The Sonic Vs Thread.

[NocturnalTwilight]

actualy, they called him robotnik in the last major title sonic generations, in the finale

 

Technically Classic Tails was calling Classic Eggman "Robotnik" because that's what he was called back then before Sonic gave him the nickname "Eggman". 

[Sparky]

Well, I do recall someone (I think it was Uncle Chuck) addressing Tails as Miles in an episode of Sonic X. He said that he didn't know his real name was Miles, and Tails stated that he prefers Tails over Miles. 

 

 

Actually hearing it? Never. But as in reading, many times in the Comics. 

That's exactly why Miles calls himself Miles, the exact opposite of that.

[NocturnalTwilight]

That's exactly why Miles calls himself Miles, the exact opposite of that.

 

What are you talking about?

[Sparky]

What are you talking about?

Anti Tails.

[Splash the Otter]

Does anyone else think we've gone a bit off topic here?

[Emmett L. Brown]

Does anyone else think we've gone a bit off topic here?

Actually, comparing different versions of the same character is completely on-topic for this thread. I wish people would type more words, though. I like words. Especially the ones with lots of syllables. Like serendipity.

 

Digressions are fun, in any case.

 

But speaking of different versions, I've mentioned that I've never read the comics. So I wanna ask someone who has read them and played the games, the following:

 

Sonic vs Scourge.

 

I have no idea how powerful Sonic is in the comics, compared to his game counterpart, and all I know about Scourge is that he's based on a Sonic 2 glitch that let you play as a green Sonic. Oh, and he's evil.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Actually, comparing different versions of the same character is completely on-topic for this thread. I wish people would type more words, though. I like words. Especially the ones with lots of syllables. Like serendipity.

 

Digressions are fun, in any case.

 

But speaking of different versions, I've mentioned that I've never read the comics. So I wanna ask someone who has read them and played the games, the following:

 

Sonic vs Scourge.

 

I have no idea how powerful Sonic is in the comics, compared to his game counterpart, and all I know about Scourge is that he's based on a Sonic 2 glitch that let you play as a green Sonic. Oh, and he's evil.

Dont know a ton, but I will tell you what I do, Scourge is an anti-sonic from another timeline, and the nickname is more recent, originaly he was just called anti-sonic, and looked like (classic at that time) sonic, but with sunglasses and leather clothes like the 'bad guy' he was. The green coloring happened when he made the mistake of using the main timelines master emerald, which obviously didnt like him. Like all the alternate sonics, he has most of the same moves and personality traits, cept hes evil, and likes to make the prime sonic miserable, and is even willing to help a plot to wipe out all other sonics. theres a lot more but I dont know much, just picked up this browsing the wiki

So one on one, they are nearly equal except for character, scourge(or evil/anti-sonic if you prefer, the name change was more recent) would use every dirty trick in the book, but proably fail because of it

Edited April 14, 2013 by Mandobardanjusik

[Sparky]

Actually, comparing different versions of the same character is completely on-topic for this thread. I wish people would type more words, though. I like words. Especially the ones with lots of syllables. Like serendipity.

 

Digressions are fun, in any case.

 

But speaking of different versions, I've mentioned that I've never read the comics. So I wanna ask someone who has read them and played the games, the following:

 

Sonic vs Scourge.

 

I have no idea how powerful Sonic is in the comics, compared to his game counterpart, and all I know about Scourge is that he's based on a Sonic 2 glitch that let you play as a green Sonic. Oh, and he's evil.

Scourge wasn't based off of "Ashura". He's just the evil Anti-Sonic that turned green when he tried to go super off the M.E. but was stopped mid-transformation by Knuckles' dad with a chaos-powered spiky-fisted punch. This gave Scourge a power boost and the two scars running across his chest. 

[Sega DogTagz]

Scourge is Sonic in every way shape and form physically, with an added power boost from the juice he sapped of the master emerald. Thats a bit of the contrast from all the energy Sonic sapped off of a billion power rings, emeralds and other mystical do-dads. The only thing that really sets the two apart is experience (Sonic has tangled with a much larger cast of foes, and is more knowledgeable/skilled because of it) and personality. Scourge will resort to underhanded maneuvers to get the upper hand, but Sonic comes out ahead by being more of a tactician than his knock off... when he has to be anyway. More often than not, Sonics rare talent to slow down him feet and think with his mind is often more than enough to topple Scourge. Even Super Scourge fell to his superior cunning.

 

 

It also doesn't hurt that Archie Sonic is probably the single most powerful variant of the blue blur in any medium (god slaying is just the beginning for this dude). If your gonna veer a discussion in his direction, you better be ready for some serious tangents.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[Mr Useful]

Scourge is a different to Sonic as Shadow is different to Sonic.

 

So, Enraged Amy vs Hyper Knuckles with 20 rings and no wall to cling on and screen kill.

(By enraged, Knuckles made Sonic RAGE after a round of Mario Party.)

Edited April 14, 2013 by Dom

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Scourge is a different to Sonic as Shadow is different to Sonic.

Let's test that...

 

They're all hedgehogs who can run really fast.

 

Sonic's a lot more heroic and kind hearted.

Shadow's more distant, grumpy, and blunt.

Scourge is the complete opposite of Sonic.

 

Power wise, they're both capable of Chaos Control:

Sonic and Scourge tend to need a Chaos Emerald from what we can tell, while Shadow can teleport short distances without them.

 

Sonic started out as a hero and stayed the hero all the way through as he goes around helping anyone who needs it as he saves the world.

Shadow started out as a villain behind another villain, seeking to destroy the world before developing into an (anti-)hero after getting all the answers he wanted.

Scourge was a villain and more of a troll who went and conquered his whole world before being sent to an interdimensional prison and breaking out.

 

Yeah, they're very different...

[Mr Useful]

Let's test that...

 

They're all hedgehogs who can run really fast.

 

Sonic's a lot more heroic and kind hearted.

Shadow's more distant, grumpy, and blunt.

Scourge is the complete opposite of Sonic.

 

Power wise, they're both capable of Chaos Control:

Sonic and Scourge tend to need a Chaos Emerald from what we can tell, while Shadow can teleport short distances without them.

 

Sonic started out as a hero and stayed the hero all the way through as he goes around helping anyone who needs it as he saves the world.

Shadow started out as a villain behind another villain, seeking to destroy the world before developing into an (anti-)hero after getting all the answers he wanted.

Scourge was a villain and more of a troll who went and conquered his whole world before being sent to an interdimensional prison and breaking out.

 

Yeah, they're very different...

Well, what I was going for was that they are usually the same in ability and different in personality/backstory/design/not ability.

[Shadow Robotnik]

you guys do realize shadow isn't "frail" he fell from space and hit the earth and survived. i get that knuckles is tough but shadow is a milatary weapon for a reason, he's physicaly almost as tough as knuckles (he flips a bus over with one hand) faster, can use many chaos abilities exclusive to him and he can fly around.

[Diogenes]

If I remember right it's not that people were saying that he is frail, but that him being frail would be a way to balance against his massive list of abilities.

 

Because a character being absurdly overpowered is generally a bad thing from a writing perspective.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

you guys do realize shadow isn't "frail" he fell from space and hit the earth and survived.

Actually, he vanished in a flash of light, if you want to be technical. And even then, so has Cream the Rabbit, and she's certainly nowhere near Shadow's caliber of power is she?

 

Even Sonic himself lacks a lot of Shadow's wide assortment of Chaos Powers, and he survived a fall from space without being in his superstate.

 

Shadow doesn't have to be "frail" per se, but his massive power and abilities should come at a cost so as balance him and keep him from being overpowered. A Glass Cannon is something I recommend him become, someone who can dish it but can't take it. Or even better, a Paper Ram that has high speed and offense, but low defense; he can keep his immortality, but he'll still take more damage if he gets hit, which would be difficult due to how fast he moves.

[Sega DogTagz]

I think you could make the argument that Sega has made small strides to balance out Shadow's powers by lowering his standard defensive resistances and regenerative capabilities.

 

Lets not forget that when Shadow fell from space, he essentially came out the other side with brain damage mental instabilities. Sonic, and a handful of other characters have preformed similar stunts and walked away from collisions with the dirt and walked away just fine. falling from space and living to tell about it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. In comparison to the rest of the cast, Shadow comes up a little soft in this department. 

 

You can also throw some Sonic Battle gasoline onto this fire. There Shadow spent the majority of the game either sucking wind, getting his face caved in, settling into a mini coma, and all the while bemoaning his weakened state and the time it would take to regain his full power. In this series, that is clearly well outside the norm. Other characters move from utter exhaustion to peak form in much less time. The rest of the cast have legendary recuperative capabilities. Its rare to see someone hindered for such a long period of time. Shadow didn't round out into form until the second to last chapter of the main story.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[Sparky]

I think Shadow took off his rings during the FinalHazard fight and put literally his all into that Chaos Control.

[Sega DogTagz]

I think Shadow took off his rings during the FinalHazard fight and put literally his all into that Chaos Control.

 

and Sonic didn't?

 

He may not have had any rings to ditch, but he put an awful lot into that effort as well. And he "lived" to tell the tale. He wasn't even out of gas in the aftermath.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

and Sonic didn't?

 

He may not have had any rings to ditch, but he put an awful lot into that effort as well. And he "lived" to tell the tale. He wasn't even out of gas in the aftermath.

To be fair, you are comparing a character who has used the Super Form at least somewhere between 3-5 times prior to the events of SA2, vs a newbie who has only used the technique in the final battle and expended energy far more quickly without any real time to adjust. Plus depending on your interpretation of the character, said newbie had just had a revelation about how badly he fucked up his dead friend's dying wishes and might have seen his actions regarding the final battle/Chaos Control as a form of redemption via Heroic Sacrifice or whatnot.

[Sega DogTagz]

To be fair, you are comparing a character who has used the Super Form at least somewhere between 3-5 times prior to the events of SA2, vs a newbie who has only used the technique in the final battle and expended energy far more quickly without any real time to adjust. Plus depending on your interpretation of the character, said newbie had just had a revelation about how badly he fucked up his dead friend's dying wishes and might have seen his actions regarding the final battle/Chaos Control as a form of redemption via Heroic Sacrifice or whatnot.

 

Shadow may have been new to Super forms, but he was no noob to chaos energy. The newbie label has to come with the biggest asterisk you can find. If anyone, he's the one I would expect to handle super forms the best considering how much he could do with the emeralds.

 

And the Heroic sacrifice angle is a bit misguided. Re-entry really doesn't really hurt Sonic and co and there isn't much to say that he probably could have faceplanted from that fall and walked away from it. The fall from space wouldn't have killed him on its own. Overexertion is the only angle that makes sense.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[Sparky]

I think it's like this: 

 

Sonic and Shadow are equal in a lot of things, incuding Chaos energy. But the way I see it, Sonic himself is a chaotic person while Shadow was like a counter to that. And because of that, Sonic is literally one with chaos when he's in his Super form physically, mentally and... spiritually? But Shadow tries to directly control that chaos energy when in Super form. Another aspect in that is the fact Shadow has his inhibitor rings. I think Shadow and Sonic have the same level of power, but for some reason or another, Shadow needs the rings to hold back most of that power or he'll burn himself out very quickly, while Sonic can use as much power as he feels with out any real consequences. So when Sonic and Shadow were in there super forms fighting against the FinalHazard, Sonic was having no problems at all, while Shadow was struggling a lot. And with that final Chaos Control, Super Sonic was able to expend a lot of power without much consequences (probably draining some Ring Energy but that's it) but Shadow needed to take off his limiters to expend an equal amount of Chaos for that Chaos Control, and used up so much power that he used up so much energy and stamina that if he wasn't the ULF/Immortal he would have died or disappeared right there.

 

Simplified version: Sonic IS the chaos and Shadow Controls the chaos. Sonic moves with the chaos energy (most of his attacks are him using his speed and I guess just amplifing physical attacks with chaos) and is mentally one with Chaos (he is a free spirit that moves where the wind takes him). Shadow harnesses and commands the chaos energy (He tends to use Chaos Powers much more then Sonic) and is mentally a counter to chaos (Shadow's entire life has been spent following the commands of others). Sonic has no limitations and can expel as much energy as he wants. Shadow needs to hold back his power with the Inhibitor Rings or he'll burn out quickly and use up all his stamina. All this adds up to Sonic, having much experience with his Super form, having no problems as Super Sonic; and Shadow, having no experience with a Super form, having a lot of difficulties. This concludes with the final Chaos Control having Super Sonic expel excess Chaos no problem but Super Shadow using up all his reserves and draining himself while also trying to Control all that power.