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Sonic Unleashed vs. Sonic Colors Extra Round - Final Thoughts


Soniman

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That's kinda the point of Comic Relief characters. Although I'll admit it falls flat because there's nothing to be relieved from.

Feels no more shoehorned than Chip and his whole subplot.

 

Indeed; when all of your cast members are funny, it becomes imperative that you have use in the plot beyond following the crowd.

 

Also, I'm not sure how Chip is shoehorned when he is inherently essential for the way Unleashed's plot functions and thus proves to be useful towards the cast and for solving the conflict. If we removed Cubot, would anything be all that different? I mean really now.

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That's kinda the point of Comic Relief characters. Although I'll admit it falls flat because there's nothing to be relieved from.

Feels no more shoehorned than Chip and his whole subplot.

 

Chip's and his story was never shoehorned in. The story largely revolved around Chip's tragic lack of knowledge about the world he's been a part of since time immemorial and his journey to regain his memory whilst experiencing the world. He's vital to Sonic being able to seek the temples and place the emeralds inside them and his relationship with Sonic was an entirely unique one distinctly different from Tails'. The fact that Chip is entirely relevant to the plot and his role feels natural is a testament to Unleashed's superior writing.

 

Cubot was a shoehorned-in character if anything.  I agree that Cubot's humor seemed very forced just like the 'comedy' in the rest of the game but I still think he's endearing and he contrasts with Orbot really well.

 

I think part of what makes Colours Eggman a bit more endearing to me above Unleashed Eggman is the PA announcements. Not only are they genuinely hilarious but they get across his sheer apathy extremely well XD The only thing to fault them for is the difficulty in hearing them in-stage and the way they're "Tell, don't show" in relation to stage design, they attest to the features of a theme park that you never see.

Edited by Vertekins
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Chip's and his story was never shoehorned in. The story largely revolved around Chip's tragic lack of knowledge about the world he's been a part of since time immemorial and his journey to regain his memory whilst experiencing the world. He's vital to Sonic being able to seek the temples and place the emeralds inside them and his relationship with Sonic was an entirely unique one distinctly different from Tails'. The fact that Chip is entirely relevant to the plot and his role feels natural is a testament to Unleashed's superior writing

Well like I said about Sonic and the Werehog, this isn't especially obvious at first glance. The whole thing is treated as an important plot-point, but more time is spent on Chip being the adorable sidekick than discovering his memories, so the whole revelation doesn't feel natural.

I'm just a lovable gadfly aren't I 8)

Edited by Eh Ok Fine It's T-Man
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Sonic Colours had great characterisation for Sonic and Tails and I never really felt that camaraderie in Sonic Unleashed, but I definitely did in Colours! Doctor Eggman was brilliant, but he was in Unleashed too. Chip is more interesting than Yacker but I think it's his voice that annoys me most. Seriously, it shouldn't have sounded that way...

And I love Professor Pickle and the human civilians, but they're just that. Human NPC's.

 

Hmm, this one is very difficult! I just think that because I like how Sonic and Tails are shown as being best friends it'll have to be Sonic Colours again. Dr Eggman was just great but mostly for his PA announcements. They're GOLD. And I love Cubot and Orbot...yeah, Sonic Colours. Sorry Professor Pickle and co. D=

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Well like I said about Sonic and the Werehog, this isn't especially obvious at first glance. The whole thing is treated as an important plot-point, but more time is spent on Chip being the adorable sidekick than discovering his memories, so the whole revelation doesn't feel natural.

I'm just a lovable gadfly aren't I 8)

 

I was commenting on the notion that Chip and his roles were shoehorned in. They weren't.

 

- Chip saved Sonic from a rather nasty death by stopping his descent and preventing him from reaching terminal velocity upon falling from space. Of course being in the wrong place at the wrong time had Sonic fall smack on top of him. It's completely in-line with Sonic's character for him to help Chip get his memory back.

 

- Chip knocking over the ice cream cone is what leads Sonic to discover the main property of his Werehog form.

 

- He has the intrinsic ability to raise the pedestal for each emerald inside each temple so Sonic can actually restore the emeralds. Chip's inherent curiosity inside the Mazuri Temple of Gaia is what led him to rediscovering this ability in the first place and Sonic likely would not have known what to do if he entered the temple and found nowhere to restore the emerald. For the Chun-Nan temple, Chip's interaction with the village treasure that Zonshen went out to find is what opened the temple. Zonshen later admits that he never knew that the treasure had that function.

 

- Chip's curiosity, like in the Mazuri Gaia Temple is used again when his touching of the stone mural inside Adabat's temple (Because that one is distinctly different from all the other murals and is the only one that features Chip) is what ultimately leads him to discovering the real form of Light Gaia and the revelation that he is it's 'avatar' and what the meaning of his existence is.

 

- Chip was the one who saved Sonic's bacon when Dark Gaia ripped it's fragment from him and forcibly reverted him, weakening him horribly in the process.

 

- Chip saves Sonic's bacon yet again when he's KO'ed from super form overuse and he throws him out of the core.

 

Chip is very instrumental to Unleashed's plot. The story, from it's theme of the cyclic nature of death and rebirth, the contrast between light and dark and to it being a world adventure of discovery even to the temple's revealing their secrets is tied to Chip as a character, both in nature and in personality.

Edited by Vertekins
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I'm gonna be honest here, I think that with a few minor changes Sonic could've easily done all of the above without Chip.

 

A lot of it would've just been "because he's Sonic" I guess, but that's still valid.

 

EDIT: :/ well that went places

Edited by Jazz
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I'm gonna be honest here, I think that with a few minor changes Sonic could've easily done all of the above without Chip.

But that's not the point. Chip had an important role in the story and as I said, everything about his character was relevant to the specific plot points of the story and the themes of the game.

I can't say the same for Orbot or Yacker.

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I'm gonna be honest here, I think that with a few minor changes Sonic could've easily done all of the above without Chip.

 

A lot of it would've just been "because he's Sonic" I guess, but that's still valid.

 

Indeed, due to the innumerable amount of stories society is afforded due to the open-ended nature of writing as an art form, if one writes a story in any way they see fit, any character in fiction can be rendered useless or useful. This is absolutely fact.

 

It's also an awful argument when we're determining the usefulness of a character as they are written in specific stories, because it can literally be applied to any and every story on Earth. It's especially awful in regards to this series, because Sonic- due to the way he's been characterized for years- doesn't really need anyone to do anything for him most of the time.

 

The fact of the matter is, when a story is written, a character can objectively be shown to be contributing towards the narrative as it has been written, or not. Subsequently, a character's contributions aren't undermined simply because you can write any story that exists any unlimited number of ways. You're inherently rejecting the value of the medium when you make this argument.

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Cubut is great because good lord when was the last time we had an honest to god wacky character that wasn't at the story's center? Cubot is just there to entertain, you dont have to like him but dammit don't come to me saying that his presence was somehow "shoehorned" in when he didn't even get in the way of the plot at all.

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I was commenting on the notion that Chip and his roles were shoehorned in. They weren't.

 

- Chip saved Sonic from a rather nasty death by stopping his descent and preventing him from reaching terminal velocity upon falling from space. Of course being in the wrong place at the wrong time had Sonic fall smack on top of him. It's completely in-line with Sonic's character for him to help Chip get his memory back.

 

- Chip knocking over the ice cream cone is what leads Sonic to discover the main property of his Werehog form.

 

- He has the intrinsic ability to raise the pedestal for each emerald inside each temple so Sonic can actually restore the emeralds. Chip's inherent curiosity inside the Mazuri Temple of Gaia is what led him to rediscovering this ability in the first place and Sonic likely would not have known what to do if he entered the temple and found nowhere to restore the emerald. For the Chun-Nan temple, Chip's interaction with the village treasure that Zonshen went out to find is what opened the temple. Zonshen later admits that he never knew that the treasure had that function.

 

- Chip's curiosity, like in the Mazuri Gaia Temple is used again when his touching of the stone mural inside Adabat's temple (Because that one is distinctly different from all the other murals and is the only one that features Chip) is what ultimately leads him to discovering the real form of Light Gaia and the revelation that he is it's 'avatar' and what the meaning of his existence is.

 

- Chip was the one who saved Sonic's bacon when Dark Gaia ripped it's fragment from him and forcibly reverted him, weakening him horribly in the process.

 

- Chip saves Sonic's bacon yet again when he's KO'ed from super form overuse and he throws him out of the core.

 

Chip is very instrumental to Unleashed's plot. The story, from it's theme of the cyclic nature of death and rebirth, the contrast between light and dark and to it being a world adventure of discovery even to the temple's revealing their secrets is tied to Chip as a character, both in nature and in personality.

 

Shoehorned probably wasn't the right word, but it's still fairly odd that neither Sonic nor Chip question the latter's connection to the temples prior to Adabat, or make any real effort in trying to jog, or recover his memories.

 

I'm gonna be honest here, I think that with a few minor changes Sonic could've easily done all of the above without Chip.

 

A lot of it would've just been "because he's Sonic" I guess, but that's still valid.

 

EDIT: :/ well that went places

 

I don't even like Unleashed that much and this logic makes no sense. It's like saying Batman doesn't need Robin because the former is more competent, when that's the missing the point of the character to begin with.

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Cubut is great because good lord when was the last time we had an honest to god wacky character that wasn't at the story's center? Cubot is just there to entertain, you dont have to like him but dammit don't come to me saying that his presence was somehow "shoehorned" in when he didn't even get in the way of the plot at all.

 

Why are wacky characters undermined when they're actually useful beyond the realm of comic relief? Subsequently, why does being a useless comedic character make a character a great one? I could understand if Cubot's brand of comedy was Louis C.K levels of brilliance, but everyone else had better dialogue anyway.

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Why are wacky characters undermined when they're actually useful beyond the realm of comic relief? Subsequently, why does being a useless comedic character make a character a great one? I could understand if Cubot's brand of comedy was Louis C.K levels of brilliance, but everyone else had better dialogue anyway.

 

I don't think anyone is implying Cubot is a brilliant character. He's comic relief, that's it, people like that about him. I don't think it's undermining because the character wasn't created for any other purpose.

 

 

CSS, you are surprisingly analytic today....something's off.

Edited by Eh Ok Fine It's T-Man
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Shoehorned probably wasn't the right word, but it's still fairly odd that neither Sonic nor Chip question the latter's connection to the temples prior to Adabat, or make any real effort in trying to jog, or recover his memories.

The cutscene when they both approach the Adabat temple has Chip suddenly apprehensive. It's as if he's comfortable with not having memories because he's enjoying himself too much and has some sense that there's answers in that there temple that he might not be comfortable with. Or that he's afraid that any revelations won't allow him to act the way he does any more. This is actually hinted in one of the comments he can come out with when fed, which is along the lines of "I like eating so much that I don't care about my memories anymore. Haha! Does that make me shallow?"

It's cool though that Chip fully embraces his responsibility even to the point that he feels that is his responsibility alone and that Sonic doesn't need to come along any more. And I love how that's additionally responsible for making Sonic come out with the best and most extraordinarily in-character line that he ever spoke until SatBK came along. It's such great character interaction that to me, is very akin to the Storybook games and their character interactions that bring out the best in the characters, Sonic in particular.

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I don't think anyone is implying Cubot is a brilliant character. He's comic relief, that's it, people like that about him. I don't think it's undermining because the character wasn't created for any other purpose.

 

The very post I quoted said Cubot was great because he's a comic relief character that isn't important to the story, as implied by the rhetorical question. I then asked, "Why does being unimportant comic relief make him great?" And note: I don't think being unimportant inherently undermines the character, per se. What undermines the character to me is that I don't find him particularly funny, especially in a story where the entire cast has been shoved into the comic relief role in some form. Everyone is funny, meaning Cubot's lack of purpose makes him that much easier to target as a character.

 

CSS, you are surprisingly analytic today....something's off.

 

What do you mean? xP

 

You are officially person number seven.

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To elaborate a bit more, Sonic's answers to certain NPC's questions just makes him a very funny character in Unleashed. If you gave Iman's crystal ball back to her in Shamar, she will ask Sonic various questions in order to see "The real him". All of the responses that Sonic can give are pretty comical such as;

 

It's this little stuff that really gives a bit more dimension to Sonic in Unleashed and they often get across his deadpan snarkiness really well.

 

Didn't Chronicles more or less have this same idea as well?

 

Really I can see it has a lot of merit for gameplay, if for no reason other than the humor. Where difficulty arises is deciding which choice is canon, but that's actually somewhat the beauty of it: you, the player, get to decide Sonic's personality in this sense. You get to determine whether he's a goody two shoes or the arrogant, rude douchebag of the Fleetway strip. It's the reason why they try to avoid bogging Link from the Legend of Zelda down with too much characterisation: he's an avatar (or link) between the player and the gameworld, and he is ultimately what the player makes of him.

 

Now, unfortunately Sonic gets his canon personality traits in the actual cutscenes, so it kind of stomps on this angle, but at the same time, who's to say he can't be really greedy or lazy when he's not busy fighting Eggman?

 

There's nothing wrong with this, I like it in fact because as you said it builds character, I just wish I didn't have to do side-quests to get characterization that should have been in the main game.

 

Be careful what you wish for. If they added all this to the main game, it would have dragged the whole thing down.

 

Really for enjoyment purposes it's best to put key events in the story you go through between levels, and leave the rest to be discovered by the player. Imagine if all of Eggman's PA announcements in Colors were in cutscenes and not something you encounter through gameplay; they'd come off as a drag rather than a source of comedy. Sonic is a game at the end of the day, and this should be taken advantage of.

 

That's actually pretty funny when you look at it that way. It would explain Eggman's annoyance with the whole fiasco.

 

Suddenly it all makes sense, and Cubot is 10x more comical instead of just being the idiot of the group.

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The very post I quoted said Cubot was great because he's a comic relief character that isn't important to the story, as implied by the rhetorical question. I then asked, "Why does being unimportant comic relief make him great?" And note: I don't think being unimportant inherently undermines the character, per se. What undermines the character to me is that I don't find him particularly funny, especially in a story where the entire cast has been shoved into the comic relief role in some form. Everyone is funny, meaning Cubot's lack of purpose makes him that much easier to target as a character.

Well I guess it comes down to what you find funny then.

 

 

 

What do you mean? xP

 

You are officially person number seven.

 

LE GASP.

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People are multi-dimensional, and they can make several different choices in their lives that would still appropriately correspond with their natures. Not only is Sonic not a blank slate but people complain that Chronicles's alternate choices are not in-character with Sonic at all. Considering how messily written the rest of the game is, it's valid to think that Sonic answering "Money!" in Unleashed would be rather tongue-in-cheek in that game while saying "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" to Amy in Chronicles would be just downright mean-spirited.

 

If you're going to provide different dialogue options for a character who already has an established personality then you better be prepared to make sure that all those choices fit their character.

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People are multi-dimensional, and they can make several different choices in their lives that would still appropriately correspond with their natures.

 

At the end of the day, you only make one of several, though.

 

This is why there's an argument there is in fact no free will and people ultimately are just as scripted to make a choice based on variables as a robot would.

 

If you're going to provide different dialogue options for a character who already has an established personality then you better be prepared to make sure that all those choices fit their character.

 

Key problem is text alone makes it hard to read emotions so it's difficult to tell whether a response is serious or joking. The same problem that governs discussion on the internet governs text-based NPC interactions.

 

Really at the end of the day there's most likely going to be only one canon answer to each question. Obviously anything he says that actually hurts the person emotionally can be determined as non-canon.

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Key problem is text alone makes it hard to read emotions so it's difficult to tell whether a response is serious or joking. The same problem that governs discussion on the internet governs text-based NPC interactions.

 

Really at the end of the day there's most likely going to be only one canon answer to each question. Obviously anything he says that actually hurts the person emotionally can be determined as non-canon.

 

The consistent tone to quite a few of Sonic's responses to NPC questions particularly Iman's in Unleashed have a definite feel of deadpan snarkiness which is in-line with his character. To add onto this, if the date in SatBK is one and the same as the date that Amy suggests in Unleashed then Sonic's canonical answer was "That could be fun"

 

It's a different story in Chronicles in which not only are some responses extremely OOC in their spitefulness, the portrait that accompanies said responses back up the mean-spiritedness.

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The consistent tone to quite a few of Sonic's responses to NPC questions particularly Iman's in Unleashed have a definite feel of deadpan snarkiness which is in-line with his character.

 

I agree entirely, I was just thinking I sort of liked how a variety of responses allows you to craft Sonic's exact personality on your own. Some people think he's too much of a jerk, some think he's too nice, etc. But open responses like these allow the players to decide for themselves more or less what his personality is. He's still a hero no matter how it's sliced, but that encompasses a wide range of personalities.

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Round 6 - Characterization

 

Another fairly controversial topic this week, characterization. We take a look at which game has the better has the better character portrayals, relationships, and personalities. One is a heartwarming tale of discovery and the other is a comedic romp, which characters are best portrayed in their respective games? Guess well find out now.

 

*snipped awesome post in order to preserve space*

 

If you don't mind Soniman, may I make a suggestion?

 

While I appreciate each time the topic changes in the title to indicate what the current topic of discussion is, personally it took me a while to actually figure out when and where this current discussion of characterization began. Even though I am following this topic, it took me a while to realize that the characterization topic began on page 14. I may be wrong, but something is telling me that the beginning posts in this 6th round (including yours) may have been overlooked due to this round picking up posts so quickly. Another reason why the begining of the rounds may be overlooked due to the times that you update the topic, usually they are at times when many members aren't online. I know I've been guilty with posting in this topic at some bizarre times myself, most recently with my post in this round. smile.png

 

Maybe in the title for example, you could put: "Sonic Unleashed vs. Sonic Colors #6-Characterization, Starting on Page 14" or something like that to tell the members where to begin viewing the newest topic of discussion, so not only can they see your introductions to the new rounds of discussion, but they also will know what to talk about exactly at that point in time and hopefully have members going off topic less frequently. Either way, thanks for considering my idea.

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Took your suggestion because it does make sense. Hope no one gets lost from now on, lol.

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I agree entirely, I was just thinking I sort of liked how a variety of responses allows you to craft Sonic's exact personality on your own. Some people think he's too much of a jerk, some think he's too nice, etc. But open responses like these allow the players to decide for themselves more or less what his personality is. He's still a hero no matter how it's sliced, but that encompasses a wide range of personalities.

 

I don't think these responses change or decide Sonic's personality like... entirely, they really has nothing to do with the main story mostly.

But of course, they make the game quite more interesting.

Edited by Mysterious X
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Some are quite OOC, but you are right, they don't determine Sonics cannon personality, but rather he can have a personality given to him by the player, and some are just for laughs I think

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