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The North Korea Thread: Threats, Propaganda and a brewing Holocaust

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Are you related to Ronald Reagan by any chance?huh.png  

Well I once read that the place was almost like someone read 1984 and took it by heart in making a government by someone who once visited the place a few decades ago. For what it's worth...

 

At any rate, I don't think the US would send that huge a fleet in Korean waters, and if they did I think it would be quite a mess if China and Russia decided to do something about it if the two sides go at it. It's more expected of China to back off if NK does something stupid, but I have no clue about how Russia would respond beyond what I've read above.

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Well I once read that the place was almost like someone read 1984 and took it by heart in making a government by someone who once visited the place a few decades ago. For what it's worth...

 

At any rate, I don't think the US would send that huge a fleet in Korean waters, and if they did I think it would be quite a mess if China and Russia decided to do something about it if the two sides go at it. It's more expected of China to back off if NK does something stupid, but I have no clue about how Russia would respond beyond what I've read above.

 

I agree North Korea would be a horrible place to live in but despite all this they adore their leader its all they know. They know nothing of the outside world what they are told is all they know and its dangerous. It doesn't help that we no very little of what goes on there.sleep.png

 

We know there is Political Prison Camps. We know there is an obvious Cult of Personality. We know their is heavy oppression and human rights abuses. I imagine it is like living in Stalinist Era of the Soviet Union and Mao Era of China the problem is it will probably fight like those countries.

 

If people are expecting the North Koreans to have no will to fight think again. This a country that has seen only what they have be told I don't think there is anyone in North Korea remembers a time without authoritarian rule be the Korean Workers' Party or Imperialist Japan. Its not like the South Koreans haven't had oppression forced on its people. The country as come under dictatorship and corruption a few times even had massacres of its people protesting just like the North neatly swept away under the carpet and ignored still to this day something the US supports. 

 

I meant politically I don't think Russia and China would go to war over it but it might make things difficult for the US army to conduct operations.

 

If the US doesn't show a strong show of force how will they able to defeat the North swiftly without heavy Casualties and avoid a lengthy war none of its Allies are prepared to fight?  I hope the US aren't relying on us and the rest Europe to be their Cannon Fodder. We have problems with Argentina. If we help out in Korea expect us to want the US to not give us that "Colonial matter" bullshit that they dropped on us last time and tell the UN to make the Argentines drop it (via sanctions) if things kick off there. The US should also expect favours from other European countries as well.

 

Not mention the ongoing problems in Africa and the Middle East with Islamic Extremists and the violence in Syria. 

Edited by BW199148

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I don't know how much political put China and Russia would have over the situation considering that very few countries are even allies with North Korea and it probably wouldn't look good for them to use it as a diplomatic tool...

 

But considering what I just said, which may or may not make sense, I'm not too sure on the details. Most I do is wait and see how it unfolds, because I can't easily predict anything beyond the two Korea's going at it.

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The with Korea is  both Capitals are so close to the boarder with each other both sides will scramble like crazy to capture them. I think mobilization will be a key factor in how a potential conflict will unfold.

 

It would probably end up like the first Korean War at first.

 

That is, the North would see early victories due to sheer numbers and readiness. Likely half the reason North Korea's so undeveloped is the excessive militarisation; 4% doesn't sound like much but every percent of the population in the armed forces is one less percent working on developing the economy. It compounds rapidly; if the United States' economic growth had been slowed by 2% per year over the last century we'd have a standard of living comparable to Mexico's.

 

But anyway. The South would see a brief overrun, with American and allied forces landing to turn the tide. This is what happened in the first war; all but Pusan was occupied by the North until UN forces arrived in almost Hollywood fashion and shifted the momentum.

 

It would be very bloody naturally, but practically everything weighs in favor of the South winning. There's no real contest. They've got a better economy, better allies, better technology, and more manpower.

Edited by Ogilvie Maurice

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But considering what I just said, which may or may not make sense, I'm not too sure on the details. Most I do is wait and see how it unfolds, because I can't easily predict anything beyond the two Korea's going at it.

 

Yeah that's what scares me.sleep.png

 

It would probably end up like the first Korean War at first.

 

That is, the North would see early victories due to sheer numbers and readiness. Likely half the reason North Korea's so undeveloped is the excessive militarisation; 4% doesn't sound like much but every percent of the population in the armed forces is one less percent working on developing the economy. It compounds rapidly; if the United States' economic growth had been slowed by 2% per year over the last century we'd have a standard of living comparable to Mexico's.

 

But anyway. The South would see a brief overrun, with American and allied forces landing to turn the tide. This is what happened in the first war; all but Seoul was occupied by the North until UN forces arrived in almost Hollywood fashion and shifted the momentum.

 

It would be very bloody naturally, but practically everything weighs in favor of the South winning. There's no real contest. They've got a better economy, better allies, better technology, and more manpower.

 

Didn't the North occupy Seoul twice in the last war?

 

The South will definitely win if they get full support if not a bloody stalemate is likely. I can't see why they wouldn't though.  I am sure we would get roped into this and I just hope when time comes when have good leadership and good tactics, high tech weapons don't mean shit if you haven't got those.

 

When the North's Army is shattered we will have militias and resistance to contend with until Kim Jong-Un is dead. In the last war one of the North's tactics was to mix their soldiers with refugees and when they would reach an Allied patrol they would pull out their weapons and kill the Ailled soldiers. Back then the Allies method was to kill any civilians that would approach Allied patrols regardless if they North soldiers in disguise or not. Off course now we wouldn't do that but it wouldn't stop the North from pulling that bullshit again. 

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Yeah that's what scares me.sleep.png

 

 

Didn't the North occupy Seoul twice in the last war?

 

Oh. I derped. I meant Pusan. My bad.

 

When the North's Army is shattered we will have militias and resistance to contend with until Kim Jong-Un is dead. In the last war one of the North's tactics was to mix their soldiers with refugees and when they would reach an Allied patrol they would pull out their weapons and kill the Ailled soldiers. Back then the Allies method was to kill any civilians that would approach Allied patrols regardless if they North soldiers in disguise or not. Off course now we wouldn't do that but it wouldn't stop the North from pulling that bullshit again. 

 

Hearts and minds is going to be very difficult when the regime's so effectively clouded said hearts and minds with their insanity. People are naturally stubborn, but if the South Koreans make the right approach perhaps the Northerners can be won over. It is important that any occupation have a Korean face... the North Koreans must think of this as a reunification, not a campaign to build an American colony.

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Well I once read that the place was almost like someone read 1984 and took it by heart in making a government by someone who once visited the place a few decades ago. For what it's worth...

 

Yup. Every home in the country must contain a portrait of the “Great Leader”. Inspectors visit homes to hand out fines and admonishments if the portrait is damaged in any way. It is illegal to throw away anything with Kim's portrait on it, which has proven useful to activists who want to ensure that their anti-regime leaflets get read. They also have a "three generations" policy, which means that if you are suspected of committing crimes against the regime (including but not limited to: hints of dissatisfaction, ungratefulness, individuality, or searching for food) you will be either executed or sent to a prison camp, where you, as well as your future children and grandchildren must live for the rest of their lives. It makes for a very effective supply of slave labor and test subjects for weaponry.

 

Food aid donated by foreign countries is rationed to the populace, but is then immediately taken back by the police "to give to the soldiers". Out of desparation, human flesh is sold as food in village markets (but all cannibals are executed).

 

Here are some drawings by North Korean refugee children, each depicting executions. It's all they know. :(

 

c.jpg4.4.jpg

 

 

At least the U.N. Human Rights Council is finally going to consider inquiry into North Korea's crimes against humanity, but we all know how much North Korea cares about international politics, so it probably won't do anything.

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Yup. Every home in the country must contain a portrait of the “Great Leader”. Inspectors visit homes to hand out fines and admonishments if the portrait is damaged in any way. It is illegal to throw away anything with Kim's portrait on it, which has proven useful to activists who want to ensure that their anti-regime leaflets get read. They also have a "three generations" policy, which means that if you are suspected of committing crimes against the regime (including but not limited to: hints of dissatisfaction, ungratefulness, individuality, or searching for food) you will be either executed or sent to a prison camp, where you, as well as your future children and grandchildren must live for the rest of their lives. It makes for a very effective supply of slave labor and test subjects for weaponry.

 

Food aid donated by foreign countries is rationed to the populace, but is then immediately taken back by the police "to give to the soldiers". Out of desparation, human flesh is sold as food in village markets (but all cannibals are executed).

 

Seeing all this... it makes me puke. Kids drawing executions, just, what in the hell...

 

Read the full article. With even the army coming apart at the seams I wouldn't be surprised if the regime just flat out collapses, war or no war. If even the soldiers are destitute, I think it's bleeding obvious the regime is hardly the benevolent overseer it tries to present itself as. They try to depict foreign countries as worse off, but... can you really get worse off than starvation? Food is the most essential human need; if you cannot satisfy it, there is something wrong with your economic system.

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 Food is the most essential human need; if you cannot satisfy it, there is something wrong with your economic system.

 

North Korea is actually pretty rich in natural resources. If the regime wanted to feed its citizens, it could. Instead, the North Korean government deliberately creates "famines" through a series of strategic political choices as a means of controlling and oppressing the populace. When you rely on the Great Leader for your meager rations (which, by the way, were only about 200 grams of food per person per day in 2005), you're more likely to stay on his good side. And if your region dissents, or attempts to eat some of the crops it grows...well, you're not getting fed. The whole purpose is to weaken the people of North Korea so that they become totally dependent on the regime and are too weak to resist it.

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The 1953 armistice has been officially torn up, though there are no signs of hostility at the border.

 

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea declared the 1953 Korean War armistice nullified on Monday, following through on a longstanding threat that it renewed last week amid rising tensions with South Korea.

The move comes as the United States and South Korea are in the midst of two months of joint military drills, which started on March 1, and on Monday they began another planned joint military exercise that involved bringing 2,500 troops from the United States. Stirring up a sense of crisis among its impoverished people, North Korea was also staging an unusually vigorous military drill of its own, South Korean officials said.

However, there were no signs of hostility along the border between the two Koreas. South Korean officials said they were increasing their vigilance amid fears that North Korea might use the United States-South Korean military drills and a fresh round of United Nations sanctions as an excuse to create an armed skirmish against the South.

“We must deal strongly with a North Korean provocation,” the South’s new president, Park Geun-hye, said during her first cabinet meeting on Monday. She called for the protection of people living on a border island that was attacked by North Korean artillery in 2010 and of South Koreans working in a joint industrial park in the North Korean border city of Gaesong.

But she also said her two-week-old government would work to build “trust” with North Korea.

During the cabinet meeting, Ms. Park also criticized senior military officers for playing golf last weekend amid the tensions with the North. Her office was investigating news reports that a military golf course in Seoul was crowded with senior army officers, including generals, on Saturday and Sunday.

Kim Min-seok, spokesman of the Defense Ministry, admitted that some some officers played golf at the weekend. But he added that none of them served in sensitive commanding posts.

The exchange of bellicose language between the two Koreas has recently intensified, recalling the level of tension after the North Korean artillery barrage in 2010, which left four South Koreans dead. After the United Nations imposed the new sanctions as a penalty for the North’s third nuclear test, on Feb. 12, the North said that it would nullify the armistice and that it was being threatened with a pre-emptive nuclear strike that it might itself pre-empt with nuclear strikes on Washington and Seoul. South Korea responded that in the case of such attacks, the North Korean government would be “erased from the Earth.”

On Monday, the North’s official Korean Central News Agency said that the armistice had been nullified. The North followed through on another threat as well, cutting off a Red Cross hot line that the two Koreas used to discuss humanitarian issues.

However, the two continued to operate channels of communication to allow hundreds of South Koreans to commute to the Gaesong industrial complex, one of the last remaining symbols of inter-Korean cooperation.

North Korea had often threatened to nullify the armistice or called it scrapped in times of tension, especially when the United States and South Korea were conducting military drills. Since the mid-1990s, it has tried to undermine the armistice, demanding that Washington negotiate a peace treaty with it.

The United States and South Korea started two months of regular drills, called Foal Eagle, on March 1, which involve 10,000 American troops, many of them brought in from bases outside South Korea. The additional drills that began Monday, named Key Resolve, involve 10,000 South Koreans and 3,000 Americans, along with more sophisticated American aircraft and warships. The two sets of drills add considerably to the usual 28,500 troops the United States has in South Korea.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/world/asia/north-korea-says-it-has-nullified-1953-korean-war-armistice.html?_r=0

I know that South Koreans have been somewhat blase about the whole affair thus far but, well, they can't now, can they?

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The SK military leadership should not have just gone golfing like that, it makes them look lazy and criminally negligent at a time when vigilance and combat readiness is of paramount importance. However, given that last week most South Koreans were blowing this whole situation off too ("Oh, don't worry about the north, they do this kind of stuff all the time!"), that American spy satellites and drones will have been monitoring the region intensively for some time now, and that NK is probably within range of a US carrier group and/or military bases which could deliver a decent Shock & Awe campaign, I'm not sure they really felt like they needed to be on high alert.

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They'll probably cause some skirmishes, kill a few dozen soldiers at most, and then paint it as Southern aggression to their people. I think the whole tearing up the treaty thing is just to try and "awe" the West, since they've never done it before. Eventually the whole "we're gonna invade u!!" schtick gets bland and loses its effect.

 

North Korea is actually pretty rich in natural resources. If the regime wanted to feed its citizens, it could. Instead, the North Korean government deliberately creates "famines" through a series of strategic political choices as a means of controlling and oppressing the populace. When you rely on the Great Leader for your meager rations (which, by the way, were only about 200 grams of food per person per day in 2005), you're more likely to stay on his good side. And if your region dissents, or attempts to eat some of the crops it grows...well, you're not getting fed. The whole purpose is to weaken the people of North Korea so that they become totally dependent on the regime and are too weak to resist it.

 

Sounds reasonable. Quite genius actually; it's what the Aztecs did to keep their extensive network of vassals in check. Make everyone dependent on you and you need not worry too much about uprisings.

 

Sounds like they actually make the Soviet model good. The Soviets TRIED to at least have a functioning economy, even if they horribly mismanaged it (as governments generally do). The DPRK is solely concerned with power and will screw everyone in the country over to keep it, to an extent that makes the Soviets look progressive.

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North Korea is actually pretty rich in natural resources.

Interesting, I didn't know that bit. Probably because the DPRK have mis-handled those resources so badly. (Even the higher ups in the party are poor by western standards). It also makes sense why South Korea sometimes appears a little hawkish. Not only would they be able to rescue the people from an oppressive regime but they get access to all the mineral rights. There have been administrations in the past where they seemed to be poking the DRPK with a stick in the hope that they'd respond, thankfully they didn't go that far usually since they didn't want to bring China into it.

 

But now that China seems to be considering letting North Korea defend themseves you have to wonder...

 

(PS: I am definitely not trying to paint South Korea in a bad light. I'd love to see the regime in the DRPK end but I don't really want the bloody war to happen, especially if China decides to help the DRPK; then we all might be stuffed.)

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If the DPRK attacks first, I'm sure China will abandon them to defend themselves.

Only way I see China get involved in any conflict is if the South attacks first, which I'm pretty sure they're smart enough not to do...

China has specifically stated that they will only get involved if North Korea is attacked first. However they have also officially stated that if the DRPK throws the first punch, their own their own.

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Oh, look, a new North Korean propaganda video! This one's about life in the United States. According to Kim-Jong Eun, there is an epidemic of Americans “buying guns to kill each other, especially children.” There's no more birds in the U.S., as they’ve all been eaten by the starving masses. American houses “blow down very easily,” leaving the American Red Cross to supply emergency housing only thanks to humanitarian aid (including tasty cakes) from Pyongyang. Other parts of America are “often disguised as foreign countries in Europe.”  Most Americans are entitled to a single cup of coffee daily, made from snow. “They this is how they live in modern-day America: huddled together,” says the video, showing a supposed American homeless shelter of spartan metal bunk beds, “the poor, the cold, the lonely, and the homosexual."

 

 

 

 

 

"There are no birds in the trees except for these. They will be eaten on Tuesday. They are yummy."

Edited by SonikkuForever

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Oh, look, a new North Korean propaganda video! This one's about life in the United States. According to Kim-Jong Eun, there is an epidemic of Americans “buying guns to kill each other, especially children.” There's no more birds in the U.S., as they’ve all been eaten by the starving masses. American houses “blow down very easily,” leaving the American Red Cross to supply emergency housing only thanks to humanitarian aid (including tasty cakes) from Pyongyang. Other parts of America are “often disguised as foreign countries in Europe.”  Most Americans are entitled to a single cup of coffee daily, made from snow. “They this is how they live in modern-day America: huddled together,” says the video, showing a supposed American homeless shelter of spartan metal bunk beds, “the poor, the cold, the lonely, and the homosexual."

 

 

 

 

 

 

"There are no birds in the trees except for these. They will be eaten on Tuesday. They are yummy."

 

Sad the video's been deleted, sounds like it was entertaining!

 

It's good to see the people who write their dribble have great tastes, though. They take their own situation and reverse it so it is the mighty and prosperous North Korean Empire feeding the impoverished, starving masses of the United States.

 

Really I'm surprised North Korea even admits South Korea exists at all. Guess they need to keep a bogeyman somehow.

 

You've got to hand it to them - that was a pretty entertaining video.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm missing my Cappuccisnow...

 

...you always get me. Well-played!

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