Sonic Unleashed vs. Sonic Colors Extra Round - Final Thoughts

[Kuzu]

I only brought up a few examples. There are many more than that that rely on Wisp forms to complete the game.

 

The game is tightly designed around the forms. A large amount of Red Rings require forms. S ranks require score racked-up from form usage and the level design as a whole makes form-usage the meat of the playability. So saying that being able to skip over them the whole way through the game is a factually unsound argument.

 

Red Rings and S-ranks are not required to beat the game, Sun & Moon Medals however are. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Edited April 14, 2013 by Not!Dante

[Nepenthe]

Yes, Four levels that are mandatory out of how many levels in total?

 

Verte is the one who had four examples (note: she said there are many more, so saying four are the only exceptions is misconstruing her argument); I actually asserted that all of the gimmick acts- effectively around half of the stage count- had a Wisp in them that was mandatory. I would wager the main acts that use Rocket and Frenzy make them mandatory as well (and JezMM just added another two examples). That's more than four, and if people who have played the game in recent times continue to chime in, I imagine this counter is only going to keep rising. Overall, this tangent goes back to my statement that we need a Wisp-less run, and in general proves my initial point that the Wisps aren't optional.

[Emmett L. Brown]

I still don't see why anyone would want to skip the Wisps. If you dont' think they're any fun, then probably best to skip Sonic Colors entirely. They've got more of a presence than the Werehog has in Unleashed. I hate the Werehog, but enjoy the rest of the game enough to feel it's worth a play. If I hated the Wisps, I probably wouldn't go for Colours.

 

 

EDIT: Damn British <-> American spelling keeps messing me up.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Emmett L. Brown

[JezMM]

I still don't see why anyone would want to skip the Wisps. If you dont' think they're any fun, then probably best to skip Sonic Colors entirely. They've got more of a presence than the Werehog has in Unleashed. I hate the Werehog, but enjoy the rest of the game enough to feel it's worth a play. If I hated the Wisps, I probably wouldn't go for Colours.

 

 

EDIT: Damn British <-> American spelling keeps messing me up.

This is what I'm sayin'. I like Colours but I don't care for the Wisps all that much. Ergo, Unleashed is the better gimmick and wins this round of the topic!

For me.

My basic logic is, even if you hate both gimmicks, Unleashed can provide fun by just playing Day levels after the game is beaten. Colours however, has the gimmick ingrained into gameplay, therefore even after beating it, unless you particularly enjoy holding up/right on the lowest routes in the game and not much else, you can't really avoid the Wisps to enjoy the game your own way.

[Nepenthe]

I don't hate the Wisps aside from Frenzy. They're too mundane, simple, and lacking context to really feel one way or the other about to me. Granted, I do think they they're partially responsible for completely neutering modern gameplay into something that missed the point of the style entirely in Colors; so even if I were to avoid them in this false bid that they're "optional," just running through the levels isn't all that fun or exciting anyway.

[Kuzu]

This is what I'm sayin'. I like Colours but I don't care for the Wisps all that much. Ergo, Unleashed is the better gimmick and wins this round of the topic!

For me.

My basic logic is, even if you hate both gimmicks, Unleashed can provide fun by just playing Day levels after the game is beaten. Colours however, has the gimmick ingrained into gameplay, therefore even after beating it, unless you particularly enjoy holding up/right on the lowest routes in the game and not much else, you can't really avoid the Wisps to enjoy the game your own way.

 

 

Why would you play Colors if not for the Wisp?

[JezMM]

It's suddenly occured to me that we really shouldn't even be arguing about Werehog vs Wisps coz you cannot justify one being better than the other, since they are two ENTIRELY different gameplay styles, and both are entirely differently applied to their games.  There is literally no way to win the arguement, since everything is 100% opinion/preference based.  Gargle.

 

 

Why would you play Colors if not for the Wisp?

 

I enjoy the aesthetics and general feel of the game, and the tiny pockets of (actually challenging/interesting) Unleashed-style gameplay teasingly hidden here and there.  Its enough for it to be fun for me.

 

To re-clarify:  I like the Wisps.  I just like Unleashed, and the Werehog, much much more.

[Chaos Warp]

Why would you play Colors if not for the Wisp?

Because it's a great Sonic game?

[Jolt_TH]

I'm currently redoing colours after I had to replace my wii. Ill finish the main story and then try a wisp less run for you all

[Emmett L. Brown]

If I hated collectin weapons from bosses I wouldn't play Mega Man.

If I hated having to progressively track down armour upgrades and abilities I wouldn't play Metroid.

If I hated having too much freedom to explore and too many quests to cover I wouldn't play Skyrim.

If I hated the Wisps, I would play a different Sonic game than Sonic Colors.

 

None of the games I mentioned are bad games, but if you're not in the target audience, you're right to pass them up. I honestly don't know why Colors has to offer beyond the Wisps, gameplay-wise, so I'll accept that argument against it if you don't like the Wisps.

 

No, scratch that! Colors has no quicktime events. That's an overwhelmingly positive step.

[Kuzu]

Because it's a great Sonic game?

 

Because of the Wisp, without them what is Colors.

[Nepenthe]

Why would you play Colors if not for the Wisp?

 

Well, if the Wisps were totally optional like you said, or heck even optional in a significant portion of the game, that would theoretically signify there's more to the game than the Wisps that would actually make it worth playing, would it not? Indeed, why would I just want to run through milquetoast levels when the style of gameplay that was boss in Unleashed was pretty much hamfisted in? The Wisps actually facilitate not being totally bored, which I'm not sure is a particularly good thing. Galaxy may have power-ups like Colors too, but they're so spread thin that the game goes back to relying on good ol' fashioned fun level and game design to support the bulk of the game.

[Kuzu]

Well, if the Wisps were totally optional like you said, or heck even optional in a significant portion of the game, that would theoretically signify there's more to the game than the Wisps that would actually make it worth playing, would it not? Indeed, why would I just want to run through milquetoast levels when the style of gameplay that was boss in Unleashed was pretty much hamfisted in? The Wisps actually facilitate not being totally bored, which I'm not sure is a particularly good thing. Galaxy may have power-ups like Colors too, but they're so spread thin that the game goes back to relying on good ol' fashioned fun level and game design to support the bulk of the game.

 

The point I was making is that, mostly everyone that's bought Colors bought it because it takes the good parts of Unleashed(the day stages) and makes them better by adding something to them(The Wisp). Now whether you agree with this is besides the point, but the fact is, Colors is perfectly functional and playable on the basis of riding off the coattails of Unleashed, with or without the Wisp, they just make them better. Galaxy doesn't use power ups like Colors because its already got a gravity gimmick, and various other level gimmicks as well(Something Colors also has).

It's suddenly occured to me that we really shouldn't even be arguing about Werehog vs Wisps coz you cannot justify one being better than the other, since they are two ENTIRELY different gameplay styles, and both are entirely differently applied to their games.  There is literally no way to win the arguement, since everything is 100% opinion/preference based.  Gargle.

 

This entire topic has been about nothing but opinions and popularity, this isn't any different.

[Jolt_TH]

I think the problem with colours is that the wisps don't last long once they have been activated and there are also quite a few in a small area, that's why mario galaxy works better, most of the powerups aren't timed and are more than one use, also as states above they are generally spread thin so you get a chance to use them to the full extent, usually when there are more is because there is a powerup that is needed (or more likely for secrets).

I think if colours worked like that the wisps wouldn't be so bad (without transforming until you use the power)

[Nepenthe]

The point I was making is that, mostly everyone that's bought Colors bought it because it takes the good parts of Unleashed(the day stages) and makes them better by adding something to them(The Wisp). Now whether you agree with this is besides the point, but the fact is, Colors is perfectly functional and playable on the basis of riding off the coattails of Unleashed, with or without the Wisp, they just make them better. Galaxy doesn't use power ups like Colors because its already got a gravity gimmick, and various other level gimmicks as well(Something Colors also has).

 

This entire topic has been about nothing but opinions and popularity, this isn't any different.

 

With or without the Wisps, the actual gameplay I bought and loved Unleashed for is so nerfed that it loses its appeal as a fast-paced twitchy platformer allowing you to race up, down, and all around various locations and set pieces at breakneck speeds with a near-continuous flow that is satisfying to maintain. Heck, this could've been subverted with an Adventure style set-up to the levels where various parts have different focuses on either platforming or racing. Have some Wisp awesomeness here, some Unleashed awesomeness here; it could've been amazing. Granted, I'm not saying a pure puzzle-platformer is a bad thing; not at all. I'm saying Colors' brand of puzzle-platforming brings nothing interesting to the table. The Wisps aren't noteworthy to use because they're too context-sensitive to the obstacles due to their limited utility and the level design placing them right where they need to be used like a huge, blinking neon sign. And it can't fall back on the quality of its racing gameplay either for reasons blatantly summed up by the question we're asking: "Why the fuck would you play this game without using the Wisps?" So all that's left is a pretty mediocre game that gets by by not doing anything overtly offensive or unique.

[JezMM]

This entire topic has been about nothing but opinions and popularity, this isn't any different.

 

I know, but it feels like we're going round in circles.  We have all stated our reasons for liking one over the other, but the problem is the reasons people prefer the Werehog are the same reasons people prefer the Wisps.  (E.g. I prefer Werehog because it is seperate from Sonic gameplay while Wisps are intermingled.  Others prefer Wisps because they are intermingled while Werehog is seperate).   Nothing can be justified here, but we're arguing like it can in some places.

 

I think the only point that has been argued based on fact rather than personal preference was the whole "are Wisps actually optional" thing.

Edited April 14, 2013 by JezMM

[Emmett L. Brown]

Dammit, my subjective opinion is more objectively factual than your subjective opinion!

 

Sorry.

[JezMM]

Essentially we all should have just stated our opinion and left well alone.  Who was it who was even the first to start arguing against someone else's initial opinion anyway?  I'm gonna go find out and give them a piece of my mind.

 

 

EDIT: ...Never mind who it was

Edited April 14, 2013 by JezMM

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Unpopular thought, but for some reason, now that I look at it more carefully, the Wisps are pretty much Sonic 06's mid-level gameplay transitions, except simpler and MANY TIMES MORE FREQUENT.

[Soniman]

Well this is a discussion as well as a debate topic, so it's not really just stating your opinion and calling it a day (though you can do so if you want).

 

Unpopular thought, but for some reason, now that I look at it more carefully, the Wisps are pretty much Sonic 06's mid-level gameplay transitions, except simpler and MANY TIMES MORE FREQUENT.

 

Except not alienating, sometimes optional, not nearly as long, oh and actually not shit.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Soniman

[Kuzu]

With or without the Wisps, the actual gameplay I bought and loved Unleashed for is so nerfed that it loses its appeal as a fast-paced twitchy platformer allowing you to race up, down, and all around various locations and set pieces at breakneck speeds with a near-continuous flow that is satisfying to maintain. Heck, this could've been subverted with an Adventure style set-up to the levels where various parts have different focuses on either platforming or racing. Have some Wisp awesomeness here, some Unleashed awesomeness here; it could've been amazing. Granted, I'm not saying a pure puzzle-platformer is a bad thing; not at all. I'm saying Colors brand of puzzle-platforming brings nothing interesting to the table. The Wisps aren't noteworthy to use because they're too context-sensitive to the obstacles due to their limited utility and the level design placing them right where they need to be used like a huge, blinking neon sign. And it can't fall back on the quality of its racing gameplay either for reasons blatantly summed up by the question we're asking: "Why the fuck would you play this game without using the Wisps?" So all that's left is a pretty mediocre game that gets by by not doing anything overtly offensive or unique

 

And I felt the gameplay in Unleashed is extremely trial & error and I died less because of a mistake that I made, but because I wasn't fast enough to react to an obstacle in time. Colors does away with this by making the platforming more traditional, and therefore I actually have to think about my next move, and if I die its because of an error in judgment rather than not having the reflexes of a god. The Wisps are context-sensitive yes, but they don't detract from the game and like Verte pointed out, are used to unlock more features within the game and get higher ranks. So at this point, it just goes back to what you liked about the Modern gameplay and what you don't like about it. I didn't like the modern gameplay in Unleashed, so even without the Wisp, Colors is damn good for me.

[Vertekins]

I'm judging the Wisps and the Werehog on the basis of them being gimmicks and how well they were used in the game as a whole.

 

To me, this goes for everything

 

- What relation to the narrative do the gimmicks have? How well are they used in relation to the narrative?

- How fun are the gimmicks to use?

- How well are they utilized in terms of relation to game design? Were they used creatively? Were they utilized to their potential as I see it?

- What is the nature of the forms? Is any elaboration given on their nature?

 

Werehog wins all of the above I don't settle on one point to judge the gimmick as a whole because that is extremely one-sided and one-dimensional reasoning.

[Kuzu]

Ok, I'll bite.

 

 

- What relation to the narrative do the gimmicks have? How well are they used in relation to the narrative?

The console version admittedly doesn't utilize the Wisp very well as narrative devices, but the DS version does give them all distinct character and personalities. No more than Unleashed did with the Werehog anyway(Which is little).

 

- How fun are the gimmicks to use?

Fun is subjective. I had more fun with the Wisp, you had more fun with the Werehog. The Wisp, as I said before, add to the current Sonic formula instead of being completely disconnected from it and makes for a much more consistent and satisfying experience. Especially since the unlockables for the Wisp aren't required for beating the main campaign.

 

 

- How well are they utilized in terms of relation to game design? Were they used creatively? Were they utilized to their potential as I see it?

Like I said, they're consistent with the formula they're playing along with and are able to unlock more features within the game. And they're utilized with as much potential as power-ups can be used.

 

- What is the nature of the forms? Is any elaboration given on their nature?

No, I guess there isn't much elaboration on why Sonic can use them, so I guess I can give this one. They're power-ups, so there doesn't really need to be a reason.

[Tornado]

Not quite sure how determining the quality of the gimmicks over one point is "extremely one-sided and one-dimensional reasoning" when one of the points that you outlined is basically "is it fun" and the answer that a lot of people will respond to that with for the Werehog is "not in the slightest."

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Except not alienating, sometimes optional, not nearly as long, oh and actually not shit.

Doesn't really change the detail that they operate very similarly, and that for all your constant talk about how awful 06 is, here you are exonerating a gameplay gimmick that is in spirit the same thing.