Level Design in the Sonic Series

[KHCast]

So we've ALL heard this in the Sonic Community. Level design. In good ways and negative ways. Lots of arguments have been created from this word. 

 

Mainly it's the 3D games that people talk about most of the time when they are referring to level design in the series. Ever since the Adventure games Sega have tried things to make their games interesting. Some have succeeded,some have failed. What are your thoughts on the issue? How do you want level design to be done in the games? I know it's heavily divided here, with many wanting a new approach, some wanting Sega to go back to the Adventure games design and style and try and fully unlock its potential, while some, are fine with what Sega have released as of late.

 

Personally for me, I'd like to see something of a mix between the Classic style and the Adventure games. Don't get me wrong, I like the current style, but there's only so much you can do with that before it just get stale. I think Sega could really capture that Sonic essence with blending the level design that the adventure games and classic's offered. opening up way's to always keep players on their toes. Interacting with the levels, finding new ways to use sonic's abilities rewarding the player, alternate characters there's a lot.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Vanitas

[Clouder]

I'd like a mix of CD's psychedelic environment and Adventure's design.

[Diogenes]

Too narrow, too flat, too automated. That's what 3D Sonic has been cursed with, each to varying extents, since its inception. The levels focus too much on just running forward over mostly-flat land with anything interesting being largely automated. We need more space to move around in, we need more complex surfaces to interact with, and we need the tools and the freedom to do cool things on our own instead of waiting for the game to do them.

[Clouder]

Too narrow, too flat, too automated. That's what 3D Sonic has been cursed with, each to varying extents, since its inception. The levels focus too much on just running forward over mostly-flat land with anything interesting being largely automated. We need more space to move around in, we need more complex surfaces to interact with, and we need the tools and the freedom to do cool things on our own instead of waiting for the game to do them.

So you want Green Hill Paradise? 

[KHCast]

So you want Green Hill Paradise? 

No. Hell. no. That is TOO OPEN. And can we please stop using it as a example of Sonic in 3D? It's been used way to much.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Vanitas

[Clouder]

No. Hell. no. That is TOO OPEN. And can we please stop using it as a example of Sonic in 3D? It's been used way to much.

I'm not. Diogenes' idea reminds me of Green Hill Paradise. 

[KHCast]

I'm not. Diogenes' idea reminds me of Green Hill Paradise. 

Well IMO There really isn't that much interaction with the world itself if you ask me. And all Sonic would do is run. And slopes. everywhere. It really wasn't interesting. Sonic wasn't doing anything special. 

Edited January 31, 2013 by Vanitas

[Diogenes]

No, I'm not suggesting directionless open-world levels. They still need intentionally designed routes with a clear direction leading you towards the goal. But they shouldn't be hallways.

[Clouder]

No, I'm not suggesting directionless open-world levels. They still need intentionally designed routes with a clear direction leading you towards the goal. But they shouldn't be hallways.

I agree. *Cough*Heroes06Unleashed*Cough*

[KHCast]

I agree. *Cough*Heroes06Unleashed*Cough*

Oh wait. Misread that.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Vanitas

[Clouder]

Oh wait. Misread that.

[PickleBrows]

While they don't annoy me personally I would say that bottomless pits are 99% of the time used in a cheap way that pretty much seems like an excuse for them to not make multi-tier level design. Take Sonic CD, one bottomless pit in the entire game (a pretty huge one I'll grant you) and outside of that it is impossible for you to die from pit deaths since they don't exist. It also doesn't help that they can cause confusion as to what is deadly and what isn't: Fall down one pit and you die, fall down another and there's another route, 1 up etc. Although Colours and Generations sorted it with the pit signs admittedly.

[Animatedmusic]

I think the level design is getting better in Sonic Generations

Sky Sanctuary is a good example (for most of the time)

also the intro of Planet Wisp there is how I want level design in a Sonic game.

not too linear and not too open.

[Clouder]

Maybe something like the 3d Mario Games where you can interact with people and complete missions in the level to gain items.

They did something like that in Black Knight.

[Spin Attaxx]

I'm not an expert in level design (far from it) but in my opinion, first off:

 

GET RID OF THE FUCKING BOOSTERS IN FRONT OF LOOPS.

[Clouder]

I'm not an expert in level design (far from it) but in my opinion, first off:

 

GET RID OF THE @#!*% BOOSTERS IN FRONT OF LOOPS.

2nd the motion.

[Milo]

In regardance to 2D Dimps games starting with Sonic 4: Episode I, the level design from their games suffers from too much automation. The entire Sonic 4 saga is the biggest offender of this, with automated scripts and dash panels/speed boosters up the ass, which are mainly there to cover up the shoddy physics work (but that's another matter entirely). Their level design is also rather notable for being full of "straight lines" (biggest offenders of this here are Advance 2 and Sonic Unleashed Wii/PS2), and in recent games it seems that they don't use level-themed gimmicks well (let alone use many of them), and they also tend to have poor/lazy enemy/badnik placement; despite Sonic 4 having some good examples of both enemies (at least badniks anyway) and level gimmicks.

 

Regarding to 2D sections from games developed by Sonic Team, at times you can end up with a awful lot of "block platforming" (as seen in Colors) as well as at times unhealthy amounts of automation (although this is a far cry from the amount of automation seen from Dimps). They also do suffer from acts of "straight line" level design as well (pretty much almost every boss from Sonic Colors applies). I do commend the return of multiple/alternative branches of level design and secret rooms (I think the best examples of this were Generations's Sky Sanctuary Act 1 and Seaside Hill Act 2), but they're still one or two country miles behind from the amount of which that was seen from the Genesis games. Same applies Sonic 4 (ironically), but to a much lesser extent.

 

And these are kinda unrelated, but I would perfer to not have bottomless pit signs as well as tutorial signs (applying to Sonic 4: Episode II only) return. They weren't too bad in Colors, but Generations had them everywhere, even in the harder levels-although to give Sonic Team some credit they did give you an option to allow people to turn it off. Sonic 4: Episode II handled this even worse, as not only were they everywhere in Generations, they weren't even optional. They just lower the overall difficulty of the game and don't challenge the player to using their intuition, which can reward players for their actions. The tutorial signs that game are just as bad as the bottomless pit signs, as they are for the most part quite frankly redundant, especially in later/harder levels-there's a reason why digital manuals and "How To Play" screens exist. Cheapens the difficulty/experience, clashes with the visuals, and again does not teach the player to use their intuition (although given that the co-op moves are required to get through the game, it's not like this would had mattered such anyway). One of the worst forms of "holding the player's hand" I've seen in a Sonic game, terrible random playtesters of recent Sonic games caught on off-screen cameras be damned.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Gabe