Sonic Unleashed vs. Sonic Colors Extra Round - Final Thoughts

[JezMM]

Colors didn't have Werehog, so it kinda wins by default.

 

The way I see it, it did have Werehog, or that is to say, something decidedly "non-Sonic", but for 10 seconds at a time and about 5-10 times per level.

Edited April 14, 2013 by JezMM

[Kuzu]

The way I see it, it did have Werehog, or that is to say, something decidedly "non-Sonic", but for 10 seconds at a time and about 5-10 times per level.

 

 

That sounds a lot better than something "non-Sonic" for almost 7-15 minutes at a time, and completely forced on you.

[Emmett L. Brown]

The way I see it, it did have Werehog, or that is to say, something decidedly "non-Sonic", but for 10 seconds at a time and about 5-10 times per level.

I strongly disagree, and the reason why is that half the Wisp power-ups have a "Dash" button, and the other half encourage you to maintain speed. Drill/Swim faster, spin-dash as Spikes, Light-Speed Dash as Hover, Skydive after using Rocket. Stay fast as Cubes to take advantage of the timed blocks. Keep up your momentum as Frenzy to grow as large as possible.

 

The wisps complement fast-paced platforming, wheras the Werehog defies it.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

That sounds a lot better than something "non-Sonic" for almost 7-15 minutes at a time, and completely forced on you.

I could argue that the Wisps became progressively "forced" on you during the later levels. Also, at least the Werehog was SEPARATE from the Sonic stages, so it would be slightly easier to get used to it over constantly having to deal with a new power every few seconds of the level with their own different controls, some of which move even SLOWER than the Werehog I might add.

Edited April 14, 2013 by 743-E.D. Missile

[Emmett L. Brown]

I could argue that the Wisps became progressively "forced" on you during the later levels.

If you've unlocked Super Sonic you'll get a demonstration of exactly how often a level requires you to use a Wisp, since the Super Sonic version ads platforms or springs to bypass that part.

 

It's a fraction of the game. You're encouraged to use Wisps, but more often than not you can get to the goal just fine without them.

 

 

Also, at least the Werehog was SEPARATE from the Sonic stages, so it would be slightly easier to get used to it over constantly having to deal with a new power every few seconds of the level with their own different controls, some of which move even SLOWER than the Werehog I might add.

I defy that argument by the fact that every god damn Werehog stage easily took twice as long to complete as a Sonic stage - especially since the game forced you to sleuth for medals to unlock the later levels.

 

Also, there is no Wisp that's slower than rail balancing, pushing blocks, or carrying key stones. And the amount of times you're forced to stop until you've beaten all enemies in Colours is something you can count on one hand, whereas the Werehog requires it a dozen times per level.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Emmett L. Brown

[JezMM]

Yeah but you're forced to take the most boring/straightforward route to get to the goal without Wisps - which Super Sonic also illustrates of course (I always thought Colours was a terrible time to bring back Super Sonic, he was boring as hell and broke the game in levels way above the classics).

 

In that sense, Wisps don't compliment traditional Sonic platforming - they replace it.  Instead of going different routes by doing different stuff as Sonic, I take different routes by collecting a capsule and completing a little unorothodox 5 second maneouver.  I dunno.  If I want to play without Wisps, I don't get to do very much instead.  (Of course I'm not suggesting it should have been possible to do everything without Wisps as well as with, I'm just saying... yeah it's kind of all or nothing, depending on whether you enjoy how the Wisps were used).

[Emmett L. Brown]

Yeah but you're forced to take the most boring/straightforward route to get to the goal without Wisps - which Super Sonic also illustrates of course (I always thought Colours was a terrible time to bring back Super Sonic, he was boring as hell and broke the game in levels way above the classics).

 

In that sense, Wisps don't compliment traditional Sonic platforming - they replace it.  Instead of going different routes by doing different stuff as Sonic, I take different routes by collecting a capsule and completing a little unorothodox 5 second maneouver.  I dunno.  If I want to play without Wisps, I don't get to do very much instead.  (Of course I'm not suggesting it should have been possible to do everything without Wisps as well as with, I'm just saying... yeah it's kind of all or nothing, depending on whether you enjoy how the Wisps were used).

The Wisps give you, among others, Spin-Dash, Light Speed Dash, a drill ball, a powered-up stomp, and the ability to roll on walls or ceilings.

 

Those sound an awful lot like abilities Sonic the Hedgehog would have.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Emmett L. Brown

[JezMM]

Those sound an awful lot like abilities Sonic the Hedgehog would have.

 

So why doesn't he?  =C

[Emmett L. Brown]

So why doesn't he?  =C

Touche.

 

So you admit that the Wisp power-ups are definitely Sonic-like.

[JezMM]

Touche.

 

So you admit that the Wisp power-ups are definitely Sonic-like.

 

N-no!  Baka!!!  ._.;;

[Kuzu]

Wisp win, flawless victory.

 

 

Alright, I've had time to think. Wisp, without a doubt. They're power-ups that compliment the Sonic gameplay by amplifying Sonic's traditional abilities, I know people will cry "Well he should be able to do that in the first place" but then that would kind of defeat the purpose of power ups to begin with. They aren't required, and it's perfectly possible to beat the game without them.

 

The Werehog? While good in concept, is just horribly unfitting for a Sonic game, at least one as fast paced as the Modern gameplay. Here you have break neck speeds, and then slow, sluggish platforming. Its jarring as fuck. If the Werehog was its own video game series then it'd be fine, but no. It slows the game down immensely and I've found no reason replay his stages outside of hunting medals.

[JezMM]

I guess my final opinion on the matter is:

 

 

Werehog:

 

Bad idea and unfitting for Sonic, but if you embrace it, it was put together well and is deep.  It is kept seperate from the standard Sonic gameplay.  If you don't enjoy it, you need never touch the levels again after finishing the story.

 

 

Wisps:

 

Good idea and fitting for Sonic, but had little to no depth and were inserted directly into the standard Sonic gameplay.  If you don't enjoy them, too bad Wispluigi Time.

[Nepenthe]

Someone needs to do a Wisp-less run of Sonic Colors to prove to me that every single one of them is 100% optional throughout the entire game. At the very least, I would think that Drill and Rocket are the minimum that are needed to actually progress through their respective levels.

[Soniman]

Someone needs to do a Wisp-less run of Sonic Colors to prove to me that every single one of them is 100% optional throughout the entire game. At the very least, I would think that Drill and Rocket are the minimum that are needed to actually progress through their respective levels.

 

Never said they were 100% optional, hell a Wisps-less run would be a waste for time because I know for a fact there are smaller gimmick levels that require you to use a wisp, im talking mostly in the actual main levels.

[Nepenthe]

Ragna just said they are completely optional for the entire game, and it's a pitch that's been floating around throughout this game's narrative ever since we got information about it. I'm just asking for proof of it so we can nip this particular tangent in the bud and potentially stop saying something that isn't true. xP

[Kuzu]

Alright if I had to make an estimation, I'd say the Wisp are 95% optional. It's been a while since I've played Colors. Generally when the power is first introduced, you need it for demonstration purposes.

 

 

There happy XP

Good idea and fitting for Sonic, but had little to no depth and were inserted directly into the standard Sonic gameplay.  If you don't enjoy them, too bad Wispluigi Time.

 

 

It's almost like they were meant to add to the standard Sonic gameplay instead of compromise it.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Not!Dante

[Nepenthe]

Also, those three smaller gimmick acts being brushed aside are necessary to beat the game, are they not? I don't remember being able to breeze through playing what would effectively be half of the stages and expecting to make it to the final boss. In fact, I remember being stopped at several points due to jumping around the available planets because I hadn't completed one or two of them necessary to unlock the next few. So overall, that estimation seems extremely fucking generous, but I'm being a little pedantic myself. The point is, the Wisps aren't optional. Stop saying they are. ):<

[Vertekins]

Wisps 100% Optional? BULL. They're not even anywhere near 95% optional.

 

One mission of Asteroid Coaster necessary for completion of the game's story demands the use of both Cube and Spike. Cube is absolutely required as the Goal Ring is blocked-off by the blue blocks.

 

One mission of Sweet Mountain has you arrive at a wall of cake completely unpassable without Drill. Again, a story-relevant act. Well, all of them are.

 

One act of Aquarium Park demands Hover.

 

One act of Starlight Carnival requires Frenzy form to eat blocks barricading the Goal Ring. Another act absolutely requires Hover to ring dash all the way around a pillar supporting the structure with the Goal Ring.

 

There are many more examples and the way in which the game is designed around the Wisps both in level design and score requirements necessitates them. Wisp form's are also required to gain a lot of the Red Rings.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Vertekins

[Old dead account]

I never understood why Super Sonic breaking levels was a bad thing, especially in Colors where he is only unlocked at the end of the game AND you can disable him...

[Kuzu]

Wisps 100% Optional? BULL. They're not even anywhere near 95% optional.

 

One mission of Asteroid Coaster necessary for completion of the game's story demands the use of both Cube and Spike. Cube is absolutely required as the Goal Ring is blocked-off by the blue blocks.

 

One mission of Sweet Mountain has you arrive at a wall of cake completely unpassable without Drill. Again, a story-relevant act. Well, all of them are.

 

One act of Aquarium Park demands Hover.

 

One act of Starlight Carnival requires Frenzy form to eat blocks barricading the Goal Ring. Another act absolutely requires Hover to ring dash all the way around a pillar supporting the structure with the Goal Ring.

 

There are many more examples and the way in which the game is designed around the Wisps both in level design and score requirements necessitates them. Wisp form's are also required to gain a lot of the Red Rings.

 

 

Also, those three smaller gimmick acts being brushed aside are necessary to beat the game, are they not? I don't remember being able to breeze through playing what would effectively be half of the stages and expecting to make it to the final boss. In fact, I remember being stopped at several points due to jumping around the available planets because I hadn't completed one or two of them necessary to unlock the next few. So overall, that estimation seems extremely fucking generous, but I'm being a little pedantic myself. The point is, the Wisps aren't optional. Stop saying they are. ):<

 

Yes, Four levels that are mandatory out of how many levels in total?

Edited April 14, 2013 by Not!Dante

[Nepenthe]

I never understood why Super Sonic breaking levels was a bad thing, especially in Colors where he is only unlocked at the end of the game AND you can disable him...

 

It's not a bad thing, per se; it's just a boring unlockable, the most boring of end-game unlockables you can possibly implement, since as everything in the previous game has been beaten, Super Sonic has little utility by that point. If there's one thing SA2 got right, it's giving you a level to play as an in-game reward instead of Broken Mode. xP

[Emmett L. Brown]

I enjoy using the Wisps. I think they're a lot of fun, and the levels really are designed around them. The point of them being mostly optional is that if you fail to use a Wisp effectively, then you're not stuck - you can keep going. In the very rare few locations, like the ones Vertekins listed, the Wisp container will respawn until you get past the obstacle its meant for.

 

I still say 95% of the game doesn't demand you use a Wisp, but I don't pretend those last 5% don't exist. Mostly they're tutorial parts. Since the Wisp powers are finite, I'm happy the game let's you fail and try again for practice's sake. It's especially helpful with the Laser, which can be finnicky at first.

[Nix]

It's not a bad thing, per se; it's just a boring unlockable, the most boring of end-game unlockables you can possibly implement, since as everything in the previous game has been beaten, Super Sonic has little utility by that point. If there's one thing SA2 got right, it's giving you a level to play as an in-game reward instead of Broken Mode. xP

 

Well, it would've been cool if Green Hill lasted more than 10 seconds.

 

That said, Super Sonic was pretty shitty because it blocked you from using the Wisps entirely.  I wanted Super Wisp Powers.

[JezMM]

Ragna just said they are completely optional for the entire game, and it's a pitch that's been floating around throughout this game's narrative ever since we got information about it. I'm just asking for proof of it so we can nip this particular tangent in the bud and potentially stop saying something that isn't true. xP

 

Nope, impossible to beat the game without Wisps.  You have to use Hover to finish Starlight Carnival 5 and 6, for example.

 

EDIT: Ack speeded majorly.  Must have looked away when it notified me of added replies.

It's almost like they were meant to add to the standard Sonic gameplay instead of compromise it.

They were meant to, but they just didn't for me. Neither did Werehog of course, but at least it existed in its own little bubble, like 2 games in 1 almost. I didn't get the Unleashed Day gameplay sequel I hoped for until Generations. Edited April 14, 2013 by JezMM

[Vertekins]

 

 

Yes, Four levels that are mandatory out of how many levels in total?

 

I only brought up a few examples. There are many more than that that rely on Wisp forms to complete the game.

 

The game is tightly designed around the forms. A large amount of Red Rings require forms. S ranks require score racked-up from form usage and the level design as a whole makes form-usage the meat of the playability. So saying that being able to skip over them the whole way through the game is a factually unsound argument.