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Sonic Unleashed vs. Sonic Colors Extra Round - Final Thoughts

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If the game was designed around or put real emphasis on Frenzy's control scheme than it would be an issue. But it for a wisp that is invincible and can kill anything it touches, unwieldy controls is a decent way balancing that out for an ability that doesn't last for very long.

I would have thought the time limit would have been enough of a handicap. Hell, going by your definition, Mario should have moved with the grace of a hippo whenever he got an invincibility star, since the star acts almost exactly like a Frenzy except you can actually control your movements.

Edited by 743-E.D. Missile

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If the Frenzy's segments were made as some precise platforming bits, then I could understand complaints about terrible controls.

 

But that's not what the Frenzy segments are.  The Frenzy segments are destructive romps that take place on largely 2D planes, and the controls work well to provide the feeling of an un-tamable destructive force plowing through goddamn everything.

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You can have characters or power-ups that facilitate the feeling of raw destruction and unchained power without them feeling like a cow has been strapped to a shopping cart altered with hydraulics. And this particular tangent is surprising to me, because there is no other instance in the Sonic franchise in which bad controls would actually be considered fine. None.

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You can have characters or power-ups that facilitate the feeling of raw destruction and unchained power without them feeling like a cow has been strapped to a shopping cart altered with hydraulics. And this particular tangent is surprising to me, because there is no other instance in the Sonic franchise in which bad controls would actually be considered fine. None.

 

Because at the end of the day, the bad controls don't effect anything, you just go in a direction you didn't want to and that's it. You don't die, you still kill things regardless, not to mention I forgot to say the more shit you consume the bigger he gets and the easier he is to handle. And as Nix said the designed areas for the Frenzy is pretty well suited for you to plow through areas without much issues. The only exception is at the end section of AC Act 1 where you have to use the Frenzy on Saturn's rings which is just a nightmare and generally awful.

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If the Frenzy's segments were made as some precise platforming bits, then I could understand complaints about terrible controls.

 

But that's not what the Frenzy segments are.  The Frenzy segments are destructive romps that take place on largely 2D planes, and the controls work well to provide the feeling of an un-tamable destructive force plowing through goddamn everything.

 

In addition to Nepenthe's point, while control mechanics regarding the Frenzy Wisp may not affect the gameplay significantly in 2D, the Frenzy Wisp is also accessible in 3D. When considering the relative openness of movement in 3D, despite its linearity in Colors, it still can be a hindrance in regards to control. 

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Because at the end of the day, the bad controls don't effect anything, you just go in a direction you didn't want to and that's it. You don't die, you still kill things regardless, not to mention I forgot to say the more shit you consume the bigger he gets and the easier he is to handle. And as Nix said the designed areas for the Frenzy is pretty well suited for you to plow through areas without much issues. The only exception is at the end section of AC Act 1 where you have to use the Frenzy on Saturn's rings which is just a nightmare and generally awful.

 

The bad controls affect my ability to control him to the degree that I want to and subsequently the enjoyment of actually using Frenzy, who is mandatory to use for completion of the game. So what if I can't die from using him? Dying isn't the only consequence in a game that can facilitate boredom or frustration. Frenzy still controls like shit and I'm forced to use him, meaning it's not all that fun.

And how many times has Secret Rings been derided for making the player earn better control through gameplay? There is no excuse for Frenzy that can subsequently be applied to other games and not risk massive amounts of scrutiny. Frenzy controls awfully, and there's no defense for it.

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I enjoyed using Frenzy because I felt like I was riding a wild bull or something. Just charging forward and breaking shit in a chaotic frenzy (haha i made a joke didja see that). It was fun.

 

Anyhow, Colors wins for me. The wisps were a really fun gimmick and I loved exploring the levels and solving challenges with them.

 

The werehog made what would have been an amazing game a disappointingly mediocre one. I hate the damn thing. It's a shitty God of War clone, and I don't buy Sonic games to play lame beat-em-ups. 

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You can have characters or power-ups that facilitate the feeling of raw destruction and unchained power without them feeling like a cow has been strapped to a shopping cart altered with hydraulics. And this particular tangent is surprising to me, because there is no other instance in the Sonic franchise in which bad controls would actually be considered fine. None.

 

You're absolutely right.

 

There are other ways to convey a similar feeling, and that's all well and dandy.  At this point, the argument is whether or not the Frenzy controls terribly, and I honestly don't think it does.  If the levels required a large degree of precision with using the Frenzy, I could understand, but they just don't.  I think the Frenzy is well suited for its quick and destructive romps.

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You're absolutely right.

 

There are other ways to convey a similar feeling, and that's all well and dandy.  At this point, the argument is whether or not the Frenzy controls terribly, and I honestly don't think it does.  If the levels required a large degree of precision with using the Frenzy, I could understand, but they just don't.  I think the Frenzy is well suited for its quick and destructive romps.

They're like mini-mach speed sections minus any actual danger. That's not a good thing if you haven't guessed.

 

EDIT: Control-wise, at least based on appearances, and to a small degree level design wise. Just a flat slab of land...

Edited by 743-E.D. Missile

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I don't think the quality of a character's control changes with the level design. At best, I think the character becomes more or less tolerable to the individual player, but I don't think that inherently changes the actualy quality of how they move. If a character controls badly, then it just does whether or not you change the level design to accommodate any quirks. Really, would Sonic in Sonic 06 suddenly become better if the levels had no pits that you could slide off into? No. He wouldn't.

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This is actually a tough one...but I'm gonna have to give this one to Colors, if only slightly.

 

And the reason for this is due to variety and potential use. Colors had a lot of room with its gimmicks that you could actually use in the future whereas Unleashed had an interesting concept that had a lot of rocky moments and was (somewhat) restricted by story (or not).

 

Well to be perfectly fair, both are restricted by story. Unleashed would require Eggman cracking open the world again with Chaos Energy in order to bring back the Werehog, and Colors would require tractor beaming Planet Wisp again so that you could find the Wisps and duplicate their powers.

 

But this is where Colors' variety shines. You could adapt the Laser into a kind of boost or teleport, you could use the Rocket and Hover to enable fast flight, you could use the Frenzy to wipe away obstacles in your path (I think using it as a nuke would do nicely), and the Drill can be used to dig.

 

Unleashed has an interesting use to it as well. as we could adapt the Werehog's stretchy arms and use it as a second grab to save you if you're on the verge of falling after a failed jump.

 

But once again, due to its variety, I'm going to give Colors the edge here.

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Overwhelming win for Colours on my end.

 

That's not just because I really, REALLY loathe the concept, execution and gameplay of the Werehog. It's a tedious, time-consuming, pain in the ass for me. If you liked the night portion of Unleashed, then I'm happy for you, but apart from a few brief fun moments it's pure tedium for me. I enjoyed pole swining like Ristar.

 

Pushing blocks, balancing on narrow ledges, slowly carrying objects around...that was death.

 

Did Daytime Sonic have any good gimmicks? I only remember quicktime events, and those were also death. At least his basic gameplay was fast and fun - the exact opposite of his counterpart.

 

---

 

At this point colours would win by default, but fortunately its gimmicks I really like. Ever since Sonic 3 introduced the elemental shields, I've been longing for some power-ups to give Sonic temporary extra abilities. Colours provides that and so much more. The great strength of the gimmicks is that they get used imaginatively. Every single colour power-up gets a secondary function. LASER! can fly through crystal patterns, but also shoot through enemies and cross gaps. DRILL! can burrow underground, but also propell you through water. CUBE! is not only the P block from Super Mario but also the POW block, able to take out a full screen of enemies by dropping like a rock. SPIKES! let you move along walls and ceilings, but also grant you immunity to regular spikes and let you spin-dash...

 

To prevent a wall of text, you get the point. They're fun gimmicks with multiple uses in levels that are well designed to take advantage of them. My main beef is that you have to wait so long to unlock them all, but they're so much that I always end up going back to earlier levels to make the most of the power-ups.

Edited by Emmett L. Brown

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I don't really like the werehog. I like the wisps even less though their gameplay additions are mostly fine (except stupidity that was spindash pink wisp-only and ring-dash hover-obly abilitites).

I'll go with Unleashed this time.

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From a gameplay perspective, the Wisps, while not always well-executed, were an interesting idea that I had some fun with. And that's a heck of a lot more than I can say about the Werehog.

 

Sonic Colors wins this round for me very easily.

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I think I might have to go with Colors.

 

I actually liked the beat-em-up aspects of the game, and it only really got old for me at the end of Mazuri Night with all those waves of enemies. I always loved being able to just beat the crap out of everything in games. That being said, while I liked the beat-em-up parts, the platforming was the part I didn't like that much. Mainly because of the camera. For example, the clock tower section in Rooftop Run night. I lost quite a few lives because I couldn't see where I was going. Then there's the balance beam part of Empire City Night, which I never liked for reason i can't remember (I haven;t played the game in ages). And the poles in Chun-Nan night were just so finicky. There was one pole that kept flinging me just short of where I needed to land.

 

The Wisps, Frenzy in 3D notwithstanding, were much less haphazard. I never get tired of using them. They're more like power-ups than anything, and are mostly optional, at the cost of a good rank.

 

...I wish I could say more about the Wisps, but nothing comes to mind. In any case, Colors wins the round for me.

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not to mention I forgot to say the more shit you consume the bigger he gets and the easier he is to handle.

 

Actually the opposite is true.

 

The more he eats the bigger and heavier he gets and the harder he is to control. He becomes considerably slower, consuming the gauge fast for relatively little destruction in comparison to the speed that he can move at. His turning ability is worser than a combine harvester and there's no point really to the jump button because he can hardly jump anymore at that size.

 

It's like controlling a ravenous tank with broken tracks and orientation.

 

I always did find that Frenzy form's sheer uncontrollability was insane even for the nature of the form. He's always veering off to the left or right regardless of control input, can hardly turn at all even when he's at his smallest size and has an extremely poor jump, leaping and falling in a very narrow arc literally like a shark jumping out of water.

 

Anyways, for this round? Unleashed.

 

I've always felt that the fun of the Wisp forms were constrained by automation and 2D. Yeah some of them have secondary abilities but let's look at how many of those abilities are automated;

 

Drill Form - Going through pipes is automated with no input from the player.

Laser Form - Aim and the game does it for you.

Rocket Form - Position Sonic and press a button. Game does it for you.

Hover Form - Position near rings, press a button, game does it for you.

 

AND how many of the Wisps are usable only in 2D

 

Blue, Pink, Orange, Yellow.

 

Do the DS-exclusive Wisps count considering all of it is 2D? Add Red and Violet onto that.

 

That's over half of the available forms in the Wii version. Alongside the other 3D availiable Wisps being used far more in 2D than 3D, it starkly reveals just how 2D-reliant Colours is and how it doesn't use it's gimmick in a particularly varied or interesting way. Why only two Wisps maximum for acts? Why can't the level design adapt to the form's better?

 

I suppose what also makes the Wisp's so uninteresting in comparison to narrative compared to Werehog form is how the mechanisms of transformation is never elaborated upon and their personalities are never utilized or revealed except in supplementary material and the DS version. Sonic can change form with Hyper Go-on? Why? How? It's only ever revealed by a SEGA rep that Hyper Go-On changes Sonic's molecular structure in incredibly bizarre ways and having to play a non-canon version of the game to get a better gist of Wisp personality for only 5 of them does not excuse this missing from the Wii version's narrative.

 

Whatsmore, the game's scoring system demands that you use the forms for as long as possible regardless of having done what needs to be done with them. For instance, staying underground as Drill form to rack up score, staying in Spike form without charging the 'spin dash' to make the gauge deplete faster so score racks up. This is a boring way to score and yet many missions truly do require it for an S rank.

 

To praise the Wisp forms though, I did love the occasional glimpses of emergent gameplay, utilizing the basicness of the forms in relation to sometimes clever stage design and making me think outside the box.

 

Comparatively, the Werehog form involves a great amount of actual input from the player, be it fighting the enemies, using his abilities and Badnik's and even objects in clever environment-relevant or enemy-relevant ways i.e Using the flamethrower robots to set enemies alight, melt ice and pillars of ice and torches, throwing Little Rex's at switches to activate them, throwing water barrels at the wizard-like Fire and Shock Master's to put them out/Fry them, hanging onto Dark Bat's the navigate whilst trying to avoid their attacks because they don't take kindly to Sonic grabbing onto them...I could go on.

 

What I also appreciated about Werehog form was that I have a hand in expanding on the form's abilities be it through defeating the enemies or feeding him. When I was levelling up Werehog, I really enjoyed getting new moves and testing them to see what it could do and how it could be included in a combo in a specific context. His moves have interesting properties. Some of them knock enemies flying to keep them away from you. Some of them stun them temporarily so you can get a free hit in. Some of them knock them down so you have a chance to pick them up and do as you please with them whilst they struggle hilariously in vain to break free. Did I mention how once you get certain enemies down to low health you can perform a QTE on them to take them out if it's successful? The game doesn't even force you to do this, player incompetence causing them to interrupt and attack you and them to get their health back. What is additionally cool about the QTE ability is just how effective it is on those extremely annoying Killer Bee enemies; One button press, instant KO.

 

About the above, it makes the Werehog look so damn fun and stylish. I don't care what anyone says, Werehog pulling forward a Big Mother's body so he can slam his spiked soles into her head to bound off of her then slamming into her to make her recoil enough so he can leap into her widely-revealed stomach and beat her up from the inside is frikkin' AWESOME. So is tormenting a Dark Titan to distract it enough to wrap his elasticated arms around it's waist and slam it into the ground a hilarious and satisfying display. And picking up an enemy and using the B button to slam them into the ground repeatedly with bone-shattering force never ever gets old or any less amusing.

 

What makes the Werehog form additionally very interesting is how Sonic's body has utilized Dark Gaia's distinctive properties and how even the enemies exhibit the same properties. If you care to watch the enemies, they all have a stretchy elastic quality to the way they attack. Those weak little Dark Fright's use the rubbery quality to their bodies to contract themselves in order to fling themselves at Sonic. Nightmares and Deep Nightmares have stretchy arms and on the odd occasion they will even mimic Sonic's Were-Tornado move (This weakens them though because the side effect of mimicking Sonic's Were-Tornado makes them small temporarily and prone to be picked-up). Big Mother's have considerable reach with their dexterous stretchy arms and will whirl them around themselves in an attempt to slap Sonic and send him flying. Pieces of Dark Gaia have this property and Sonic, harboring a large piece of the monster, is no different. It's EXACTLY in-line with the way the Wisp's Hyper Go-On power changes Sonic's body and is in-line with the now established fact that Sonic has a very strange body, capable of 'adapting' to the energy he's absorbed to change form. So proclamations that Werehog is 'stupid' because of the way he transforms are null and void when comparing him to the Wisps because they're "equally guilty"

 

But what cinches it for Werehog form above Colours' forms? It has the bonus of showing just how creative Sonic himself can be with his body in an alternate form. In Colours, you don't get this impression because of the underutilization of form's properties in gameplay and total lack of form-usage in narrative. In Unleashed, Sonic utilizes his stretchy body in incredibly original and effective ways such as increasing his attack range in various ways and to stun the enemies or make them even more prone to his attacks (Were-Tornado, Comet Punch, Wild Werewhip are just the tip of the iceberg). He uses his elastic arms to navigate with considerable reach. He even uses his hefty 60kg weight to body slam opponents.

 

Can't forget the way he completely decimates the Egg Dragoon with his bare hands, again utilizing his body's stretchiness to assist him in doing so as well as his brute strength. What does Colours have? The glorified homing attack called Final Colour Blaster?...Oh.

Edited by Vertekins

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Eh...

 

The Werehog was better executed, the Wisps were less stupid of an idea (sorta). The World Adventure gimmick is a better idea, but the amusement park gimmick was better executed (sorta). It's extremely close but Colors wins because... I like that game.

 

:]

Edited by Jazz

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Round 8: Gimmicks:

 

Gimmicks: Sonic Unleashed's Werehog or Sonic Colors' Wisps? I'm going to let Sonic answer this question for me:

 

sonic-colours-cutscene.png

 

Me too. tongue.png And by "aliens" we mean Wisps, of course:

JrqRZnv.jpg?1

 

Now I am going to elaborate as to why the Wisps are the winners.

 

Yes, the Wisps. As a whole, the Wisps proved to be an assortment of power-ups that would give Sonic an ability for a limited amount of time, and then we go back to playing the game as Sonic in his original form. Yet, while it happened, it was fun. Take for example (as I am going to mention some, not all):

 

okmzIVH.jpg?1

Shooting as a lazer in Tropical Resort

 

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Sonic drilling through cake in Sweet Mountain

 

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Spikes in Starlight Carnival. It was fun to Spin Dash too!

 

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Shooting up as a Rocket in Planet Wisp. I had fun sky-diving too after the Wisp power ran out.

 

All of the Wisps were fun to play with, some more than others. I really feel that they enhanced the gameplay overall as opposed to inhibiting it.

 

The Wisps provided quick, yet fun quirks in gameplay, which were enhanced by the music each of the Wisp forms gave and also the announcer calling out the name of the Wisp power when Sonic transformed. I also like how the Wisps created replay value after unlocking the Wisp forms and you can go back to previous levels with the new Wisp forms that you weren't able to use before. Not to mention the Wisps are a gimmick that are cute and colorful.

 

As for the Werehog, while I understand how and why he was implemented in the game concept-wise, it just wasn't fun for me with the gameplay. While I appreciate the gameplay of the Werehog slowing things down and prolonging Sonic Unleashed, the execution just seemed to drag on, being very time-consuming.  Although extremely repetitive, the Jazz tune didn't bother me, to be honest, as I love Jazz music. The whole "beat-em-up" gameplay isn't my cup of tea when it comes to gaming, especially in a Sonic game. I just didn't like it and you won't see me ever replaying these night levels with the Werehog ever again aside from the initial go-around, which isn't optional.

 

So in this round the gimmick of the Wisps are quick, colorful and fun and not to least bit tedious overall...this combination makes this an easy victory for Sonic Colors. smile.png

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Wisps.

 

Giving Sonic some new powers to enhance his move set and bring in a few new design possibilities is a far better idea than turning Sonic into Kratos in a fur suit. The Werehog wasn't terrible all things considered, but it just never had to be there, and it's really not that good. The design of the levels is okay, but just okay and the whole thing has a tendency to be unforgiving and obnoxious. The Wisps actually enhanced normal gameplay and made for some fun shit like the rocket and hover and all dat.

 

So the Colors feel right for this one.

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I would probably say unleashed cause while the wisps were a fun little thing to have on colors, the limited amount of two per stage and the lack of 3d usage for most of them kind of mars it and even though they did make great ways to use shortcuts there are really only a few that I actually even take due to how out of the way some of them are.

 

I think I will go on to say that I actually really liked the platforming for werehog along with the fighting and have only had one instance where I didn't (those stupid poles and eggmanland don't work) and I overall like how werehog gets a fair share of good levels and the fact that he even gets some DLC ones to make it better. My only problem with him is that his levels are too long and the camera for his pole balancing segments screws you up worse than the actual pole.

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Waaay prefer Unleashed.

 

The Werehog was a terrible idea done well (all things considered).  It had depth if you enjoyed the gameplay enough to embrace it.  The Wisps were a good idea done boring.  Push button to beat puzzle, basically.

 

 

To me, the Wisps are exactly the same as if, in Unleashed, they made it so whenever you encounter a pole swinging area, you have to find a Werehog capsule and transform into Werehog form to get across it, then you turn back to regular Sonic.

 

That's exactly what wisps are.

 

 

I'd much rather have my wildly different platforming gameplay developed into satisfying levels (though they were overly long when you're not levelled up to max and don't know what to do already), than have them just sprinkled among the regular Sonic gameplay, interrupting it all the time.

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Wisps! They were fun to use and didn't get in the way of Sonic's main gameplay element, which is running through stages and platforming. Maybe they could've been used a bit more, but I wouldn't like it much if they were overused.

 

...Like the Werehog. Now I'm not talking about the 360/PS3 version, that was fine. But the Wii version! It's SO unfair! Sonic has only one speed stage per area and there's like, three Werehog stages per area. That's not fair!

And whilst Werehog's platforming is quite fun I really, really don't like the beat em up parts. Maybe that's because beat em up is not my cuppa tea. Maybe it's also because of that fucking music that keeps playing EVERY. SINGLE. TIME you are in a battle with enemies! Uuuuugh...

 

I think Werehog would've been infinitely better, if it didn't have those areas where you have to defeat loads of enemies before continuing. If it was just a platformer with those button mashing elements, definitely. I'm sorry, it's Sonic Colours for me.

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