Plot Inconsistencies?

[Kamakai]

Sonic games have never been known for having great plots. It's a known fact. However, some inconsistencies in plot are just ridiculous. For example, In SA1, when the Master Emerald breaks, Angel Island falls out of the sky. Knuckles' story revolves around him trying to fix the Master Emerald to get Angel Island into the sky.

 

 

In SA2, Knuckles, the greatest guardian ever, smashes the Master Emerald to keep it out of the wrong hands. He, once again, has to hunt down the shards, which somehow end up underground, and in space. However, Angel Island is never even mentioned. You could argue that the desert in SA2 isn't the altar, as it looks different in SA1. But if the Master Emerald wasn't at the altar, then how was Angel Island still in the sky?

 

Then there's Hidden Palace. I suppose the only rational explanationn I can come up with is that there are many altars around the island, and that the desert in SA2 is on Angel Island too. Any ideas? And any other examples?

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2013 by Blue Streamer

[Spin Attaxx]

Didn't Rouge steal the Master Emerald from Angel Island? And that's how it ended up in the desert?

[Kamakai]

Wouldn't Angel Island have fallen then? And there is no mention of it in SA2.

[Spin Attaxx]

Yes, it would have likely fallen. But as you said, the island isn't brought up in SA2, so it isn't explicitly said, but seeing how the Emerald isn't on there, it most definetly fell.

[Kamakai]

It just seems odd that Knuckles' story pretty much revolved around the island in SA1, but then it is completely forgotten in SA2.

[Spin Attaxx]

Y'know, the island's been completely forgotten in pretty much EVERY game after SA1.

[Kamakai]

Another inconsistency. *sigh* :/

[-Mark-]

As of late, I think it'd be far easier to try and list what few consistencies actually remain. 

[Kamakai]

 And any other examples?

 I know. What about Blaze?

Edited March 10, 2013 by Blue Streamer

[buba]

 I know. What about Blaze?

 

Her Generations bio says that she is from another dimension, this making the Rush games story canon, yet still she remembers Crisis City from 06 where she was said to come from the future.

[The Conductor]

My Simple Blaze and Nega Theory:
 

 

Blaze is from another world.

At the end of Sonic Rush, Blaze tries to go home but ends up in Silver's time.

At the end of 06, Blaze uses the power of the Chaos Emeralds to seal Iblis within herself and travel to her own dimension.

Fanony stuff happens here that I wont go into because it's purely fanfiction rather than semi-educated guesses.

Rush Adventure happens

 

 

Nega is Eggman's descendant/clone/android duplicate/whatever his native home is Silver's future, he's just really good at jumping around the Multiverse. 

[Straw Hat]

Her Generations bio says that she is from another dimension, this making the Rush games story canon, yet still she remembers Crisis City from 06 where she was said to come from the future.

Dunno...

Guess Crisis City somehow changed. Maybe it's not in Soleanna anymore or something....

[Rexeljet]

Then there's Hidden Palace. I suppose the only rational explanationn I can come up with is that there are many altars around the island, and that the desert in SA2 is on Angel Island too. Any ideas? And any other examples?

 

Master emerald.jpg

 

Master E.jpg

 

Master em.png

 

I always assumed that the desert area in SA2 was part of Sandpoplis (or perhaps Sandopolis is part of the desert area.) It would certainly make sense considering the ghosts that are present in Sandopolis and parts of the desert area.

[Spin Attaxx]

Iizuka said at Sonic Boom 2012 that Blaze is from the Sol Dimension, and to disregard her appearance in Sonic '06.

[Blue Blood]

In SA2, Knuckles, the greatest guardian ever, smashes the Master Emerald to keep it out of the wrong hands. He, once again, has to hunt down the shards, which somehow end up underground, and in space. However, Angel Island is never even mentioned. You could argue that the desert in SA2 isn't the altar, as it looks different in SA1. But if the Master Emerald wasn't at the altar, then how was Angel Island still in the sky?

Angel Island wasn't even mentioned in SA2. We can assume that sometime prior to Knuckles first appearance in the game, Rouge had attempted to steal it and gotten it as far as the "desert area". Angel Island, being irrelevant to the plot, doesn't have to be mentioned. It's a pretty big part to miss out admittedly, but as SA1 shows, Angel Island falling doesn't really mean anything too serious.

Parts of the ME ending up underground is easily explained- it's a game. Locations like Aquatic Mine just make things more interesting, and having the pieces physically buried in the ground is just another thing for the player to do. And look at it this way- if parts of the smashed ME could end up in the city, Egg Carrier and Angel Island itself, it's not much of a stretch to say the pieces could end up anywhere.

Regarding space, that's because Knuckles crashed the spaceship and all the pieces he'd collected flew out around the Ark.

 

Then there's Hidden Palace. I suppose the only rational explanationn I can come up with is that there are many altars around the island, and that the desert in SA2 is on Angel Island too.

The explanation is that Hidden Palace was retconned. The Emerald Altar now takes it place, and Hidden Palace has been written out of the continuity.

[Animatedmusic]

The moon

[Diogenes]

The explanation is that Hidden Palace was retconned. The Emerald Altar now takes it place, and Hidden Palace has been written out of the continuity.

I don't think that's strictly necessary. Hidden Palace could've been created some time after the island first rose, and after Eggman found basically a direct route to it, it wasn't exactly "Hidden" anymore so there wasn't as much reason to use it.

[Sparky]

Iizuka said at Sonic Boom 2012 that Blaze is from the Sol Dimension, and to disregard her appearance in Sonic '06.

They shouldn't have made the whole plot centered around fire and sol stuff, or include the emerald cut Gems of Soleanna.

[Blue Blood]

I don't think that's strictly necessary. Hidden Palace could've been created some time after the island first rose, and after Eggman found basically a direct route to it, it wasn't exactly "Hidden" anymore so there wasn't as much reason to use it.

But that's fanon. Nothing in the games suggests that's the case at all. Hidden Palace was the resting place of the Master Emerald in SK. Come SA1, we see that is instead exists in the Emerald Altar, both in the past and present. It could be the case, but as you have to make up that entire explanation without any real back up.

[Diogenes]

But that's fanon.

And the idea that the Hidden Palace has been retconned out isn't? We don't know why Knuckles abandoned HPZ in favor of the old shrine (if there even is an in-story reason), but considering it's pretty trivial to invent a reason, I don't see why we should favor an explanation that makes retcons.

[Blue Blood]

And the idea that the Hidden Palace has been retconned out isn't? We don't know why Knuckles abandoned HPZ in favor of the old shrine (if there even is an in-story reason), but considering it's pretty trivial to invent a reason, I don't see why we should favor an explanation that makes retcons.

It's not fanon to say something like this was retconned. While not absolute certainty, it's the most logical of all explanations. This is a plot element that was one way originally, and from it's second appearance it was changed with the original version never having been mentioned since. It's not that "we don't know why Knuckles abandoned HPZ", it's that we've simply been given no reason to believe that that even happened. I don't see why we should favour an explanation that has us fabricating a story, especially when this is a series that doesn't exactly bend over backwards for continuity. Edited March 10, 2013 by Blue Blood

[Diogenes]

It's not fanon to say something like this was retconned. While not absolute certainty, it's the most logical of all explanations.

The most logical explanation is that the thing we saw, in a game that we know is "true", did not in fact exist? Simply because a different thing is being used now? Despite that it is trivial to come up with an explanation for why the new thing would be used that still allows the old thing to have existed?

That sounds more like the thing you'd use as a desperate last resort than "the most logical explanation". What, even, do we say happened towards the end of S3&K if we declare that HPZ never existed? Where did Eggman steal the Master Emerald from? Where did Sonic go after Lava Reef, and how did he get to Sky Sanctuary?

I don't see why we should favour an explanation that has us fabricating a story, especially when this is a series that doesn't exactly bend over backwards for continuity.

We don't need to invent a story to cling to, but the existence of plausible stories means a retcon with no evidence isn't very attractive. I don't really think we should be taking a hacksaw to a canon game simply because we weren't given an explicit answer to a fairly trivial question. If anything we should default to "we don't know", and assume that what we've seen is true unless given further information.

[Blue Blood]

If anything we should default to "we don't know", and assume that what we've seen is true unless given further information.

In which case we should avoid explanations of any kind. I'd happily just chalk it up to how each game portrays a set of events.

SA1 Past- The ME sits at the altar

S3K- This time the ME is in HPZ

SA1/Advance 3- The ME sits at the altar.

It's not necessarily changed storywise. That's just how the games have portrayed it in a way that best benefits the rest of the plot in a specific game, or what the developers wanted really. There's even been one occasion where we've had the Master Emerald, Angel Island, Knuckles and absolutely no reference made to where it's kept.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Blue Blood

[Diogenes]

I'm not even sure what you're suggesting now.

[Tani Coyote]

I don't consider the Angel Island thing an inconsistency so much as they decided it wasn't important to touch on Angel Island itself. The fact Knuckles wants the Emerald back and will do whatever's necessary to keep it out of others' hands, I feel, illustrates just how important it is to his duty. Though as was said, he has kind of been slacking on the whole protecting the Island gig... or at least, they don't explicitly mention it anymore.

As for Crisis City - given that Silver's future is always a wreck, it's logical that even with the end of Iblis it still went south. Predestination paradox, yes, but easily assumed.

I will say what I always say: you need to intersperse exposition with scene. If you've ever read a Wall O' Text you know the reason huge amounts of exposition are avoided.

Biggest inconsistency remains the Moon. It's just a blatant plot hole it's half destroyed in one game and is back together in all others. I think it'd be too much of a stretch to assume it was somehow fixed, so that probably would require exposition. Problem is it's such a minor plot point at this juncture there'd be no real gain from doing so.