking, and he's still seen as a part of the Zelda series instead of outside of it.

 

On top of that, you're comparing Sonic series to a series that has living rock people, mermaids, plant people, and chicken's with a human-like head and in various styles from each respective title. Seriously think about the series you're comparing before you start using them as examples. Because these things make it harder to find in uncanny valley for the Zelda franchise when the world they live in is already weird enough not to bring them to question.

But the thing with Unleashed is all the humans have this kind of ridiculous look similar to that guy for example. As well as Sonic being a different species from humans.

You mean to tell me that even characters like Hualin, Rudi, Jamal, Shadi, Teanchai, Ippolita (seriously?), Layla, Lil' Kate, Kaeo, Ana and so forth all look very similar, comical, and "ugly" as this guy?

 

 

Then you, my friend, have absolutely no clue what "ugly" is even subjectively. Even you are smart enough to see the number of differences between Bertie and those characters, and even more to list.

 

And your Zelda and Mario examples shoots the whole "Different species from humans" argument in the foot when they both do the same damn thing. You're making this a point when, in addition to the Zelda franchise races, you just used a series with a giant talking dragon-turtle who has an army of other turtles and mushrooms against a kingdom of mushroom headed midgets lead by one of the few humans in the series, and said dragon-turtle seems to have a crush on her as an example? Nevermind the dinosaurs and the Delfino people in the other titles.

 

There may be a better argument here, but you're definitely not delivering it. If you want more attractive looking humans, that's fine. No one's gonna argue against that. Different style of humans? If they can do better, I'm all for it. Realistic humans? Out of the question; for example, people look at Princess Elise as far more of a Final Fantasy character than a Sonic one and they even changed Eggman to fit next to her. Anime styled humans? Anime is just as varied in style as western cartoons are, from the chibi-characters to the realistic ones, so it's still a question of what style to use. And as far as being exaggerated or "ugly" as you want to call the humans in Unleashed? Yeah, you're only going against your point when you use Zelda and Mario as an example when, as I've said before, they do the same thing within their own respective series in the styles they want to conform them in.

 

You can't say that Zelda or Mario has this character that looks different and doesn't fit next to Link but "that's okay because I think it works", yet complain about the Sonic series doing the same thing in its series but in a different style of their own to at least try to match their characters in relation or because "Sonic is a different species".

 

Even in art, It doesn't work that way, and is hypocritical as hell when you try to make an argument out of it. You never complained about different looking humans and non-humans in Mario. You never complained about different looking humans and non-humans in Zelda. So why in the fuck are you complaining about different looking humans next to non-humans in Sonic?

Edited January 19, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Dr. Homem]

IT could be the unleashed style of humans just bats them in the wrong way. I myself like the anime look of the humans more myself, I don't have a problem with the non-anime look of unleashed's humans.. but imo it's not the best. The anime look seems to fit more to me, could be that sonic is made in japan and that's why I feel that way. I dunno, but what's pleasing to the eye is different to everybody. 

Sonic may have been created in Japan, but he was designed with Western culture in mind, in the cartoony veins of Mickey or Felix. I won't parrot what people have mentioned here already, however, Sonic does not look at all like an anime character, unless he is depicted as one specifically (ie. Sonic X). By concept, he is of a western cartoon style.

[Tani Coyote]

I like to assume they're all different regions on the same planet.

 

Sonic Unleashed, while it mapped out the world quite visibly, nonetheless only has you visit a handful of locations in a much larger world. I'm inclined to think Central City, Station Square, etc. are probably in the same region as Empire City and such.

 

Though a consistent world overall would be a good idea. At least some general idea would be nice.

 

I am totally not endorsing this because of how it would help a Mobius: Total War game become a reality.

[Pawn]

The style of the humans has never really bothered me that much, even if I did raise an eyebrow at them in '06. Unleashed is the only game in which I've actually appreciated their design, though, and I'd personally love to see them develop it further.

[Your Vest Friend]

I like to assume they're all different regions on the same planet.

 

Sonic Unleashed, while it mapped out the world quite visibly, nonetheless only has you visit a handful of locations in a much larger world. I'm inclined to think Central City, Station Square, etc. are probably in the same region as Empire City and such.

 

Though a consistent world overall would be a good idea. At least some general idea would be nice.

 

I am totally not endorsing this because of how it would help a Mobius: Total War game become a reality.

 

But that doesn't stop the fact that human settlements are still distributed evenly around the world.

 

Even without Unleashed, places as seen in the likes of Sonic Riders or something likely aren't in the same place as any of the Unleashed places, or Station Square, or Central City. And Soleanna is likely closer to Spagonia than any of the Adventure locations. 

[Tani Coyote]

But that doesn't stop the fact that human settlements are still distributed evenly around the world.

 

Even without Unleashed, places as seen in the likes of Sonic Riders or something likely aren't in the same place as any of the Unleashed places, or Station Square, or Central City. And Soleanna is likely closer to Spagonia than any of the Adventure locations. 

 

We live in a world where some live in modern cities and some live in huts.

 

Given how bizarre the nature of Sonic's world is, I don't find it too unreasonable that super futuristic cities could possibly exist alongside the modern (i.e. like a developed country on our world) cities.

 

Really Sega needs to do some sort of trivia on the geopolitics of the world somewhere. While I think it's obvious enough the United Federation is the prime superpower and GUN is basically NATO, we know next to nothing else about it.

 

(Also would help set the stage for a Total War game )

[Your Vest Friend]

We live in a world where some live in modern cities and some live in huts.

 

Given how bizarre the nature of Sonic's world is, I don't find it too unreasonable that super futuristic cities could possibly exist alongside the modern (i.e. like a developed country on our world) cities.

 

Really Sega needs to do some sort of trivia on the geopolitics of the world somewhere. While I think it's obvious enough the United Federation is the prime superpower and GUN is basically NATO, we know next to nothing else about it.

 

(Also would help set the stage for a Total War game )

 

I wasn't arguing that they wouldn't exist, I was arguing that their geography would likely be quite far away from said cities. You wouldn't just spend a budget leaving a portion of the province in such a state compared to another, you'd do it in gradual steps. 

[Tani Coyote]

I wasn't arguing that they wouldn't exist, I was arguing that their geography would likely be quite far away from said cities. You wouldn't just spend a budget leaving a portion of the province in such a state compared to another, you'd do it in gradual steps. 

 

Oh! My bad.

 

I can see what you're saying. If all cities are on the same world I really wish Sega would detail how such a large disparity formed.

 

And furthermore, how Eggman is an actual threat if there are cities that are fairly high-tech. Unless they're xenophobic and have walled themselves in, surely they'd be willing to help the rest of the world?

 

I'm also curious how anthropomorphic inhabitants came to be. How many of them are there on the planet? Are they a very small group numbering a few thousand, or are there possibly millions, maybe even with their own country to call home? Since the bulk of them have powers, I'm inclined to think they're some sort of mutant minority, but nothing's for certain.

 

Unfortunately worldbuilding is very delicate lest you alienate those who prefer a simpler game.

[lounge]

The only example of an Unleashed human off the top of my head that I really loved was ghost girl from the Night of the Werehog short. I legit was really impressed when I saw her and she's not even technically human.

The worst example is the Progressive insurance commercial with Flo and the blond guy. I hate the whole Huge-ass head with noodly/skinny/tiny human body type especially for the sonic world. And seeing these types all around for most of the humans in Unleashed just bothered me. And you're argument is that they fit like a glove with the sonic characters therefore they are perfect and nothing else could be better. Just because sonic characters are the big headed type with small bodies doesn't mean it'll automatically be perfect for the human type. I'm not saying everyone should hate the Unleashed humans but I just want you to accept that there can be other types and not to be so narrow-minded. And that just because I don't like them doesn't mean I don't like cartoons in general. As if Unleashed is the gold standard for cartoon designs.

 

The Mario world barely consists of humans, so it doesn't bother me at all. Waluigi and Wario I just don't mind. Plus they don't have normal behaviors. Very mischievous and evil and unique. And you have pleasant looking characters like the princesses to bring balance, at least that's how I see it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Dude, you seriously didn't read my post if you're calling me narrow-minded. Either that or you gravely missing the point of the argument.

[Tara]

Okay, so replaying SA2's last story recently made me realize just how stupid looking the humans look in those cutscenes, and they're not really much more fitting than Unleashed's.  That said, I prefer Unleashed's to SA2's humans, but not Unleashed to SA1 still.

 

I mean, I'm not sure what they were going for, but the models looked like they were made of really bad clay, and I know those were revolutionary graphics for the time, but they came across as hideous.  In other words, it definitely hasn't aged well.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Akito

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Were SA1's humans even named? Or given any kind of personality beyond being NPC that just walked around?

 

Because in Unleashed, you'd have characters travel different continents like Hualin the Runaway, or Shadi going to Empire City to begin his music career.

[DarkDefeater]

No, I do not believe they were named. Some of the characters had a nice small degree of story development though.

[Tara]

Were SA1's humans even named? Or given any kind of personality beyond being NPC that just walked around?

 

Because in Unleashed, you'd have characters travel different continents like Hualin the Runaway, or Shadi going to Empire City to begin his music career.

Jagshamesh!  My name is Shadi and in my home country of Egypt, I am going to pursue a musical career. [/obligatory outdated YGOTAS referene]

 

Also, there is SOME consistency in the humans in SA1, but very little.  One recurring NPC is "Mr. Know-It-All," a kid who wants to look smart by explaining to you basic functions of the game.  I'm pretty sure Robotnik roboticized his soul and turned him into Omochao... that's my head-canon and I'm sticking to it.

 

Another one involves a girl trying to get to know her crush, the guy that works at the burger shop.

 

Of course, the best NPC is the statue of the fat guy in front of the burger shop.  He has the most compelling backstory.  You see, in his other life, he was a king, but he abused his powers and when he died, the gods looked down upon him and decided that as punishment for his innumerable crimes against humanity, including but not limited to making a bad Sonic fan film, he would be forever trapped in a state of numbness and serve an eternity as a decoration for the front of a fast food restaurant, doomed to be constantly picked up and moved from place to place for all kinds of questionable purposes.  Again, just my head-canon.

 

So yeah, no humans aside from Eggman and "Mr. Know-It-All," are ever named, but there is a bit of story going on between them.

[Crackerss]

All this Zelda talk actually makes me interested to have a sonic world with all the more cartoony and whacky Zelda NPC style, i.e. the Happy Mask Salesman and Tingle. It's one of those styles that are distinctly Japanese but don't sacrifice emotion for the sake of it!

[The Pit of Mystic Cave]

If the Sonic universe had to adopt a consistent artstyle, I would prefer it to be something like Sonic Heroes. That game felt very Sonic-y in the sense that it looked a lot like what you would expect a 3D Sonic game to look like (checkered walls and everything). That being said, I think the Adventure universes had more wiggle room for plot devices, which is made clear based on Heroes VERY simple story line compared to SA and SA2.

[Frogging101]

I think that I would like to see some consistency and also a little more world building in Sonic games. But this doesn't mean that everything has to look the same. As Indigo Rush pointed out in on the first page, our own Earth is extremely diverse. But it would be nice to have a clearly defined setting. What planet is this on? Is it the same planet as last time? Is the moon cut in half or is it not? Stuff like that.

[Tani Coyote]

I like to see Sonic's world as one in which the human areas - the cities and general settlements- are portrayed as rather realistic, such as what we got with Unleashed. Meanwhile, the natural world leans to more outlandish designs, such as checkered terrain, absurd twists and loops, and looming, angular mountains.

 

Actually is logical. The natural world is chaotic and disorderly, hence its bizarre designs at times. Contrast to the cities, which are planned, structured, orderly.

 

Now look at Sonic and Eggman. Nature versus technology. Chaos versus order. Freedom versus slavery. Sonic comes from the natural world, one free of restraints, whereas it's very likely Eggman grew up in the cities with all their orderly design and technological wonder.

 

Now if only Sega would explore this theme some more and establish a consistent world design rather than changing it every game...