The North Korea Thread: Threats, Propaganda and a brewing Holocaust

[Patticus]

I love how Obama's not issuing public reactions to any of this. Bush Jr. would've waded in long ago. Hell, we'd probably be at war right now if the neocon hawks were still in charge. Assuming, that is, that America had extricated itself from Iraq and Libya and Syria...

I'd just hate to go to war against such a handsome and beloved foe, though...

 

 

 

Anyway, apparently South Korean news isn't reporting any of what's been going on, and South Koreans are still very blase about the whole affair; those that even know about it, at least. It's a bit worrying how their media seems to be ignoring the whole affair. Then again though, if there was panic, that would probably really satisfy the North.

[Stacy]

I love how Obama's not issuing public reactions to any of this. Bush Jr. would've waded in long ago. Hell, we'd probably be at war right now if the neocon hawks were still in charge.

 

If that idiot was in charge the whole of Korea would be a smoking crater right now. 

 

Maybe Obama is planing his moves and words carefully? The worst thing he could do right now is say the wrong thing.

Edited March 30, 2013 by BW199148

[Tani Coyote]

I love how Obama's not issuing public reactions to any of this.

 

Obama's always been the more reserved, silent type, for better or worse. On one hand some folks think it makes him look weak, but on the other it keeps him from making any statement he'll regret. He's naturally hoping to get the North to agree to some symbolic measure to make it look like he actually did something, just as the North is hoping we'll agree to some symbolic measure so they can claim victory.

 

Anyway, apparently South Korean news isn't reporting any of what's been going on, and South Koreans are still very blase about the whole affair; those that even know about it, at least. It's a bit worrying how their media seems to be ignoring the whole affair. Then again though, if there was panic, that would probably really satisfy the North.

 

I'm sure the South Korean people are aware of it due to the internet though. They probably just have learned to not care what the North says after so many decades of this on and off crap.

 

If that idiot was in charge the whole of Korea would be a smoking crater right now. 

 

Except we have the United States Congress. Which has one its houses in the hands of the normally anti-war Democrats.

[Stacy]

Except we have the United States Congress. Which has one its houses in the hands of the normally anti-war Democrats.

 

I know that was aimed at Bush not Obama. I found Bush a warmongering idiot. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Then why the big willy talk then?

Because I'm sick of their shit.

You don't take someone up on their threat just leave the alone. It is like trying to see if that bee in the corner will sting you. You know that it can, just leave it be.

If someone wants to fight me, after trying to avoid getting into one so long (and I'm talking about before this topic was made), and everything we have done has amounted to nothing and that person still wants to fight me because they didn't like me coming over to help a friend learn how to defend themselves, or simply because they flat out don't like me and are trying to intimidate me, I'm just going to show them the consequences.

 

This is like a rabid dog, remember? I don't wanna get bit, but it won't stop trying to bite me even if I gave it a doggie treat.

[Sami]

Something to note - it's an idea my American history teacher (he's also enlisted in the army and has been in combat in multiple wars) mentioned in regards to China and Taiwan:

 

North Korea, by fueling these conflicts, has put itself on a time-bomb. Think about it, if the impossible happens and the North Koreans somehow win South Korea... how long will it last before an uprising tears them apart? The ordinary civilians don't know anything about any countries apart from their own, but what's going to happen when they meet the South Koreans, and actually get a taste of what freedom is? The phrase my teacher used in particular was "freedom is poisonous", and I think he's right. The same applies to China taking over Taiwan. Yeah, it's a shame to lose a democratic country, but the ideas will spread, and in time, especially with our support, a more liberal, stable nation is practically inevitable.

 

Just food for thought. Their best bet would have been to shut up and keep to themselves.

[Stacy]

Because I'm sick of their shit.

If someone wants to fight me, after trying to avoid getting into one so long (and I'm talking about before this topic was made), and everything we have done has amounted to nothing and that person still wants to fight me because they didn't like me coming over to help a friend learn how to defend themselves, or simply because they flat out don't like me and are trying to intimidate me, I'm just going to show them the consequences.

 

This is like a rabid dog, remember? I don't wanna get bit, but it won't stop trying to bite me even if I gave it a doggie treat.

 

I am sick of Argentina's shit doesn't mean I encourage them to bomb me and my countryman even though I have joked about certain things. Its not worth it at least it is to me let them be the aggressor.

 

 

I would leave them alone. Its up to them now negotiate or attack. Let them make their move on the chess board rather than trying to do it for them that way if they do attack it will make them look like the aggressors which could bring in a lot of support in South Korea and  United States favour.

 

I think this what Obama is trying to do now after the B-2 Bomber Stunt. Thankfully the South are doing the same though this might be the US influencing them to do this. Though this not a bad thing.

 

The North have been quiet for a little while now and I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. With them being so secret for all we know they could of dug massive underground tunnels into South Korea waiting to emerge and they have actually tried to do this.

 

The "US Mainland strike" bothers me. Hypothetically thinking is it just going to attack the US with outdated missiles which would be better suited to targets in South Korea and Japanese targets than US soil or does he have a massive Naval fleet we don't know about?

 

I doubt a Red Dawn type scenario the US defences would have to be severely incompetent for this to be a reality which they aren't. 

 

Did you know the North Koreans have a song called "All servicepersons and people will become human bullets and bombs" I think "Cannon Fodder" would of been a better title. 

 

 

Soon to be the cover of Kim's new album called "AK up your ass!" available in all North Korean retailers and supermarkets next to the empty food aisles. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I am sick of Argentina's shit doesn't mean I encourage them to bomb me and my countryman even though I have joked about certain things. Its not worth it at least it is to me let them be the aggressor.

Yeah, I think it's already be established at this point how differently we see this.

 

I would leave them alone. Its up to them now negotiate or attack. Let them make their move on the chess board rather than trying to do it for them that way if they do attack it will make them look like the aggressors which could bring in a lot of support in South Korea and  United States favour.

Have you really been reading my posts? Because if you have, why do you keep telling me to let them make their move when that's exactly what I'm doing?

[Badnik Zero]

The news in the States and the lack of news in S. Korea shows the two countries' perspective on the situation, exactly. Americans aren't really in immediate danger from a strike, yet we have a tendency to treat N.K. like a rival for some reason. The thing Americans should really worry about is getting caught in another war so soon, because we will go when the shit hits the fan. South Korea meanwhile is not ready for unification at all, and they've been through so much with the North that this sounds like another round of hard talk that amounts to pretty much nothing, and which I believe this is. The situation is unique because symbolic steps have been taken (cutting of military hotline, denial of armistice) to show how the North is different under Kim Jong-un, but it's all just a show so far, as much as our military drills are. A few years back shots were actually fired between islands off the coast resulting in like 20 deaths, and that should've been a much higher alert situation than this one now. The conflict still hasn't escalated beyond a war of words so far.

Edited March 31, 2013 by American Ristar

[blackherox]

 but the ideas will spread, and in time, especially with our support, a more liberal, stable nation is practically inevitable.

The Middle East says Hello!

[Sami]

The Middle East says Hello!

 

To be fair, we've not really been involved in the Arab Spring. Forced regime changes in the past have mostly been a result of us charging in because we want change.

[Candescence]

To be fair, we've not really been involved in the Arab Spring. Forced regime changes in the past have mostly been a result of us charging in because we want change.

Fun fact: the US and Britain masterminded the toppling of Iran's first and only democratic prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh, because said prime minister actually had the nerve to nationalize his country's oil supply, which pissed off British oil companies. Then the people revolted against the Shah in 1979, resulting in the regime in Iran today.

[Stacy]

Fun fact: the US and Britain masterminded the toppling of Iran's first and only democratic prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh, because said prime minister actually had the nerve to nationalize his country's oil supply, which pissed off British oil companies. Then the people revolted against the Shah in 1979, resulting in the regime in Iran today.

 

We've regretted it ever since. Thanks CIA and MI6! *sarcasm* 

 

The British for the Oil interests and it is disputed as whenever the United States did to contain Communism or for future Oil interests though the US has mainly used the Saudis for that.

 

Ironically are support in helping the US in Korean War was the leverage Churchill used for this favour.

 

Honestly what hasn't come back from the Cold War to bite us in the arse?

[Tani Coyote]

Think about it, if the impossible happens and the North Koreans somehow win South Korea... how long will it last before an uprising tears them apart? The ordinary civilians don't know anything about any countries apart from their own, but what's going to happen when they meet the South Koreans, and actually get a taste of what freedom is? The phrase my teacher used in particular was "freedom is poisonous", and I think he's right. The same applies to China taking over Taiwan. Yeah, it's a shame to lose a democratic country, but the ideas will spread, and in time, especially with our support, a more liberal, stable nation is practically inevitable.

 

This hypothesis actually has solid grounding.

 

Why did the European empires collapse? One might say the strain of two world wars, but it goes beyond that: their populations were too small to effectively manage such vast empires, so they educated a lot of locals to administer things for them. Result: the educated discovered such things as nationalism and self-determination, and inevitably overthrew the same regimes that had naively assumed they'd just become educated and remain automatons for exploitation.

 

It's no wonder North Korea tries its best to keep all outside information away, because otherwise the people will demand some bread and circuses. They wouldn't be able to abuse their power quite as blatantly as they do now; regimes that rule entirely by coercion are bound to implode at some point.

 

The news in the States and the lack of news in S. Korea shows the two countries' perspective on the situation, exactly. Americans aren't really in immediate danger from a strike, yet we have a tendency to treat N.K. like a rival for some reason.

 

Ever since the USSR collapsed we've been left with a ton of military and economic power and no one to use it against. Europe are our buddies (however much we might get into scuffles over such things as UHC and capital punishment), and China does us so much good we'd never consider really being aggressive towards them. So, we like to focus on the little states that are trying to make a name for themselves, no different than how a big corporation always keeps an eye out for rising small ones.

 

Honestly what hasn't come back from the Cold War to bite us in the arse?

 

Dogma is generally bad. Vietnam and Cuba were the highlights of Cold War failure for the United States, and the irony is both countries actually were open to being our allies at first. We just went "Eww Communism!" and pushed them into the Soviet sphere, thus triggering the most disastrous war in US history and also nearly triggering the extinction of humanity. Had we not viewed the Communist nations as one big bloc (as was proven by China later splitting from the Soviets), things would have gone very differently.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[Stacy]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-sends-destroyer-off-korea-coast-official-195213390.html

 

The long chess game continues.

 

I admit if things don't continue to improve and North Korea feels provoked enough we might see the boarders between the two Koreas to be closed off followed by the closing of the complex in kaesong. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, I'm just seeing nothing more than keeping the armistice without the official armistice.

[Stacy]

From the other articles I have read it seems that politics in North Korea is increasingly becoming more and more controlled by the military (if that is possible) especially after Kim Jong-il's death makes you wonder how much power Kim Jong-un has?

 

Reminds me of Imperial Japan which isn't a good thing.   

[Tani Coyote]

As the article states, Korea hasn't really made any moves; their leader just has a big mouth (explains Jong Un's waistline) and is trying to make it look like he's tough.

 

North Korea is undoubtedly a military dictatorship by this time, and Kim Jong Un is so young he's surely just a figurehead. While we've heard he purged many elites shortly after his ascension, the reality is that he likely wields nowhere near as much power as his father and grandfather did. He's sort of like Hosni Mubarak at this point; he's formally in control of everything, but the reality is a military oligarchy is what really controls everything.

 

Basically this all amounts to Kim Jong Un building a personality cult among himself so he can be the face of North Korea to its people and the world, while the military continues to call the actual shots.

 

So escalation is unlikely, and shutting down Kaesong would be shooting itself in the foot given how dire its economy already is. They're full of hot air and Kim Jong Un is merely being propped up as a ceremonial figurehead they can rally behind.

[Badnik Zero]

The South should shut down Kaesong then, if the North wants to play a game of limits.

[Stacy]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/north-korea-restart-nuclear-reactor-060844315.html#K6ylu00

 

The North moves another piece.

 

Its not a military move but a worrying one nonetheless.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Is that really their best?

 

Really, aside from their nukes and numbers, I'm really not concerned with them being any kind of threat. The South could simply wage a war of attrition against them and steamroll them in the process. Only way the North could counter is with a zerg rush, or a makeshift nuclear device that they'll attach to some ship, and whether those'll get far is something to ponder.

Edited April 2, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Tani Coyote]

The South should shut down Kaesong then, if the North wants to play a game of limits.

 

Really it's time the South hit them back and said if they keep acting like children they're going to send North Korea further down the brink of economic collapse. Maybe that would be enough to shut the North up. The North's basically hoping everyone takes them seriously and pulls the sanctions back, but the fact South Korea hasn't really said anything says a lot about their legitimacy as a threat.

 

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/north-korea-restart-nuclear-reactor-060844315.html#K6ylu00

 

The North moves another piece.

 

Its not a military move but a worrying one nonetheless.

 

"One atomic bomb worth of plutonium a year."

 

Wow, North Korea you're... so advanced! This isn't even touching on the fact an atomic bomb tends to be carried by a plane, which is easily shot down in this day and age. And a missile or two isn't going to fare much better.

 

They're very shortsighted if they think they can go for nuclear weapons and a stronger economy. I have an idea for them: why not ink a stronger defense pact with China and Russia, and abandon the nukes entirely? And arrange for some sort of joint aid package from the United States and China in exchange for disarming? They can definitely strengthen the economy without the need for nuclear weaponry. At the end of the day nuclear weapons are entirely for ego when you clearly have someone who's willing to back you up if you're attacked.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well, if they have suicide soldiers willing to deliver the nukes, THAT could probably have some difficulty in shooting down...but since their pilots don't train for very long, I'm not gonna hold my breath.

 

Wouldn't turn down the chance they actually find a clever way to deliver the nukes by sea tho, but even that's still a stress on their logistics since they probably wouldn't have the resources to pull it off again.

[Stacy]

They're very shortsighted if they think they can go for nuclear weapons and a stronger economy. I have an idea for them: why not ink a stronger defense pact with China and Russia, and abandon the nukes entirely?

 

I don't know about this if it were possible and if it was wouldn't it just create unnecessary tensions with the US anyway and make China and Russia look worse than they already do to the US? Knowing how paranoid your country can be it could send the wrong signals.

Edited April 2, 2013 by BW199148

[Patticus]

I don't think China and Russia really care what America thinks of them, and I reckon the general attitude of indifference is probably mutual. America will keep buying from China and largely ignoring the ongoing terrible human rights abuses its regime commits, and it will keep on watching Russia warily from afar (as is now customary), while continuing to not really give a rat's ass about the pseudo-democratic oligarchical mafia state.