The Sonic Vs Thread.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Er...even without his Chaos Powers, remember that Shadow is practically equal to Sonic by physical abilities alone; in other words, Sonic is capable of beating Knuckles, and by relation to his and Shadow's similarities, Shadow should be capable of beating Knuckles as well. However, Knuckles could also potentially beat Sonic as well, so he could also stand toe-to-toe against Shadow.

 

But add in Shadow's Chaos Powers and the black blur has plenty of advantages to break the potential stalemate. But considering that Sonic can go toe-to-toe against Shadow, and the fact that Sonic lacks most of Shadow's Chaos Powers, then it's just a mess to consider.

 

All in all, you're just gonna have a headache figuring out who will beat who. At this point, probably the only thing you could swing in either character's favor would be the location and terrain: make Shadow and Knuckles duke it out on Angel Island, and I think Knuckles would likely come out the victor there due to his knowledge of the place. And open area where Shadow doesn't have to worry too much about collateral damage, and it could easily swing to his favor.

 

...yeah, good luck figuring that all out guys.

Edited February 25, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Blacklightning]

Someone has probably thought of some completely bullshit way Cheese can beat Solaris, so eliminating items like Emeralds and locations where certain characters would have an extreme advantage

WHAT

 

MOFUCKA, YOU BE SHITTIN' ON MAH MANLINESS

 

THE CHEESE DON'T NEED NO COCKSNORTING MAGIC ROCKS TO PUNCH OUT A TIME GOD

THE CHEESE HEADBUTTS LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN FILLED WITH STEEL-FORGED DILDOS AND DOESN'T TAKE SHIT FROM SOME PUSSY ASS LASER BEAMS

THE FUCK DO YOU THINK I AM

SOME KIND OF PET

[Pikachu]

I always found it weird how Sega designed an 'ultimate lifeform' character who is basically Sonic, when Sonic is the main character. I guess it shows off how badass Sonic is that he can defeat the supposed ultimate creature. :3

[Emmett L. Brown]

I always found it weird how Sega designed an 'ultimate lifeform' character who is basically Sonic, when Sonic is the main character. I guess it shows off how badass Sonic is that he can defeat the supposed ultimate creature. :3

Well, at the very end of the game Shadow did say that maybe Sonic himself was the Ultimate Lifeform. Unfortunately, Shadow died, un-died, got amnesia, became an alien, turned evil, turned good, joined GUN, picked fights for no reason, and finally decided that "You GOT dis, Sssssonic!"

 

I don't know where I was going with that. Neither did the writers.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well, at the very end of the game Shadow did say that maybe Sonic himself was the Ultimate Lifeform. Unfortunately, Shadow died, un-died, got amnesia, became an alien, turned evil, turned good, joined GUN, picked fights for no reason, and finally decided that "You GOT dis, Sssssonic!"

 

I don't know where I was going with that. Neither did the writers.

Goddammit. The more of this shit I see, the more I end up thinking we might actually need a reboot to re-sort this shit out in retelling a number of those plots (and omitting some like ShTH).

Edited February 25, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[HeroMystic]

Given enough time. You can't sit around chanting to your emerald in the middle of a fight.

Knuckles is strong, agile, and at least fairly quick, but that's about all he's got. Compared to the guy who's as fast as Sonic, can teleport/stop time, and shoot lasers, and I don't think he's got that much of a chance.

 

Shadow the Hedgehog has also shown that Shadow has a considerable amount of super strength, so Knuckles' strength isn't a real advantage.

 

Shadow vs Blaze is much closer, but there hasn't be enough of a showcase of Blaze's powers to give a real analysis of that. Upon first glance, I'd have to say Shadow due to his abilities to control time. Blaze likely has the advantage in elemental powers, while rivaling in agility, but that's all she has going for her and it isn't much in comparison in Shadow's arsenal.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I honestly think they need to take super strength away from Shadow, or at the very least make Knuckle's strength a lot stronger by comparison because it is stupid for Shadow to have that much of an assortment of powers all in one. If anything, I'd like to chalk it up to Story and Gameplay segregation at best.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I honestly think they need to take super strength away from Shadow, or at the very least make Knuckle's strength a lot stronger by comparison because it is stupid for Shadow to have that much of an assortment of powers all in one. If anything, I'd like to chalk it up to Story and Gameplay segregation at best.

Which is why I go by the thought process that Shadow should be primarily a ranged glass cannon. He can still have melee prowess, but make it so that it's only effective against relatively normal/average strength, and not as useful against the more titanic strength of Knuckles.

[HeroMystic]

I honestly think they need to take super strength away from Shadow, or at the very least make Knuckle's strength a lot stronger by comparison because it is stupid for Shadow to have that much of an assortment of powers all in one. If anything, I'd like to chalk it up to Story and Gameplay segregation at best.

 

When I think of Shadow, I've never thought of Super Strength as a trait either. I'd be willing to let it slide myself since it has only been showcased in Shadow's game as well, unless you count his melee combos in Sonic 06.

 

Regardless though, Shadow's only real weakness is his stamina. It's been shown on a few occasions that he wears himself out too quickly if he doesn't keep control of his powers. Knuckles has shown to have strong endurance, so his only chance would be to outlast him. That said, Shadow has -a lot- of abilities that goes far beyond any character in the series, and they range in both in raw power and utility. In a no holds barred, no storyline-induced interference, I don't see anyone except Sonic and possibly Blaze taking advantage of his sub-par stamina.

[Tani Coyote]

Plenty of strengths is fine provided you have weaknesses to match. Unfortunately Sega's been kind of lazy with giving Shadow weaknesses. Is his skeleton very heavy to support his developed musculature, for example? How much of his power is simple genetics and how much of it is derived from chaos energy?

 

Logically if he's dependent on chaos energy, you could just shank him with a shard of the Master Emerald and that could have an effect.

 

The sad thing is Sega hasn't really detailed the Master Emerald and Chaos Emeralds enough to really establish what Shadow's weaknesses are. We know what powers he gains from them, but we haven't really established what could inhibit such power.

 

To quote Edmund, "The only thing that beats chaos energy is MORE chaos energy." Sega really needs to address this point in the games, which from what we can tell is more or less true barring the Master Emerald showing up.

 

I've got a few great match ideas myself; I'll share them when I wake up later.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Plenty of strengths is fine provided you have weaknesses to match. Unfortunately Sega's been kind of lazy with giving Shadow weaknesses. Is his skeleton very heavy to support his developed musculature, for example? How much of his power is simple genetics and how much of it is derived from chaos energy?

Er...we chalk those things up to a wizard scientist doing that. In the same sense we don't ask how Omega has infinite ammo or how Tails is capable of using his tails as a rotor when that should be physically impossible.

 

And none of those things have anything to do with weaknesses either in the fashion that you're making them out to be than they are descriptive of the character's physiology, and it goes without saying that Shadow being capable of jumping who knows how many stories high or having his hover shoes provide lift for him would mean that he's not that heavy.

 

...and I just went into technobabble for a bit, didn't i?

 

Logically if he's dependent on chaos energy, you could just shank him with a shard of the Master Emerald and that could have an effect.

Since when? The M.E. as we currently know it is only capable of stopping the Chaos Emeralds from doing whatever the hell they may be doing, not any other source that is capable of storing such energy independent from said Emeralds.

 

Granted, that would be an interesting tool to use against him, but in either case: how do you know stabbing him with it won't increase that power rather than nullify it? Because what we do know is that the Master Emerald is equally capable of supercharging things such as the Death Egg and Mecha Sonic. A fragment could easily give a boost instead...unless that's what you were talking about?

The sad thing is Sega hasn't really detailed the Master Emerald and Chaos Emeralds enough to really establish what Shadow's weaknesses are. We know what powers he gains from them, but we haven't really established what could inhibit such power.

More like they haven't detailed the Master Emerald while they've been throwing all sorts of things at the Chaos Emeralds. Heck, they even showed that you can use technology to rip the energy straight out of a Super Sonic and draw it into something else, like a laser cannon at the Earth.

 

Another reason why we should use the Master Emerald more, because it has the potential to be a very useful plot device...but that brings up another tangential discussion that would probably derail the topic.

[SweeCrue]

Dan vs. Sonic.

 

 

 

Fund it.

 

 

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Hey on another note, isnt Shadow relient on his Shoes for a good amount of speed due to them being howevering? you thake away those and give him say sonic's shoe and he would take a major speed drop. And honestly, I think with Knuckles we have got the same thing happening that we had happen with Thor in the marvel movies: they toned him back.

     In order to make him defeatable they keep making him weaker and weaker, but in all reality the plot is making him hold back, just like the movie Thor, whereas in the original Thor comics he was powerful to thrash the hulk if we wasnt holding back, and even shatter a world with his hammer, but we will never see that in the movie universe, and thats because it woulod make everyone else look too weak. With Knuckles for all we know he is a juggernaut, however since he hasnt had any true limlight since SA2 really(and even that was toned back), and hasnt titled a game since the 32X, we will never know what his power will really reach, unlike shadow who has had a 3D solo title, and mainlined another. And also they have turned him into a bit of a running bumbling joke which also masks his power levels

So I am just saying, thanks to the current circumstances, we cant really judge Knuckle's powers whereas Shadow's is proably slightly exagerated due to his run of being a main playable character, which of course leads to some skewed facts.

So who would win? we dont know due to current circumstances, and it wont be cleared up till Knux mainlines a game again, and we see the true extent of his power, and just what can he do with that emerald, however if Shadow didnt have his hover shoes, or a chaos emerald, Knuckles would proably have an edge

Know how about this one: Fang/Nack VS Tails, or better yet, Fang vs Silver ?

[Mr. Awesomest]

I don't think you guys considered Knuckles' digging ability. It can be used to dodge, and he can come out of the ground with a punch powerful enough to stun even an invincible foe. While I think Knuckles is at a huge disadvantage, there's still hope if he digs to get out of the way of Shadow's ranged attacks or to escape the wrath of a Chaos Control.

[...]

Knuckles would beat everyone in a fight. Why? The great emerald's power allows him to FEEL.

[Kuzu]

Shadow is really OP honestly because no matter who you put him up against, he's got something literally over anyone he fights to give him an edge. I think the only person who can realistically beat him straight up is Silver. Both of them are just overpowered motherfuckers. Even the comics said Shadow is more powerful than Sonic.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Ragna the Bloodedge

[Jack / Joker]

Realistically, Shadow would smash the fuck out of anyone he's up against because he's TOTAL OWNAGE BADBUTT. But if Sonic effortlessly handing Shadow's ass to him in Generations is anything to go by, Sonic fights tend not to have realistic outcomes. It just depends on who you play as... most of the time.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Even the comics said Shadow is more powerful than Sonic.

Not sure the Comics are a good source to use when even a Metal Knuckles can bat Sonic out of the sky, or have him survive an explosion from an alien device that should have killed him, or actually be able to beat a demi-god like Mammoth Mogul (who was capable of beating an all-powerful Enerjak, mind you) with his only weakness being his finite lifespan compared to the immortal mammoth straight from the elephant's mouth himself, nevermind the tons of other stuff it throws at him.

 

In fact, the Comics are pretty much the only place where character skills are balanced, because sheer power alone never wins every fight there. For example, in pitting Gamma - an assassin robot, and therefore not very durable - against Omega - a walking armory, and should be very durable and powerful - Gamma actually beat Omega and took over its body which made Omega join Shadow when it was recently attacking both of them.

Edited February 25, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Pawn]

I'd like to think that Knuckles could endure Shadow's onslaught long enough for the latter to tire out. If the former can deflect a spin attack (a force powerful enough to break the armour of a giant robot) then I could see him do the same for Chaos Spear (seriously, it's never been up to much). If I were to acknowledge Shadow's game as a reliable representation of Shadow's abilities; there's super strength, which may or may not measure up to Knuckles' own, and Chaos Blast, which I could see the echidna withstanding once or twice. After which, Shadow may well be tuckered out. I'm not sure about Chaos Control though, as the extent of that ability is unclear.

 

Most of the time that Shadow's seen using these abilities to great effect, he's had a Chaos Emerald on him. Taking that away could place severe limitations on these abilities and cause him to tire sooner. Assuming that the writers don't want to portray Shadow as an almighty god again, I think that Knuckles could have a chance.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Pawn

[Kuzu]

Not sure the Comics are a good source to use when even a Metal Knuckles can bat Sonic out of the sky, or have him survive an explosion from an alien device that should have killed him, or actually be able to beat a demi-god like Mammoth Mogul (who was capable of beating an all-powerful Enerjak, mind you) with his only weakness being his finite lifespan compared to the immortal mammoth straight from the elephant's mouth himself, nevermind the tons of other stuff it throws at him.

 

In fact, the Comics are pretty much the only place where character skills are balanced, because sheer power alone never wins every fight there. For example, in pitting Gamma - an assassin robot, and therefore not very durable - against Omega - a walking armory, and should be very durable and powerful - Gamma actually beat Omega and took over its body which made Omega join Shadow when it was recently attacking both of them.

 

 

Well obviously there are different factors, but I think in the context of the scene I was talking about, Omega was just referring to Shadow's raw power compared to Sonic.

[Crash]

Silver Vs. Mighty

 

This would be... different. I think that it would work having two very different characters go up against each other.

Edited February 25, 2013 by David Cameron (Crash)

[Sparky]

Shadow is really OP honestly because no matter who you put him up against, he's got something literally over anyone he fights to give him an edge. I think the only person who can realistically beat him straight up is Silver. Both of them are just overpowered motherfuckers. Even the comics said Shadow is more powerful than Sonic.

Where was that, and even then, how would Shadow be more powerful then the embodiment of chaos?

[Kuzu]

Where was that, and even then, how would Shadow be more powerful then the embodiment of chaos?

 

It was Omega's first appearance if I recall, and he was the only one who said it. But granted how much power Shadow has over Sonic, I don't think that's too far from the truth.

[Sparky]

Also, I said earlier in this thread that I take EVERYTHING into account for these characters' abilities, from all continuities. And the OP said that this is similar to Death Battle, and they apparently took all the continuities into account for Sonic's abilities. 

 

And in the comics, Knuckles (along w/ the Sonic and Shadow and Tails) has a powerful connection to the "Chaos Force" and is capable of using powerful Chaos abilities (one of them being the Thunder Arrow from SA2.) So what I'm trying to say is that both Shadow and Knuckles have Chaos Powers in their arsenal. 

[Diogenes]

If you want to mash together wildly different versions of characters from incompatible continuities and argue about that, then go ahead, but if you can't find other people who will argue from that position (and I can't imagine why anyone would) you're only talking to yourself.