Modern Sonic Games Too Linear?

[Chaos Warp]

Linearity isn't the problem as far as I'm concerned.

I really don't care how linear or broad a stage is, as long as the level design within it is good and I enjoy the challenge of getting through it.

I could care less how open the classics were, what matters most is good level design and fun. If you must sacrifice open-ness and introduce linearity from time to time to achieve that, then so be it.

 

 

 

Crisis City, Wave Ocean, Flame Core, Dusty Desert, Radical Train, Kingdom Valley and Aquatic Base were all massively linear. So I ask you? How is it non-linear?

Also Sonic games are by definition, linear. You go from point A to point B. You're not permitted to occupy each stage and fuck about as you would in say GTA. It doesn't matter how many different routes there are, in the end, its still a linear progression.

 

EDIT:

Riverstone, I honestly don't think that moveset would work. 

 

X = evade. OK, evade in what way? Wouldn't it amount to the dodge-roll/quick step we have already? Wouldn't it be easier to map it to the triggers in the exact same way?

It could be like the quick-step, but evades projectiles and other enemy attacks, making enemies more of a threat without breaking the pace of the game? I do agree it would be better mapped to LB or L1 or something though. 

LT + A = Boost Jump. But why? What is the need for a completely separate jumping move?

Maybe he doesn't enter his ball form when doing that jump, and therefore leaves himself vulnerable not able to preform any homing attack or otherwise, making it something you should use only when the situation calls for it?

RT + A = Propulsion towards hard objects. So that's effectively the homing attack/Jump dash/air-boost. Why does this need such a cumbersome button slots?

It could be a ground-based attack, like the boost but very nerfed. Could be multipurpose, to break through stuff and attack enemies. I imagine it like a tackle: do it, and Sonic momentarily bursts forward to attack, then reverts to the speed he was travelling at the moment he initiated the tackle. It could be better mapped to X though.

In addition, Mach Speed sections need to die in a fire. Sonic should always be fast, no need to seperate the fast from the slow for no real reason. This is one of the many reasons 06 was bad.

No arguments here........

Besides, I don't see how having such a clunky moveset would make for a more interesting and skillful platformer? Why should you need to slow down time?

I think the clunkiness comes from the button mapping and not the moveset itself. I believe these moves could make for something potentially interesting if implemented properly. The time slow move could be like a "Sonic Speed" thing where everything slows down but him, and Sonic has extra blur effects or something around himself to signify that he's going faster. Could be used to better evade enemy's attacks (again to give a bit more to combat without flow-breaking), and like Riverstone said, to get past hazards easier. 

One other thing. I really don't get the resemblance of the Unleashed gameplay to a racing game....Sure you're almost always going forward and the level design is linear. However, you have to platform and simple though it may be, it simply doesn't resemble racing games in the slightest.

 

No arguments here. 

To sum up, I don thing the concepts of these moves are a problem, just the button mapping.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[Tornado]

How I yearn for a remake of 3D Blast on a proper 3D engine.

[SilentDoom]

I love it when people like to think that 06's supposed non linearity was a good thing.  News flash: It wasn't.

 

I'm not saying the concept of non linearity is a poor one (although to be honest, non linearity is a bad term for it.  I think a more fitting term would be open to a greater degree of exploration), but that 06 executed it poorly.  The classics did it well for example.  Heck even Colours in my opinion did a better job.

 

The reason why is because 06's level design is so bland and baron there's little reason to try and explore it.  Levels drag on for too long and the most enjoyable parts of the levels are when you're not actually playing them (yay for automation).  White Acropolis in my opinion is the perfect example of this.  The level is open.  Really quite open.  There's a lot of space in it.  Yet it's an abysmal level for many reasons.  It looks disgusting, the level formations and layouts are very stock and generic, everything looks the same (it's just snow and searchlights).  There's nothing memorable or interesting about that level.  There is no incentive to explore that level, because there's nothing interesting to see in it.  Open ended level design that offers that greater degree of exploration only works (in my opinion) if said alternate routes are interesting, engaging, memorable and offer you an incentive to visit them.

 

To answer the topic question, linearity isn't as much of an issue in current modern games as so much the mechanics surrounding Sonic and said level design.  It's not so much there aren't enough alternate routes but more there aren't enough interesting ways to get to said routes and not enough of an incentive to try to visit them.  For example, when I play through Generations now I no longer try to explore the level but rather just try to get through it as quickly as possible.  Even when I was exploring the level, it was so that I could find the quickest routes.  In games like Sonic 2 and 3&K, I could explore levels for the enjoyment of exploring them and seeing what was hidden.  Even to this day I still love taking slightly different paths from my norm to see if I can find any new item boxes/special stage rings.  This was also made really fun due to the terrain and moment based physics.  There are a good few instances when leaping off an incline will take you to one route, but timing your jump a little later/earlier or approaching the incline at a different speed could take you to somewhere else.  It just felt so good to explore because of how satisfying the mechanics were.

 

tl;dr - Linearity's not the problem.  The way in which level design is approached is.

[Emmett L. Brown]

*ignore that 'mario has' at the end. Now, as an example, we could add momentum based gameplay, like everyone suggests and i think is a great idea. But also more moves for different situations. For example: (and these should be combined to create complex and skillfil level design)

RT + A = will make sonic do a vertical boost jump (few meters high)

LT + A = will make sonic propel forward to smash through hard objects.

B = spindash + rolling down slopes to gain moment to reach higher places.

Y = (metered) will make sonic slow down time (for fast fans and lasers etc).

X = evade. Gives you slow down time for bosses.

A = standard jump + homing.

In my opinion. These moves create a far more intersting and skillfil platformer and dont resemble a racing car mechanic. Althogh sonic should probably run at sonic adventure speed for this to full work. Momentum down slopes would create the fast thrill seeking parts though. And leave the boost for selected intense mach speed sections only.

Id really also like to see a return to puzzle solving. Eg: rolling over lit squares in sequence, or having to smash a few walls to allow water to flow to an area which will open up a new pathway etc..

I'm not crazy about thos specific button combinations, but I really do like the notion of a bullet time mechanic for Sonic. However, instead of being something you can trigger at will, it should work so that once you reach maximum accelleration the obstacles and enemies slow down, mimicking the idea of Sonic moving at borderline-unplayable speeds while still being perfectly controllable since from the player's perspective he's moving at a manageable pace..

 

Naturally, you should be able to slow down momentarily to dodge or for precision platforming, but the more you slow down the sooner the bullet time effect diminishes until you need to reach max speed again to get it back. Something like the P-meter from Super Mario bros 3, only instead of letting you fly it give you super-reflexes.

[Diogenes]

How often would bullet time be useful at top speed, though? Also I'm not sure it'd be any more exciting; even if Sonic is theoretically(?) moving faster, that's kind of a purely intellectual interpretation of speed, not a sensation of it. Like, the Earth is whipping through space at I-don't-even-know MPH, and that's cool, but it doesn't feel fast to simply be on the Earth.

 

Also time slowing's a gimmick better suited for Shadow anyway.

[Emmett L. Brown]

How often would bullet time be useful at top speed, though? Also I'm not sure it'd be any more exciting; even if Sonic is theoretically(?) moving faster, that's kind of a purely intellectual interpretation of speed, not a sensation of it. Like, the Earth is whipping through space at I-don't-even-know MPH, and that's cool, but it doesn't feel fast to simply be on the Earth.

 

Also time slowing's a gimmick better suited for Shadow anyway.

How it would be useful? Basically, it'd mean allowing ludicrously high speeds like in Sonic Unleashed without reducing the player's ability to respond to incoming hazards to nill. Imagine a section where Sonic's running through a forest, chased by robots. Normally reaching top speed would make it really damn hard to move between trees and rocks and whatever effectively, but with a super-reflexes gimmick you can go as fast as you want without needing to sacrifice control.

 

The only good thing I have to say about Sonic 06 is that abusing the gems was fun, and activating the slow time gem before engaging a group of enemies gave me a great feeling of "Hey, I'm a superfast hedgehog that can run circles around these guys, way too fast for them to be able to hit me". I'd like to see that effect done in a competently programmed game.

 

Furthermore, by having the bullet time effect limited to being able to maintain max accelleration for a brief period, you're rewarding players who can keep up their speed, which is part of the Sonic experience and a nice nod to Sonic CD.

[Chaos Warp]

I'm not crazy about thos specific button combinations, but I really do like the notion of a bullet time mechanic for Sonic. However, instead of being something you can trigger at will, it should work so that once you reach maximum accelleration the obstacles and enemies slow down, mimicking the idea of Sonic moving at borderline-unplayable speeds while still being perfectly controllable since from the player's perspective he's moving at a manageable pace..

 

Naturally, you should be able to slow down momentarily to dodge or for precision platforming, but the more you slow down the sooner the bullet time effect diminishes until you need to reach max speed again to get it back. Something like the P-meter from Super Mario bros 3, only instead of letting you fly it give you super-reflexes.

Nah, I think it would be better on a gauge. I think it would feel jarring for everything to slow down once you hit top speed, personally. 

[Diogenes]

How it would be useful? Basically, it'd mean allowing ludicrously high speeds like in Sonic Unleashed

But it doesn't, does it? You're not going at ludicrous speeds, you're going at regular high speeds and everything else is slowing down.

That aside, I can't see it being of much use unless they're still designing levels like Unleashed. If you're required to do much more than run forward and quick step out of the way, I can't imagine that you'd keep bullet time for very long.

[Frogging101]

But it doesn't, does it? You're not going at ludicrous speeds, you're going at regular high speeds and everything else is slowing down.

That aside, I can't see it being of much use unless they're still designing levels like Unleashed. If you're required to do much more than run forward and quick step out of the way, I can't imagine that you'd keep bullet time for very long.

 

Isn't that what bullet time is for though? Running forward and quickstepping isn't very hard even at high speeds. Bullet time becomes useful when you are required to do more than that.

[Diogenes]

But if bullet time is tied to your speed, and if you slow down you start to lose it, how much can you do without losing it?

[Emmett L. Brown]

But it doesn't, does it? You're not going at ludicrous speeds, you're going at regular high speeds and everything else is slowing down.

That aside, I can't see it being of much use unless they're still designing levels like Unleashed. If you're required to do much more than run forward and quick step out of the way, I can't imagine that you'd keep bullet time for very long.

You just answered your own question. Genuinely moving at ludicrious speeds doesn't offer much in the way of imaginative level design, since you're down to boosting, quick-stepping, and homing attacking. For everything else you must slow down. A simulated effect of moving at ludicrous speeds would allow far more in the way of intelligent enemies that can react quickly to Sonic's moves, and challenging stage hazards that require far more skill than tapping a shoulder button to circumvent.

 

The bullet time effect should require skill to maintain, and therefore function as a reward. Being able to run circles around a group of enemies and hit their weak spots before they can react would be very rewarding when you normally have to be very careful. I'm talking less Egg Pawns and more Artificial Chaos (not literally, those are just examples).

 

Sonic's non-bullet time top speed should be something in the area of his Sonic Adventure running speed. No boost whatsoever.