Sonic character's Hidden Depths

[Vertekins]

Part of the reason as to why I made this topic is to dispel the notion that Sonic as a character is nothing more complex than the average shonen hero, something that actually peeves me to no end.

 

Rubbish! Rubbish I say!

 

Look into the complexities of Sonic's character and I think you'll find a character of great;

 

- Rationality

- Understanding

- and selflessness

 

First example? Sonic Adventure

 

When push came to shove and Chaos managed to flood Station Square in a torrent of murderous revenge for the deaths of it's Chao friends thousands of years before, Sonic was pretty outraged, even going so far as to demand who the hell Chaos thinks he (It?) is.

 

Yet despite his anger at Chaos' actions, Sonic still is possessed of a rational mind. When Tikal insists in a panicked manner on sealing him again inside the Master Emerald because he's absorbed a portion of the Chaos Emerald's powers and seemingly made them defunct, Sonic ain't down with that and reasons that if Chaos is sealed away in his current state of mind, this won't change a thing. He'll still be outraged and he'll have to deal with a heart full of turmoil. No doubt he'd be an even bigger menace should he be freed again because he'd feel wronged for having been sealed on top of still being enraged over the Knuckles' tribe's actions in the past.

 

Sonic not only wanted to free Chaos of it's grievance, he also had future generations in mind as well clearly intent on making sure the same thing never happens again.

 

Second example; The Sonic Rush games.

 

In this pair, Sonic sympathizes with Blaze's outlook, outwardly tough appearance and inwardly emotional nature.

 

When he confronts her at Dead Line Zone, he acknowledges that carrying the weight of the world on one's shoulder's is a tough load to bear, a load that is made even tougher by one's lack of friends or one's reluctance to rely on anyone else.

 

Upon defeating her and still noting how she's dead set on carrying out her 'duty', Sonic acknowledges that whilst she is "overzealous", she appears to have had a rough past and shows that he has a good gist concerning why she acts the way she does, showing understanding.

 

 

He then introduces himself in a very friendly manner and Blaze seems to come around and change her attitude a bit and becomes friendlier as well

 

 

Why? Because Sonic next to Cream is probably the first person in her life Blaze feels comfortable around, enough to open-up to because of his honest and amiable personality. His competence also convinces her that he can be relied-upon when he states afterwards that he'll set the two Eggmen right.

 

It is Cream's and Sonic's outlooks on friendship and kindness that allow Blaze to develop, open up and realize that she can rely on her friends if she allows herself to make them instead of thinking that it is her duty to shoulder hardship and responsibility by herself. Even after others chastised her and alienated her because of her powers and position, it is Cream's and Sonic's goodness that makes her realize that not everyone is like that. The ultimate realization is what allows her to tap into the Sol Emerald's powers, a feat she couldn't accomplish before. It makes her realize that her attitude towards her job as guardian of the Sol Emeralds put her world in danger and put a huge burden on herself

 

Now enlightened to how to competently carry out her duty by embracing help when she needs it as well as embracing friendship, Blaze has very cool character development that sticks.

 

In Sonic Rush Adventure, Blaze still retains her character development she got in Rush. Interestingly, Sonic still has to set her on the right path. This time, he doesn't drill it into her that she can rely on her friends but that as the leader of her world and the controller of the Sol Emeralds, only she can bring her people salvation and in order to achieve this, she must maintain a level head;

 

 

This is effectively an extension of Sonic's selflessness; He reasons with Blaze in order to make her focus on the issue her people face rather than focusing on her own rage and hatred towards the Eggmen when they boast about wiping her kingdom off the map. He's telling her to think of her beloved people rather than her own feelings and makes her acknowledge her duty as their princess - To prevent their suffering and to uphold their right to peace.

 

Third example; Sonic Storybook duo

 

Ah yes, the games that, IMO, contain the platinum standard of Sonic characterization and storytelling.

 

Let me start with Secret Rings first. After all, it is canonically the first Storybook game that happens.

 

I don't think I've seen a more selfless and understanding iteration of Sonic. Despite taking a flame arrow to the heart and being given a Morton's Fork to deal with, Shahra's peace of mind is one of his priorities. He frequently insists that she shouldn't worry about his curse and shouldn't be holding herself culpable for his predicament even going so far as to promise her that he'll have her smiling by the end of their adventure, sealing it with a pinkie swear. Fixated at not worrying her, he even apologizes for dropping to his knees and saying that his time is about up, confessing that he certainly doesn't mean to worry her. Her emotional state of mind is one of his priorities despite the pickle he's in himself.

 

When she intercepts Erazor's strike on him and dies in his arms, he makes it clear that he believes that her betrayal of him was not her fault no doubt because he notices the degree of emotional control Erazor has over her. This actually shows how perceptive he really is. This is hinted before when he asks about what her connection to Erazor is upon finding the Purple World Ring; Noticing her reluctance, he says that if she'd rather not talk about it then that's OK with him.

 

Upon sealing Erazor is his lamp for eternity, Sonic looks rather downtrodden himself at Shahra's despair possibly because contrary to the promise he made to her, she's sad at the end of their adventure rather than happy because he had to forcibly terminate their relationship. Of course one of Sonic's consistently stated dislikes is tears. Maybe it's a combination of both that makes him look momentarily downtrodden.

 

 

In a really sweet gesture that too many fans completely miss the point of, he sets aside their promise in order to drive it into her that she should grieve in whatever way she wishes and for as long as she needs to, hence the wish for a lot of handkerchiefs. This wish (And his wishes of Erazor) also has the effect of making Sonic out to be a character who has his priorities set straight; He's happy with his life. He don't need no instant magical fix that can give him whatever he wants. His wishes were for the benefit of everyone else but himself.

 

Now for Black Knight.

 

In this masterful portrayal of Sonic's outlook on life and moral character, Sonic makes it clear to Caliburn that he's a guy who plays by his own rules whether it be his approach to swordsmanship or his approach to dealing with the enemies he faces and the problems of the people he encounters.

 

Whilst he was intent on serving the greater good by putting an end to Arthur's reign of tyranny and terror, that doesn't exactly take precedence over what he feels also needs to be done such as helping the small child and his/her family. His morality would not let him overlook the child's despair despite the fact that he had bigger fish to fry

 

 

Sonic's compassion ultimately benefits him when the child reveals herself as Nimue in disguise. By saving the villagers above putting Nimue's requests first, he still showed moral fibre, strength and courage in the process and showed Nimue that he is capable of taking down Arthur which compels her to reveal to him the secret of blunting Arthur's immortality-bestowing scabbard. This effectively allows him to accomplish what he was summoned into the storybook world to do.

 

Upon saving Percival's life without any second thought, Caliburn, who started off being cold and irreverent of Sonic warms up to him, acknowledges that he has mastered the code of chivalry and gives him his Knighthood and title.

 

When Merlina's plot is put into motion and the Knights of the Round Table are put-out by this, it is Sonic who reminds them of their priorities, a clever snap-back to his reminding of Blaze of her priorities in SRA when the Eggmen taunt her about annihilating her kingdom and enrage her. Again, another extension of Sonic's selflessness because he's getting the Knights to think about Camelot's people, the salvation of which is their job.

 

Upon facing Merlina, his dislike of sadness is revealed to to also stretch to a dislike of one-sided sadness, sadness that is selfish. Merlina wants to preserve her world in stasis just to escape her own sorrow at it's future (This is outright said by Excalibur in the following boss fight) without regard to the effects it would have on the citizens of the kingdom. Having a special hatred of this sort of sadness, Sonic becomes truly furious and makes the first move only to be swatted away as if he's nothing.

 

Even when Merlina also violently objects to Sonic challenging her ideals and bisects Caliburn for good measure, Sonic keeps up the attack and then reveals that his knighthood doesn't define his moralities; He's not doing it explicitly out of chilvalry, he's acting out of interest of his own ideals and he'll defend those ideals no matter how much Merlina batters him.

 

Lucky for Sonic this sense of determination rekindles Excalbur's long lost light and has the effect of turning him into Excalibur-Sonic and repairing Caliburn, transforming him into Excalibur and giving Sonic the means to truly face Merlina 1-on-1.

 

After Merlina is neutralized and shows no semblance of defiance or unrepentance, Sonic lays out his views on life; It would have no meaning if it went on forever despite acknowledging that the inevitability of the end is "Kinda sad". They have to live out life to the fullest in the time they have. In order to get across the notion of fragile beauty, he hands her the flower she picked earlier when she mused that there was no point to flowers blooming if they were destined to wither.

 

 

You have to appreciate that beauty despite inevitability of the end.

 

Too much in one post @_@ Next up; Colours and Unleashed.

 

You are most welcome to discuss the 'hidden depths' of the other characters This isn't a Sonic only topic. I'd love to see more elaborations and interpretations

Edited January 20, 2013 by Vertekins

[Wraith]

Yeah, no offence, but all you did was cement in my mind how generic and flawless and shonen heroy as a whole Sonic is.

Not to mention you actually made the likes of Blaze, Merlina, Chaos and Shahra look more like an actual deph filled character than Sonic himself.

[Tornado]

I'm not going to break this down into individual issues with the examples presented, but I will point out one thing: Overwhelming selflessness driving character actions, which is what the majority of your write up revolves around Sonic having in games, is only a smidge or two away from Incorruptible Pure Pureness. And of all of the things that could be brought up to explain why Sonic is not a generic Shonen hero, that is the absolute worst thing that you could have centered on to demonstrate it; being a character trait that is almost as intertwined with the popular concept of Shonen as tournament arcs and the power of friendship.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Tornado

[Diogenes]

- Rationality

- Understanding

- and selflessness

*yawn*

 

Being a really super great heroic guy isn't really a whole lot of depth.

[Blue Blood]

I only read up to the Secret Rings paragraph because I'd read enough by that point. You said Sonic wasn't a typical shonen hero, and then went on to post a number of examples proving that he's exactly that. 

 

There's nothing particularly outstanding about Sonic and the rest of the supporting cast. They're not objectively bad characters, just wholly shallow, simple and unremarkable. I like 'em, and that's it. I don't think much more of them than that because there's nothing more to think about beyond that.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Blue Blood

[Chaos Warp]

This is great and all, and it shows Sonic's depth as a character, but where's the negative aspects of Sonic to balance this stuff out? This just makes him seem overly perfect.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[---]

*yawn*

 

Being a really super great heroic guy isn't really a whole lot of depth.

UuUuUugh who the hell cares? At this point I think we look way too deep into this. It's a cartoon blue hedgehog with a young demographic, how deep does it really have to be, jeez this isn't Marvel. 

[Chaos Warp]

UuUuUugh who the hell cares? At this point I think we look way too deep into this. It's a cartoon blue hedgehog with a young demographic, how deep does it really have to be, jeez this isn't Marvel. 

Just because something is for kids, doesn't mean it has to, or has an excuse to be shallow.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[Soniman]

UuUuUugh who the hell cares? At this point I think we look way too deep into this. It's a cartoon blue hedgehog with a young demographic, how deep does it really have to be, jeez this isn't Marvel. 

 

Considering what Marvel is doing to their flagship character, this is a good thing.

[Vertekins]

This is great and all, and it shows Sonic's depth as a character, but where's the negative aspects of Sonic to balance this stuff out? This just makes him seem overly perfect.

 

You wanna see the negative parts of Sonic's personality and such? Sure, I'll get around to doing that Hidden depths aren't just about the positives.

[...]

UuUuUugh who the hell cares? At this point I think we look way too deep into this. It's a cartoon blue hedgehog with a young demographic, how deep does it really have to be, jeez this isn't Marvel. 

 

"Who the hell cares" is not really something to say to begin your rebuttal. And what Chaos Warps said, though the main demographics is kids, it doesn't have to be shallow. What makes characters interesting is personality, traits, depth.

[Carbo]

All those examples are really good examples as to why Sonic is such a boring character and also why I don't see why people think so highly of the stories when the character they're built around is predictable. Just a bunch of generic super hero traits played in the straightest of ways possible with no flaws that downplay his abilities. Only time it almost happens in Secret Rings and he turns into a Ferrari.

UuUuUugh who the hell cares? At this point I think we look way too deep into this. It's a cartoon blue hedgehog with a young demographic, how deep does it really have to be, jeez this isn't Marvel. 

I'm not sure who you're arguing for here; the OP who is trying to prove Sonic is deep as a character or the people who are saying the complete contrary. Either way your post is totally pointless and is the lowest common denominator to murder discussion like this, don't post it if you have nothing better to do.

[---]

Just because something is for kids, doesn't mean it has to, or has an excuse to be shallow.

Does it being shallow automatically make it BAD? I don't wanna have to do it, but look at the classic games, they're hailed objectively as some of the greatest Sonic games in the series, yet Sonic really doesn't say anything (save for the 4 meager words in CD). It's a game series, I feel the most important thing about the game is the gameplay. Another example is Mario, he's not praised for his personality traits, he's praised for his gameplay. As long as Sonic's still showin' his 'tude the designers based him on then I'm not seeing the problem, it's not a motion picture we're talking about.

[Wraith]

I know full well that Sonic is as deep as a puddle, and he doesn't actually need to be complex to begin with, so people need to stop pretending he is. The entire OP just restates the obvious and acts like it runs deeper than it actually does. We know Sonic is selfless and understanding. Now what about this is depth filled in the slightest? Not saying Sonic being shallow is a bad thing. Static characterization doesn't equal unlikable.

[Chaos Warp]

Does it being shallow automatically make it BAD? I don't wanna have to do it, but look at the classic games, they're hailed objectively as some of the greatest Sonic games in the series, yet Sonic really doesn't say anything (save for the 4 meager words in CD). It's a game series, I feel the most important thing about the game is the gameplay. Another example is Mario, he's not praised for his personality traits, he's praised for his gameplay. As long as Sonic's still showin' his 'tude the designers based him on then I'm not seeing the problem, it's not a motion picture we're talking about.

Of course, but is it wrong to have depth (or want depth) in a character in a video game? Yes, gameplay is most important by a long shot but with new technology games now have the ability to tell a compelling narrative, and good characters and narrative can help draw you into the game world. 

 

And for the record, one of the reasons I like Mario less then Sonic (still love both though) personally is because Sonic has a more fun and likable personality then Mario IMO. 

Edited January 20, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[Mega]

This is why I like the SatAM version of Sonic so much. Call him annoying or what have you, but I like that he has explicit flaws to balance out his skills and positive attributes.

That being said, that is a solid write-up, but it's a lot harder to find flaws in game Sonic, possibly because SEGA doesn't want him to be all that flawed. Idk.

[sonfan1984]

 Another example is Mario, he's not praised for his personality traits, he's praised for his gameplay.

 

That's because Mario barely even have a personality to praise. That's what makes Sonic appeals to me way more as a character then Mario. Sonic has a personality. Mario doesn't.

Edited January 20, 2013 by sonfan1984

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Honestly, what bugs me more is not the fact that he has these traits, but rather that the negative traits he is said to have seem to be only there for the sake of making it seem like he has flaws, or the things that should have some kind of doubled edged consequence if used in the wrong situation rarely get capitalized on. The end result is that he ends up feeling not too different from one of those...certain characters that shall never be mentioned.

 

I'll add more once I'm finished ordering pizza.

Edited January 20, 2013 by I R Lothar

[---]

Of course, but is it wrong to have depth (or want depth) in a character in a video game? Yes, gameplay is most important by a long shot but with new technology games now have the ability to tell a compelling narrative, and good characters and narrative can help draw you into the game world. 

 

And for the record, one of the reasons I like Mario over Sonic personally is because Sonic has a more fun personality then Mario. 

I agree. However, Sonic Team has recently shown that they are moving away from huge stories, which puts it right back at the gameplay. Sure there's new tech, but an epic narrative isn't the only way to draw out the world of a game or showcase a character.  (and I think you meant to say you like Sonic's world better than Mario...right? Confusing last statement D;)

 

 

That's because Mario barely even have a personality to praise. That's what makes Sonic appeals to me way more as a character then Mario. Sonic has a personality. Mario doesn't.

 

 

Not gonna lie, that's the same with me too. However, I just don't feel that a character has to have layer on layer of cinematic-level character to be considered good. Sometimes simple works. I can't help but think of Sonic 06 when I think of Sonic characters trying to be deep and complex. Remember Silver deciding whether or not he should murder Sonic to save everyone? I just don't think it should ever go that far in a Sonic game for the sake of trying to develop a cartoon character with a young demographic and such a wacky premise.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Extruder

[Nepenthe]

Does it being shallow automatically make it BAD? I don't wanna have to do it, but look at the classic games, they're hailed objectively as some of the greatest Sonic games in the series, yet Sonic really doesn't say anything (save for the 4 meager words in CD). It's a game series, I feel the most important thing about the game is the gameplay. Another example is Mario, he's not praised for his personality traits, he's praised for his gameplay. As long as Sonic's still showin' his 'tude the designers based him on then I'm not seeing the problem, it's not a motion picture we're talking about.

 

Stop. The gameplay being the most important aspect of a game does not mean you can phone in everything else. The moment you've got a protagonist and an antagonist with defined personalities, goals, and extensive voice acting, you've got a story, and as such you should attempt to write a good one because it's really ass-backwards to write a bad one even on the excuse that another part of the work is more important or is working just fine. And fuck the classics; this "only gameplay matters, why do you need a story" sentiment is holding games back as a medium because it does nothing but advocate for lesser products. That's literally what you're doing, and it blows my mind whenever anyone does it.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you believe stories have or should have a minimal impact on games, that's fine. Sega allotted skipping cutscenes to the Start button so you can ignore the story to your heart's content. But to declare that story doesn't matter as much, and then trying to dictate that story and characterization doesn't need to be deep, is butting into a conversation that you have no stake in and trying to dictate what everyone else is supposed to settle for and be happy with. If the story is a fleeting element of games that has no effect on the final product's quality, it shouldn't matter to you that Sonic ever becomes Shakespearean in writing, much less that the writing's bad, but you're also arguing Sonic shouldn't be deep because, well, games; that we should be stuck with shit stories. You're having your cake and eating it too, and I'm sick of it. So stop.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Nepenthe

[Diogenes]

UuUuUugh who the hell cares?

People who care about the story. If you don't, then what's it matter to you if we talk about it? 

how deep does it really have to be, jeez this isn't Marvel. 

Superhero comics aren't exactly a high bar, y'know. 

Does it being shallow automatically make it BAD?

Yeah, kinda.

I don't wanna have to do it, but look at the classic games, they're hailed objectively as some of the greatest Sonic games in the series, yet Sonic really doesn't say anything (save for the 4 meager words in CD).

Yeah, they're great in the gameplay department, but you're not going to find much praise for the story. That's the part we're discussing here, y'know.

It's a game series, I feel the most important thing about the game is the gameplay.

That doesn't mean we can't care about anything else. By this logic, why care about Sonic, the character, at all? Say, to the point of having a Sonic avatar?

but an epic narrative isn't the only way to draw out the world of a game or showcase a character.

Okay, so, what? You think that they should have games that explore the world and characters, but we're not supposed to care about it?

[Tornado]

Honestly, what bugs me more is not the fact that he has these traits, but rather that the negative traits he is said to have seem to be only there for the sake of making it seem like he has flaws

This is the other main problem with Sonic as he has been written for the past... since Adventure basically. The various supplemental material says that he has various other aspects to his personality, but when do they ever actually happen? Him being impatient has basically morphed into "gets everything done quickly" rather than the annoyance that he expressed before, and the closest we ever see to him being short-tempered outside of Sonic X basically amounts to him furrowing his brow a bit more when something truly bad happens for all the difference it makes in his actions.

Even Ichigo of all characters got pissed off at things on occasion.

 

I'll add more once I'm finished ordering pizza.

 

A man's gotta have priorities.

 

 

 

Does it being shallow automatically make it BAD? I don't wanna have to do it, but look at the classic games, they're hailed objectively as some of the greatest Sonic games in the series, yet Sonic really doesn't say anything (save for the 4 meager words in CD).

 

Not being vocal doesn't mean the same thing as being without a personality.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Tornado

[Alluusio]

Okay, Sonic plays by his own rules which often happens to lead to right choices but when you think about it, isn't it kind of selfish? When he goes up against Merlina, he doesn't even tell her why he thinks Merlina is wrong. He just attacks her while shouting that he doesn't even want to understand her. He just wants to stop her. Isn't that kind of different to how he acted when Perfect Chaos was on the loose? There, instead of listening to Tikal and immediately sealing Chaos away and preventing further destruction from happening, he decides to go solo and calm Chaos down without even thinking about the destruction that is happening while he and Chaos battle it out. Is that truly such a selfless act? 

 

Another result of doing things his way is telling everyone else what to do. This is especially visible in those Sonic Rush pictures. Blaze has done things her way up to this point and apparently it has worked out. Then Sonic suddenly has the need to tell Blaze that his way of doing things is better. And what's worse, Sonic doesn't even live up to his own rules. After telling Blaze that it's okay to rely on others, Sonic just goes and fights Eggman all by himself while telling Blaze to stay back. And in that SRA picture it just looked like Sonic was trying to look smart but instead turned out to look like an obnoxious and patronizing moron. He doesn't really seem to rely on his friends that much when he constantly has the need to tell them what to do. Then again, that's just how I feel.

[Emmett L. Brown]

I think the overwhelmingly cynical responses to this topic are caused by the idea that depth has to equal angst or drama. The point being made here is that there's more to Sonic than 1) Sonic See Evil 2) Sonic Thwart Evil which is indeed a shallow and boring presentation of a hero.

 

What I really like about Sonic is that he's a character who already has his personal ideals and philosphy laid out from the beginning. He knows who he is, and he enjoys what he does. It's honestly refreshing after so many tedious anti-heroes and self-doubting protagonists. Does that mean he's flawless? Hell no. He makes mistakes all the time. In Sonic Adventure he, like the rest of the cast, completely missed the point of Tikal's visions and went after Eggman when he should've focused on Chaos instead. In Sonic & the Secret Rings his trusting nature let him be completely fooled by Shahra's treachery. Sonic may not be as gullible as Knuckles, but he's naive enough that he fell for Merlina's betrayal as well. And in Sonic Colors, Sonic would've completely failed to save the world if not for a total fluke, since he never figured out about Eggman's planetary mind control laser. For all his empathy and insight, Sonic is book-dumb, leaps before he thinks, and is easy to fool by a calculating villain.

 

Not every hero has to have deep emotional issues that they have to overcome through personal growth. It's a pleasure to get a reprieve from that trope from time to time.

[Tornado]

I think the overwhelmingly cynical responses to this topic are caused by the idea that depth has to equal angst or drama. The point being made here is that there's more to Sonic than 1) Sonic See Evil 2) Sonic Thwart Evil which is indeed a shallow and boring presentation of a hero.

No, the point being made with this topic was:

 

to dispel the notion that Sonic as a character is nothing more complex than the average shonen hero

If pointing out that the OP doesn't actually do that with the reasoning provided is overwhelmingly cynical and longing for angst and drama, then so be it.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Tornado