How Far is TOO Far?

[Kuzu]

I'm not saying it has to deconstruct anything. What I'm saying is that it would be nice for the player's/Sonic's motivation to at least have some consistency for what kind of thing is bad and needs to be stopped at all costs and what kind of thing is an annoyance and might as well be stopped on the way to the end of the game.

 

 

I take it the last three games would fall under the latter description?

[Tornado]

Not necessarily that broad, but look at it this way: In Adventure, Eggman releases Chaos on accident, which absolutely needs to be stopped before it starts throwing around Hitler-esque death counts. In Adventure 2, he blows up the moon, and action which would similarly kill hundreds of thousands of people IRL (not even considering if pieces started raining down on the planet), but it's a minor inconvenience that serves no purpose other than to push forward the story. Then Eggman threatens to do the same to the planet itself, which is treated gravely seriously and cannot be permitted at any cost. The Gerald does his thing, and the situation gets even worse (even Eggman loses his shit at what is happening) even though it really shouldn't have been. A few games later, and the planet actually gets exploded, and Sonic stops just short of shrugging his newly-stretchy shoulders in annoyance at Eggman's actions (and Eggman literally couldn't care less) despite it being a thing that would in no uncertain terms kill everything before the story actually kicks off.

 

 

Also, he's launched into space and now it's not a big deal anymore (again). Why are we supposed to treat it, any of it, anymore seriously from one game to another when even the games don't even attempt to keep it straight?

Edited February 5, 2013 by Tornado

[Pawn]

Then Eggman threatens to do the same to the planet itself, which is treated gravely seriously and cannot be permitted at any cost. The Gerald does his thing, and the situation gets even worse (even Eggman loses his shit at what is happening) even though it really shouldn't have been.

 

The difference here is that Eggman is only threatening to blast the Earth so that the world leaders are forced to surrender. He's never going to need to go that far, while Gerald doesn't give anybody an option. There's no bargaining; the world is going to die if he gets his way. Having said that, I agree with what you're saying in general, especially in the case of Unleashed.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Pawn

[Kuzu]

Not necessarily that broad, but look at it this way: In Adventure, Eggman releases Chaos on accident, which absolutely needs to be stopped before it starts throwing around Hitler-esque death counts. In Adventure 2, he blows up the moon, and action which would similarly kill hundreds of thousands of people IRL (not even considering if pieces started raining down on the planet), but it's a minor inconvenience that serves no purpose other than to push forward the story. Then Eggman threatens to do the same to the planet itself, which is treated gravely seriously and cannot be permitted at any cost. The Gerald does his thing, and the situation gets even worse (even Eggman loses his shit at what is happening) even though it really shouldn't have been. A few games later, and the planet actually gets exploded, and Sonic stops just short of shrugging his newly-stretchy shoulders in annoyance at Eggman's actions (and Eggman literally couldn't care less) despite it being a thing that would in no uncertain terms kill everything before the story actually kicks off.

 

 

Also, he's launched into space and now it's not a big deal anymore (again). Why are we supposed to treat it, any of it, anymore seriously from one game to another when even the games don't even attempt to keep it straight?

 

 

Basically there's no cosistency as far as the threat level in this series is correct, that an apocalyptic scenario can be treated as a minor inconvenience in one day?

[Diogenes]

Not necessarily that broad, but look at it this way: *snip*

Well part of this is that it's a matter of cartoon physics. Realistically, blowing up the moon would have devastating effects on the planet, but Sonic's world isn't that realistic, so it doesn't. I think most people wouldn't even consider the effects that the moon has on the Earth, so it's not too hard to see it as just a show of power. Blasting the Earth is a different matter, since that's actually aiming the laser at people, at countries, which would directly destroy them.

Unleashed, well, if you can accept that the world is intact, unharmed, and fully functional aside from being split into pieces (which is, admittedly, quite a lot to swallow), it's not too unreasonable that Sonic didn't get worked up about it. Yes, the world's been split into pieces, but everyone is okay, and we are working on a solution, therefore we don't need to get upset about it. Though it probably would've helped if they had a few lines addressing the situation as such, rather than ignoring it.

[Kuzu]

I still think the "Boost Trilogy" have the problem of severely downplaying the threat level of an event except when it feels like it; The world is broken in Unleashed, and while I wouldn't want there to be casualties, they really should have played up the severity of the situation more to give both Sonic and the player an urgency to beat the game and solve the problem. Eggman is effectively committing genocide on an Alien race yet it's treated with about as much seriousness as a slap on the knee,aside from one scene which goes back to the statement about only playing up a threat when it feels like it, and the scene itself is so disjointed from the rest of the game(The very next cutscene has Sonic going on with another excessively long Joke). Generations has time and space being torn apart and the fabric of reality potentially collapsing, yeah I think I made my point.

 

Yeah I agree with Tornado, the series really needs to establish a stable threat level because events that should be taken seriously(Or as serious as this series would allow) are severely downplayed.

[Soniman]

To be fair, Eggman never really "killed" any of the aliens, he was just turning them into those Purple monstrosities.And im guessing Sonic's boundless optomism figured that he'd find a way to turn them normal again, so no biggie I guess.

[Kuzu]

To be fair, Eggman never really "killed" any of the aliens, he was just turning them into those Purple monstrosities.And im guessing Sonic's boundless optomism figured that he'd find a way to turn them normal again, so no biggie I guess.

 

Eggman also didn't "kill" anybody in the Adventure games, but that didn't stop Sonic from taking him seriously back then.

[Pawn]

I still think the "Boost Trilogy" have the problem of severely downplaying the threat level of an event except when it feels like it; The world is broken in Unleashed, and while I wouldn't want there to be casualties, they really should have played up the severity of the situation more to give both Sonic and the player an urgency to beat the game and solve the problem.

 

I'd have been happy if Sonic and the rest of the population had just shown a little more concern. It would have made more sense if the various tasks you could carry out directly related to the situation; ie. a Spagonian is concerned about their relatives over in Empire City, asking you to deliver a letter to them. Perhaps a sign that some buildings were affected? Construction going on in a couple of places?

 

EDIT: This kind of thing would also have made me feel that I was helping out in a more meaningful way.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Pawn

[Aquaslash]

what modern Disney movie aimed towards younger audiences has murder,homicide and mass deaths? I haven't heard of one.

 

 

IIRC, Finding Nemo starts with Nemo's mom being killed by a shark.  There was also the ending of "A Bug's Life" where the villain (Hopper, I think it was?) was fed alive to a pack of baby birds.

[DarkLight]

Though it's a Dreamworks movie and not Disney/Pixar, Kung-Fu Panda 2 had an element of genocide and mass murder on the pandas because Lord Shen tried to cheat his own destiny of being defeated by one.

 

 

I could also bring up the Prince of Egypt, but that wouldn't really count as recent.

Edited February 5, 2013 by DarkLightDragon

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Don't forget the part near the end if Kung-Fu Panda 2 where Shen kills his leading henchman on scree with three knives to his chest.

[Fake Hedgehog]

I think that Eggman  definitely  needs to be a darker character.

 

Look at Colors and Generations; I mean, you literally have Sonic pointing and laughing at him now!

Poor guy!

[Diogenes]

If there's ever a game where Sonic can't point and laugh at Eggman, something's gone wrong.

[Kuzu]

I think he means Eggman should be taken a bit more seriously considering he's the villain.

[Diogenes]

I think he means Eggman should be taken a bit more seriously considering he's the villain.

Yeah, but his example is "Sonic laughs at him", which isn't something I consider a problem (in fact I wouldn't mind seeing more of it).

[Spin Attaxx]

I could see NPCs and maybe a few minor recurring characters seeing Eggman as a serious threat, though.

[Jolt_TH]

I thought adventure and adventure 2 had a good level of threat. In adventure he saw chaos grew stronger with more emeralds and knew he had to be stopped, especially in the last story, you knew some people survived injury from Perfect Chaos, but it never did SthH "everyone was evacuated to a safe zone" so you can assume some people died it got seriously injured at least.

In adventure 2, despite the plotholes I think Eggman was at his best, calculating, manipulative and an actual threat, sonic still makes wisecracks "you've turned into a big time villian doctor" but takes him a lot more seriously, going straight to him (through crazy gadget) straight when he us called and not dumping the fake emerald in the eclipse cannon before going.

The last story in my opinion actually gives the right amount if threat level, the atmosphere, the fact that everyone is working together, really makes you want to succeed (and had me trying to complete cannons core for a whole day when I was 7)

I don't know exactly what it is but it gives a sort of driving force, you know there is a fairly serious threat, you know what you have to do, can you do it? And it feels so good knowing you saved the world (even if it is a fake one)